🍫Syag Lchochma

I get very bent out of shape when people start taking very complex issues from very complex shiurim out of context, simplify it, and post it in a short paragraph looking for enlightenment. And based on your next couple of posts and some background info on Rabbi Mizrachi, I really have to doubt your sincerity in even starting this thread.

The shiur is on a topic that is obviously not easily understood and not for everyone. Your portrayal of a neshamas past nisyonos to be a reason to treat a person differently in this life is even more astounding. Even ridiculous. How do people make such a leap?! It is so far from the point he made.

When someone abuses money in one life and he comes back poor in the next life you can call it a punishment, but I learned it as an opportunity to change, make a tikkun, complete your tafkid with an easier “set up”. Is the second person “suffering” because of the previous life? Sure. But why is that punitive in a childish or vengeful manner? Why isn’t it an opportunity to complete your life without the nisyonos that you werent able to pass? Would you prefer going back to this world with the exact same nisyonos and abilities knowing you may fail again? It is a chessed. And if that “doesn’t work” for you, perhaps bringing it to a mechaneches or mashgiach would be more appropriate. Talking about these types of things in this type of forum sounds about as reasonable as paskining thru email.

I call troll.

yekke2 – your post above is beautiful but false. You are so wrong about so much of what you are writing. You speak an awesome theory, you are 100% right about what SHOULD be, but unfortunately you are wrong about real life, how things are dealt with and what actually happens. I’ve noticed the naivete in many posts on this thread and others in regard to abuse and abusers and I didn’t want to bring it up because I do not approve of the global bashing that usually follows. Please know tho that the more you insist, the more painful it is to people who lived thru it and met up with nothing resembling what you write.

lesschumros – I have refrained from following along with this thread because so may people who are so lucky to be ignorant of the subject are not hesitating to post anyway. But I can’t resist answering your last post.

When they find out they take three immediate steps:

1)pretend they didn’t hear what you said

2)pretend the reporter has no chezkas kashrus

3)use any means they can to make sure you drop the subject

presto – case closed!

That is only true in theory. And in wishes. The sad reality is much closer to what that person said about the drawer. Not wanting it to be true just isn’t enough.

my comment was not to Rav Shteinman shlit”a at all, it was to the ones who edit, repeat, edit and interpret them as they travel the globe (which I know well happens from friends who met ewith him)

well dont expect any retractions, everyone knows i must be referring to someone else, lol. odd how some can sing the virtues of achdus in klal yisroel and kumbaya in one post and put someone down in the next post without notice. Of course my mentioning that it is improper and hurtful will be noticed, just watch. but its good to know i am not alone.

you just posted

the fact that there isn’t enough achdus and ahavas Yisrael with Lakewood as an example.

as one sentence when in fact the first 10 words were DaMoshe’s and the last 5 words were added by Avram in his explaination. And honestly, when you come in and split hairs on almost every interaction I have with other posters, that is pretty much the reason I am no longer here.

Thanks for answering. I wasn’t so concerned with your spin-off I did not find you in ANY way to be using it against him, I just find you to be a good candidate for a straight up response. I have been noticing a general tendency of people to reframe the posts in cheeky ways, and then “give it to” the poster based on the reframe. Then the subsequent posters will jump on the reframe as if that is what was SAID. Perhaps it was meant or implied, but maybe not. And either way, it isn’t really straightforward to misquote. In some threads it is worse because the person’s comment gets changed into a generalization and then responded to. It may not be a new ‘tactic’ but I am noticing it more recently and finding it frustrating to read.

Thank you so much for your insight, and please don’t take it personally.

Avram – I hope you don’t mind if I ask you a question. Your post brings to mind something I see over and over again and I would be interested in your perspective.

In your post above, you were making a point that if the teaneck question was posed as the BMG question was posed, you would have given the same answer. Interestingly, you wrote this come see Teaneck as an example of a lack of ahavas Yisroel! as your parallel to DaMoshe’s statement. Do you believe that that is what he wrote? I ask because I keep seeing posts that make quotes with those types of embellishments and the response is so often to the embellishment. I feel like people are getting responded to based on the re-make of their post instead of their actual post. I had wanted to ask it of the oilam but I was afraid of backlash so I’m just asking you what you think.

it’s funny you see it that way because I did not see anyone having a first or only reaction about a smoke detector. I did, however, notice on this thread and several others a more-than-usual curtness and rudeness toward a specific poster and almost anything he has to say. It has always been there but it has been more blatant lately, involved more people lately, and it’s really unfortunate.

BOWLING!!!! One lane for the 16, 14 and 11 to bowl a couple/few games while the 8 and 4 bowl.

Avram –

I am not so talented with all the markups so bear with me please.

but I am surprised that you perceive the discussion above as proof of a lack of achdus. Both sides stated their points respectfully as far as I can see, and I believe there is a difference between achdus and lockstep agreement on all issues.

i agree. That was why I said ‘blog’, not ‘thread’. Maybe I misused the word.

This did seem a bit abrasive to me.

I asked why DaMoshe received abrasive-ish responses to his story, which was very nice. My response was not to his story and there is no relation one to the other.

“I suspect that those who are insistent that the message is about smoke detectors “

nisht/mamin/joseph? – nobody has said, “and here is the only lesson to be learned from this”. nobody. And to say that fire safety is A point that was gleaned is being responsible. There are no shortage of lessons to be learned and i am sure taking any action from a situation can bring a zchus to those who suffered. There is no reason to believe otherwise.

You forgot to write lol at the bottom of your post.

stam – I don’t know you so i dont know if your last post is true or not but i have a very hard time believing any doctor or nurse would say such a thing and i surely would not feel comfortable choosing a doctor who believes that way.

Here’s my suggestion, spend a day with a family with an autistic child. Then find a joke for us.

owl – you don’t know that s/he doesn’t. the fact is that there is nothing wrong with the joking per se. it is coming on with no context, without the listeners knowing your negius, and making a joke. we all may have responded differently had an op started a thread this way, “After a trip to the fruit store with my autistic son i had the funniest thought . . .”

or

“after spending days sifting through ‘autism research’ with other parents, I have drawn the conclusion that the real cause of autism was the creation of Thomas cartoons”

“First Alert also makes an escape ladder for about $35 on Amazon if you have to escape from the second floor. Get one and give one to a Gemach!!!”

you know what, ZD? that is an excellent idea! I think donating some smoke detectors or ladders would be awesome and I would bet there are people who could use a new one who can’t afford one.

akuperma – two others I have read about are ultrasounds and genetic modifications of foods.

I must throw in as my own two cents, however, that with all I have learned, seen and experienced of autism, if I had to pick something as a cause (which i don’t)I personally would put my money on something food-based. Seeing the types of problems they suffer from (gastrointestinally) and the behaviors they display, and seeing what food sensitivities have sparked in many people, it is probably the closest relationship of all the correlated things i have seen.

ubiquitin – I remember learning in psychology class that circumcision is so traumatic for babies that that is why they have such strong aversions to going to doctors in their childhood.

I would have to assume someone rebutted it later with blaming it on vaccines.

I work with a child who went into cardiac arrest the day/week (don’t remember which)of his vaccine. He was brought back thru CPR and is living his life in a wheelchair unable to move any muscles other than his eyes. His family believes this was a result of the vaccines. I know another child who died from pertussis. Her friends believe this was a result of not having had vaccines.

We cannot use isolated situations, even hundreds of isolated situations, to speak for thousands or millions. Sometimes the answer is that we just don’t know.

whatever makes you happy . . .

you may not be ‘random’, but you are still “random”. And either way, the first post in a thread is not part of a discussion until after it gets responses. And lastly, I don’t believe you were offended by my assumptions because I didn’t make any. And you have also demonstrated thicker skin than that.

I find that sweeping generalities reign supreme. I am not implying that nobody is allowed to joke about it. I am saying that a random poster should not make joking statements about difficult life situations or painful subjects in a mocking way unless it is within a context or part of a specific discussion.

When I am sitting with people who know that I have lost my only two sisters and my parents, and sat shiva four times in six years, I will sometimes make a “joke” about loss, about shiva, about death or mourning. But they know where I am coming from. If I showed up to a new group and started making jokes about death, it could potentially be very painful to someone who has recently suffered a loss, giving the impression that I think it is a light topic.

This is my experience and understanding, others can feel differently. But as someone with a very cynical and sarcastic sense of humor, who has been through my share of traumas, and made my share of jokes, I feel confident making this point.

and mw13 has a point as well.

no

I understand that this thread is making fun of the people who blame autism on other things, and not making fun of autism, but it really isn’t a funny topic and it is somewhat in poor taste. I have no doubt rebyidd can find many other things to make fun of that will be less abrasive to those of us who’s lives are closely tied to autism.