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There are Burka women in Geula, I dont know which group they are from
NY state has a website for graduation rates for all high schools in the state, you can google it
Ramapo High School has a 63% graduation rate in 2014
Edward R Murrow A high School in Flatbush Brooklyn graduation rate is 81% (I dont know the name of the High School in Williamsburg or Boro Park, but Ive passed Murrow many times so I know that one and its in a jewish park of Brooklyn)
Harvard if you can get into it does not make cost an issue, their endowment is large enough to pay for any student who cannot afford it (Its the only Ivy League School like that)
Most colleges have some sort of financial planning so not everyone has to go to a community college, the City and State universities are fairly inexepensive and good
It doesnt cost less to educate a special needs child at a private school, It actually costs more because in the public school they intergrate them more.
Sending kids to college is a expected result of a proper high school education and getting them into good colleges is also expect, just because some people do not value the education received at an Ivy League school doesnt mean its not worthy to try to get kids in
Just to make clear, I never said or intended to even imply that any election wasnt free or fair. As far as I know all the elections have been on the up and up and that we also live in a democracy where we have majority rules and protections for the minority (Jews usually need protections from being minorities in most places, otherwise laws could be passed to hurt jews like Blue Laws or needed laws to protect sabbath observance)
Every district is required to education all special ed children , not just frum ones
Mods
Please fix “if you will” to “if you win”
Done. For future reference, you can edit your own posts within 25 minutes of posting.
PBA
If you win in an impartial hearing, the city pays the lawyers, If you lose you have to pay the lawyers, If you settle, the lawyers fees come of out of the settlement amount.
mammle my definition of inadequte is not MY definition, I know people very close to me who worked for the NYC board of ed in the special ed depaprtment and they know what will pass for inadequte and what will not. We have had many conversations over this topic
Yiddish is not the only foreign language spoken in NY and most of them have very very teachers. Why should a yiddish speaker get special treatment and not a Pashtun speaker.
Other than Spanish and maybe Mandarin and a few others there are very few qualified teachers in any other language.
Joseph I was at the internet Asifa at Citifield (actually I was in the Tennis Stadium) and he gave a blanket banning with no leeway
DY
Its very hard to prove that, And you have to go to an a beaurocrat who thinks religous schools are nonsense and when they refuse you have to convince a arbritor that private schools are better than public schools and again many of them do not belive in relgious schools and certainly do not believe in segregated schools (in the relgious sense)
I cant give my sources, however I do have very intricate on the issue of special ed. If you want the City or local municipality to pay for private school special ed , you have to sue them with a lawyer and hope you win (In the city this is a little easier than most suburbs) because in the City they use high priced lawyers to fight people on the Upper East Side and Upper West side of Manhattan who higher high priced lawyers for $75,000 a year special ed schools so you can usually win in Brooklyn if you hire a good lawyer however in the Suburbs its almost impossible to win
Usually the district pays for text books and busing and they are required to pay for special ed in their own public schools, They are only required to pay for special ed in private schools if the parents can prove the public schools are inadequte for their kids
And Inadquete does not mean you dont want your kids in a mixed gender class with non-charedi kids talking about TV and pop music. It means stuff like the class size is wrong for your kid or they dont have the exact services your kid needs to help him learn better
Does anyone else see the irony when Joseph calls Rav Wosner the Posek Hador when it comes to women driving and posts this on the internet which Rav Wosner personally banned in public at the internet Asifa a few years ago.
The guy whose kids AP calculus class was cancelled , Their band was cancelled and the basketball team was cancelled and therefore has no extra curricular activity and will likely have great difficulty getting into an Ivy League school, goes down to the school board to complain and is told he is an Anti-Semitic .
You need extra-curricular activity to get into many top universities
With great power comes great responsibility
The last few comments are sacastic
However they do make a serious point, what would you do if you were doing something all your life and other frum yidden did the same same and all of a sudden just your rav forbade it
Kol Bnei Yisroel Arevin Zeh L-Zeh
APY
Why does it bother anyone here what the RCA does??
Are they asking you to follow any of the Hanahgos, Are they an abusive cult.
You still havent answered my question why those who critize some more modern Rabbis are unwilling to take the heat themselves
Social contructs can also create negative result
For example what about a woman who is divorced , widow or whose husband cannot drive for whatever reason (Maybe even temporary). Should she be ostracized. Maybe she doesnt want to tell the whole community that her husband broke his leg or is in the hospital for a private matter
People who live in East Ramapo and send their kids to public school have an equal right to demand what they think they deserve. Just like the charedim want seperate buses, they want Art and Music.
Its funny how someone demands AP Calculus is an “activist” and someone who demands Busing to yeshiva is no and BTW NYC does NOT provide busing for most students in the city so its not mandatory.
Most Public schools have extra curricular activies its not an “extra item”
Its not so easy to pack up an leave.
If someones father and grandfather were Belz , According to Halacha you are not allowed to change Minhagim if you disagree with your Posek.
But if you do it anyway you are likely to have your kids thrown out of school and your yourself excomunted from your family and friends
All because you wanted to drive your kids to scholl
The idea of Gedarim is supposedly to prevent people from straying
Its very easy here for people to condem leftist leaning halacha claiming its straying, however people PRAISE rightis chumras and dont realize they can just as easily cause people to go off.
I have certainly seen people here condem actions in Teaneck or the 5 towns when they dont live there and have nothing to do with those communtities.
Tchum Shabbos wasnt an issue at Belmont. There are houses on the other side of the Cross Island certainly less than a mile from the track and there are houses directly to the South of Belmont an Im sure to the east as well (I drive on the Cross Island alot so I am familar with that area as seen from the Cross Island)
People are banned today for minhagim such as wearing a spodik vs. a Straimel. You have the choice not to attend those minyanim.
I have a friend who once was thrown out of a (regular shul) minyan because he didn’t have a Hat & Jacket for davening. The people who make those rules will have to answer to God, not you
And I can assure you that there are some people when kicked out of a Kehila or shul for not conforming to some “Chumra” decide its all a farce ‘Ruled by Rabbis” and go OTD . I have heard people say this drove them away.
Please explain why this isnt an option. This has absolutely no bearing on your life and quite frankly the hanhagos this community accepts upon itself is none of your business. It becomes your business when they make the claims that this is the accepted practice among those jews who follow the shulchan aruch, and those who dont adopt this practice are in violation of the shulchan aruch. They have not made such a claim, so, it is none of anyones business.
Today is a Minhag, tomorrow it becomes “Halacha” and reason not to give people Aliyot and other things and children banned from schools etc
DY
Actually its the other way around, Casinos are very classy and horse tracks are very seedy. Even if you have never been to one you must have passed by one.
If you go to Aqueduct, the casino part is very nice and the race track is seedy.
I also think it says somewhere in the Gemorah a gambler was invalid as an eid because he is taking money from someone else who doesnt really want to give it to him and frankly its also Genevas daas as gambling tricks people into thinking they will become rich instantly (The NY Lottos commericals)
Art Music and Athletics are not extras, they are very important to the community unfortunatly the frum community downplays these things , but it doesnt mean the other communties . In fact there is a state requirement for Art and music in the curriculum.
If you are going to get on the School board its your responsility to take care of everyone and that might mean paying for things you dont like or agree. Certainly there is a certain kind of “education” generally taught in public schools not generally taught by yeshivas, but it is very important for teens especially ones with raging hormones.
The issue isnt bussing, its seperate busing which costs extra because many times the same buses have to do almost the same route at least twice one for the boys and one for the girls.
As far as special ed, generally those students are usually just educated in public schools, however in Ramapo they are usually bused to Kiryat Joel (The frum ones) and The cost is about double what it would cost to educate them in the regular public schools (Not saying frum kids should go to public schools, but sending them to Kiryat Joel is very expensive)
Had the owners kept quiet about judaism and just see the race quietly , thats one thing however they turned this into a ‘Frum Horse” and thats as they say A horse of the differnt color
DY
Do you see the difference between someone who drives on Shabbos and a Frum person who cheats on their taxes and then is arrested on TV?
One is basically between the person and hashem, hashem can decide what to do
The other makes the general public think badly of jews and they are thieves and that is much harder to recover from.
The problem as I see it the law requires certain Free Education requirements that all municipalities pay, However most of the people in East Ramapo are against public school , while they cannot eliminate it, they can reduce it as much as they can (and then some) and hope those people just leave.
Just because the Charedim are the majority, doesnt mean the minority doesnt have rights and those rights must be taken care of
I think some people are mixing up Chilul Shabbos with Chilul Hashem
My issue with this is not the shabbos angle, but rather the “frum Horse” and the chabad angle along with the gambling and the idea that seems to come out that its ok for a Tzdekah to take money from someone who makes money from gambling
The Belmont was last Shabbos
As far as women driving or not in Chasidic communities, its no ones business. Who’s pointing the gun at you or your wife and telling her not to drive? If you don’t belong to that Chasidus , you can choose who you listen to.
Then take your own advice and dont tell the more modern communities how to act either, It goes both ways. If one feels they must give chizuk to the more modern commuities , you must expect the more modern communties to give it back when they see something wrong
The Supermarket in the shopping center by entrance to KJ to not massive at all, its a similar size to ones in Brooklyn. Supermarkets in Brooklyn arent that big. There is a Stop and Shop (or maybe walbaums) (I think) across the street (or near) woodbury common , that is what I would call a massive supermarket
Its fairly easy to live without a car in williamsburg or Borough Park (in fact a car there can be a nuisance), however KJ is not like Williamsburgh at all
I did not grow up in KJ, I am not chassidish. I have been there quite a few times, We sometimes go to Woodbury common and if we are hungry we stop in KJ for food so thats why I am familiar with the area.
I happen to like walking, I like living in a place where I can walk, but also have the option to drive (Needed when carrying heavy things like groceries or paint).
In a Car the driver can drive where ever he wants even in the daytime, there are places even in the daytime that are pretty empty. You certainly here plenty of stories of Cab drivers driving off course, I personally hate going into a cab and will only go if absolutly nessasary which is very rare (Maybe once or twice a year)
As someone who grew up in the Suburbs I can tell you the KJ is not better than the other suburbs. KJ is not as walkable, It seemed easily over a mile on a hilly road from the end of it to the small shopping center near the entrance and the supermarket there was quite small unlike normal supermarkets.
And the hemish drivers are still males, so the women really are in Yichud with a male
I think its very legitimate to bring up Rav Kotler, If people are going to quote other Gedolim, Rav Kotlers opinon counts too
I have personally seen Rebbetzin Neuman (The Grandaughter of Rav Kotler) drive Rav Neuman
NB your started this thread before the horserace last Shabbos, Its true the horse ran in the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness which also occured on Shabbos, but the horse really became famous last shabbos.
Maybe for those who dont read newspapers or listen to the news it might be a new story, but most of the US public has heard of this “Frum Horse”.
Actually Bais Sheni was quite simple until King Herod came along and he made it grand
edited
I dont know the family, I do think they were at the track though (I saw a picture of the wife)
It has been discussed in many contexts including the Shabbos issue.
The family has been pretty public about alot of these issues
This story is being discussed in many places including the other frum website. It is a major story
Also, Rav Vozner writes in his psak that the Gemora’s restriction against women driving a wagon carries over to driving.
While I dont have an exact psak quote, The women of Lakewood do drive so obviously Rav Aharon Kotler permitted it.
The kehillas that have this restriction tend to live in cities or self-sufficient towns that people are within walking distance to many necessities and have school busing and modes of public transportation.
Kiryat Joel is not in a city and is more spread out than williamsburg and you really need a car there
To put it this way, I consider it a bigger Chilul Hashem when people say, Look how those jews act, they act all holier than thou and yet they act dispecable like getting blessings for a racehorse than someone who owns a small ice cream store open on Shabbos (And operates his store properly and honestly (Not known as a horrible person who cheats customers or acts miserably) and acts in otherwise respectful ways
Put it this way which is the Bigger Chilul hashem
A shomer Shabbos person who is a gambler,
Or
A Mechalel Shabbos person who works as a social worker
Its one thing to ask for a Bracha to be a success for a normal job (Like a teacher)
However gambling isnt a normal livelyhood
If you have ever been to a Racetrack or most casinos (Las Vegas does get a higher class of people) you will see the people who hang out are not exactly chashuv people
Wasnt there some story of the Chofetz Chaim being asked to bless a lottery ticket and he refusing
Specifically Shulchan Aruch EH 73:1. Shulchan Aruch says a woman’s place is at home and that a wife should not go outside too much
Perhaps then the men should leave Kollel and go out and work so the women can stay at home
Gambling is not a profession I think someone should get into and I dont think taking money from people in the gambling profession (and this includes owning casinos) is such a good idea. Unfortuantly these people who make money this way have alot to give and people are more than willing to take their money since they have alot.
IMO it was a chilul Hashem, not that they owned a race horse or that it was run on Shabbos, but there was an idea that a Race horse can get a bracha for a donation
What if the donor and the owners of the charity have a falling out (Ive seen this happen)
Very few people (If any) give large sums of money with no strings attached, the strings might very reasonable requests like proper accounting or not to make the place a palace of nepotism and hiring qualified people
I have been to weddings of close family members of some major Roshei Yeshivas. When some of the songs that I mentioned before came on from the band, not only did the Roshei Yeshivas not protest, they danced to the music of the songs that were mentioned before.
Either they did not know they came from Non jewish music (Which I doubt because many people know the sources of these songs and someone must have told them at some point) or they hold its Halachically OK