21 Responses

1. The kinnus of the real shluchim of the Rebbe, who proclaim yechi proudly, and are up front about their messianic beliefs, had its banquet last night. It can be seen at chabad info dot com.

2. kiddush lubavitch!

3. At the rate the shluchim are increasing they will soon need several blocks on Easter Parkway for the annual photo.

4. Seeing the tremendous # of Shluchim כן-ירבו and knowing the exceedingly confined space at the אוהל:- Does visiting at אוהל during the כינוס go by advance reservation & very limited time to remain in אוהל?

5. Lemayseh, you identified an “alternative” smaller group of “shluchim” that have another agenda than these shluchim.

   You say that they had their own modest banquet, separate and apart from these shluchim. This “break away” banquet was not covered by YWN likely because of the comparative small attendance.

   Clearly you agree that the small “alternative” group should not be confused with this massive group.

   Proof is, the shluchim have a group picture, that all can see. The “alternative” group do not (and cannot) produce a group picture which would reveal the sparseness of their membership.

   This splinter group lurks in the shadows of anonymity, making disruptive noise, and using childish tactics to get the attention that they crave, such as:

   Flags: when did Yidden use flags aside from in the Midbar to show the location of each shevet (are you a separate shevet?)

   Yarmalkas with proclamations -when did frum Yidden write messages on their yarmalkas?! (Did anyone see a yarmalka with Shema Yisroel on it?! When did this “minhag start?!)

   Pins in their lapels – like politicians with a pin for their country as USA senators or congressmen wear a USA flag on their lapel (-is that a Yiddishe minhag or are you going b’chukas hagoyim?!)

   The childish need to pat themself on the back, pretend importance and undermine the overwhelming majority of Chabad (that I met) who do not in any way endorse these rebels, remind me of Korach v’Adoso (a small group that rebelled against Moshe) who also used childish tactic playing dress up – wearing special t’cheles clothes (and maybe they too used yellow or t’cheles flags, lapel pins and proclamations on the walls to compensate for the sparseness of their group).

   If you have your own rebel “banquet”, and your own minhagim of proclaiming yechi in the middle of davening (do you say the Aseres Hadibros in your davening – Chazal removed it and the reason applies to Yechi too), why not adopt a new name and instead of calling this rebel group “shluchim”, call them Yechi’im and break away from the mainstream Chabad once and for all?

   Why remain the “enemy from within”? Does this small group of rebels not have enough “supporters” or members to create a separate entity/chasidus?!

6. Lemayseh, you refer to an “alternative” banquet for a breakaway group of so-called “shluchim”. That took place in a minor wedding hall in Crown Heights called Razak.

   My inquiries discovered that the maximum capacity is 400 occupants.

   The photos available showed multiple empty tables! By my estimate, there might have been 200 people there – at best.

   The attendees were mainly small pockets of LOCAL residents of Crown Heights (with minor exceptions) and a showing of a group of teenage boys from Israel. Out-of-town guests who call themself alternative “shluchim”, maybe a couple of dozen!

   A free meal draws a minor crowd to attend! Like a kiddush, this was a melava malka – with an agenda to steal the limelight from the shluchim. It failed.

   Is a small gathering new worthy?! Oh, the modus operandi is to make lots of noise to get attention. That failed too.

   Bravo.

7. In response to “Rebbitzen” : The shluchim that say yechi openly are not insignificant. In fact, the MC of their banquet has the largest Chabad House. I am referring to the Rebbe’s shliach Yosef Carlebach of Rutgers Chabad in NJ, who has ten Habad houses. The largest Chabad House is part of the group! It is true that they are not as polished with PR as the other side, which is more polished under veteran Lubavitch PR meister Yudel Krinsky.

   But your attempt to paint the openly messianic Lubavitchers as a small fringe group is misleading. They control the Chabad Shul at 770 Eastern Parkway, where the Rebbe had his farbrengens. Observers of Chabad in general know that the wearing of yechi yarmulkas is widespread in it, and it is not just a few kids that do it. And then there are the numerous Lubavitchers that believe the Rebbe is Moshiach, but conceal that. So the attempt by corporate Chabad to cover up and censor and hide them, should be corrected and resisted.

8. @Lemayseh

   A liar will lie.

   And you seems to enjoy the concept of spreading motzei shem ra, lashon hara, and sinas chinom.

   May Hashem bless you that you stop earning yourself the title of a rasha, and you instead invest yourself in worthy causes: spreading ahavas yisroel, and learning/spreading Torah.

9. CWN

10. I investigated the chareidim in Israel (the true yeshivish learners in Yerusholayim and Bnei Brak) vs the fringe “chareidi” hooligans that make hafganot, blocking traffic, and burn down cellular stores and other acts of terror = they are a very small minority that do not represent the overwhelming population of Torah true Yeshivish bnei Torah oilom! Although you see lots of news stories about hooligan behaviors, it is false to paint the oilom haYeshivos in Israel as hooligans

    I investigated the Chassidus of Breslev vs the Na Nach Nachmonites and the hippy-like weirdos with wild dancing on car tops = they are a small minority that do not represent the overwhelming population of serious Torah v’avodah and spiritual growth of the Breslev Chassidus with remarkable mashpiim and Roshei Yeshivos and Rabbonim Geonim! Although you see lots of Ma Mach Machmonite yarmarkas and posters, it is false to paint the Chassidus of Breselev as those fringe “Breslovers”!

    I likewise investigated Chabad Chassidus (followers of their Rebbe ZTZ”L) vs the loud Yechi splinter group = they are a small minority that are tolerated by the overwhelming majority (which I disagree since ahavas Yisroel and avoiding machlokes has its limits!). Although you see their flags and posters including in the main shul of Chabad, it is wrong to paint the Chabad Chassidus with the behaviors of a fringe splinter group.

    If you understand that the Chareidi-Litvish yeshivish Torah world of Israel aren’t a bunch of hooligans, and the wonderful Chassidus of Breslev is not a bunch of wackos, then apply the same honest assessment to Chabad Chassidus.

11. Rebbitzen Goldenpickanicerscreenname is being a little to harsh in the criticism of a few misguided individuals. I would have thought after all these years those misguided individuals would realize that the Rebbe isn’t Moshiach.

12. In response to the comment of “Rebbitzen” 3:51 PM:

    Clever response, but there is no גזרה שוה between the three groups that you discussed. Each has a different dynamic, with different ideology in play. It is known that the allegedly non-messianic segment of Chabad-Lubavitch also contains many who view the late Rebbe as Moshiach. However, they hide that belief, as the Rebbe himself instructed, to do things באופן המתקבל. They daven for the Rebbe to redeem them when they go to his resting place, which they call The Ohel.

13. Lemayseh, another case of broken record ChaBaD slander. Please look in the mirror and make a true cheshbon
    Hanefesh before posting another utterly ignorant comment.

14. The truth remains the truth. I will let neutral, open-minded people judge the issue. Lubavitchers like you, with their knee-jerk defensive reactions and attacks, do not qualify to adjudicate such matters.

15. Lemayseh – “they go to his resting place, which they call The Ohel.”

    Your rabid ranting to point out abnormalities in Chabad seems to have made you lose touch with reality.

    If you check Wikipedia under “Ohel (grave)”:

    “Ohel (Hebrew: אוהל; plural: ohelim, literally, “tent”)[1][2] is a structure built around a Jewish grave as a sign of prominence of the deceased. Ohelim cover the graves of some (but not all) Hasidic Rebbes, important rabbis, tzadikim, prominent Jewish community leaders, and biblical figures. Typically a small masonry building, an ohel may include room for visitors to pray, meditate, and light candles in honor of the deceased.”

    The Ohel is not a Chabad invention but rather normative Judaism – which you apparently have a problem with.

    Wikipedia lists multiple Ohalim:

    Single-grave ohel
    Baba Sali, Netivot, Israel
    Chida, Har HaMenuchot, Jerusalem
    Yonatan ben Uziel, Amuka, Israel
    Elimelech of Lizhensk, Leżajsk, Poland
    Chaim Ozer Grodzinski, leader of pre-war Eastern European Jewry
    Nachman of Breslov, Uman, Ukraine
    Nathan of Breslov, Breslov, Ukraine
    Rachel, wife of Rabbi Akiva, Tiberias, Israel
    Vilna Gaon, Vilnius, Lithuania

    Multiple-grave ohel
    Avraham Mordechai Alter and Pinchas Menachem Alter, the third and sixth rebbes of Ger, Jerusalem
    Baal Shem Tov, Ze’ev Wolf Kitzes, the Degel Machaneh Ephraim, the Apter Rav, and Rabbi Boruch of Medzhybizh, Medzhybizh, Ukraine
    Avrohom Bornsztain and his son Rabbi Shmuel Bornsztain, Sochatchover Rebbes
    Dov Ber of Mezeritch and Zusha of Anipoli
    Shlomo Halberstam and Naftali Halberstam, the third and fourth Bobover Rebbes, New York
    Yosef Yitzchok Schneersohn and Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the sixth and seventh Lubavitcher Rebbes, Queens, New York
    Joel Teitelbaum and Moses Teitelbaum, first and second Satmar Rebbes

    Biblical figures and Talmudic sages
    Biblical figures and Mishnaic and Talmudic sages are typically buried in ohelim:[citation needed]

    Benjamin (near Kfar Saba, Israel)
    Esther and Mordechai, Hamadan, Iran
    Habakkuk, northern Israel
    Judah, Yehud, Israel
    Rabbi Meir or Rabbi Meir Baal HaNes (Rabbi Meir the miracle maker) was a Jewish sage who lived in the time of the Mishna.
    Rachel, near Bethlehem
    Simeon bar Yochai, Meron, Israel is the site of a large annual Lag BaOmer celebration
    Yose HaGelili, Dalton, Israel

    Lemayseh howling at the moon does not affect the moon but only gives the rabid dog a sore throat from howling so much. Instead, prozac works better.

16. “Rebbitzen”, yes, you are correct that ohel is not an invention of Chabad. Why I even remember from my youth, a Torah verse where ohel is mentioned, זאת התורה אדם כי ימות באהל (במדבר יט:יד).

    Thank you so much.

17. Regarding the above bickering, I wanted to mention (for whatever it’s worth) that the Rebbe ZY”A set up a very specific system in establishing the Shlichus organization. He placed certain people in charge of the various mosdos, and these steps were taken both according to Jewish law, with eidim etc., as well as according to US law.

    I know personally of several “shluchim” of the type who crown themselves with the title, on account of their having been “sent by the Rebbe on our own accord!”
    They pulled opened up Igros, and because they read a letter that can somehow be understood to mean that they should go on Shlichus, that’s it!
    Forget what the Rebbe actually instituted, apparently… If I FEEL like it (yes that’s an inside joke, referring to the acronym which is the fundament basis of the ChaBaD movement) then that’s what it is!

    Furthermore, regarding what was mentioned abt control of 770. As I mentioned above, 770 was placed OFFICIALLY (i.e. by the very Rebbe they claim to believe is alive – but never really act like it somehow) in the hands of certain individuals. Those said individuals can easily and happily bring in authorities to empty out the place and barr it from entry, to preserve it for safekeeping. Not wishing to create a (bigger) machlokes, he lets the hooligans who control 770 (in a manner not very different from a horde of barbarians who settled atop a hill yelling and screaming at all who pass, foolishly sure of their own might and valor) feel good about themselves that they can still pretend in their childish fantasies that everything is the same as it ever was.

    The sad thing is, that there is an inkling of truth to the latter statement: even before the histalkus (in fact, even before 27 Adar) this was indeed always the same for these maniacs – they always were rowdy, made a mess out of everything, and once in a while evoked a harsh criticism from the Rebbe himself….

    These “successful” *bet chabad” centers run by these fanatics, are not listed on the official Chabad registry. They may as well be extremely successful Kabbala Center branches – their success does not in any way prove their authenticity.

    They act independent of the Rebbe’s wishes — just read the sichos, maamarim (please don’t start citing a single sicha and claim that you know what you’re talking about – all the Rebbe’s teachings follow a very clear theme, perhaps several themes, which can be found within the rest, all the way down to his letters in Igros). See the videos… Read between the lines…. The Rebbe may as well have begged us to open our eyes to the giant mess that would be made by these kofrim. The absolute churban they continue to make in the Rebbe’s name… Oy meh haya lanu…

18. I always find it entertaining, that those who claim that the Rebbe is still alive – are actually those that act as though he weren’t alive AT ALL!

19. @Rebbetzin

    You do know that wikipedia is publicly sourced? To cite as a source makes any argument look weaker. Also, have you ever sat down and put time chabad seforim? Have you perhaps had honest discussion with shluchim? Lets assume you havent since you didnt mention. Understand that one sided research is not called research, it is simply looking to discredit one side in opposition to another.

    Secondly, the level of obsession with bashing chabad bchlal is absurd. It is unncessarry and obvious bittul torah. Consider instead learning with your children, and/or spend some more time with bubby and zeidy.

    When people decide to hate yidden instead of putting time into their avodas hashem and their families , the yetzer hara wins every time in these in this instance. TO BE EVEN MORE CLEAR, OUR CHILDREN AND OUR COMMUNITIES LOSE OUT WHEN OUTSPOKEN INDIVIDUALS PUT ANY AMOUNT OF TIME INTO MAKING OTHER YIDDEN LOOK BAD.

    Seriously, consider WHEN instead of trying to antagonize anyone yidden – you could actually be focusing on how to compete with chabad, which means working on what you do best whatever that is.

    My advice for all those that find themselves with a “chabad obsession” is that they should work on themselves to avoid throwing tempter tantrums in public, because with that energy they could improve their daf yomi shiurim and/or mussar shmuzen.

    May we should all be zocheh to have boundless 100% simcha in our davening and learning.

20. Everyone should probably mind their own business, and work on their avodas hashem. Regarding the average Chabad Chossid, this has been their mesorah for 250 years, they do tend to be very attached to their rabbeim, and sometimes a bit more obsessed than everyone else in Klal Yisroel. Why is being a bit over obsessed with a Rebbe worse than a ridiculous over obsession I see in gashmiyus in Lakewood, where I live. Some (who are so called “askonim”) idolize money and materializm to a ridiculous degree.

21. koltov7, if you read what I wrote, it is clear that although I do not belong to any chassidic community, I admire the Chabad Chassidus (just as much as I admire many other kehilos) and I champion truth.

    When someone writes a falsehood trying to bash that chassidus, I pointed out the falsehood.

    The iconic words of נצור לשונך מרע are followed by ושפתיך מדבר מרמה.

    I expose the דבר מרמה of those that speak לשון הרע