Out Of The Mailbag – To YW Editor (Where is The Friendship?)

138

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yw logo11.jpgDear Friends,

I am a single girl aged 21, who is still awaiting my bashert, while almost all of my friends are married.

To my friends: I happily went to all of your Simcha’s, your Lechaim’s, Vort’s, wedding’s from beginiing to end, and helped out in all your wedding preparations.

Why is it, that the minute your wedding is over, our friendship is over?? How many nights did i spend talking to you, helping you prepare all that you needed, and all i get is a slap in the face?

I understand you don’t have as much time for me as you used to, but all I’m asking is for a two minute phone call, an email, a text – just to let me know that you are thinking about me.

You had a baby 6 months ago, and I called you to wish you Mazel Tov. Did you not have the decency to invite me over for a few minutes to see your little one? I am trying to be Don Lekaf Zchus, but it is so painful. We all chipped in for a present for you, for your wedding, and when I call you to chip in for someone else, why are you always complaining?? Did we not do the same for you? Yes, I know some will argue that you are on a Kollel budget – well, we are not millionaires either, and we manage to pay the 10 dollars.

Another thing is that when I do finally get to speak to you, you are busy interrupting every minute with tidbits about the chicken you are making as you speak to me. People like to feel important, like they have your undivided attention. if you are cooking, that is not a good time to be speaking to someone else!

Last but not least: Before you got married, you were busy saying how you will “Redd” Shidduchim to me – and all the other single friends. The minute after you get married, you changed your tune. No it’s “I don’t know, my husband doesn’t know anyone.” Do you know how painful that is for a single girl to hear? What do you mean your husband doesn’t know anyone? (And I’m talking to my friends whose husbands learn in BMG, with over 4,000 bochurim) is there not 1 boy out there for me?

Or how about when I ask you to ask your husband to push a shidduch? The response I get is either “my husband doesn’t feel comfortable”, or “my husband is shy”. What happened to everything you said before you got married – how you would help all your friends? If you weren’t planning on helping them, you shouldn’t have said anything to begin with!

I can go on and on with story’s about how inconsiderate some (I write some, because there are a FEW select friends who are not like this) friends are to their single friends.

I think i speak for many single girls out there.

A frustrated & pained girl in Shidduchim.

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The views expressed in this column reflect the opinions of the individual writers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Yeshiva World News LLC. These individual opinions are also in no way meant as a P’sak Halacha or Hashkafa. As with all matters, be sure to consult with a Rov with all questions.


138 COMMENTS

  1. These inconsiderate people you are talking about are NOT your friends. They probably just used you when they were single and now dumped you because they are married. It happens like that all over with everyone. The few select friends you have and most people have are the true friends you can count on. I am sure you still have some of those. hold on to those and forget about the snobby selfish ones. I hope your true friends find you your bashert and hopefully you will not forget them after you get married. Good luck.

  2. I agree 100% with the writer! I am not 21 yet but i am 19. Half of my friends are married. The second they get married, all of a sudden i am out of their life. Like the writer wrote ” just to call up for 2 minutes on the phone and say i am thinking of you, or send a text”……think about your single friends…..

  3. Sadly in the frum world, being single is not recognized as a fact of life, but rather a disease to be cured. If that weren’t bad enough, we make it ever increasingly difficult for single men and women to meet and those few opportunities that still exist, are so high pressured and artificial (i.e. nonsense like speed dating) that it is impossible for people to feel comfortable enough to just be themselves.

  4. im a zadie, so i cant say i really understand your world.
    but i see this is very sad for you.
    i hope some help will come from the comments here(or at least some understanding of “the other side of the story”, if there is one).

    may H”KBH bless you with your beshert very soon, may you find a way to remove all bad feelings towards others from your heart, and may you always do Chesed for others.

  5. To this wonderful young girl, let me tell you something you may not know, of perhaps more accurately, you choose to be in denial about…..
    Iy”h you should find your bashert very, very soon. you cannot, and should not, and may not, and DARE NOT, judge a newly married girl. it’s totally not your place to decide when and where and how your married friend should make time for you. GROW UP. if you were a true friend, and knew your place, you would gracefully step back and allow your friend some privacy and SPACE. she has a new friend now. FACE IT.

  6. I have a hard time feeling sorry for you. It doesn’t sound like you’re being understanding of your friends’ transitions…. give it some time. They are in the midst of a major life change and need space. Perhaps it’s best to focus on your single friends for now. I”H one day you will be in their shoes and you will understand, hopefully soon!

  7. totally agree with most of what u said. it’s definitely annoying that just because our friends get married, all of a sudden, they feel so much more important.

    but i’m not sure you’re right about the 4000 guys in lakewood. last i heard, there are only about 800 single ones.. so there goes the crisis!

  8. While I strongly sympathize with this letter writer, I feel it is quite unfortunate that a young girl – only 21 years old – feels like an old maid. Why do many girls feel that if they’re not married by 19 they are doomed.
    Now, I agree that married friends should not forget their single friends, and should try, when possible to redd them shidduchim. However, “Al taadin es chavercha,” remember that the young married couples may be overwhelmed with their new stage in life – getting used to living with their spouse, being financially responsible for their everyday lives, etc. They may not feel comfortable pressing their husband to push a shidduch that he doesn’t even know! And you really don’t know their financial situations. Not everyone gets support from their parents. To some people those $10 (and often it is $20) for every shower adds up, especially when you come form a large school. And believe it or not, sometimes they are just uncomfortable speaking with you simply because they are afraid to offend or hurt you as they leave you behind and move on to the next stage of life. Hopefully, as their lives settle down, they will remember their friends, and respond to your overtures. Don’t give up! Our tefillos are with you!

  9. I am also a twenty-one year old girl in a very similar situation to you. This letter was well written and realisticall expressed a single girl’s frustration and pain, specifically regarding newly married friends. The best advice I can think of is what I tell myself, when you get married iyH soon- YOU will not be like that. I think the emphasis should be made- being married doesn’t make our friends act the way they do. Rather its a middos issue.

  10. I know alot of ppl in your situation… on the one hand people should really try to be more considerate…nothing justifies hurting someone 🙂 & on the other hand…you never know whats going on in yur married friends life…i dont think theyre purposely ignoring you or acting that way…but i dont really know!…i daven that very soon youll get married and i rest assured youll never traet your friends the same way!!!

  11. Dear Single Age 21,

    Until you are in your friend’s shoes you really cannot pass judgement. It’s like asking a person who just dove into a pool why they didn’t take a moment to talk to you while they were still in the air, or while they were under the water. And even when they come up for air it can take a while to catch their breath and swim to the side. Case in point is myself. From the moment that ring was on my finger my life turned into a whirlwind. I was UNABLE to take those few moments to make a call. And I’ll never forget my mother’s words to me. She said, “your real, true friends will stick to you.” It’s really a test of true friendship. For some people it takes a while to settle down and get used to their new identity. Your friends, if they are true friends, are not ignoring you out of “meankeit”. I’ve been married for eighteen years now and my close friends from all the way back when I was just married are still my true friends. Even though I seemingly ignored them for several months. And my so called other friends who were hurt have never kept in touch since. I was so pained at the time. Couldn’t they just dan l’kaf zechus and realize that I wasn’t hurting them on purpose? Give your friends their space. And if you are true friends, your friendship will eventually be rekindled.

  12. My dear pained friend (and i use the term friend seriously),

    As you will progress in life, you will note that there are people who seem one way on the outside but are different on the inside .These “friends” you speak of, are the people who maintained a friendship with you because they needed it either for emotional or practical reasons. Once they feel they no longer need it, they let the friendship fall by the wayside. These are not true friends! Your situation is unfortunately not uncommon. You are dealing with a different issue altogether. You are dealing with the issue of being a sincere person, being hurt by the lack of sincerity by others who “seem” to care. This is not exclusive to girls who get married. I can tell you personally of friends in their 30s and 40s, when they need you, they love you, when they dont, they forget about you. You seem like a sincere person and I admire you for it. Do not allow yourself to be jaded! You must continue being the person you are, but you must be realistic to the unfortunate facts of how the world is today. People many times, are not as good as they seem, nor do they really deep down care. I can relate to you on many levels as someone who cares for his friends yet I find myself wondering if they feel the same way. Your true friends will reciprocate the friendship and will be by you no matter what and will help you any time. My rebbi once said “A real friend is not someone you can call at 3 A.M. for an emergency. ANYONE and EVERYONE is willing to help then. A real friend is someone you can call when they are busy in the middle of the day, and you need to talk or some help with something trivial and they take out of their time to help”.

    I wish you luck in the future with all that life has to give you, dont be jaded, but dont be Naive. Life can be tough. Most important of all, the RIBBONO SHEL OLAM knows our thoughts and feelings and doing the right thing, no matter what the other side does is the way to go each and every time.

    Sincerely (and I mean that)

    A feelow jew

  13. Dear Letter Writer,
    Been there done that. I got married at 26.
    I was able to relate to everything you wrote.
    One thing I just want to point out to you is that if your friend’s husband is not interested in pushing a shidduch, it’s not your friend’s fault. They’re 2 separate people and it’s not in her control to “force” him.
    It’s a little bit harder to be dan l’chaf zchus when they say “My husband doesn’t know anyone”, but even there, if someone’s husband isn’t cooperative about brainstorming for shidduch ideas, there’s not much your friend can do. Most men don’t realize how hard it is for girls these days.
    As far as not inviting you over to see her baby, I don’t know if I would have though of inviting someone over who calls to say mazel tov. Sometimes things just don’t occur to people. Even if she did think about it, maybe she thought you’d have no interest. YOu should have taken the initiative and said you’d love to stop by sometime and see her baby.
    Hatzlacha and hope you find your bashert soon.

  14. I want to add a few more points.
    Firstly, it sounds like most of your friends are newlyweds. A lot of them will probably get back in touch with you after they come back down to earth. Hopefully you won’t get to this point, but by the time I got married, I was still close to most of my married friends.
    Secondly, and I don’t expect you to be understanding at this point, is that your friends simply might not have time. Sounds disgusting, no? They should have time for you. I feel that at this point of my life where I work and have small children, to put it plainly, I’m living in a bubble and I’m inconsiderate and I hardly think of other people’s problems. There is simply NO room in my day and my brain. I don’t expect you to be ok with this, but try to at least listen from someone who has been in both places. “Luckily” I had no single friends by the time I got married, so there’s no one complaining aobut how disgusting I am, but if I would have single friends, I am scared to think what they’d think of me.

  15. I hear your pain and anguish.
    However, being dan lekaf zechus would be, that your friend thought she would have more time and the same energy for you.
    You have NO IDEA what is going on in her life that is distracting or time consuming. Even though she talks to you and everything seems fine and dandy, peoples issues and problems reach far across the spectrum and you sometimes can’t even dream up such issues.
    I would advise you to stop putting in all your energy into this “friend” and her husband who DOES NOT know 4000 bochurim.
    Get to know an olderwoman (in her 40’s or 50’s) who has life experience, has raised a respectful and beautiful family, is wise and patient and that you respect. She can’t be famous.
    Talk to her and have a seder with her. Get hadracha and guidance that is productive and posotive.
    Let her introduce you to her mature and accomplished friends.
    Most of all continue davening and may Hashem help you find your zivug hahugun bkarov.
    P.S. When you get married don’t forget your friends.

  16. Oh No! It’s the “My Friend Got Married and Now Won’t Give Me Attention Crisis.”

    Please Eibishter, how much can Your nation tolerate?!

    Weren’t the High-School Homework Crisis and the Plastic Tablecloth Crisis enough to wake us up to do teshuva?!

    Where are the Gedolim and what is their response to this?

  17. Dear Frustrated,
    Sympathy isnt what you want, is it?
    Or are you trying to get the message across to your newly married friends? cuz its not gonna work to fast.
    We singles just have to pick ourselves up and move on, its life, it happens to everyone and its a beautiful thing when your friend is dedicated to her husband, yes your gonna have to wait a few month till she comes back to you, but if shes a true friend she will come back!
    May Hashem help you find your bashert soon!!

  18. People on both sides tend to lose the forest for the trees.
    Soften the message a little and actualy mail this to your friend.

    Not e-mail…real mail, handwritten.

    She just might surprise you.

  19. Stop complaining. I am a couple months away from being 27. Your still young. The Aibishter runs the world, not your friends.

  20. Wow. First you want your friends to speak to you, but you then specify that they may not engage in other activities while speaking to you. So given that your married friend is likely either: preparing the chicken; preparing food for the baby which you weren’t invited to see; so bombed out of her mind because the baby you weren’t invited to see was up all night; actually sleeping to make up those hours; or on her hands and knees cleaning up after said baby’s diaper/mess/recent feeding over a two yard radius, and given that you don’t want to speak to her if she cannot give you her whole and perfect attention, I’m not sure exactly when you want to be called.

  21. ok i have alot to say on this first of all i TOTALLY understand and feel your pain except i am 19yrs old….what has this world come to that young girls my age have to be depressed and sad bec there not married??????!!!!and yes friends tend to slap you in the face when they get married-its sad to sat but this is reality…i recenlty asked a friend to ask her husband if he was able to find out a certian thing abt a boy he learned with in yeshiva what kind of response did i get???!!he has no time!!!!!so so so insenstive a year ago she was complaining to me how she wishes she was married she gets married n just forgets how it feels to be single…..ATTENTION ALLL married girls out there WATCH the way you speak to your single friends…someone called a single friend of mine up recntly after a week of being married what does she tell her??”you dont understnad hello i feel so bad that your not married you dont know how amazing marrige is” what is this??????KEEP your rude cooments to yourself!!!and if you feel so bad try to help her n set her up with somebody-all that you married girls cant do is only to talk n feel bad for evryone else!!!it plain english you guys are selfish!!!yes it may be very overwhelming to be married n all in the begining but hey put yourself in your freinds shoes….PLAIN MIDDOS

  22. dear friend,
    i know how you feel. its very hard when a close friend of yours gets married and just “forgets” about you. but you must understand that your friend is a newlywed and now her life has changed. she has a husband. the fact that she doesnt call you as often doesnt mean that she doesnt like you as much as she did when she was single. she still thinks about you and cherishes ur friendship. you just have to realize that now she is married. she has a different friend in her life. her husband isnt replacing you. you should give her space to be with her husband and if she doesnt call you in two days nu nu.. its ok . imagine how your husband iyh (very soon) would feel if hed come home from yeshiva/work and all youd be doing is talking on the phone to your best friend? or if hed come home and supper wasnt ready because you were busy with your friends? that doesnt mean that you dont love your friends anymore.. it just means that your life got busy and you have things to take care of. i agree with you though that it hurts and that your friend should text you once in a while to see how you are doing.. but you must understand that her life has changed. and if youre talking to your friend who had a baby ask her when you can come by to wish her mazel tov! may you find your bashert very soon with lotsa clarity. and dont worry your friend still likes you and thinks about you ! but u must remember that she isnnt doing anythong on purpose or that she is a user.. being married does take up some of your time.. imagine yourself being married..(iyh very soon..say amen) its hard to find time to call your friends..now pick up the phone and call your friend just to say hello!

  23. and friends do not slap you in the face once they are married you just have to understand that they are busy. call ur friend and tell her.. “i understand taht you are busy but callme sometimes just to say hello..”

  24. I can really sympathize with your pain – it is an awful position to be in – a) your friend (best on and down) has kind of moved on, b) you are still single c) you are still single d) you are still single – that is really the problem – your life hasn’t changed one bit – whereas her life has changed totally, and in the yeshiva world, in the 1 hour that her husband comes between afternoon and night seder, she has a lot of things to do, and there really isn’t tons of time to discuss shidduchim – although I can tell you – that most young couples really do try to redd you shidduchim – Unfortunately, it is not so easy to push a shidduch – No matter how your friend raves about you, her husband is going to the boy and saying, well, my wife says, she is the greatest – he doesn’t have pull with his mother, and he may be saying no, and your friend can’t really tell you the details, and is still hoping that her husband will keep working on it…..Don’t take it personally, you will get there iy’h and realize the challenges, and may Hashem help you be engaged and married really quickly.

  25. i agree 100% with thwriter.

    its only after the wife is pregnant and the husband is in night seder or out at shiur or anywhere that the wife feels lonely and decides to make that 2 minute “fake” phonecall to a long lost friend just so she doeant feel “alone”. its disgusting of people.

    maybe this is why there is what people call “a shiduch crisis”???!!!

  26. Dear dear friend,
    I am one who can understand you, being that im in the same sitution as you! I really feel for you and want to add 2 points.

    1-Yes, we all know that marriage is a new stage in life, and that people need to get settled. However, we are focusing on the single’s point of view. There are those married friends who fall off the face of this earth for 5 months, and then call you suddenly. Many times, so much has happeneed since, that you are no longer the same comforable with each other,and the friendship wears off. It is sad, but it’s reality.
    Try to find other single friends, and make new friendships. These friends can relate to you, and may become life long friends!

    2-To all married friends, -once you do call, please don’t only talk about your mother in law and your shaitels! yes , we singles do want to hear, but we do also want to tell u what’s going on in our lives too! i can’t even count the amount of times i have called married friends, and spoke to them for 10 minutes (while their husband was in maariv)with out getting a word in edgewise????

    then, they call me sometimes and say ” i heard you are dating so and so… or , i heard you are going to Blank, why didn’t you tell me?”
    and i answer them-when do u want me to tell you?
    in the 2 minute conversations we have? i never speak to u!

    I think this is a Middos issue, because i do have some kind considerate friends, who do call and ask how im doing.-But, they are far and few between.

    Like i said, yes, marriage is a big adjustment,but even if you don’t have time to call, go over to your friends by Simchos and talk to them there. Don’t ignore them, and don’t use them, by only calling when you need rides!!!

    May hashem help u find your bashert B’karov, with peace, ease and clarity!

  27. pashutah yid- well said.

    things are always rough, and with a bit of seichel, people can find ways to show others they care!

  28. one more point- even if your husband really doesn’t know anyone, or if he is not the type to redt shidduchim to your friends, at least YOU should tell your friend that you are thinking about her, and davening for her!

    Telling her in a nice way, not in a way that makes her into a nebach,that you are daveining for her, will make her feel like you feel for her!

  29. To the writer of this letter: Trust me when I tell you that you do not have the slightest clue as to what it means for a girl to get married. I greatly applaud “The Queen of Persia” (post 16) for her amazing “dive in the pool” mashal – it very nicely and succinctly captures the essence of the astronomic change in a girl’s life when she goes from being a single girl to a married woman.

    Perhaps the following question will help you to realize that “there is obviously something that you are missing”: Do you really think that the overwhelming majority of your friends are not-nice people? Do you truly believe that girls that you thought had such good middos are now exposed for the louts that they really are?

    So, let’s go over the facts. Fact # 1 – You truly believed (before they got married) that the majority of your friends are nice, sweet girls that have good middos. Fact # 2 – The overwhelming majority of the aformentioned girls are basically ignoring you after they got married, and only a sparse few have really kept in touch.

    So..you have two options to choose from as possible solutions to this seeming contradiction. Option 1 – you were mistaken about the majority of your friends; really they are “lousy good for nothings” and the truly good ones are the massive exception to the rule. Option 2 – you were not mistaken about your friends. Really they are the good, kind people that you knew them to be and it is just that the “dive in the pool” of marriage literally is barring them from just about anything else (yes, even a two minute phone call!) and those that are able to keep in touch are the massive exception to the rule.

    B’tzedek tishpot es amisecha. Now choose.

  30. dear pained girl,
    I understand you’re hurt. I felt the same way till i got married. Marriage is a HUGE adjustment. It is very normal for them to feel overwhelmed. They CAN’T think of you right now. Please try to understand them too.

  31. First I would like to wish you lots of hatzlacha in finding your right Shidduch.
    The main thing is to be mechazek yourself with Emunah & Bitachon knowing that every thing is in the hands of Hashem & only he can & will help you.
    My wife & I were b”h successful in making a few shidduchim.Perhaps you can get my e-mail from the Editor of this site & maybe we can help you find a shidduch
    Brucha v’hatzlacha

  32. I feel very sorry for this writer… but not for the reasons for which she is looking for sympathy. I feel sorry that she has such bitterness & jealousy raging deep inside her. And I feel sorry that the only way she can think of to fix that is to air the problems she has in her personal relationships on the world wide web.

    Dear Frustrated and Pained,

    It is not, as cantoresq said earlier [you beat me to it!] a disease to be single. You are waiting to be cured, Miss Frustrated & Pained! And it is that which pains me. You have to LIVE and enjoy this time in your life [marriage brings so many responsibilities – take this time to relax :)] until you move on to the next stage. And yes, your married friend has new stresses in her life [i.e. cooking chicken] & that is what’s on her mind. If you want to speak to her, expect some discussion about suppers! And about wigs, too, miss freezer! And hey, if she didn’t talk to you about topics that are relevant to her new stage, you’d feel even worse – ‘Just because I’m single, she’s afraid to speak to me about anything connected to married life?’

    I’d strongly suggest that you have a discussion with your friend & let her know how you feel. That’ll do the trick, better than nasty comments from the readers of YW.

    Wishing everyone, marrieds & singles [especially Miss F&P], much happiness and all the best.

  33. I said the exact same thing that “I wouldn’t be like that when I got married”. I was never upset at my friends for being distant after they got married, but I decided that I wouldn’t be like that. That I would make the time to call them, and I would even hang out with them sometimes. I’m only married a couple of months, but I’d like to just say that it isn’t so simple.

    I’m not trying to take away from your pain or frustration. I understand how difficult it is, but please just try to give them some time…

  34. i hear your pain and frustration, it’s something alot of us face. but from someone on the other side i’ll tell you that my wife and i where the first of our friends to get married and our friends were the ones who kept their distance and we felt strange but we had each other and over the next years as they started getting married things fell back into place our friends changed our surroundings and even family situations but it’s all part of Hashem’s plan to make you who you’ll eventually be. We did’nt have children for 5 years after we were married but that’s from above while all our other friends who married later on in life had already had 2 or 3 children yes your hurt but either speak up about it to your friends or keep on the side lines and let the game go on. you’ll eventually be part of the game and may your pain be turned to joy and happiness speedily Amen!

  35. It sounds by your disappointment that you felt pretty close to this girl before she got married and that she wasn’t just a girl that you happened to see every day so you talked a lot. If that’s the case it has to be painful. I think the fact that some friends dont read shidduchim is really the part that hurts the most. If they dont have time to shoot the breeze thats one thing but something that is so important to you, they would find the time to give it thought. I don’t think that it means that she is not your friend, there are many people out there that have the greatest intentions and are really really nice but they are oblivious to certain aspects of thinking about other people. Maybe some people were brought up that doing chesid doesn’t require time, like giving money to tzedaka. I find it hard to believe that a couple married for a year or two dont have a half hour (or even 10 miutes) a week to sit down and just think. since we are young and single when we learn about aspects of chesed we never really discuss during those years about the mitzva of setting up shidduchim and its never ingrained in us to give it thought. It is most prominent by young men and women that married right away. But not surprisingly you find it by those who had to spend difficult years waiting for their zivug.
    Now those of you who answered that she shouldn’t “act” upset because it’s not attractive should realize that she is not signing her name and that by saying what she really feels hopefully will get people to focus about it more. In the yeshiva velt there really is so much focus on getting married and then they also expect that when one is having difficulty with finding their bashert they should act as if nothing bothers them.
    I too have heard my friends say that their wives dont have any friends. I also have a hard time believing that. It doesn’t have to be an exact match to show the person that you’re trying, so long as you can accept a “no” and as long as the person won’t get insulted by whats being read to them.

  36. To the letter writer: You are too young to sound like this. I had a friend who would go on this way about other girls who had gotten married and didn’t “make an effort”. After she lost contact with those girls, she managed to pick a fight with almost every other friend she had, even the ones who did keep in touch. And every fight boiled down to a lack of consideration for her feelings that she was still single. If you didn’t get her info for a shidduch at the drop of the hat (bec. the baby was crying) she’d be livid and not talk to you for days. If we’d suggest a shidduch that she percieved less than perfect, that was cause for more anger. And, by the way, do you think the single guys in BMG are lined up every morning for viewings? Take a step back and ask yourself if you are projecting your frustration at being single on your friends’ wedded bliss. Your anger and resentment will only intensify as you get older, and let me tell you that is a highly unattractive feature in a single young woman.

  37. I am not in your situatuation so this might be totally off the wall but its my thinking that when a girl gets married and has children (suc as in this case) and still keeps in contact with her friends, her husband will have a greater opinion for his wife since he sees the kavod she shows for others and will obviously regard him with the same. in addition just keep in mind that Hashem is a good (read:very good) listener and is available 24/7! May you (and everyone else looking for their basherte) be zoche to find them Bimheirah!

  38. Freezer #34- I am not a professional Shadchan & I b”h have a busy schedule however if I can help you as well I will be more than glad to do so.

  39. I think the points of the letter writer are valid. Of course there are two sides, and so there is an explantion (set forth in the above posts) for why sometimes married friends seem to ignore single ones, but, still, I think that it behooves us, the married people to be extra extra extra extra sensitive to the feelings of singles. If someone is in pain, then they are in pain, and the right thing to do is to try to alleviate it.

  40. There are a lot of good points that the writer brings up. But, I think the most important one is about her friend & husband not assisting in shidduchim. There is no more important resource in shidduchim more than young married couples. She knows the girls, he knows the guys… Every young couple can redd a shidduch. They can help make a difference. It may be hard, but, the letter writer is right – don’y forget that you were also in the same boat not long ago.

  41. “Be’asher HU ( hee) shum”
    This letter is being written by someone with much pain and hurt. Lets be sympethetic to her.

  42. Wow, here comes another one. I love to hear this from someone as young as you, just 21 and already you have all this experience about something we all call life. Just remember that’s life it’s like a wheel one comes and the other goes.
    In any event here is the same story in my experience:

    Dear Friends,

    I am a married man aged 29, who is still awaiting for my bashert (my wife actually) to get off the phone, while almost all of her friends are married, they somehow always find time to talk on the phone even now with 3 kids.

    To her (my wifes) friends: She happily went to all of your Simcha’s, your Lechaim’s, Vort’s, wedding’s from beginning to end, and helped out in all your wedding preparations, including grounding me for the 4-5 hours at home to watch the kids which meant calling over my Chavrusa to learn night seder at home, as well as figuring out how to change a dipper and prop a bottle, while she was attending your simchas.

    The minute the wedding is over, you understand why she didn’t have time before hand to help much, and that what she actually did happily was not that easy to do.

    You understand she doesn’t have as much time for her as you used to, but all I am (the husband) asking is for the 2 minute phone call, not be just when I come home from Kollel/Work.

    She had a baby 6 months ago, and you called her to wish her Mazel Tov. She did have the decency to invite you over for a few minutes to see her little one, but lacked the energy to take on guests. Neither would I let her do that for the same reason. I am trying to be Don Lekaf Zchus, you as a friend just need someone to call every so often, but it is so painful, that every day it happens when my wife needs to attend to something, during supper or when she is busy with the kids. You all chipped in for a present for her, for her wedding, and when you call her to chip in for someone else, she is complaining because to run a house with rent/utilities and what not means an ever declining bank account and ever increasing Credit card bill. Yes you did pay for me. But you have got no clue what it means to live on a Kollel budget – well, you are not millionaires either, but you managed to pay the $10.00 while we didn’t.

    Another thing is that when you do finally get to speak to her, you are busy interrupting her every minute while she is doing the chicken as you speak to her. People like to feel important, like they have your undivided attention, and so does that poor chicken in that pot, it needs a womans attention or else the family wont have what to eat. if she is cooking, that is not a good time to be speaking to you so you should call her when she is not cooking, not working not busy with the laundry, not busy with her husband, not busy with her kids. I guess thats only on Shabboss after age 60.

    Last but not least: Before she got married, she was busy saying how she will “Redd” Shidduchim to you – and all the other single friends. The minute she got married, she changed her tune. No it’s ”I don’t know, my husband doesn’t know anyone.” I really don’t. Neither does she have the time, she would make the time if she would know where to start. But the real reason she said then that she would redd you shiduchim was because she was as immature then as you are now. Yes she knows how painful it is, but she ain’t a shadchan, she tries here and there, but it never yet worked out. When she says her husband doesn’t know anyone. It’s because I don’t. Even though I’m in BMG, with over 4,000,000 bochurim (BTW, the real number is a little over 1000, the rest are married) as far as I can see in the Bais Medrash where I sit (around 600 seats with around 150 being singles) theres not 1 boy out there for you. Here is the math, (remember most of the math is on what you said you want):
    5% of those bochurim are too chassidish for you.
    1% is really really chassidish (long payos).
    14% you went out with and they or you said no.
    20% is not that big into midos (tooo brisk or whatever).
    40% are not big enough Torahdige boys for you.
    So we got 30 bochurim left, I really don’t know those 30 bochurim.

    And when you ask her to ask me to push a shidduch? The response you get is either “my husband doesn’t feel comfortable”, no I really don’t. Or “my husband is shy”, I am. What happened to everything she said before she got married – how she would help all your friends – is that she tries, but life takes people to unexpected turns. Grow up it will happen to you as well. If she wasn’t planning on helping you, she wouldn’t have said anything to begin with!

    I can go on and on with story’s about how inconsiderate some (I write some, because there are a FEW select friends who are not like this) friends are to their married friends.

    I think i speak for many married men out there.

    A frustrated married husband that can’t understand why these pained girls in Shidduchim don’t understand that people can’t be there 24 hours for them like they used to before they got married.

  43. The writer and some of the people who left comments (I haven’t read them all yet) sound so angry and bitter towards married friends. Why do you think they are users?? Getting used to married life is also an adjustment. Also making Shidduchim is NOT EASY. It’s even said that it’s harder that “splitting the sea” – Kriyas Yam Suf. By the way, to the writer, don’t think I’m speaking this way because I’m one of those who got married at 18. Quite the opposite. I was in your position too. In fact I was a few years older than you! All my friends got married way before I did. Some tried to set me up, others didn’t. Like you, I wondered why I didn’t get “redd” more shidduchim. After all, their husbands must know plenty of guys. Well, I guess it just doesn’t work that way. And yes, quite a few of them didn’t keep in touch as often or at all, but I never thought of them as having used me. Did it hurt? Sure. Even after you’re marrried, people do things to hurt you. People move away and don’t keep in touch etc. etc. Anyway, Baruch Ha-Shem, one day a friend who had moved to another state called me up. She had someone in mind for me. This was also someone I didn’t keep in touch with too often. To make a long story short, we are now married almost 18 years (next month IY”H) and B”H have 3 wonderful teenagers. My husband and I are always trying to set people up. My children even try to think of Shiduchim. Unfortunately we have lists of girls and very few, if any, boys!!!! Who knows why? But I want to give you some Chizuk – don’t despair. I can’t promise you anything – it’s all in the hands of Ha-Shem. Just don’t lose faith. I was also at a point of despair -I used to think “It will never happen” There’s a saying “Always a bridesmaid – never a bride” But that is not the Torah way of thinking. Chas V’shalom we should think like that. Daven, daven, daven. And let people know you’re interested (I’m sure you already do). You just never know where it might come from. I wish you much Hatzlacha and I hope the next time you write, you will tell everyone that you are engaged. Then post it on Only Simchas. I wish there were a way to get in touch with you. We could at least try to find someone but I know this is not the forum for that. So I will end here saying again HATZLACHA RABBA – MAY YOU FIND YOUR BASHERT VERY SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!

  44. Interesting to see this article on here -was just discussing this whole concept the other day …its soooo true . How many times have singles sworn not to 4get their single friends when they get married & then boom they get married & its like they really 4got what it was like to be single & dating for awhile-it becomes 2 separate entities now the single friends vs. married friends .
    Interestingly, some of my married friends are the ones that claim to us single friends that they feel “left out” such as when we have get togethers , or go on vacations… but if they really wanted to feel so part of our lives during the good fun times then how about being there with us through the hard difficult times as well ?
    BH I guess Im lucky that I do have a couple of married friends who have not 4gotten me & do call with suggestions frequently , but I also have “friends” like the letterwriter mentioned who seem 2 have 4gotten about us or when asked about a boy their husband may know take 4ever getting back ….
    Please dont 4get about us!
    Also just a reminder all of lifes challenges remind us that ultimately we really cant rely on anyone besides our Father in HEaven !

  45. To #7 Mr. Beeps,
    Whether you are correct in your assumption or not that the writer of this letter should give her friend space or not…With all due respect, WHERE IS YOUR HEART?!! To be quite honest, a yid with a beating heart DOES NOT react that way to someone who is obviously hurting. What kind of answer is that? Please tell me that you are not someone in Yeshiva training or hoping to be a Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, Rebbe, Maggid Shiur or Mashgiach! I’m sorry, your reaction can not be so mean. Somehow, if this was your daughter, sister or cousin, I think you’d be singing a different tune. There are some good Mussar seforim you might want to fit into your busy schedule. Hatzlacha Rabbah.

  46. I agree that some people who wrote that being single is looked at as “a disease.”

    As far as the letter writer is concerned, I agree with the other comments that said that this is when you learn who your REAL friends are.
    It’s a sad reality. I certainly empathize with the young lady who wrote this letter.

  47. even though your friends are married they should spend their time with you and not who ever they married.
    WRONG!!!!
    think about what you are saying. u don’t come first, they do

  48. I think that the writer of comment 44, “Yishtabach shimo” is incredibly perceptive and must be a tremendous Ba’al Mussar to be able to probe and teitch up the situation, uncovering and examining so many nuances.

  49. First of all… how dare anyone say that a married friend is someone with bad midos because she cant keep in touch! No shaiches! ok, maybe some happen to not have good midos but take a deep breath and think of the big picure for a second. IT IS HARD for you because you feel lonely and forgotten about. Well, the grass is always greener on the other side. Think how HARD IT IS FOR HER to be overwhelmed with her new change in life, busy busy busy and so many friends ready to kill her because she “forgot” abt them. And if she has some time to think and call someone.. I hate to break it to u but although she is your friend se may also have many others and may not kno where to start. So if it is you she calls then the others will be thinking she is slapping them!

    I always wondered why Hashem made us so self-cemtered… i am talking to myself. Its all abt me. Bishvili nivra Haolam, right?? When I am driving why are the cars going so slow? dont they know I am in a rush?! And when I am trying to pull into a tight parking spot why cant the other cars take a minute and chill out and stop honking so i can pull in in peace and why why why me me me?!?!

    Rabbosai- thats life. We need to do our thing yet become above teva and see the sitch from the bigger approach. Like when we fly over a city and see it all in front of our eyes.

    Married friends… you are busy, and you are justified. BUT please remember your single days. Think of how much it will mean to your friends to send a quick txt msg saying “Hi I miss you. I never forget abt you!” or hows your day etc. Even to tell your babies that your friend is tante rivky or tante whatever her name is. It really really makes your friends that are lonely feel a part of your life and your family.

    Single girls, dan l’kaf zchus. Many kalla teachers or Rabbanim warn the kallas about too much connection in the beginning with single friends. especially best friends. i dont necessarily agree tho I have heard that many Rabbanim say it can be a danger to the marriage b/c the husband may feel that your friend is more imp to you than him. Also it can be uncomfortable for your friend’s husband. He really does not want to be a around his wife’s friends and he doesnt feel comfortable with making shidduchim. Many guys dont. especially since they b’etzem dont know the girls.

    Yet, i must say I feel for you! The pain of a single girl is TREMENDOUS! (tho every stage in life has its tremendous nisyonos even after you get married) the older you get the less friends you have around and the sadder and more lonely you feel. You feel like an alte kaker even b4 you are “old” (tho in a way you are very lucky because you probably have had a taste of cheirus where they have not as much as you) You may even feel like a failure b/c for goodness sake why is it so hard for you to get married!! I bet you even daven your heart off and feel like whats the point!! But keep doing it and your friends probably are also even if they dont tell you. Believe me they want you to get married also in their hearts.

    I’ll give you some advice- (take it or leave it!) DONT ALLOW YOURSELF TO GET DEPRESSED!!!! The Satan is sly and will eat at you like a cavity that destroys a tooth to the root!! If you need a dentist get one. Search for something or someone to turn to for help or shoulder to cry on before you fall in the rut. Once you fall deep in you will continue to feel bad for yourself and make things worse and become negative and bitter. negative and bitter girls make miserable wives esoecially cuz prince charming aint gonna sweep you off your feet and live happily ever after!!!

    I once heard that a single girl that was older managed to stay positive b/c she spent all her time thinking… Hashem is judging me for who I am and not for who my husband will be! Its a great time to find friends old or new to learn mussar with or go to shiurim or take a walk with. But I BEG YOU dont fall because of it. Remember what you have good and cry sometimes if you need to. But if you trust and believe that there can be a Yeshua then you have hope!

    I daven for you and for everybody, yes even tho I dont know you. I beg Hashem in Shma Koleinu to send all singles their bashert and send all ppl the yeshua they need and help them overcome their challenges. I hope you will daven for everyone too! Hamispallel b’ad chaveiro…. Hashem will answer you first!

  50. I’m going to agree with the sentiments. The feeling of being shut out, of close friends who you schmoozed till 4am suddenly not being able to return a text, just aggravated the underlying feeling of there being some magical married club that you’re just locked out of. Nevermind that obnoxious Yeshiva guy who stole your friend- and he’s only know her for what? Six months? And you’ve known since you were two. No fair. True.

    But it really is true. Specifically during the first few months, many married couples fall off of the radar. There’s so much going on which- forgive the cliche – that you can’t understand in creating a relationship that often there’s nothing left. Nevermind setting up a home and figuring out which way is up. It passes. Give it time. And keep at it. Make it clear that your relationship is a priority. And keep your chin up- she’s not better or superior then you or on a pedestal. She just found her Bashert earlier.

    But frienships don’t have to end- and foolish is the married girl/boy who doesn’t believe they still need them. But now you’ve got to be the go getter. Be open. It can’t be the same way practically, but the relationship can always be there. Eventually the dust settles. Call. Be open about what you feel. Maybe make a weekly phonecall, or find out when her husband goes to nightseder/shiur/Iran and ask if you can help with babysitting/laundry/target practice.

    A word about Lakewood. There are 5000 males there, yes. But 4000 of them are not really in the parsha, unless we matir cherem d’rabbenu gershon. So you’re left with a 1000. At least 200 are engaged (figure 70% get engaged within there first year in Lakewood). But her husband learns with a Chaburah of mainly married guys, and the few bachurim in the back- well, three are already engaged, and the other five, actually could not be for you (besides, one is looking for a house car and a boat- and that’s just to go out). And to redt a shidduch, at least for most of us, you have to be good friends w/someone. Most of his close friends are married, too. No one knows every Bachur in Lakewood. The big Lakewood Shadchanim stalk out guys names on there Tefillin bags.

    WARNING: Cliche ahead.

    IY”H you too will walk under the chuppah, and you too will wake up six months later and say “I think I existed before I was married, but it’s all really fuzzy.”

  51. By the way…

    When your married friends do land or surface (depending if they are in the air or under water) and they do call you or dont accept them back.
    I have discovered a very beautiful policy that I know some ppl have… text your marry friends hi now and then and tell them you are there if they need you… tell them you know they are busy and when they want to call you youre not upset at them for flying or swimming till they got back on their feet.

    Dont lose your friends when they come back to you… or YOU are the one guilty of cutting off the relationship! I know one girl who called her friend 7 months after marriage and the first thing she said was “I landed! Whats up!”

    And one more thing. I can say by looking at my parents generation that even the people that my parents lost touch with, when they see hear abt or bump into me or my parents or family members they reunite as if they never lost connection. You dont have to SPEAK ON THE PHONE every day to think abt your friend. just dont forget them in your heart and once in a while pop in eachothers faces with a hug or a treat!

  52. Miss, I do understand your feelings and I have been through it myself. B’H, I ddid get married at 22, and when I did get married I finally understood all those newly married friends. It is such a HUGE adjustment, you can’t understand it till you’re in the situation. But the bottom of the line is you have to have seichel and think what your single friends need and want to hear (and what they don’t want to hear – I’m sooo busy…I daven for you all day…blah blah blah) Sensitivity is the key and understanding is important for all those who are still single. You’ll get there too one day and understand. Of course marriage is beautiful, but there are daily stresses too, usually which are magnified more than stresses of a single person, because you’re always dealing with a spouse and a family. anyways I”YH by you!

  53. As much as a new marriage is an adjustment and overwelming there is still no excuse for this!! you can still find 5 minutes in a day to call or email your friends to see how are they’re doing- technology todays days is a great thing. what about when you’re at work or if your husband is working late or out davening? its just a good excuse to make yourself feel important that you are married and SOOOO busy.
    My situation is a little bit different, I actually got married one of the first in my class and I made sure to keep in touch with my freinds no matter how busy I was- my husband even encouraged me to call my freinds. Some of my freinds who I kept in touch with while I was married completeley ignored me after THEY got married. At that point I realized that they were not my real freinds -especially since I was in the marriage situation before them and I knew that making time for freinds WAS possible.

    In addition, any husband who gets upset that their wife is taking five minutes of their alone time to call a freind or family member has a really serious problem and shoud seek professional help!!! The world does not evelove around you!!

    I wish you much hatzlocha and I hope you find your bashert and better frinds really soon!!!

  54. Friends who bail on you stink. But realize also that time really does get spent differently at different stages of our lives. When I was single, I could get by on six hours of sleep. Now, I cannot. And I would spend tons of hours on the phone each night. Now, I’m lucky to find time to pay bills.

    At 21 you should not be worrying about getting married. When you’re 31, you may worry. But only a little, and then stop.

    “All that is created is beautiful in its time.” Koheles is a wonderful thing to internalize. Marriage happens at different times for different people. Until it wanders in for you, enjoy the freedom of being unattached, and without obligations: take a pottery class; pick up “last minute” tickets to the symphony; plan a day trip with friends and act plain silly; enjoy life, and stop worrying about things you cannot control.

  55. Wow, do i understand and can I empathize. It is true, my friends and I, we go out at the same time, we talk about our dating stories, you even tell me that you are unofficially engaged, two weeks before its official. I break it off with the guy I am going out with, but its still exciting to be in your loop. Youre a kalla, you tell me every package your chosson sends you, and I her about every cute and shticky poem you write, or care package you send. I go with you to buy outfits to wear to your future in-laws for shabbos, I see your sheitels, I’m with you the day of your wedding like nothing has changed. Sure, you get ditzy whenever you mention your chosson, but at least I get to be a part of your simcha. The night of your wedding we dance away, and thats the last time I see or hear for you for the next 3 to 4 months. I understand… You’re starting a new life with a new person. You need your space. You need your privacy. You need that time to build a relationship on your own. I’m not saying that you are wrong. It’s not wrong at all. It’s how it should be. I’m just saying that I am hurt. I’m saying its hard for me. I know I’m not old, I’m only 22. And I know people say, “you’re so young! there are girls 25 and older who are still single.”, But do you think that makes me more optimistic? Does that sound more encouraging! I feel left behind… I feel like everyone is starting their life and leaving me craving a husband and family of my own. I’m so happy for the people who have… And I only want the best for them. I just feel like a have-not. It’s definitely possible that your husband doesn’t know anyone… But could you try to make an effort anyway. Could you try to remember how it feels to be waiting for the right one to come along, and it could come along next week, or it could come in 7 years- Because you never really know. I don’t need a lot of your time and attention, and I know that when your husband is home its not the time to be shmoozing with friends, but could you make some time to talk to me. And, rather then asking me what I am doing next year, can you wish for me that before next year I will be married and building a bayis of my own, instead of being happy that I will be somewhere else, and you won’t feel an achrayis to set me up because it will be on someone else’s head. I know that you aren’t doing anything wrong, and I don’t think I am doing anything wrong, I’m sure its not easy being in your shoes, I’m just letting you know that it’s not easy being in my shoes, and it’s not easy being happy for you all the time. And even though life is not a race, I cry and daven that I will be able to catch up one day even though I don’t know when that day will be. I daven for you that you should have a happy life and marriage, and children who are yirei shamayim. Can you please just have me in mind and keep me in your tefillos? I know I ask for more, but I guess that is the most effective thing that I could ask for.

  56. How can we jump on this girl this way? Did anyone forget the time their friends were married, and they were single? You can’t lecture someone that is hurt and in pain.
    Writing here was obviously a desperate measure. Is it necessary to lecture her in this way? Does anyone think they may be hurting her more?
    I’m single, age 20, and I don’t talk to my friends in their early marriages. I understand. But, sometimes loneliness can overcome a girl. Its one thing to write a reply to an article, but when someone hurts try to be sensitive before you lecture.

  57. I’m 20 and I can really understand how you feel. My best friend got married about a year and a half ago! It definitely took a lot of time to adjust, but there is hope!!! Yes, I have to admit, it was very hard for the first couple of months; it was akward. When the situation in someone’s life changes, the dynamics of your relationship changes as well, and it takes time to get used to the change.
    I was very open about it with my friend. I once left her message on her cell phone, not to complain, rather just to say how much I care about HER and eventhough we haven’t spoken in a while, I think about her and daven for her all the time. (You’re probably getting confused in my story right now, yes, I said this to my married friend.) I sincerely believe in “Kamayim hapanim lapanim kein lev haadam l’adam.” She texted me back a few days later that she thinks of me all the time, she just feels very funny when we’re on the phone. It may not necessarily be that “they’re so busy, they don’t have time for you….” They think about you very often, but it’s just as hard for them to get used to the new dynamics of the relationship with you.
    Keep letting your married friend know how much you think about HER, how excited you are for her new baby, being excited about her baby’s milestones… and b’ezras Hashem, she will reciprocate.
    And when you feel hurt inside and can’t talk to your friend, talk to Hashem like He is your best Friend because He is! It’s okay to cry to Him when you feel hurt…
    I wish you much Hatzlacha and I hope this sheds some light on the situation.
    And B’Ezras Hashem I hope you find your zivug hagun b’karov, along with everyone else in klal yisroel who are waiting for their bashert!

  58. #3, yenta4life, this whole article was worth it if you are serious about what you wrote. Kol Hakavod and thank you, on behalf of all singles!

    #61shkoyach, thanks for your post.

    #52 typish, you have serious issues, and a major lack of sensitivity in feeling somebody, or I should say, many singles pain. It’s unbelievable and mind-boggling, how a person could be so thoughtless. I have have loads to say to you, but just not enough space.

  59. First, may you be zoche to meet your zivug, bikarov, and have a long happy and healthy life with him and your beautiful family together, with osher vi’Osher.

    re: “Why is it, that the minute your wedding is over, our friendship is over?? …all i get is a slap in the face?”

    I don’t believe a woman who not yet married can understand the many changes that come with marriage. Therefore, lacking that perspective, these issues can bring on much unnecessary hurt.

    The friendship is not necessarily over, though since there are a number of factors that have changed since she got married, it is not a slap in the face that you can’t meet together like you used to. I think hakaras hatov should not be neglected, where applicable, but if it helps you, know that it is a profound difference from before marriage to after.

    re: “all I’m asking is for a two minute phone call, an email, a text – just to let me know that you are thinking about me.”

    I think if your average 20 year old had the time-management skills of a CEO of a large corporation, you would have gotten that 2 minute call, or more, but, regardless, it may be difficult for her to “relate” to you like she used to, which makes it awkward for her to even approach you, since she, herself, doesn’t know how to handle it because SHE has changed, not because you are not yet married or you “wouldn’t understand” or that she is now “better” than you – it’s simply her private emotional sorting-out that needs to be done after embarking on the life-altering event of marriage.

    re: “You had a baby 6 months ago, and I called you to wish you Mazel Tov. Did you not have the decency to invite me over for a few minutes to see your little one?”

    Personally, I’d think this would make you feel badly – to go on about how cute her baby is and you should see her and all that, when you are still looking for your zivug and not YET up to that stage. So I think there is room for limud zichus on this one, too. In addition, being a (new) parent is rather overwhelming for many people, and adds a new dynamic to the marriage and so, again, I think there is what to be dan likav zichus here, as well, though it’s obviously more easily said than done and that doesn’t mean that one can’t be in contact with one’s old friends here, either.

    re: “Another thing is that when I do finally get to speak to you, you are busy interrupting every minute with tidbits about the chicken you are making as you speak to me.”

    While your portrayal makes this sound insensitive and it may be, to me it conveys that she’s trying to have you relate to her by talking to you about what’s important to her – cooking a good tasty meal so she gets complimented on it and feels good about herself and her cooking skills. Interrupting, though, is obviously impolite, though it is, sometimes, the way we conduct conversations, as in “Oh, you have to hear this..” – certain people may appreciate such interruptions, while others may not. Maybe she feels you would.

    re: “Do you know how painful that is for a single girl to hear? What do you mean your husband doesn’t know anyone?”

    I sympathize with the pain that line must cause, but I think it’s asking a lot of a 19 year old girl who, after actually getting married and realizing what a profound difference married life is over her previous lifestyle as a single, is probably a little more educated now, and is looking out for your own good and not just sending any guy your way, but would only recommend one she thinks would be good for you, and if no one in her husband’s chevra (from what she can understand from his descriptions of his friends, not her going out bowling with them, obviously) seems in her eyes to be suitable for you, maybe she’s doing you a favor.

    re: “What happened to everything you said before you got married – how you would help all your friends? If you weren’t planning on helping them, you shouldn’t have said anything to begin with!”

    Maybe they were planning on helping out, but due to the dynamics of their marriages, or other possible factors, don’t feel comfortable doing so. Maybe she meant well when she said before her marriage that she would, but realized afterwards that it wasn’t possible. Maybe she’s still learning how to “read” her husband, and isn’t able to glean anything useful from it. I think unless she says otherwise, that it would makes sense to assume that she means to help you, but for whatever reason, she can’t.

    I would close by saying Harbei Shiluchim LaMakom, and yishuas Hashem kiheref Ayin – if your friend’s husband’s best friend is your bashert, then BE”H you’ll get to date him through some other connection even without your friend’s assist – it’s all in Hashem’s hands ultimately, even though we should do our part to help our friends, where possible.

  60. cut the whining and complaining. YOU need attention? Everyone needs attention. Your friends are not trying to insult you but your taking them the wrong way and you sound very insecure.

    Many times a newly married couple are invited to their friends simchas and everyone expects us to run around and live like phony hollywood people.

    married life changes people for the good but single people look at this like we are evil people.

    When you get married YOU will realize that life is NOT ABOUT YOU but getting to know ones spouse and caring about your spouse and THEN others.

    As for the phone calls and being rude on the phone-your 100% right and we should NOT be answering phones and talking baout chicken etc.

    What is really rude and many of us are guilty of it is telling the person on the other line -HOLD ON I HAVE A CLICK……. People who keep on saying they got a click are clecks and this shows people they are not listeing to one word you have to say.

    The world is a crazy place and welcome to the real world sister!

    Thanks for your letter and we got the point but you should have wrote us forst and not yeshiva world and make fools out of us.

    We only recieved 300 phone calls from friends and family asking is the letter is about us.

  61. #52, your letter shows extreme unsesitivity on your part! how can you compare the emotions of a girl/woman , to that of your own??
    Men and Woman have different needs, and this letter was written by a girl…. you obviously see things differently. Maybe you should post your own letter, and let all the MEN respond.

  62. to #56 Zeit Bisimcha…. you have a slight misconception that may have impaired your judgement of me… I am a newly married GIRL, age 21, who has a few friends who do not stop driving me CRAZY about how little i speak to them, and how i don’t have time for them, and that i am not interested in them…. blah, blah, blah. they are really being selfish, self-centered, and downright NEEDY. A class should be given to single girls whose friends are getting married. They should be taught some midos and basic consideration. Yes, Bh, we got married, but did it ever occur to you, dear friends, that marriage is a HUGE, HUGE, hUGE adjustment. It is such a HUGE change, and it things crop up that are really difficult to contend with. And it is inappropiate and out of place for us to discuss these sort of things with you. While you may not know details, or anything at all, you can be considerate in your judgment of us married girls. i am not trying to be mean, just to let these wonderful single friends know how one-track minded they are being. Zeit Bisimcha, i would like to hear a response from you on this.

  63. This is the sad reality of life. Once someone graduates a nisoyon, it’s very difficult to really feel in their friends’ pain who are still suffering. Only a very select few will really still remember their old pain and try to help those still in the matzav. Ppl don’t mean bad but once someone is already on to the next stage and busy adjusting to that new parsha, they may not even want to associate with all that old pain bec might bring back bad memories. They’re so happy to finally be part of the new club, they don’t want to be busy with old friends.
    I don’t know what to tell you other than find friends who CAN relate to you and are still in the same situation and stick to those for now. Hopefully, one day, you and your friend will come around and be back on the same page.
    Hatzlacha!

  64. There are many newly married couples that do find the time to talk to and set up thier friends. Do they have time and the others do not?Its like saying that men who don’t learn every day just dont have the time that men who do learn every day have.

  65. to beeps (74)dont agree with you at all. we are never to busy to do a chesed w/ s/o. I missed the wedding of a friend who helped me very much on the day of MY wedding bec it fell during my shev brachos, and never forgave myself. couldnt i have just stopped in for a second? i was very ‘busy’ but for things we want to do we are somehow not busy anymore. we need to WANT VERY MUCH TO DO CHESSED and then WE WILL FIND the time. even NEEDY people have needs! many needs!

  66. I understand your hurt feelings and hope that you will find your bashert very soon! I would like to tell you my story. I was almost 24 years old when I found my bashert (13 years ago).
    Most of my friend were married and I had bought all of them gifts and helped them with many things. After each one got married I felt as though I lost another friend. It hurt me deeply -as it does you because as a single girl I was unable to understand this. After I B”H got married I thought that I would be different – but guess what – I wasnt!!!! Why, you ask? Because getting married and moving to Lakewood, traveling to Manhattan everyday, trying to get to know your husband, running a house and learning to live with the opposite sex takes lots of time, patients and understanding. By the time I arrived home a 7:00PM (after leaving at 6:30AM) I needed to get my strength to be a good wife and did not even entertain calling a friend. This is just my story but everyone has their own. Shanah rishona is beatiful but very demanding and you MUST give them their space. I hope that you are Zocheh to really understand what I am trying to say very soon!

  67. Beeps & Refeal613: The morning after my second sheva brochas, my best friend made a bris at 6:30 am. Yes, I was totally zonked, but I attended the bris because he was my best friend.

    However, that being said, I do understand how single friends are very needy. When my child was first born and VERY colicky and cranky, we made it a habit to sleep when the baby sleeps. For instance, we changed the schedule when we eat the shabbas seudah. The baby used to sleep from 11-2, so we went to sleep then and after he was awake we ate the shabbos seudah. This was the only way to keep our sanity from a crying infant. My wife invited here single friends over and we were considerate to adjust the baby’s schedule so we can have shabbos guests. At 2:00PM when we put the child to sleep, I informed my wife I will be taking a nap because the baby is asleep and we both need our rest. The single friend did not leave, even after I loudly stated that we need to sleep because the baby is sleeping and this is our ONLY time to recoup. She, however, “needed” to talk to my wife to catch up on the good old days. Single people do need to realize that the “good old days” are over. There are a lot of new responsibilities that a newly wed encounters. In addition, as much as we love the person, we can not “hang” out when we feel like it. Also, by constantly complaining about your single status, you make it feel like the married person did something wrong for getting married. We understand the frustration, but can’t we talk about some happy times in our life too? Yes, making chicken is exciting to someone who just started cooking. Instead of accusing the person of being selfish, start realizing that this person has new responsibilities, which includes making dinner. Instead of not talking to you, they are multi-tasking, cooking and talking to you. Would you rather they tell you that they have no time?

    The author also talks about how before marriage they tell them about setting them up for shiduchim. You need to realize that you are living in a fantasy world. Everyone would love to set everyone up with a shidduch. However, all the promises you make mean nothing once you are in the situation ( marriage) and realize all the connections you thought you might have, you don’t. Either your husband’s friends are married or not looking for a girl like you. If the friend had a guy in mind, of course she would set you up. The fact remains she does not. Move on! Find someone who has someone for you and stop harping on the past.

  68. To all those who are “giving mussar” to this young woman to have “pity” on her married friends:
    As someone who waited a few years for children, I can attest to being in a painful nisoyon. Perhaps we all need sensitivity, but at the end of the day, the young married woman is the one who’s living a happy life right now, whereas the unmarried one is hurting and waiting for a yeshua. So the married one should exercise more sensitivity and the unmarried one needs our sympathy.

  69. First of all… to all of you offering opinions about “you dont know what its like to be newly married, etc” EASE UP!!! and feel this girls pain.
    She’s not being selfish, she just truly doesn’t know what its like to be a newly-wed and would CLEARLY LOVE to know.

    And to the letter writer…
    I was in your position NUMEROUS times, as I watched my friends get married one by one… I probably could’ve written this letter myself. However, I noticed a pattern, after a friend got married, she basically dropped off the planet for about 3-6 months. Soon after, she’d start calling again… of course over the next couple of years it was shaky as they were tryign to establish themselves as married women and mothers, but things DO settle down.
    The ones who are truly your friends will come back, bec. even married women need friendship.
    In the meanwhile spend time with your single friends, and enjoy this time… give them a chance to settle, be SUPER supportive and the TRUE friends WILL be your friends.

    GOOD LUCK!!

  70. You’re all missing the point of this letter. All she’s asking for is a few minutes here and there. And when you give her a few minutes, make it feel like a few minutes. Be mechazek her.

  71. Kollelwife #81, to your comment “Perhaps we all need sensitivity, but at the end of the day, the young married woman is the one who’s living a happy life right now, whereas the unmarried one is hurting and waiting for a yeshua….”
    you’re really funny. If the girl was 26+, then yes, i understand, she may be HURTING. GET REAL. The kid is 21 years old, for crying out loud. she may really yearn to get married, but HURTING??? you make it sound like she’s been waiting a decade or more to find her bashert, with no success.

    and to Avremele #83- if only it were so simple. i can personally testify that no matter how much you give to these needy friends, they always hint to you that you are not giving them your undivided attention. DUH! bh, she has other distractions!!!

  72. Delibaretly– it’s not that i mind talking about wigs, but it doesn’t have to be the ONLY TOPIC!!

    BEEPs:EXCUSE ME- but i have a question for you- how do u know she is not hurting? how can you tell someone how to feel? that is what she is feeling right now, and YOU as a married friend should TRY to understand her side as much as SHE should try to understand your side. There has to be understanding on both sides.

    You wrote in post #74 that ” a class should be given on midos and consideration to all singles”
    well, maybe there should be a class given to the marrieds too!! for example-they can teach you how to hang up the phone politely when your husband walks in, as opposed to SLAMMING the phone down on your freind in middle of her sentence after muttering”husbands home. bye”

    You can choose not to speak or interact with your freinds, but don’t be shocked when in a few months u do land, for them to still be there for you.

    Good luck on your journey of life.

  73. I think this is a good reminder letter: once upon a time I experienced some of what she is experiencing. And when I got married (tho at a much older age) I promised myself I wouldn’t do that but still, I also did not keep up many of my friendships, and should have been better. I still struggle to do all the things I actually have said I would do, never mind the others that I know should happen.

    I am sorry some people are saying they won’t help you, but at least they are honest and not saying that they will, leaving you waiting for something that it not going to happen.

    To the other married folks, yes we all get busy, distracted, have too many responsibilities, but there is always Shabbos. At our home we make a point of using our Shabbas meals to try to stay in touch with folks, even if it includes inviting them to spend the night on our very plain couch (All we have available. We built in a curtain so they can have privacy at night.)
    Often I can see that it is not as much as they would like from us, but it has been what we were able to do. And oops, I think we have been doing even that less. I will try harder, with both the singles, and many of my senior citizen lady friends, who are also often in need of a call or a visit.
    Mind you it is NOT that I don’t care, not that I don’t want to.. I miss them too! But I have to make the time.
    Thank you for speaking up.

  74. FREEZER #85…. please enlighten me. why does a girl of 21 hurt? it’s not only because her friends are married, believe me. I was a bit apprehensive until i got married, seeing a lot of my friends getting married before me. but i wasn’t hurt. who use that strong word? HURTING? a girl of 21 should not be hurting. it’s not chas v’shalom like people are having babies and she is has not had one for years. bh she is young and ripe on the shidduch market.

    About the classes for married people on how to deal with single friends…. nice idea. though we married people werent the ones that brought up the issue. the single girl did and we are responding. If it was my forum to begin with, i would probably do a lot of venting how needy single friends become when you get married and they are still single. it’s difficult for everybody. this should be the hardest issue that the author should ever have to contend with.

    The bottom line is, i feel like she is just looking to COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN about a ma shehu. Deal with it, kid. and GROW UP. i am sure you have other friends in the same boat as u. stick to them and leave us newly marrieds alone for a bit while we get accustomed to our new life.

  75. #87- u ask why she is hurt. she is hurt that after she spent hours with you helping you in your wedding preps, u now basically ignore her.
    She feels like everyone else is going on with their life while she is still in one place.
    she is HURT that you don’t ask her how she is doing. When the phone hardly rings from people calling about shidduchim, while her other friends had shadchanim running after them, she is hurt too.

    and yes- you do have a point about NEEDY freinds, but that has nothing to do with married or not, we all have needy friends, and yes, they shouldn’t be so needy to their single friends too!

    And as a side point, guys don’t want to marry girls that are so NEEDY and our waiting for Prince charming to sweep them off their feet.They want to marry girls who made the most of life while they were waiting!

    i know you feel like she is looking to complain, but i feel she is not. She is looking to point something out, to make married freinds more AWARE of what their friends mite be going thru!

    you write “im sure you have other friends in the same boat”- what makes u so sure?? Maybe she doesn’t!
    I think she couldve written this letter without so much anger, but i think she has valid points!

    “leave us newly marrieds alone for a bit while we get accustomed to our new life”- if i had a friend like you, i would do just that. i would leave you alone, but i don’t think i would be too happy to be your friend again when you resurface.and if you think you don’t need friends when you are married, you are mistaken. It takes some a few weeks to realize that, and some a few months. And sometimes , by then , it is 2 late.

    like i said earlier- it is your choice. yes, you are justified in saying you need time to adjust, but you sound extremely angry at your single friends, and im not sure why! You should try to understand them a bit… it will do you alot of good.

    you wrote in one of your posts that if the girl was 26 or up, you would understand.
    I wonder- if you would have gotten married at age 22, what tune you would be singing. Maybe you were not the type who was looking to get married right away,so you don’t understand those that are.

    I am just trying to understand why you are so angry…the way you write “DEAL WITH IT KID, GROW UP.” makes me wonder…

    Again, im just trying to point out to you the other side of the coin, and the girl who wrote the letter sounds like she is trying to be dan lekaf zechus…

  76. Whats so hard to understand abt a 21 yr old hurting??? There are 10 yr olds hurting from whatnot and 15 yr olds hurting from other things and ANY age girl in the parsha may be hurting. Whether it be 18 or 35! If your friends, your security, leave you to start a new life you are bound to feel the void and a void brings pain or sadness! Even girls that have older siblings ahead of them and cant start dating till they get the green light- you think they are not hurting cuz they are 20 and they have many friends married???
    21 is a very normal age to hurt and nobody can negate that if they arent mamish feeling the same feelings as these girls. And guess what… there are 23 yr old guys hurting also!! Yup!!! you heard me right. Guys in Lkwd even! Guys that have thier whole shiur zipping passed them and each zman they are there still in Lkwd as their roomies keep getting younger and younger. Any girl that hears a 23 yr old guy is hurting will prob be sick to her stomach from such a thing. BUT its real and its out there!
    Miss 21 yr. old may have a few friends left or may not but it sure HURTS to feel like your friends have disappeared. Oh Chavrusa Oh mesoosah! Take it up with chazal if you have a problem!
    May Hashem heal the pain of all those hurting!!

    By the way when you are hurting… one of the best ways to feel better is to help others that need you!

  77. The point is not who is wrong and who is right cuz both sides are wrong and both sides are right, they both have to understand eachother…etc but the bottom line is IT REALLY HURTS WHEN YOUR BEST FRIEND, who you thought you can really trust, to always be there for you… SUDDENLY BECOMES UNINTERSETED IN YOUR LIFE, and YOUR BEST FRIEND WHO NEEDED YOU, SUDDENLY DOESN’T NEED YOU ANYMORE, and YOUR BEST FRIEND WHO WAS ALWAYS THERE FOR YOU IS SUDDENLY NOT THERE FOR YOU WHEN YOU NEED HER, (cuz her husbands home, or cuz she’s making supper…) not that she’s wrong, thats the way it should be BUT IT HURTS!!! I treally hurts, and you can’t understand until you’re in those shoes, so please just try to be understanding. It took me six months to become interested in any friends, or trust anyone, after my best friend got married, I felt, why bother putting so much into it, becoming so attached… only for her to get married on you and then have to feel all this pain all over again, it’s just not worth it. Now, thankfully, I’m back, socializing…etc but I’m still keeping my distance. I just sometimes wonder if she even realizes what she did to me, did she ever try to imagine the situation the other way around, what SHE would want ME to do had our roles been reversed, even if she is busy does she not have a conscience that bothers her??? come on what’s two minutes in your day of 24 hours (about six of them with your husband out of the house). I guess, as everyone is busy hollering on here “I’ll find out when I get married”, but I TRULY hope I won’t be the same.

  78. You are 100% right for feeling the way that you do. For your sake, though, you should try to let go of any negative feelings for one simple reason: You are the only one who will suffer from them. Shidduchim is hard enough without feeling resentment towards your friends. Why make it harder for yourself. I’m 24 years old and single. I also have friends that I could feel frustrated about. But I don’t let myself think about it. I have so many things to feel blessed about in my life. I have so many relatives and friends that do care and that do call. Thats what I let myself think about. Besides, your shidduch will come despite your friends efforts or their lack thereof. Hashem knows what He’s doing. And no one can stand in the way of your basherte. It will come at the right time. Not a second sooner and not a second later. May Hashem bless you with the strength you need until that moment!

  79. You are 100% right for feeling the way that you do. For your sake, though, you should try to get rid of any negative feelings for one simple reason: You are the only one who will suffer from them. Shidduchim is hard enough without feeling resentment towards your friends. Why make it harder for yourself? I am a 24 year old single. I also have friends that I could feel frustrated about. But I don’t let myself think about it. I have been blessed with so many good things in my life. I have so many relatives and friends who do care and do call. That’s what I let myself think about. Besides, your shidduch will come despite your friends efforts or their lack thereof. Hashem knows what He is doing. No one can stand in the way of your shidduch. You will find your basherte in the right time, not a second sooner and not a second later. May Hashem give you the strength you need untill that moment!

  80. To Beeps #7 & #74
    Firstly, my apologies to you. I thank you for clarifying your status as a newly married GIRL. Additionally, you now wrote with the compassion and understanding that probably shows your true middos and sensitivity. I just thought that your initial reaction was one of disdain for this unfortunately hurt girl. Your point is now well taken. Yes, marriage is an adjustment. Especially for those that get married so young and are lacking lifes experience. You might feel that your friends who are single do not understand your situation. And you may be right. However, it might be a good idea to remove yourself from the equation sometimes and understand the pain of your old friends. I wish you much hatzlacha and bracha. Again my apologies and I’m glad you now showed your true colors.

  81. ZietBsimcha #94, thank you for your consideration. My initial anger was not the best way to express my feelings on the issue. I guess i made it too obvious that i have a very needy single friend who is really being tactless. my letter was directed basically to her, which is not very considerate of me. i hope, that thru this forum, the single girls out there will deal with their married friends with a bit more tact. we are really on two different pages right now, and, no, we cannot discuss everything with you. Once again, Zeit Bsimcha, thank you for giving me a chance to explain.

  82. To Beeps #95…Yes, it is quite obvious that you do have a single friend that may be driving you bananas. Just understand that at this point she feels so helpless. Friends, especially among girls are EVERYTHING! Not only does she all of a sudden have very little in common with you, when you do talk essentially you are speaking a different language. you are married. everything is different. she probably senses that and it scares her so much. Maybe when you do have a moment and you are not extremely busy with your spouse, take the initiative and make that phone call to her. You’ll be helping her alot. Believe it or not, you’ll be helping yourself grow even more. Chesed it what sets us apart from all other human beings. And yes, it does require some more tact on everyone’s part. Keep your head up!

  83. To Beeps #87: I’m just curious to know how old you were when u got married? How can you judge someone else’s feelings and whether they should be hurting. people at any age can hurt and don’t have to be 26+. I am a single 24 year old, still have single friends, and keep up with my married friends, yet I still hurt!!

    I also feel that when people get married at a younger age, they are perhaps too immature to understand what their friends are going through. My friends who got married when they were 22+ never forget to call their friends. And yes i understand that marriage is an adjustment, but i don’t thing a text or a short phone call once in awhile is asking too much (we’re not expecting hour long conversations every night like when u were single)

  84. Your married friend wants the attention of her husband and is no longer a “free” person. Her responsibilitiiues to her new friend are in a league that you don’t understand.Her new husband wants her to himself and does not want his new wife (your friend) to share his life with outsiders,(you).

  85. Since I noticed that many newlyweds / married ppl wrote “I was also once in your shoes but now I think otherwise..” it just proves that the passage of time causes you to forget, not that the writer of this letter doesn’t have valid points.
    I also had the luck that most of my close friends got engaged/married/ had babies way before me, & yes, some of them act the way they do because they can’t ‘handle the situation’ but many are thoughtless, & a few are PLAIN SELFISH = when they need you they don’t let you forget about their existence, but once you serve no major purpose in their life they dump you. Let me reiterate that it’s only a few who are truly selfish but unfortunately they do exist. One of my friends got engaged at the tender age of .. almost 18. Of course her other friends & I were very excited & we all chipped in to buy an expensive present ( she demanded it.) A few days pass & we hear no mention of it. So, being worried that it wasn’t delivered to her house as arranged, I called her & asked if it arrived? her respons?: disgusting of you!! a million girls chipped in! why couldn’t you buy seperately? It’s so not personal!….”
    I (like a neb) started apologizing that we thought that in the long run she would appreciate a good (expensive) thing more than several cheaper ones, but nothing would appease her.
    the story doesn’t end here. she (spoke to her chassan 24/7 & therefore) claimed that she’s to busy to talk to anybody but then she complained that I (& everybody else) never call her.
    she also told us that we better come with the fanciest shtick to her wedding or else…….
    anyway to make a long story shorter she disappeared from the planet earth for months. 1 fine day I b”h got engaged. ( it hadn’t gone easily) all my friends were overjoyed & called to wish me mazel tov. barely a day after my engagement – l’chaim, I receive a text from this trusty old friend: ” aha! so this is what friends are all about! so I had to find out from the street that you’re engaged. how humiliating!” I won’t even continue cuz it was quite a long one.
    bottom line: an attitude of
    what can others do for MEEEEEEEEEEEE
    I’M IMPORTANT!!

    I want to add again that I know this is an extreme example & that B’h you don’t find too many such ppl but the point of this long post is to make the 1’s at the other side of the fence aware that you can’t judge a single who are hurt by insensitivity.

  86. P.S. I’m married already by the way, so yes I do understand that it’s a big adjustment, & can be overwhelming in the beginning ( and later) but this is not an excuse for totally ignoring your single friends. yes I’m busy & working & multi tasking etc. but let’s not kid ourselves you can still squeeze in a couple of minutes when your husband is NOT home. when he is – of course he’s priority & deserves your undivided attention, but he doesn’t need you every second of the day.

  87. Brooklynot #97. I was 21 when i got married. my point is that when girls nowadays aren’t engaged at 19 or so, they start freaking out and “hurting” when their other friends are getting engaged and they are still single. she is 21. 21 isn’t old at all. bh, i was zocher to find my bashert, and i wish the same to her, and to you. but to start feeling “hurt” at twenty one that she is still single and that her married friends don’t have time or her is a bit over the edge.

  88. Ok let me tell you from experience something. I am a nineteen yr old girl. Not all of my friends are married BUT from the few that are – i remember how they used to call me right after their week of shava brachos – HELLO MY HUSBAND WENT TO MAARIV COME OVER RIGHT NOW. Now think about it Why would i drop all my plans on a typical night to RUN OVER and see u?!?!?! And to top it all off you say – My husband is gonna be home in like ten minutes so ur gonna have to leave. So basically you make us feel like SO WHEN I’M AVAILABLE YOU HAVE TO DROP EVERYTHING AND RUN OVER. Nasty. And a phone call once every two weeks is called for especially when we were so close until now. It’s a horrible feeling to be left hanging. I’m not saying you have to be the same as before – as that would be IMPOSSIBLE. BUT some decency is mandatory. Thanks for listening

  89. #103 maidelfromlakewood…. i am sorry you are feeling this way… this forum is a bit out of your league. b”h, you are young. don’t let your immature friends bother you with their selfish needs.

  90. #103 maidelfromlakewood, I know EXACTLY what you mean! Just cuz you got married, doesn’t mean our lives stopped and we’re waiting for your majesy to come give us a few spare moments of your time, our lives continue!

  91. There is no reason to get angry. Most probably if you would have gotten married first you would have done the same. I agree its wrong, but instead of turning it into an angerfest, why don’t you learn from this experience and give a hand to those who need it. It seems that one of your main issues is your treatment by individuals presently on a “higher” social stratus. Do you reach out to those on a “lower” stratus?

  92. Now that i saw from my friends a can say that when i get married i SO WILL keep up with my friends. Why wouldn’t i want to? Thats also what gets me – like WHY wouldn’t you want to keep in touch? Was all of our high school/sem/post sem yrs of fun and everything just for the sake of nothing? and now that you have your husband u don’t need anyone else? I so will keep in touch with EVEYONE not because i know what it feels like but BECAUSE I WANT TO!

  93. adding to what #108 wrote:
    YES YOU STILL NEED YOUR FRIENDS AFTER YOU’RE MARRIED!!!!!
    your husband is a man after all & therefore can’t always relate to certain issues like a woman.

  94. To #102, beeps, i agree with you that 21 is still young, however if all your circle of friends got engaged at 18/19, even though you know you are still young at 21, you would “hurt”.
    To #97, brooklynot, “people at any age can hurt and don’t have to be 26+.” Your right about that.

  95. one more comment – i had a really nice friend who was engaged and i was once in her house shmoozing with her when her chosson called to speak to her. She spoke to him for two minutes, and then very politely said to him – “I hate to hang up on you but i have a friend over , so can i call you back a little later?” I think that was SO NICE and so appropriate. That friend is the same girl that when i call her now, and her hubby walks in she doesn’t interrupt my sentence and say “Got to go, hubby walked in BYE”. She lets me finish our convo and THEN she nicely hangs up. And ps – WHATS WRONG WITH SHMOOZING ON THE PHONE WHEN YOUR HUSBAND IS HOME???

  96. #111 maidelfromlakewood, i don’t envy your friends husband. it was highly inappropiate for her to hang up on her chosson because YOU were there… YOU were obviously more important to her…. that is so OFF. at that point in life, her focus should have only been for her chosson. He should not have been made to feel like any old “friend” whom you can tell “i need to go, i have someone here.”
    i seriously don’t envy her husband. even if you don’t think your husband is important, at least do a good job of PRETENDING. what kind of example must she have set for you?! definitely don’t learn from her. you need to make your husband your king, your sole focus. you don’t have to SLAM the phone down when he walks in, but you can excuse yourself politely and hang up asap. i think it is a lack of tznius for your husband to have to here a dumb conversation you are having with your friend…

  97. #112- you’re right that the husband might not like it when his wife chats on the phone while he’s home, but don’t make it into a tznius issue.

  98. Beeps I’m just not agreeing with you. She wasn’t telling her chosson – I DON”T WANT TO SPEAK TO YOU, but rather, I would love to talk to you, HOWEVER, my friend is here visiting me, and I know that you are available later on, and just because I’m engaged doesn’t mean I have to be rude and nasty and leave my friend. I would love to talk to you, and I will call you back in a few minutes when she leaves. I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHATS WRONG WITH THAT? Thats just showing GOOD middos. If your chosson thinks that this is a lack of interest in him or that she thinks her friends are more important than NEBACH!!! She’s just with a friend NOW but will call him back as soon as she leaves.

    And about the phone conversation, NO LACK OF TZNIOUS IN HIM HEARING YOUR CONVO. Whats the big deal if you talk on the phone a little when your husband is home?!?! You think he will think that that is a lack of interest in him?? Of course you are interested in him more than anyone in the world BUT you want to be polite and NICE (remember that good deed??) so you don’t SLAM the phone down THE SECOND he walks in. OK???

  99. My dear Maidel from Lakewood…. a girl just engaged should be a little more excited about her partner in life!!!!! her friend she can call later and shmooze into the night if she wants. her chosson deserves her undivided attention NOW. it really depends where you think your priorities should be. i personally think a chosson is first, not a friend. about talking on the phone… omg, i am not saying you havta slam the phone down when your husband walks into the door, BUT, if he walks in after a long day, he again deserves your undivided attention. He is first and formost your best friend. your other friend should ALWAYS come second. i personally think your shalom bayis and unity with your husband is a bit more important that catching up on news with your friend when your husband is sitting there. savvy?

  100. you are again repeating why it’s NOT NICE to shmooze to the friend when hub comes home, but can you explain what’s not TZNIUS’dig about it?

  101. I agree with you 100% that your husband/chosson comes first AND FOREMOST and BEFORE ANYONE IN THE WORLD. However, you still MUST still have respect for your friends AND therefore, like i said, if your chosson is MATURE enough to realize that you are not putting him down, or looking down on him, or putting him second, or thinking less of him, then you can kindly say – I would really like to talk to you NOW, BUT so and so is here, and DO YOU MIND IF I CALL YOU BACK IN A FEW MINUTES. Am i not being clear?? SORRY!!

  102. maidelfromlakewood: Of course you are right. I am a husband of 15+ years and I would be horrified if my wife would be so rude to ANYBODY if she would slam the phone down on them the minute I walked in. I want my wife to have friends besides me (lots of sholom bayis problems start from girls thinking like “beeps” and then drive their husbands mad when he chas veshalom talks to his brother for ten minutes on the phone when she is there!!!) and I enjoy listening to her chatting nonsense happily with a friend, yes, even nonsense, to me is sweet music if my wife is happy with it. I assure you that I dont feel any less honoured-loved-special-etc if my wife continues chatting on the phone with her friends when I walk in.

    Perhaps the world has changed somewhat in the last 15 years but if so, please maidelfromlakewood, be open with your chosson/husband and discuss it with him before upsetting him either way.

  103. Oh, get wih it,#119 Truehonesty!! you really crack me up!!! you are married for 15 years, baruch hashem! think back, way, way back to the beginning, the VERY beginning, when you were a fresh newlywed. imagine yourself walking into your door a few weeks, or even a month after you were married, and your wife is chatting her head off on the phone and doesn’t hang up for the next half hour. how dumb would you have felt? at the very beginning, you would’ve appreiciated your wife’s undivided attention…. Be honest, TrueHonesty!!

  104. Actually “beeps” I did think back and even discussed it with my wife. She remembers clearly how I would smile at her when I came in and signal to her to continue as long as she wanted. (I personally dont remember that!) I defintely dont remember feeling dumb, depressed, unloved or any other negative feeling because of allowing my wife her chance to speak to her friends. I will add in my wife’s zechus that I dont remember her ever initiating a phonecall during the time I was home during bein hasdorim etc. but why does she have to slam the phone down in her friend’s ear just because I walk in?

    I really think “beeps” that you should read some of the comments in these mailbag letters about selfishness even in marriage. Stop trying to see what you can get out of your spouse, what he/she owes you but instead concentrate on your duties to him/her. Believe me you will have a happier marriage and altogether be a better person. I have noticed other comments of yours in other articles and I seriously think that you have a shtickel of a problem with this. Maybe a little mussar would be effective too. Maybe discuss it with your spouse and he/she will manage even better to explain the problem to you with day-to-day examples of your behaviour. Wishing you only happiness and loads of hatzlacha.

  105. TrueHonesty, this is where dan l’kaf zechus comes in…. u cant possibly know the idiosyncrasies in my marriage, and therefore cannot see why i speak the waty i do. so, we are both in need of musser, i guess. me, for coming down hard on you and on some people, and you, for misjudgment, albeit unintentionally.

  106. beeps, I accept what you say and indeed I should be more understanding of other people’s possible situations. I will try to bear it in mind.

    Actually I wasnt bothered about your comments to me but rather your comments to “maidelfromlakewood”. Even if you have friends who are driving you crazy and a husband who is demanding in his needs for your total attention etc etc, why take it out on a young innocent girl? It seems that you basically agree that in an ideal world a young wife should be able to talk to her friends without it upsetting her sholom bayis even just when her husband comes home and yes there is no need to slam the phone down immediately so just because your situation with your husband and friends is not ideal and you are frustrated and angry(??), why not allow Miss maidelfromlakewood to attempt to create the ideal home where things are smoother and simpler? Maybe she will be zoche to have friends who do understand not to drive her crazy and a husband who appreciates and accepts her needs without a fuss. Why try to force a second-rate solution to a possible first-rate marriage? I suggested to her to discuss this openly with her chosson/husband when she gets engaged/married and then with her bina yesaira she will know what to do.

    I apologize again for upsetting and misjudging you, we all need injections of mussar and reminder calls from time to time. Thank you for giving me one now!

  107. TrueHonesty, you’re a real mentch. we each have our own opinions, yet we have come to respectfully agree to disagree. Mi Kiamcha Yisroel. thank you for giving me a chance to explain myself.

  108. #127- what I meant to say is that it’s insecurity that would make someone think that if his wife is on the phone when he’s around = he’s not #1 on her list. Otherwise why would it bother him? I really don’t understand what the big deal is!
    My husband takes/makes calls when I’m home & vice versa, & we’re both fine.
    p.s. no, we’re not married 10 yrs. We’re actually newlyweds.

  109. #128 Willi, i guess it’s really each to his/her own. some people are not bothered by it. some people are. When a guy comes home after a long day of working/learning it isn’t isecurity to want his wife’s attention. of course, not to the extreme of making the phone off-limits, but, still, a certain amount to sensitivity would be nice. anyway, guys are sometimes insecure! Nothing wrong with that!

  110. beeps, firstly thank you for your nice comment #126, much appreciated!

    Can I ask you a personal question? Feel free not to answer if you dont want. Does your husband know about your discussions on YW? Has he read your comments and other peoples’ answers? If not maybe show this whole conversation to him without telling him that you are “beeps” and use your healthy womanly intuition to understand his reaction. I think that you will learn a lot and gain so much in your understanding of your husband. Dont try to argue a point or to change his opinions, just listen and afterwards digest his words. Maybe you have misunderstood him too and what he really wants is supper ready on the table etc. (Remember I am a male and I speak like one too!!!)
    I am sorry for maybe getting too personal but it seems such a pity for a young lady like yourself to carry such a sack of anger and frustration on your back all your life. I am only making this suggestion to help, please ignore it if it is not applicable and forgive me for interfering. I really wish you all the best, you sound like a warm, smart and good girl and there is no reason why you cannot straighten things out with a little bit of external help.

  111. TrueHonesty, my husband does not know about my discussions on YW. I would have no problem showing this forum to him, but this isn’t about trying to get this point through to my husband, it’s about trying to get through to my single friends…! I realize that I came across strongly, and that was only becuase it bothered me the way my single friends were behaving. And as I wrote in a previous answer, I emphasized that I was talking about one particular friend. I’m not carrying a sack of anger and frustration… that would be overdoing it.
    By the way, you can ask all the questions you want. I don’t have a problem with being anonymously personal, so fire away! I’m sure that people can relate to, and learn from things we are discussing here, so why not.
    One more thing, what do you mean by straightening things out with external help?

  112. OK beeps, maybe I need to apologize again for misunderstanding you but I got the very strong impression from your comments that your husband’s attitude was very demanding and pressurizing and that’s why your difficult friends are upsettng you so much. (If your husband is easygoing, why are you so upset with them? Give them time too and dont slam the phone down on them!!) Your reaction to maidelfromlakewood’s story of a kallah who politely asked her chosson to excuse her because she has a visiting friend and she will call him back later, was one of shock and horror (“I dont envy her chosson…”, “at least pretend that he is FIRST” etc) and I assumed you were describing your husband’s projected reaction. It seems that maybe I was wrong and you were maybe projecting YOUR OWN possible reaction if your husband were to do that to you… In fact in one of my first comments on this letter, I said that when girls have this extreme attitude that in order to make their chossons feel good they have to slam phones down, then the outcome is that when their husbands talk once to their brothers/friends on the phone and the wife walks in and he doesnt slam the phone down instantly…. sholom bayis is gone!! (I know of various such cases with similar stories.) Isnt it better to relax and chill out and “live, let live and live with”? Let her have her space and him his space and each one be happy with and together the other one. Isnt the attitude of demanding full attentions, selfish and overprotective, and even jealous? Arent there enough other ways to express love and devotion to ones spouse without having to tread on anyone else’s toes? Whilst I sympathize with you for having some very difficult friends, why tell a young unmarried girl to go to extremes and start slamming down phones? Dont you agree that my attitude is better if possible? Let the young innocents aspire to reach the full heights in marriage, maybe they actually will.

    My mention of external help was a hint to you to go to a proffesional or even to an older person to discuss your situation as it is easily rectifiable. However, it seems that I misunderstood you (yet again) and the issue is not one inside the house but rather the external factor of friends then obviously the advice is not really to the point and I apologize…

    BTW I still would love to hear your husbands reaction to this discussion. You too will probably be surprised!!!

  113. TrueHonesty, Whoa! nice letter! i’m glad we’re on the same page. yes, you are right. I was projecting how I would react in the situation presented, not the way my husband would.

    Btw, you mentioned in an earlier response about “Maybe you have misunderstood him too and what he really wants is supper ready on the table etc. (Remember I am a male and I speak like one too!!!)”… that’s one place i SHINE!! i am proud to say that i have been cooking for my husband really great meals, including preparing breakfast and lunch for him before i leave to work.

  114. beeps I’m impressed of how you accept constructive criticism. Many readers here tend to retaliate when made aware of certain things where they need some improvement.
    Anyway keep up the good work – (about the cooking etc,) maybe you have some good recipes to share??

  115. beeps, I’m happy that I understood you right this time (finally) and your devotion to your husband is indeed a SHINING light. I’m sure that he appreciates it too.
    You seem to be right about this discussion interesting others too as we are still getting comments from them. I am expecially pleased that maidelfromlakewood is still reading these letters as she was the one who really set the whole thing up and BH she says she is encouraged. Maidelfromlakewood, please feel free to add questions/comments too! Willi, I second your comment #135 all the way. Indeed beeps you ARE special how you accept all the criticism so well. It is from my part devorim hayoitzim min halev as I have unfortunately heard too many sad stories that start over such trivialities and end up…. Anyway it is only because you are so positive and honest that I continued writing my ideas and yes, the fact this all this is anonymous allows the conversation to run freely and openly.

    Returning to the issue at hand: I still haven’t understood from you if you agree that ideally it is not necessary to slam phones down on friends and an open discussion with one’s spouse to understand their feelings on the subject should be enough to allow a working situation whereby both sides appreciate that each others’ friends are not threats but part and parcel of life with another person. Would you really be insulted and upset if your husband continued talking on the phone to a friend when you arrived home?

    Having said all that, I agree that if a friend totally oversteps her mark and cannot understand that you are not available 24/7 for her and begins to either get on your husband’s nerves or gets you so angry/frustrated that it interferes with your happiness and marriage AND after trying unsuccessfully to explain this to her nicely and with sensitivity to her difficult and “lonely” situation, then your husband must come first and be nice but firm with your friend and if she is offended then understand that it is HER problem now and not yours. Usually after a week or so of feeling sorry for herself, she will miss you enough to call, apologize and accept your terms for the friendship. I have a friend (at the time he had 9 children, married for 12 years etc.) and his wife became very friendly with another married lady and began doing everything with her including discussing everything from menus to children, clothes to chinuch problems etc. He began to feel threatened by this friend as he no longer felt himself as his wife’s best friend and he forbade his wife to speak to her anymore. She agreed out of no choice but spent many hours crying… He too felt bad but had no idea how to extricate himself from the situation. He told me the story adding that even then he feels the friend’s influence on his wife as she still isnt opening up to him as she used to. My advice was the same to him as to you. DISCUSS IT WITH YOUR SPOUSE HONESTLY. Tell her that you felt threatened, tell her how unhappy you are to see her so sad now, discuss together ways of allowing the friendship to flourish without it interfering with him. It wasnt easy but now they are all happy and friends. (Another thing I told him to do which would help, is to cultivate a friendship with this friend’s husband so they too would all feel part of the relationship rather than outsiders.) I really think that the answer to so many of the problems in marriage is open and honest discussion – that is why I suggested to you to show this forum to your husband as that will open up the lines of communication to hear his side of the story. What is his advice on how to deal with your difficult friend? Have you discussed it with him?

    Again, I wish you lots of happiness and the siyatta dishmaya to build up the true bayis ne’eman and to be zoche to pass it on to the next generation too.

  116. wow! this is the only “letter out of the mailbag” still active.
    truehonesty, the point of ‘husbands of friends becoming friends’, is a good idea, but doesn’t always work out. One of my married friends invited my husband & me for a meal recently. I thought it would be a good opportunity for our hubs to get to know each others, but my husband was a bit shy. (we didn’t go)
    Ironically, at the same time he became close to a neighbor on the block (& I never even exchanged a word with the wife) but they invited us for a meal – my husband was really excited to go- & I agreed!
    so my point is again, that the idea in general is nice, but every situation is different.

  117. Mrs “Willi”, you are right it doesnt always work (actually it often doesnt work!) to try and make friendships like this. In your case, it was simply yes or no – it didnt really matter either way, you could become friends with Mrs Neighbour or not and he could become friends with Mr Your Friend or not. Life would continue either way. In my story it was more vital and necessary (actually it turned out that the friend’s husband was also bothered although he refused initially to admit it) and even now they respect each other without being close friends. At the time it was a lifesaver for both of them and they clutched at it to “save” their marriages. The wives respect their husbands for their efforts in allowing the friendship and have toned down their discussions and hours spent together to keep the peace!!!

    I only mentioned that point btw, the main ingredient was the open discussion between man and wife. I only brought the story to show that the problem of friends overstepping the mark can be not only single friends to newlyweds but even between 30-40 year old married people. In this case the wife “forgot” about her husband’s feelings and needed to be reminded. The husband overreacted and needed to be brought back down to reality. Boruch HaShem it worked…

  118. #138 – Good points. ……Think we kind of overstayed our visit on this post, so See you at the newer letters at “out of the mailbag”. All the best.

  119. One further comment… I walked past a bookstore last week and picked up Rabbi Zelig Pliskin’s book on marriage. I opened it to have a look and it came out on page 238 with a story of a kallo who was told by her teacher to put down the phone when her husband comes home. She thought that it made sense and indeed after her chasuno did just that and told her friends that husband is home, must go. After two years of marriage her husband told her that he absolutely hates it when she does that. He explained that he doesn’t like it that she blames it on him, if you want to stop your conversation then say you want to go but why say because of me……

    Another story that proves my point, discuss these issues with chosson/husband openly and honestly and save yourself all the problems.

  120. #140 – very right. In the best case these women might end up pleasing their husband, but very likely losing a friend or 2.
    gite vuch