Following the meeting this week of the admorim shlita of the Moetzas Gedolei Hatorah of Agudas Yisrael, a kol korei was published in the chareidi media on erev Shabbos that the tzibur is not to cooperate with IDF authorities in any way.
This includes reporting for a first draft notice and joining any of the specially tailored programs for chareidim, including Shachar and civilian service.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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22 Responses
It takes great courage to stand up to a powerful nation-state, especially when doing so is against one’s economic interests.
Akuperman wrote:
“It takes great courage to stand up to a powerful nation-state, especially when doing so is against one’s economic interests.”
More courage than going in to Gaza or sending one’s sons there?
“This includes reporting for a first draft notice” – The kol koreh does not say that anywhere.
Shlomo2:
A soldier in Gaza can rely on his wits, and the fact he is part of a strong well established armed force. The Hareidim in Eretz Yisraeli are standing up to a well established state that frequently used an iron fist against its enemies. If the Medinah’s response is to try to “break” the Torah world, as many of their leaders have been advocating for the last century, they have the power to do so. The Hareidim are unarmed, and make no pretense of being able to resist by force, and yet they are standing up facing a well armed country and saying “no”, with full knowledge that the Medinah could respond by throwing the leaders in prison, rounding up the yeshiva students, banning transfer of funds from overseas, denying visas for hareidim to travel to Eretz Yisrael, seizing their property (techniques the zionists routinely use against the Palestinians). And while the Palestinians can count on support form much of the world, the Hareidim know that few goyim will care if the Israelis decide to crush them. Standing up to tyranny, knowing the whole world is NOT watching, is an act of tremendous courage.
Reading the “kol koreh’, I am not sure whether to cry or to laugh. The assertions that by participating on any of the programs, one would throw his religion away is a pathetic and alarmist statement , contradicted by decades of frum Jew joining the army and other programs. It gets worse because the signers of this declaration blithely assert that even if one’s parnossoh is threatened, one should refuse to cooperate and, by implicaiton, lose on’e liveliehood. That ‘advice’ comming from Admorim who never have worked a day in their lives and will never worry about their parnossoh is truly scandalous. Feh.
@Akuperma
There is very limited minority trying to “break the Torah world”.
Most of the people supporting the draft bill are sick and tired of sending their sons and daughters to die for the Chareidim and paying for a lifestyle the Chareidim have been unable to, and frankly unwilling, to explain.
Sorry but that’s the way it looks to this Father of a religious soldier who is a Chosid led by one of the Moetzes members.
Akuperma:
I agree with you that yeshiva students will not be allowed to rely on their wits.
They could choose to accept on faith the scenario you envision of iron-fisted repression and being sent to gulags.
And they could choose to accept on faith that it takes more courage to square off against the Zioinists in Kikar Shabbat than it does to square off against Hamas in Gaza.
@aperkuma your %100 right
I ask again, exactly who are the members of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah? Can someone please let us have the list as supplied officially by the Secretary.
Did the editor of “YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem” not read the sign? or is the misinformation on purpose?
It does not mention at all that people should not report to the first draft notice.
(I hope not, but) I fear that the editor has some political alignment, & is willing to misinform, either on purpose or by mistake, at least the people that won’t read the Kol Koreh.
I would love to see an amendment of this news piece, so that it should be accurate.
And we can only hope that the IDF will take appropriate legal measures against those who refuse to serve.
— from a father of one formerly in, and one currently in the IDF
#5 rabbiofberlin – I’m sorry to say, but your level of Binah is surely not great enough to square off with leading Sages of our Dor. I highly doubt that many people have heard of you outside these YWN posts. I can understand if you would say something like, “I really don’t understand what these Gedolim have against serving in the army.” (Which, incidentally, is basically what #6 aml is saying)
What is wrong of you is to put yourself on a pedestal and say that you are wiser and holier than any of the Gedolim of our Dor who don’t agree with you. That’s just outright Gaavah!
softwords,
+10000000
Softwords:shavua tov.You are indeed right.I have little faith in the Admorim and other Gedolim you mention.I don’t believe for one moment that they are disinterested people or that they have all the wisdom in the world.You can add me to those who do not believe in the new notion of daas torah. I still have brains.
Akuperma’s rants look like they are copied from those of the nutty far left and the Jihadis. He is as bad as the Jews who support BDS or make excuses for Hamas.
“square off with leading Sages of our Dor”
The leading sages of the door told Jews to stay in Eastern Europe despite the threat of the Nazis. Would that more Jews had “squared off” with them on this issue.
#9 avreimi – I can only assume that you are new to the internet. To receive your answer it is as easy as Wikipedia or Google “Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah”. (Hint: Wikipedia give a list of the board members.)
It does not say ANYTHING in the notice about “reporting for a first draft notice “.
On the contrary – it states ONLY not to join any of their programs etc.
The gedolim have a disagreement in hashkofo concerning reporting for a first draft notice- Harav AL Steinmann and many others with him have clearly said that every bochur who receives a first draft notice, should report, but should not sign adraft agreement.
Harav Shmuel orbach and others have said not to report.
BUT for YWN to misinterpet a notice from the Moetzes to mean that no one should report is wrong!!!
What does Maran Rosh Hayeshiva Shlita say? Veilav tishmaun.
Thumbs up @softwords
The relevant paragraph says “not to COOPERATE with any of the programs”. My guess is that this was worded to be deliberately ambiguous about reporting to a first call to allow each Rav or Rebbe to instruct his followers as he sees fit.
The army doesn’t particularly want masses of Yeshiva bochurim who would drastically change the complexion of the army and create all kinds of problems for the commanders, they have plenty of mainstream young Israelis who will be far easier for them to handle. When this was pointed out to MK Yaakov Peri, who chaired the first committee on the draft law, he answered that the real reason the government wants to draft Chareidim is to change their basic values (i.e. make them less frum and more “Israeli”). At the beginning of the state this was recognized as an important function of military service, to produce homogenized Israeli citizens. Much of the discussion in the second committee, chaired by MK Shaked, centered on what would be the most effective strategy to get the maximum number of Chareidim into army programs in order to change their “values”, continuing to entice them with various incentives (as has been working effectively for a while now) or coercing them with criminal sanctions, which all the knowledgeable people said would only have the opposite effect and stiffen Chareidi resistance. These sensible voices were overruled by Lapid on purely political grounds, he was trying to grow his voter base regardless of the overall effects of his strategy. His strategy failed on both counts, his standing in the polls has dropped drastically and the number of Chareidim volunteers has also dropped drastically.
Underlying all this is “Ein Od MiLevado”, Hashem is running the show and why He’s choosing to do it this way is open to discussion, but that’s another story.
Shlomo 2 ,aml,
Irrelevant and moot.
Shimon Peres
candidly put a dozen and a half years ago(and he’s was on top sending the soldiers):
Our real fighting and negotiating isn’t really with the arabs.
The fighting and negotiating is really amongst ourselves (i.e. with other jews)
We’re deciding what type of nation/people we’re eventually going to be