In a pashkavil released by the Badatz Eida Chareidis addressed to Jews of the Diaspora, the beis din calls on Jews of France and Europe not to permit themselves to believe statements from state officials to come on aliyah due to the recent wave of terrorism in France and the fear of additional attacks.
The badatz mourns the murdered Jews but advises European Jews not to move to Israel for as long as they do not know with certainty where their children will be attending school but to remain in France and continue their Torah observant lifestyle.
The badatz warns by citing what occurred in the past to other communities that came to Israel and lost their Yiddishkheit as a result.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
Dumbest statement ever. The fact is that there is more Torah being learned in E”Y today than ever before. Those who want to maintain a Torah lifestyle are free to do so, as do the more than 1 million people right now.
If yidden in France feel at risk and want to make aliyah, who are these Badatz idiots to tell them to stay put until their kids are assured admission to a good yeshiva (presumably with Badatz rabbonim and Eidah hashgacha??) You have to wonder whether such foolish and potentially life-threatening advice should even be publicized. They are much better off even in a public school in EY knowing their children are much safer against attack. Let these Badatzniks move to Europe and open up slots in the “good”yeshivos.
What the badatz is terrified of is having the country flooded with hundreds of thousands of Yidden who look very modern on the outside, but are deeply religious and observant on the inside. This flys in the face of their isolationist life style that they claim is the only way for a Jew to live. They dont give a slice of yerushalmi kugel about the Jews in france or their physical and spiritual well being, only about their own.As usual.
I have no problem with the Badatz statement. My probem is with the TYW headline. Badatz did not say that people should not make Aliya. They said, don’t make aliyah without first making sure that you will find appropriate schools for your children. I am sure everyone on this sight knows people that have made aliyah without properly considering their children’s education causing really unfortunate results. I think the Badatz statement makes a lot of sense.
Torah observant Jews in Israel need to create a more balanced lifestyle or the country will not survive as a Jewish state. The country needs more armed security guards, as today’s bus attack in Tel Aviv again showed. It has no shortage of rabbis and torah scholars getting government handouts.
Badatz Eida Chareidis have almost zero pull with the French Jews who are mostly Sephardim/Mizrahim, so it’s a worthless pashkavil.
to #1 & #2,
they’re not dumb at all here
nothing in the article said it’s due to the “possule” zionism that exists here
no, it’s a shtarke warning that many olim (immigrants) have it very difficult here, and unfortunately have to makriv many korbonos (children’s chinuch that is), after moving here
so i tip my hat to the badatz for saying this
More Jews have died in Israel due to violence than any other country in the entire world since 1948, probably combined.
Culture shock = off the derech = worse than death.
Especially the secular Israeli kids. I can only speak for the US, but a suburban secular kid is MUCH better off than a secular Israeli, ruchnius and gashmius. Just look at the violence rates in schools and the way they treat girls.
French 15-year olds will NOT fit into the system, whether BD”Z schools, whether dati schools, whether secular schools. The BD”Z is coming to counteract the statements of the medina to make sure that people make a sound decision, not based on emotion. Nobody is saying it’s assur to move to Israel.
Not only is their a great spiritual danger of falling out of the Derech HaTorah if one moves to Israel without much careful oversight and planning, but Israel is a more physically dangerous place for Jews to live in and be subject to terrorism than France or anywhere else in Europe. In fact Israel is the most dangerous country for Jews to live in today.
The edeh is past it’s prime they speak maybe for 10000 families and not as they claim the charidy community as a whole just think for a second the edah also says not to vote in elections…..
The thing is, there are loads of fear mongers out there in the Jewish and Zionist worlds who use any negative news as a pretext to say, “Drop everything and move to Israel NOW before the world goes boom!” Many such fear mongers are affiliated or aligned with organizations for making aliyah, and I agree that exploiters of murder and terror victims should not be listened to.
“In a pashkavil released by the Badatz Eida Chareidis….”
How can you be sure who really put that out? Anyone can put out a sign saying what they want, claiming any author.
1) Let’s not forget the Yaldei Teheran, where the ohavei Yisroel took children from their parents, cut off their peyos (simonim), fed them non-kosher food. . .
2) It is well known that most American Rabbonim strongly discourage such moves because children, especially teenagers, do not fare well as “chutznikim” and often fall through/out of the system.
3) Almost every American oleh I know experienced many serious chinuch/Yiddishkeit concerns once arriving in Eretz Yisroel.
So maybe, just maybe, the Aidah is sincerely concerned about their brethren. And maybe, just maybe, the Aidah is trying to preserve and protect more than those who have proclaimed they represent only certain elements of the population. And maybe, just maybe, the Aidah is in reality more inclusive than all the enlightened Jews out there.
Many statements were issued like this in Europe too.
Not a very accurate headline. According to the article the french Jewish community is being advised to be clear where they will send their children to school before making aliya.
The fact that there is more Torah being learned in E”Y today then ever before does not help the individual parents who can’t get their children into schools that are right for them. The issue is further compounded by the cultural adjustment and stress of immigration.
Considering that our first responsibility as parents is the chinuch of our children such concerns need to be addressed.
I agree with the Badatz and would suggest that they leave Eretz Yisroel in order to be sure that their children get a proper chinuch. 😉
עד מתי לעדה הרעה הזאת
No matter how Frum they try to seem, they are modern-day Meraglim.
an Israeli Yid
Rather than all your thoughtless remarks someone aught to arrange a proper integrating system for the French Yidden so that they can transition smoothly after Aliyah.
The badatz is correct, the schools for example (one of many), would not be able to accommodate such an influx. Many parents who are otherwise clueless would send their precious children to the public Israeli kefira schools because the frumeh ones were unprepared and did not have the space.
“Godal Hadorah” Watch your mouth.
It should be noted that not all Pashkevils are authentic.
I have read of a few cases where a pashkevil was fabricated and claimed to be in the name of prominent Rabbinic Authorities but was nothing but a hoax.
Can you please post the pashkevil for us to read it rather than judging frum erliche yidden whos point has historical basis.
Best advice is for the Edah families to be yorad & move to France. See how religious life is observed there, find social programs, join the shul’s & Mosdos & give your homes to the French Olin. All will be glad, satisfied & frum.
In the what’s-in-it-for-me department, a more pointed rebuttal to the Zionist encouragement of Aliyah is that anyone watching the news can plainly see that Israel is NOT better equipped to protect Jews physical existence than anywhere else. As to the Eida Charedis statement, they themselves are turning Jews off to Torah by discouraging the obtaining of any education in math and English that would lead to gainful employment. Mr. Gafne’s statement yesterday to the effect that there is no such thing as a “working Charedi” is as much bittul Torah as anything the non-Torah movements have ever espoused.
I have to admit, I didn’t know what to expect when I read the article, and after I skimmed it, I was expecting a deluge of comments like #1, #2, #3, and #5. But then I read #4, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15 all of whom make some compelling points.
Which makes me wonder: what are 16, 17, and 22 thinking? How could they write what they wrote after reading these earlier comments. (Maybe the limud z’chus is that they didn’t read them or that they made their comments before those earlier comments were cleared for public consumption by the moderator). It’s not a problem if a person wants to take a side in a debate, but such a person must at least articulate some logic in support of his view, and also must respond to points that have been made in opposition to that view.
I realize that it’s hard to be open to new points of view and dropping our old ones in the face of a better option, but then what’s the point of a discussion?
I feel that the first thing to check before making Aliyah is how you will make your Parnassah in Israel.
If you cannot feed yourself, wife and children than how can you go?
But if you can get to Israel, do so.
The psychological importance of knowing you can fight back against terrorism is vital.
And not to mention all the mitzvot that can only be done in Eretz Yisrael!
Why isn’t anyone suggesting they move to America? There will clearly be many many people leaving France in the coming decades. Sadly, Jews had to leave their homes many times before. Even more sad, America has a better track record than Israel for absorbing large immigrant communities while allowing them to retain their culture and religion.
I think it’s reasonable that we American Jews should petition the US govt to open its arms to these educated business people who will contribute culturally & economically. We need to prepare community leaders so the French Yidden can have infrastructure prepared for them. Israel welcomes them but the government will do its utmost to destroy their religiousity. Sad, but true.
Two important points, I believe.
1)(Partially already touched upon…). Simply, let them open their own schools and Yeshivos, in the same way that they will probably move to their own areas and create French communities in EY.
2)This is my own thought, but – as people who believe in Hashem, we are often scared to admit, that as much as we care about ruchnius, we also care about our gashmius. Right now, I’m referring to living when mentioning gashmius.
People have spoken about spiritual dangers being far worse than physical ones. Let’s not be tested, but when one fears for their life, yes, it will be that gashmius that comes first, before worrying about the ruchniyus of how will I be educated etc. Infact, halachically, we are commanded to save our physical life first.
All very well to say, as comment-ors have over here, that ‘what about the ruchniyus,’ and G-d forbid being lost, which is of course a tragedy, but for someone in the situation, which again, we hope we will never be in, gashmius of ones life is what naturally comes to mind in the first instance.
I can only speak for the US, but a suburban secular kid is MUCH better off than a secular Israeli, ruchnius and gashmius. Just look at the violence rates in schools and the way they treat girls. –
Have you ever met a suburban secular kid in America, does not know about Chanukah, Purim, Rosh Chodesh, kosher or if there is a Jewish calendar, things that every SECULAR ISRAELI KNOWS well. In less than a generation the assimilation and intermarriage rates in USA have hit an all time high of 75%. You are so off base!!
The immigration and absorption of new olim to kehillos in Yehuda and Shomron is amazing and the Torani schools are excellent. Many French speaking olim in Ramat Eshkol, Efrat, Bet Shemesh – Sheinfeld/Savyon areas and all faring well.
Even if you move to a different neighborhood you should make sure you have a yeshiva to send your kid(s) to. So of course when moving to different country you should make sure your kid(s) have a yeshiva to go to.
The Eidah of Lakewood says the same: DONT move to Lakewood unless you have a school to go to!
#24 – I absolutely read the earlier responses. I don’t see how they affect my comment. “Tovah Ha’aretz me’od, me’od” was what Yehoshua had to say about it, and it is he, rather than the other Meraglim (all of whom had, according to Medrashim, great ruchniusdick reasons for wanting to stay in the Midbar), who HKB”H said was correct.
True, there can be specific reasons for individuals to remain in CHU”L, and they can be valid reasons – and Chinuch is definitely one of them. That said, the blanket “Don’t come to Israel – it’s bad” that the Eda Ha’ra’ah says in its Pashkevil mirrors the attitude of those in the time of the Midbar and Ezra who did not want Jews to come to Israel.
As to the culture shock issues on moving to Israel – there are now significant French communities in Israel that can help ease the transition, and coming as a group helps significantly too. Look at the success of groups like Nefesh b’Nefesh – one of the key factors that makes it work is that those that come with them have a built-in network and support system to ease the transition. No, it’s not perfect, and no, it’s not for everyone – but the kind of evil counsel given by the Eda Ha’ra’ah is just plain wrong.
an Israeli Yid