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Modesty Committee: Separate Shopping in Ramat Daled

sca.jpgIt appears the Eida Chareidis Modesty Committee is seeking to set new rules for shopping in Ramot Daled, whose rav, HaGaon HaRav Fuchs Shlita also serves on the Eida and is tied to Vishnitz.

Rav Fuchs is calling for two checkout lines at the neighborhood grocery store, one for men and women. The Rav is also calling on residents to do their “big shopping” towards the beginning of the week and not towards Shabbos as is the case today in the hope of limiting the crowd at in the isles at any one time.

The neighborhood grocery store is owned by two brothers, Breslov Chassidim, who reportedly are more than pleased to assist in implementing the new regulation. They plan to encourage shopping early by giving raffle tickets to shoppers in the beginning of the week, to hold a weekly raffle for a “valuable prize” in the hope of encouraging adherence to the new shopping rules.

According to people close to Rav Fuchs, it appears the growing concerns regarding youths hanging on the streets on Friday night have compelled the rabbi to act, hoping to introduce increasing neighborhood awareness to tznius and the need for parents to control the actions of their children towards preserving the integrity of the neighborhood.

(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)

36 Responses

  1. Instead of separate shopping lines, the neighbors should go out and “invite them in”. Make a Chanuka party or a Motzai Shabbos gathering, for the youth that hang out outside! How will separate shopping lines, and shopping for Shabbos on Monday help the situation.

  2. “They plan to encourage shopping early by giving raffle tickets to shoppers in the beginning of the week, to hold a weekly raffle for a “valuable prize” in the hope of encouraging adherence to the new shopping rules”.
    THIS IS CALLED POSITIVE REENFORCEMENT- and usually is successful.

    If the issue is a concern regarding kids hanging out, try a better educational foundation, increase self value, self worth, and give the kids an ability to see success and progress. Adding more NO, NOs to the Torah is not going to help the community, its residents or visitors.

  3. Mi K’amchu Yisroel?

    B’H the Rabbonim are going to all lenghths to insure the most comprehensive tznius in Klal Yisroel!

    In this zchus, may Klal Yisroel be spared from any and all tznius problems.

  4. The experts are at it again! And peopel wonder why daas torah is losing its voice? Make a city more tznius and this will keep the kids off the street in Daled and send them to crack square where they have no chance. Aha, now I get it! I noticed that Rabbi Fuchs did not say for all of his cult followers to take of the shaitels like Rav Eliyashav paskened. Daas torah? I think not!

  5. Soon Pathmark,Shoprite,Key Food will have separate aisles for men and women.Separate entrances must also be built if they want to sell kosher products. Each item must also be tovelled in the mikva before being placed on the shelves. Only male clerks may be cashiers for the men’s line and only covered women on the ladies’ lane. Children under 3 will be allowed on either lane.

  6. Realx everyone different communities have different norms and different standards! What you need for success in your American community already steeped in the 49th level of Tumah maybe differeny than a community in Artzeinu Hakedosha. Dont knock someone who is trying to save Yiddishe Neshamos!

  7. Realx everyone different communities have different norms and different standards!
    The tzniuus standards in Ramot have been torahdick till now.

    What you need for success in your American community already steeped in the 49th level of Tumah maybe differeny than a community in Artzeinu Hakedosha.
    Thank you for your sarcasm and knowitall attitude, you are falling quickly down to the 47th floor.

    Dont knock someone who is trying to save Yiddishe Neshamos! This is not the way to save Jewish Neshamos, try some of the kiruv ideas and results will be seen.

  8. If pictures of women are not posted on this site, then why can you post her hands pushing a shopping cart? hamistakel betzba ktana shel isha……..

  9. I guess I am not as bright as I thought I was.
    How will having separate checkout lines, and, incentives for shopping earlier in the week keep our children off the street?

  10. next chumra- separate cities – 1 for men, and 1 for women. never have to see each other again.
    maybe even separate countries.

    one wonder show the Torah permitted marriage between man and woman and prohibited it between man and man.

  11. “…the Taliban is coming to Israel.”


    In a time when our dear brothers and sisters are being murdered in cold blood all over the world, we need Heavenly assistance more than ever before.

    This is no time for wiseguy comments directed at the efforts of serious Talmidei ChaChomim, who are trying to protect the Jewish Nation from further tragedy.

    Shame on you!

  12. The Chofetz Chaim’s wife ran a grocery store. Did she insist on separate lines? And how were men allowed to buy in her store b’chlal?

    Please, let’s not be more frum than Hashem.

  13. The real absurdity here is not the Talibanesque Takana itself, but rather the belief that it will somehow influence wayward youths.

  14. Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Fuchs! They have similar rules in the Co-op in South Falsburg. If people can’t handle it, let them shop elsewhere! No one is forcing anyone to shop there. Time to grow up!

  15. Joe Yeshivish and his ilk are entirely missing the point. Whether or not this is a legitimate chumra (which IMHO it isn’t), it’s still an absurd response to the problem of wayward teenagers hanging out in the street on Friday night.

  16. It is understandable that people who don’t come from this type of environment might be confused and even concerned for the youth when reading this article with a blunt mind. In an ultra orthodox community separate is socially acceptable. Having diffrent lines is just one method used in order to preserve the wanted modesty levels in these extremely close quarter shopping centers.

    I have been to this so called “shopping center.” For those familiar it is extremely small with a tight isle, two registers in close proximity, a constant crowd of people.They host a large selection of dank food and other assorted goods for such a small location. The good prices attract many Chassidim who live in the surrounding neighborhood both male and female alike.

    It is not uncommon to see a flock of frocks in the shops on Thursday afternoon when everyone is rushing to get ready for Shabbos.

    When men who are striving to exclude themselves from all other women but their wives and Women who are doing the same for their husbands it is highly encouraged and praised to abstain from all actions they might be obstructive.

    In light of recent additions to the community the thin line of decency is put to the test. You cannot enforce modesty on a wide spread scale, especially to those who object to it. Some ruffians on the street dress in ways that are potentially abase and degrading. It might be helpful to push for stricter distinction of lines in the local shop, due to the close proximity of bodies and the problems that can stem from simple touching.

    These youngsters are our youth and it is in our sincere effort to help them achieve ultimate happiness. I don’t condone their behavior and would gladly take part in activities with them. They are not goons or delinquents and pose no threat. They may be rowdy and shake things up a bit but we love them like all of Klal Yisroel and look forward to enjoying the beautiful mountain in Yerushalyim and all it’s shopping center provisions in the future

    -Yours Truly, EETROP
    Smoke the shabbos 🙂 Hag Sameach

  17. i like that idea and i try to do it in my own life at supermarket lines and any other place that i can

    at Yerusalem Bus Station i only go to a door with a male guard (and BTW never use the door on the right as it have no Mezuzah)

  18. thegreatfixer, do you have a source for why you should go through a door with a mezuzah?

    Pomegranate Cherry, you have not explained the logical connection between the two situations here… are you trying to say that if the frum people act super frum, the wayward youths will act frummer as well? Can you prove that?

    As a counterpoint, when they had a similar problem in Neve Yaakov, they addressed it by making classes for the teenagers with rewards for modest dress and behavior, rather than segregating the makolet. Imagine that.

  19. before we get to carried away with this (although i think i’m too late), i’m familiar with this makolet (grocery store) let’s just say that due to it’s size it can’t really handle more than 10 people shopping there at one time but many times especially wed. and thurs. it has about 50 people shopping there at a time. of course you can forget about express lines when all they have is 2 lines with the whole “check out lane” being aprox. 2 ft long.

  20. BTW Did anyone ever document or poll the results of Takanos. Do communities that have Takanah dispensers produce more Happy, spiritual, productive people?
    Maybe if peoplr would have real meaning living a goal oriented life, Takanos wouldn’t be so in demand.

    And maybe thats why these ‘concience bandage’ Takanos never dawned upon our previous Greats

    Just wondering

  21. While I’m not against chumras, why in our generation we only focus on the toful, what happened to the Ikkur? How about the next takkanah coming out of a Rov has to do with bein odom l’chaveiro?

  22. Rabbi Fuchs is 100% right. I think Rabbi Fuchs is trying to prevent a Bochur who learns at the Mir from becoming to friendly and talking to a BY Seminary tzinua type girl outside the Ramat Daled Makolet.

  23. Even if there are separate line, won’t the mend still be able to see the women? Isn’t it less tzeniusdik to have a line of men ogling at a line of women than just to have them all on the same line?

  24. I live in Ramat Bet Shemesh in Israel, where some of the Rabbonim and residents have pressured stores to post tznius signs and agitated for separate waiting areas at doctor’s offices. From what I have seen in practice, the intense public focus on tznius generally leads to LESS tznius, not more. There is nothing “tzanua” about a bunch of avreichim having a meeting to discuss what type of clothing a checkout girl should wear (yes, it actually happened). And this past week, a mob of kanoim actually hit and kicked a girl who they thought was not tzanua enough. It’s a slippery slope…

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