Health, it does not make sense that she should be aware of the DNR, I believe that there are more than three residents living in the facility. what business is it for the nurse if the person has a DNR or not so that she should be aware of this.

I think that you are to say something that is far fetched.

The reason she gives the dispatcher for not handing over the phone to anyone else in the room is because they do not know how to do CPR.

Other than that she keeps on going in circles.

When asked if she cares about the PT, she states yes, when asked so dont you help the PT, she replies that this is why she is calling 911.

I have attended many codes in similar facilities. Never has any of the staff had any knowledge if the PT has a DNR or not.

Interesting, she did not mention this to the 911 operator, nor is this mentioned as a factor on why she did not start CPR.

She had a few other reasons for not doing CPR. none had anything to do with the PT having a DNR.

She did not mention that the PT had a DNR, and it was not present, that is why EMS did resuscitate.

If they had a DNR then it should have been present, no DNR present CPR should not be withheld.

In your case, your mother (or the people making her health care decisions) made the decision to have a DNR order.

in this case it was not appropriate to do CPR, however if there would not have been a DNR present, the nurse should not be the one making the call if it is appropriate or not.

daniela, I have been dispatched to codes quiet often, we cannot decide that it is not appropriate to work up the patient, there are rules in place. only if there is obvious death.

Otherwise we need permission from a doctor not to work up the patient.

Yes, the way she responded makes it evident that people were around, she did not reply that no one was around.

The reason this nurse refused others to do CPR was because THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO CPR! this is what she is heard being said on the recording.

Then she says that at this time there is no one that is willing to help, therefore she will not hand over the phone or let the dispatcher talk to anyone. Interesting how she knew this without even asking anyone

Please detail the times when CPR is inappropriate.

The only situations I know of are when a DNR is present.

and when death is obvious.

Otherwise how can you make a decision if it is appropriate or not?

This is not true, by joining she DOES Not automatically agree to a DNR, this has nothing to do with a living facility. This is only between the patient and her doctor.

By joining she probably agreed that the facility will not provide any medical assistance, same as most assisted living facilities.

The fact that the family was not upset means absolutely nothing, if you would attend geriatric emergency you will unfortunately find a lot of children that would be OK that their elderly parents die.

The way the nurse respond was ridiculous. She acknowledged the fact that this patient needs CPR in order to survive, however she refused to do CPR and she refused to hand over the phone or ask anyone else if they are willing to do CPR.

It did not seem like she really cared that someone is dying in front of her eyes.

realtalk,

Why not judge her, you cannot judge someone when they do something that only pertains to themselves.

However when someone does something like this, I cannot see how judging comes into play.

Why must this become nasty? to all those posters that give low blows, please go away from this thread!

DNR isn’t the issue here.

When someone passes out, you do not withhold resuscitation because the patient MIGHT have a signed DNR, the DNT has to be present in order for it to be effective (this is in the preshospital setting).

The nurse did not state that the reason she refuses CPR is because the PT has a DNR signed, only because she is not allowed to save that persons life.

She coldly refused to give over the phone to someone else, she did not CARE that a life is ending in front of her eyes, this is a life that MIGHT have been saved should act differently.

realtalk,

who are you to decide what is better for this person, for the record there are many 80 year olds that have been successfully resuscitated and are living a regular life.

This did not happen in bed, nor was this woman found with an unknown downtime, which means that if she is successfully resuscitated chances are that she will have no or minor deficits.

Nurses do not go to school to learn how to decide on when someone should die peacefully, thats not what ACLS is all about.

The fact that the family wasnt upset means nothing, this is the normal American response, they are happy that she is no longer a burden. When I once successfully resuscitated a older patient and called the son for the medical history, the son was all mad, “why didnt you let her die?”

The fact that she had no problem that a human will die because of her inaction, (which includes not having someone else to CPR) and she fully knew this, is somewhat nazi like.

The big question is, why did she act like this on the phone.

She acknowledged that the patient needs CPR. Yet she refused to hand over the phone to anyone that would be willing to do CPR.

As someone that responds to such places frequently, I can assure you that there a many such ‘caring’ nurses.

Following company policy is as Popa pointed out the excuse nazis used.

And btw, there are quiet a few 80 year olds that I performed CPR on and walk each day to shull on their own.

To mod in bold, so if you anyways delete the post why close the thread, once the bad posts are deleted the thread remains ‘clean’.