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Wow! Boys like you are the cream of the crop. I agree with CTLLAWYER, you were being wredt to the wrong girls. There are many, many girls out there who are solid, frum and tick all the boxes of things you were looking for who DREAM of boys like you who are professionals that make time for learning. There are “heimeshe” girls who fit the bill, more MO girls who fit the bill and even BY girls who fit the bill.
@Reb you can stamp your feet too
I just wanted to address one of the responses that people are not blaming the Jews for some of these outbreaks. In the case of the Measles outbreak, that is certainly not the case. Taken from the CDC website (https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html)
Reasons for an increase in cases some years:
2018: The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018. Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to most of the cases. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018. This is the greatest number of imported cases since measles was eliminated from the U.S. in 2000.
I am a little lost in terms of what this discussion is really about, but the way I understand it, everyone deals with hardship differently and although one person might be insulted by a joke, it might be the coping mechanism of the other person. The best thing to do would be to express any hurt that a comment elicited and understand that the comment is not necessarily coming to harm and might be the way that a different person trys to help.
I just checked the feed. I was not trolling/joking! I am not saying that they need to be only into the physical and attraction is not only that. Attraction is a whole package, the couple must be “into” each other. A marriage that is built only on “Well he/she looks good on paper.” Is not what I feel makes a happy relationship. That is not to say that goals are not important! They are on top of the list, but if you have the same goals and don’t have any chemistry…that will be a tough marriage.
@ gavra_at_work
As much as I would love to have a system that wasn’t affected by money that is just unrealistic. If the couple is self-sufficient then you definitely have a point. So if the boy and the girl have jobs and salaries then money should not be discussed. If, on the other hand they will need support while in kollel or school or tuition paid, then money MUST be discussed before they get married!
Money is part of life and although people might place undue importance on it, ignoring it’s importance is not the solution.
@PAA, I love the fact that you bring up such interesting meforshim. But I just wanted to clarify that although it is true that ?????? would be allowed certain laxness, today they are considered ????? and are treated with all the stringency allowed by halacha
I think each couple has to decide for themselves. It definitely is a great way to keep the momentum going in between dates, but only if used sparingly. Having full conversations is a no-no and texting too early on fosters a false closeness.
To address WestGate, I never said that women should wait to get married and I also never said that a career should be placed before family. What I did say was that it was time that we stopped valuing a woman based on whether she was married or not.
As to a practical example: I am sorry that I can’t give a story, I can only speak from what I have seen amd heard. Most girls do not feel that they have any value if they are not married. As much as I understand that it is a huge fulfilment to have children, and I agree completely with that sentiment, there is no reason whatsoever for single girls to feel like “old maids” at 22 or for 19 year olds to feel intense pressure to start dating. We need to create an environment where we let our boys and girls develop into their own people and where they are valued by what they do and not by marital status, as encouraging as we continue to be as they try to find their zivug.
“A women’s tachlis in life is her family.”
Yet she does not have a commandment to have children…
You understand I don’t disagree that a woman achieves fulfillment by having a family, I just don’t agree with the pressure that we place on young women getting married. Marriage does not make someone a better person and I think it is time we valued the women in our community regardless of whether they are married or not.
The number one thing you must have is attraction.
Then ???? ????, middos, etc. the decision is yours.
“I don’t hope so. I don’t think there should be a school curriculum on what marriage is.”
Being realistic, don’t you think our children are educated about what a marriage is from the outside world? I would hope that children understand what a marriage is from watching their parents, but did you ever hear a parent explain to their child the hardships in their relationship with their spouse and how to overcome them?
If our children are being educated from the outside, shouldn’t we have a counter movement to make sure they get the right picture?
“Just seeing it! People dancing with it! You should feel like running to it and heartily kissing it!”
Exactly. But you can’t. You can only watch others do what you wish you could.
It is simply an example. You can put anything in there, but there is no difference if someone is “loves to dance” or “smart”. Why is it okay to say she does chessed and not okay that she has a job? With a job she can support a family and give tzedaka and with hobbies she becomes a dynamic person that can contribute to her community and those around her.
“You should train yourself, even if it is difficult, to enjoy and treasure the day watching the menfolk dancing joyously with the Torah.”
There are many things a person can train himself to do, why should they do this? Perhaps there is a better solution to enhance a woman’s joy on simchas torah then to force her to like something she does not. As long as the solution is halachically okay, why can’t our communities come up with a way to beautify the yom tov for both men and women?
Does anyone feel that perhaps we have an unrealistic view on what marriage is today because of all the exposure to the secular world? Do schools educate their students on what a true marriage is all about?
I also think in a world of instant gratification it is very hard to understand that a relationship like marriage is something that is built over time and does take a “leap of faith” that you and the other person can work together to build a healthy home and family.
Women deserve to be recognized by what they do and not by their marital status and I totally agree that unfortunately most girls categorize themselves by “single” or “married” as opposed to “does chessed”, “has a good job”, “loving family”, “loves to read”.
I just came upon this thread and wanted to tell keepclimbing that although it is really hard to always see your own self worth, you have to remember that you are a part of G-d and He ALWAYS loves you. You feel like He gave you the hardest life, but you will come out more pure from it.
We are a religion and a people that is all about celebrating life and using our lives to make a difference, you can make a difference too. Every day that you live adds something special and unique to the world that only YOU can bring. Know that those that will judge you by your externals are not people that you want in your life and that the people that you will ultimately find will be uniquely special in their own ways as well.
Gmar Chasima Tova,
Keep Climbing
Yes, I do feel left out when all the men are dancing. All the women do is talk, watch their kids (if they are married), talk some more, and maybe eat something. I would love it if there was some sort of program for women in shul. I started simply staying home because I wasn’t interested in going to watch the men dance in a circle (not to mention the random drunk men/boys that wander in and out)
Exactly right RebYidd
This is like a virtual reunion that I by mistake walked into 😀