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It depends. In meno’s example, we’re saying that the 90% is an accurate representation of the full group. In the jama case we’re saying that 8% is an accurate representation of the full group.
It depends on what? Numbers? Percentages? Whether the evidence supports your beliefs or not?
He’s also wrong about the textbooks. The yeshivos use textbooks, just not for the number of hours required by the new regulations.
Then there’s no such thing as evidence.
If it had been a “random few” as in Meno’s example, perhaps that would be a different story.
Perhaps? Why only perhaps?
Are you saying that 8500 isn’t enough?
Or are you saying that you can’t study people who didn’t receive MMR vaccinez to determine if MMR might be a cause of autism?
I don’t know about the former; I assume that’s enough, but I’m not a statistician.
The latter is of course ridiculous.
Because it is IRRELEVANT to the Question:
Of course it’s relevant because the despite the claim of 157, there’s not a single one that actually legitimately shows a link.
You’re afraid to post one because you know whichever you pick will be debunked.
This is more of a taunt than a legitimate objection.
It’s an exaggeration, not a taunt. Respond to the point, please.
At what point do you admit that you have more than enough and randomly removing a few will not make the results inaccurate?
In my view at this point in time, the only justification of removing anyone is if they weren’t subject to the initial risk.
Then in your view no study can ever be reliable unless every single human being on the planet is included.
MY name is Not Heath!
And doomsday isn’t doomskup.
It’s very disturbing that people, in an eis tzarah, want to bash other Yidden instead of coming together.
I have shown there are 100+ Studies Linking Vaccines to Autism –
Yet, you refuse to name a single one.
NO! I do NOT believe every study published by Real Scientists and Medical Doctors. I have posted the
FRAUD committed by Research Studies.Of course not every one, only the ones you want to.
You know, the ones supported by crackpots who think everything is a huge conspiracy theory.
DY -“Health (AKA ubiquitin)”
I posted many times – I don’t post on any other SN!
Heath (AKA doomsday), why should I believe you?
Meno: So if I were to start a blog, and on that blog write 1001 articles full of unscientific bogus studies claiming that autism was created by aliens from Jupiter, and then post here that there are over 1000 articles online linking autism to aliens, Doomsday wouldn’t have any problem with that?
Doomsday: If those studies were by real PHd Research SCIENTISTS and MEDICAL DOCTORS, I would be OK with that.
If a couple of “real PHd Research SCIENTISTS and MEDICAL DOCTORS” would say autism was created by aliens from Jupiter, and the vast majority of scientists said it wasn’t, doomsday would believe the crackpots.
I think that says all you need to know about doomsday’s relationship with sensibility.
If Vaccines are so Wonderful, Why does the Vaccine Industry need the GOVERNMENT to FORCE Vaccines
on Everybody?Because of illogical people like you.
Health (AKA ubiquitin) – what do you hope to gain by making fun of someone’s username and baselessly claiming that they’re sockpuppeting?
Yserbius, YOUR Article “About those RESEARCH PAPERS supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link”
AGREES with Doomsday that there ARE Research Papers supporting a Link between Vaccines and Autism!The vast majority of them aren’t even about autism and vaccines (the anti vaxxers, including doomsday, LIED about the subject matter).
The few that actually are about vaccines and autism all had serious flaws, such as confusing correlation with causation (which anti-vaxxers do regarding autism but don’t seem to have this issue with the drop in diseases correlating with use of vaccines), using a tiny sample size, misanalyzing data, etc.
If this article supports you, doomsday, then I guess you’re a pro-vaxxer.
This is a gezeira against all frum schools (particularly boys’ yeshivas). It’s very inappropriate for you to be inserting partisan anti-chassidic politics into this.
If private schools don’t offer enough time studying secular subjects
Who defines “enough”?
Why is more success than public schools not good enough to get less than 10% of the funding per student than the public schools get?
I didn’t say they were NOT valid.
That’s because you’re a liar, but in fact they’re not valid, so they don’t count.
Ubiquitin challenged you to pick any one of those 157 and he will show why they don’t in fact demonstrate a link. What are you afraid of? Being shown again to be a liar? You’ve shown that about 157 times, what’s one more?
Again, not discussing whether they are valid or not – just that they exist, lots of them!
Why should anyone care if there are “studies” which don’t legitimately show anything?
She hasn’t said anything new for the past 800 posts!
I think she’s managed to sneak in a bunch more lies. She doesn’t only lie on December 2nd, you know.
Psychology Today (PRO VAX Magazine): “In 1970 1 in 10,000 was diagnosed with Autism”
In the 1960s children got only FOUR Vaccines: Measles, Smallpox, DPT and Polio.
Around 1990 CDC began TRIPLING and then QUADRUPLING the number of Vaccines given.
And the Autism Rate went from 1:10,000 to 1:50Wait, why was the ratio so low if they were all vaxxed back then? According to you, there’s vaxxed and unvaxxed and nothing in between.
Also, you didn’t answer my point.
Why are the anti-vaxxers the only ones yelling?
To try and drown out the logic, sensible thinking, and legitimate scientific information the pro vaxxers are presenting.
If there a 100% UNVACCINATED Child who got AUTISM, that would have made
Headlines.Another lie.
Even antivaxxers don’t deny that unvaccinated children can get autism, they just made up that vaccines cause it to be more common.
DY
she isn’t feeling so well, she came down with the measlesRefuah sheleimah
So we see from here, that not sleeping is not being mevatel a deorysa, the only thing that there is, is a chiyuv, if you don’t have a hetter.
Whatever, semantics for the point of this discussion, the point is it’s a violation of halacha, just like eating in the house.
I found this sefer, where it says that the custom in Egypt was to be lenient about sleeping in a Sukkah, because the air is foul and there’s a concern that he may get cold.
But the air isn’t foul in Crown Heights, and nobody ever claimed that’s the heter!
Please stop bringing totally irrelevant “rayos” and defenses.
Can you source that the Petur of Tashvu KeEin Taduru only applies when you can’t eat/drink/sleep?
You are totally missing my point. I’m not denying that there’s a p’tur of mitztaer, I’m saying:
1) There’s something wrong with a form of supposed avodas Hashem which leads to unnecessary tza’ar to patter from a mitzvah
2) Most people not sleeping in the sukkah aren’t actually having this tza’ar.I don’t have a fully developed source which would specifically exclude psychological tza’ar from the din of mitztaer in sukkah, but neither do you have a source to include it.
Either way, that’s was never my argument, even if I grant it, my other arguments stand.
What’s the difference between propensity and likelihood?
Thoughts?
You must be a Yankees fan.
edited
Ubiquitin, how’s machla doing?
Keej123, you are spouting absolute nonsense.
Your whole issue with the way the study calculates the ratios is based on an assumption that MMR causes autism. The study is designed to test that assumption so obviously doesn’t assume it as a given.
Absolute nonsense.
NCB, he’s the only Democrat in the Senate who won’t chair a committee or subcommittee.
Chossid:
You’re making (at least) two big mistakes.
1) If someone will sleep, it’s a chiyuv to do so in the sukkah.
The Lubavicher “minhag” is to sleep outside of the sukkah.
2) The R’ma is specifically talking about when/where it’s cold, or married men.
Lubavicher bochurim sleep in the house even when it’s nice outside.
A n attached house that doesn’t have a proper garage to pull into, or a car port with less than 5 foot easement and the actual port 8.5 feet wide x 18 feet deep is illegal. In addition there are other rules. So just drive around and see for yourself!
Regulations have changed, and some are legally grandfathered in.
Businesses that do not use their driveways at night still prohibit parking there with “24-hour” signs. This is clearly dishonest.
No it’s not.
1. The study would have to be RANDOM who gets MMR and who does not. If Parents decide (as in this study) Healthy Normal children more likely to get MMR and children showing SIGNS OF AUTISM more likely NOT to get MMR.
More likely to skip MMR than other vaccines? Don’t you hold all vaccines cause autism?
I’m sorry, I miswrote. I meant it would be like comparing smokers who eat apples vs. non smoker who don’t.
If the outcomes were the same, I’d be pretty confident that smoking is okay.
Either way, do you admit that MMR doesn’t cause autism in kids who have had other vaccines?
It would actually be quite odd if a fourth pack a day didn’t have a negative affect.
Either way, it’s a poor analogy, because a fourth pack is more if the same, but vaccines are different from each other.
It would be like comparing smokers who also eat apples to smokers who don’t.
You made those numbers up.
Ignored are the hundreds of רבן בית של תינוקות who were summarily expelled from yeshivos
with no arrangements made to guarantee their chinuch.
Ignored are the hundreds of abused children who crying because they are made to feel like
they did something wrong when in fact their parents have made the decision that these children
cannot tolerate vaccines.
Ignored are the dozens of cases of serious shalom bayis issues where one spouse has seen
vaccine damage in some of their children, whilst the other spouse cannot bear to see the children
home, day after day.
Ignored are the cries from Jewish mothers who each have a horror story to relate as to why
they cannot vaccinate their children, yet they are being denied basic human rights that even children
who act most inappropriately are not treated that way.
Ignored are the feuds when relatives disinvite friends and family to simchos because they are
“untouchables”.
Ignored are kimpatorins who have many children home because they were hounded from
school and no siblings can offer to watch these “contaminated” children. Ignored are parents who
have left their jobs because they must now stay home to babysit their children.
Ignored is all civility.
Ignored is basic mentchlechkait.
All because “We believe in universal vaccination”.
Ignored.The fault lays squarely at the feet of the stubborn parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.
The rate of the no-MMR group is based on a random criteria of not getting MMR
According to you it’s not random, because not getting MMR should have a lower autism rate.
In a real Scientific Study it is RANDOMIZED which subjects get MMR and which do not. When parents select which children do not get MMR, it is the children who are showing signs of Autism who do not get MMR
As mentioned numerous times, you can’t choose random children to not vaccinate. It’s unethical.
You can’t have it both ways. You demand retrospective studies, then complain about the inherent flaws in a retrospective study.
These are scientific studies made by professionals. I’m sure they control for these biases as best as possible, and, for example, exclude autistic children who didn’t get vaccinated because there were already signs of autism before they were to receive their immunization.
Yes
In short, why are the no-MMR group and Yes-MMR group producing Autism at an equal rate?
Because MMR doesn’t cause autism.
Something is causing Autism – I don’t know what. THAT is a risk for everyone. I labeled it “Regular Autism”. What would you like to call it?
Autism. Whether the subject had an MMR vaccine or not.
By labeling some as “regular autism” and some as “MMR autism” you are making an assumption that there’s either a difference in the condition in MMR vaccinated subjects and those without MMR, or that MMR is a cause. Neither are proven, and that’s precisely what the study is trying to determine.
SHY, most of your friends are meshichists?
Regular non-MMR Autism
What is that? Did you make it up?
What is a risk ratio? What risk are you referring to?
Doomsday:
Routine vaccinations and child survival: follow up study in Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
Ines Kristensen, physician, Peter Aaby, anthropologist, and Henrik Jensen, statistician