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Debate about level of frumkeit in IDF is a separate issue……
You can’t separate it at all.
Let’s see an army run completely al pi Torah and then we can talk.
Meanwhile, it’s a spiritual minefield with many casualties.
sharing the burden.
That goes both ways…. When the spiritual burden falls on everyone, and everyone keeps the Torah and learns, we can talk about sharing the burden of defense.
You simply can’t argue from an era where so many important factors were so different and say we should do what they did.
Maybe we should use spears instead of jet fighters?
DY, what non-Torah path? Defending Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael?
No, not learning, arayos, chillul Shabbos, etc. You know, what happens to many who join the IDF.
Not even a democratically elected government has a right to tell young boys to embark on a non Torah path.
Also I am not deciding
Of course you are.
It’s a government elected by the people that came up with the crazy notion of equal sharing of the burden.
There you go again, saying different means unequal.
ZG, sorry, I lost you there.
but who gets to decide who is exempt and who has to don a uniform?
I would certainly hope not a secular government which couldn’t care less if all the chayalim go OTD ch”v, and in many ways encourage it.
And you certainly don’t get to decide that someone who is learning is therefore lacking derech eretz.
The basic concept of Derech eretz kadma ltorah dictates that it doesn’t make any sense to say that someone has to do your basic responsibility because YOU hold that by sitting in a bais medrash it is equivalent.
Actually, Chazal do, and there are enough people in the armed forces without the b’nei Torah, and the army ruins people’s ruchniyus.
Everyone has a responsibility to the tzibur, true, but arguing that everyone needs to fulfill that obligation in the same way is ludicrous. Should I consider you lacking in basic responsibility if you’re not on Hatzolah, or not a garbage collector, or not an accountant? After all, we need Hatzolah, the garbage needs to be picked up, and taxes filed. If you don’t do all of those, are you a bum?
And if you don’t think learning Torah is a benefit to the tzibur, you’re not just not agreeing with me or even gedolim such as Rav Shach (etc.), you’re arguing with Chazal.
So are you saying frum people do not need to follow the law because there is a Ran who we do not pasken like?
It’s not so poshut that we don’t follow the Ran, or that the Rambam would apply to the secular State of Israel.
Whether frum people should or shouldn’t follow the law depends on the law. Joining the armed forces is a tremendous
sakana in ruchniyus, so no, someone shouldn’t go to the army just because it’s a law.And the high part to Ki Va Moed
Regardless, the Israeli government does not hold of the Ran or ANYONE else for that matter. So there is really no point discussing halacha when the government will not abide by it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I believe the initial discussion of dd”d started in response to this statement of yours:
If you voluntary live there, please follow the law.
Nobody thinks the government cares if we pasken like the Ran or the Rambam (or whether the Rambam would apply to a secular government), you addressed the frum people living there.
Daas: You are twisting the Ran. As you correctly posted: “אבל במלכי ישראל לא לפי שא”י כל ישראל שותפין בה”
You do not have the right Bzman hazeh! I truly cannot comprehend how that Dina Delmachusa applies in any government where “יכול לומר להם אם לא תעשו מצותי אגרש אתכם מן הארץ”.I don’t understand. You don’t agree with the Ran? Therefore I twisted it? I’m lost
You’d be much better off saying we don’t pasken that way than twisting the Ran.
Also, according to the reason the Ran gives, there’s no difference between a secular government or religious one.
וכתבו בתוספות דדוקא במלכי עובדי כוכבים אמר דדינא דמלכותא דינא מפני שהארץ שלו ויכול לומר להם אם לא תעשו מצותי אגרש אתכם מן הארץ אבל במלכי ישראל לא לפי שא”י כל ישראל שותפין בה
Dina D’Malchusa Dina does not apply under a Jewish KING who follow the Torah.
If you think you need a monarchy, then dina dmalchusa dina shouldn’t apply at all – not in Israel, the USA, Canada, etc.
The Ran said Eretz Yisroel, not the State of Israel.
I don’t understand what you’re saying – most of the land governed by the State of Israel is in fact Eretz Yisroel.
DY, the Wikipedia says that holy sites ” are sites that religions considers to be of special religious significance”.
Care to list which other types of places might fall under Wikipedia’s definition and see if you would call all of them “holy places”?
I don’t need to add anything to what american_yerushalmi wrote to demonstrate that the IDF cannot be considered a “holy place” by any stretch of a Torah observant Jew’s imagination.
DY: So if I have one of the older USB flash drives containing files with the entire tanach with meforshim that I no longer use (its all on the cloud now) and want to dispose of, just trash it?
AFAIK, it’s definitely not shaimos and doesn’t need to be buried. You brought up an interesting point, though, that perhaps it should be disposed of respectfully and wrapped before being thrown out. I don’t know the answer to this.
Avi and Manitou, I didn’t say a word about whether or not the soldiers are performing a mitzvah. All I said was that the Israeli armed forces is not a “holy place”.
Also, they’re dafting yeshiva bochurim.
Daas: the US doesnt have active draft laws.
Exactly. It’s kind of silly to say how Israel is the only country which makes an exception to the draft when other countries don’t have a draft to begin with.
Durikg vietnam, if you were not in Yeshivish, you were drafted
Don’t you think most frum people did whatever they could to avoid going to the army?
I’ve never heard of wrapping a CD or tape before discarding it. I suppose a memory card would be the same, but since none contain actual letters and words, I’ve never heard that they can’t be disposed of normally. They’re not shaimos. Are they being considered as tashmishei mitzvah, such as wood from a sukkah or worn out tzitzis? Interesting.
As far as erasing Hashem’s name from a typical screen, most poskim have said it’s not a problem, and I understand that the reason is because the screen is constantly refreshing. In other words, it flashing on and off very quickly (too fast for our eyes to perceive) so when you turn it off, you’re not actually erasing it, you’re causing it to not flash back on.
Some screens (such as Kindle Paperwhite I believe) use what’s called e-ink, and turning a page or turning it off does actually erase.
I believe R’ Dovid Feinstein said these would be a problem if there’s Hashem’s name on it.
There was a problematic electronic “seforim library” device made with this technology. I don’t know if it’s still made.
No other country does that.
I’m pretty sure the US isn’t drafting yeshiva bochurim.
it is a holy place
You’re mamash off your rocker
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Of course they need to follow halacha.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1652356/big-carma-a-bunch-of-liars-and-ganavim.html
By Y Hofmann for 5tjt.com
The people against vaccinations and I appreciate that you have given equal-time with those who claim that vaccinations work. I am also an anti-braker and I think that you should give us equal time as well.
Essentially, there is a huge group called Big Carma. These are the car-manufacturers that claim that we should be changing our brake pads every two to three years. This is a big lie designed by Big Carma in order to make money. Do not believe Big Carma. Their recommendations are all lies Brake pads should never be changed because changed brake pads kill people.
Big Carma tells the world that there are warning signs to watch out for – when supposedly the brake pads are going.
Longer stopping distances
Low brake fluid—your brakes are worn out or you have a leak
Excessive brake pedal travel, with the pedal going almost to the floor before brakes engage
Brake pedal feels “soft” or “spongy” underfoot
Vehicle pulls to one side while braking
Pulsation or vibration through brake pedal or steering wheel while braking
Tendency for one or more wheels to lock up and skid while braking
Groaning, screeching, squealing, or grinding sound while braking
These are all lies. We all grew up with cars that had longer stopping distance. It is part of life no different than getting the measles. Most cars that are 3 years old or more that are in accidents had gotten their brake pads changed. Changing brake pads kill people. They cause accidents.HUNDREDS OF CASES
There are hundreds of cases, if not thousands of cases, where people had gotten their brake pads changed, and within 6 to 12 months they got into an accident. Big Carma will dismiss this as anecdotal.
There is also a study that says:
The older a car is, the more likely its driver will die in a crash, says a research paper from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Older cars have had their brake pads changed more times.
It turns out that a driver of a car 18 or more years old is 71 percent more likely to die in a bad crash than the driver of a car three years old or newer. A car 18 years or more is likely to have changed the braked bads at least five times.
The study showed that the risk to a driver in a vehicle 8 to 11 years old, for example, is 19 percent worse, and driving one 4 to 7 years old is 10 percent worse, than for drivers in those semi-new, 0-to-3-year-old cars.
Big Carma will tell you that there is no linkage between brake pad changes and accidents. They will say that older cars naturally are more dangerous. But we know the truth.
Anyone who doubts this article can read the study at the following website: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811825
So don’t listen to your mechanic and don’t listen to Big Carma. Your mechanic is just as much a liar as those pediatricians that tell us to vaccinate our children. Big Carma is just as bad as the Center for Disease Control. They are all lying in this vast conspiracy to make money.
CHANGING OIL IS BAD FOR THE ENGINE
Oh and also there is another thing. Changing the oil in your engine kills the engine. Oil changes are also a big scam, by Big Carma. In fact, Big Pharma and Big Carma are all the same.
Believe us. We know what we are talking about much more than GM, or the CDC. We have studied all of this. The statistics are bogus.
My point is the same as DY’s (though he is doing at better job at being succinct)
I think I just have less patience.
Less vaccines = Less Autism.
You contradict yourself. You dismiss a study which shows that another vaccine doesn’t change the rate of autism because the less vaccinated subjects weren’t completely unvaccinated.
We do Mitzvos because we are commanded to do so
That’s not what they’re saying.
I’m not sure why anyone thinks otherwise.
Because there are thousands of Lubavichers telling everyone to do mitzvos to bring Moshiach.
There’s representation on this very thread as well.
Other Countries give Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay LESS Vaccines the n USA, so Less Damage!
You’re contradicting yourself again. You disregarded studies which show that MMR added to other vaccines doesn’t cause autism because you didn’t consider more vaccines important. Now you’re saying they do cause more damage.
Make up your mind.
Were you wearing the same pajamas?
I think it got messed up when the site was converted.
It used to be monastery world?
But I dont understand why people care, so others are (obviously) enjoying themselves with a silly conversation, what is it to you?
You have your fun going in circles about first responders and vaccines, and they have their fun complaining about you going in circles. They’re obviously enjoying themselves. I don’t understand why you care. What is it to you?
In the interest of intellectual honesty, I’d like to point out the before Gimmel Tammuz, it was very Poshut to any Lubavitcher that Moshiach must come from the living. No one had ever come up with these diyukim of “it says Nehrag, not meis”. After Gimmel Tammuz however, many now realized that they had a problem reconciling their beliefs with the unfortunate reality. So there were two approaches, one was “true, Moshiach must be alive, but the Rebbe simply never was Nistalek, he’s still alive in a Guf Gashmi”, the other approach is that of course, the Rebbe passed away, however, Moshiach could be Min HaMeisim. While the second one is obviously less delusional, nobody would have ever thought that way before Gimmel Tammuz.
Just curious why the obvious third choice, that he’s not Moshiach, is so uncommon.
No.
Then your analogy falls flat on its face.
You don’t do 3-a-pack-smoker vs 4-a-pack smoker if you want to see if smoking causes cancer.
Do all vaccines contain the same ingredients?
NCB, you misread Mantou’s post. He referred to the gedoim joker, as in from a deck of cards. 🃏
If I claim that a bagel isn’t a vegetable am I saying I don’t consider it food?
Good analogy
But your argument will be used to OUTLAW Bris Milah and Torah Education.
Your ridiculous arguments will convince the government that people aren’t competent to make health care decisions.
All we’re saying is that these three “wants” are connected.
No, that’s not all you’re saying. You’re saying we’re supposed to do mitzvos with the intention and purpose of bringing Moshiach.
The example isn’t the point. I’m being hypothetical.
Laskern, what if I knew that performing a certain mitzvah would delay the arrival of Moshiach?
Can you explain to me what they are saying?
I think they’re saying that doing mitzvos for the purpose of bringing Moshiach, meaning with that primary intention and goal, is a stirah to doing mitzvos with the intention and goal of following Hashem’s command.
Not that they aren’t both His ratzon, just that our motive for doing mitzvos is to fulfill the specific ratzon that we perform those mitzvos, not the ratzon that the geulah arrives (although it might in fact hasten it).
how you guys come to the conclusion that Moshiach and Hashems rotzion are a stirah.
Nobody said it was a stirah.
If you repeat enough times, it magically becomes TRUE!
Oh, the irony
1200 studies, revealing the research that the vaccine industry does not want you to know!
How many have you read?
1. Increased risk of Developmental neurologic IMPAIRMENT after high exposure to THIMEROSAL containing VACCINE in first month of life.
“because of its observational design, this study is subject to several biases, including the inability to link specific patients to vaccination records, the population estimation method of measuring ethylmercury exposure, and the inability to assess vaccination avoidance. Additionally, numerous other studies by these authors—in which they claim an association between thimerosal and autism—have been rejected on the basis of flawed study designs.”
Debunked.
You liar.
(The rest as well)
At this point, you’d have the say the odds of him being reelected are higher than were the odds of him being elected in the first place.
Both 90% and 8% could be valid sample sizes
Is sample size a number or a percentage? Shouldn’t percentages be irrelevant?
If I start with 1 million subjects, but need to remove 95% for whatever reason, wouldn’t I still have a sample size of 50 thousand?