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Mik5, it is important to note that he is only speculating.
I agree with the comment there that they had an opportunity to make a big kiddush Hashem by keeping Shabbos without compromise.
ZD, pikuach nefesh makes absolutely no sense.
Would everyone please stop worrying about Ivanka Trump’s observation of halacha. No one is holding her up as a model of frum womanhood. It’s unfair to her, and unfair to OJ’s (orthodox Jews).
and
Why does anything this family does religiously surprise anyone, one way or the other.
The issue for me is not their personal level of observance; it is, first and foremost, the claimed “heter” which, even if theoretically legitimate for this situation (although it makes no sense as reported), is sure to be copycatted in other situations.
I think there’s a similarity between this and another famous situation which took place on Shabbos.
The point was simply that it’s Loshon Hora.
Then you seemed to have missed the point of what you copied from Imamother. That post was saying that the intention of those objecting to what they did was to gossip.
That was a very poor way of defending your opinion that it is lashon hora.
Your opinion is wrong. If nobody knew what they did, it would be lashon hora. However, since it was plastered all over the news, it is a mitzvah l’farseim that you are not allowed to put yourself in a position of pikuach nefesh intentionally.
You’re missing the point.
Fine, so what pearls of of wisdom are you gleaning from Imamother?
Yes, I edited.
Jared Kushner: Your contract to work at the Trump Administration is conditional upon your attendance at the inauguration balls and after parties.
The media and other nations will be watching and I refuse to have you as part of my administration if you and Ivanka fail to show up for any reason whatsoever, including your right to religious freedom.
If you want to take this position which is of great importance to our nation, be there with Ivanka.
Sincerely,
Trump
Subsequently Jared and Ivanka took this contract to their rav. The rav gave his psak. Here we are.
You forgot to mention that Jared Kushner is so poor, that his family would starve to death without this job, hence, it’s pikuach nefesh.
“It’s the frum version of celebrity gossip magazines. Some women need an outlet… and by posing it as concern for Judaism, they (think they) don’t have to worry about lashon hara.” (quote from ImaMother in a thread on the same topic)
I’m not sure how you know what my (or anyone else’s) motivation is here.
I disagree with him.
Iacisrmma and Lightbrite, that’s ridiculous. There’s no “requirement” for them to go to a post inauguration party, or the inauguration itself.
I’m sure it would have been very awkward for them not to attend, but that’s it.
The CR isn’t yet ten years old.
Mazel Tov, though, on the tenth anniversary of your Yeshiva World account.
How come this topic isn’t lashon harah? It’s all speculation and none of your business
When Shabbos is publicly desecrated, I think it is a mitzvah to voice one’s opposition.
Even if we do disagree, it doesn’t reflect on Jared and Ivanka, it reflects on the Rabbi who gave the psak! If they had decided for themselves, I can see where they’d be wrong, but they asked the question. Isn’t that what they’re supposed to do?
You are responsible for choosing to whom you ask your shailas.
People in government need to obey security procedures. Political Assasinations are a real threat.
It would likely fall under the category of Pkuach Nefesh
Nonsense. They didn’t have to go.
I was once given a heter by a prominent respectable posek to take a cab home from the hospital on shabbos with a patient who had difficulty walking. (He only told me after we had already walked home, so it wasn’t a psak l’ma’seh for that occurrence, but he said it would have been muttar.)
A choleh often gets a heter for violating a shvus, and that should never be applied to a non-choleh situation.
We’re always hearing here – ask your LOR. I think that whatever one thinks about the President, the tshuva, or Jared K and Ivanka T, it is wonderful to see a person in the public eye ask a shaila and abide by the tshuva.
I always hesitate to say that, because not every “LOR” is a competent posek.
If the area has a dangerous reputation and the only safe way to return home is via car, why a rabbi would tell you to go?
Good question indeed. One is not allowed to intentionally put oneself in a position where he/she will need to be mechallel Shabbos.
I will come to yichusdik’s defense and concur that he has been much milder. I don’t think he deserves to be suspected of recidivism.
I guess I was wrong earlier.
I know what he says. Quiting it doesn’t change the meaning.
To get to your faulty understanding, you need to skip words.
You can’t decide on your own which circles have chashad and which don’t. The halachah is said for people who follow Shulchan Aruch, so if you think chashad doesn’t apply to nice frum girls, you are obviously mistaken.
What footnote? If you mean the ???? ???, which is what I’m referring to, he says no such thing. It is a chiyuv, just not based on p’ru ur’vu.
If you think it doesn’t apply today, you are misinformed.
That’s not what chashad means. In fact, chashad would not apply if she lives in a place where there are only women.
I’d ask you to consider, DY, that struggling with Hashem and struggling against Hashem are two entirely different concepts.
Please explain.
I don’t think I made it very complicated.
I don’t know why you think chashad doesn’t apply. Did it apply in the time of the Shulchan Aruch?
I also wonder how there can be an opinion that it’s assur for women to posken. Poskening is something that everyone must do on some level all the time.
Not everything is called hora’ah.
My impression in general was that the first opinion is the halacha l’maaseh. Do you know how contemporary poskim posken on this?
I asked one posek, and she said it’s muttar.
(I’ve heard even a mod can possibly be a woman)
Oy, what has this world come to?
All the theories are nice, and I’m sure Hashem loves the vast majority of us, but there are p’sukim which clearly say that are certain types of people who Hashem hates.
Just make sure you’re not one of those, and Hashem will love you.
Where there is chashad.
I didn’t say it doesn’t mean to struggle, I said it doesn’t mean to struggle with Hashem. ?? doesn’t always mean Hashem, e.g. ?? ???? ?????.
I also didn’t say life doesn’t have its struggles, they’re just not against Hashem, they’re against the yetzer hora. I don’t see how my words can be taken as denying the concept of bechirah.
I also think the last line wasn’t necessarily directed at you. IITFT has a unique writing style, and I wouldn’t take anything personally.
Yes, R’ Dovid Auerbach.
He doesn’t actually refer to written psak, but I don’t know that there’s a difference. Either way, it’s exceedingly rare.
He also brings the ??”? in ??”? ?”? (mistakenly, as ??”?), and if you look there, he says women cannot pasken.
Not a commandment as in one of the 613 mitzvos, but depending on the circumstances may indeed be obligatory.
Writing piskei halachah is for guyz, not girlz.
Except in one of the open orthodox threads.
A single girl has an obligation to reproduce due to the commandment of pru-rebu.
No, women are not commanded in P’ru Ur’vu.
Yichusdik, do any meforshim learn the posuk that way? Targum Unklos says it means struggle in front of G-d, and Targum Yonoson translates it as struggles with the angels of G-d.
Agav, I didn’t read the last two sentences as an attack on you. I though he changed gears and was making a general statement.
???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???, ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???’, ????????, ????? ???? ?????, ???? ???? ????”? ??? ???? ????, ???? ???? ?? ??????, ?????? ??? ??? ???, ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??????, (??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?”? ???????) ??????? ????? ??????. ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????, ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????, ??? ???? ???? ???.
but I think that Am Yisrael does refer to all the people in Am Yisrael.
Why?
Particularly, I think if a person acts in a way which excludes himself from klal Yisroel, that pasuk would not apply.
Well if He loves Am Yisrael as a whole, He also loves each one of us.
That does not follow logically.
I might like a certain restaurant, but not all items on the menu.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14261&st=&pgnum=399&hilite=
It is referring to Klal Yisroel as a whole.
I think it would be very problematic for anyone to walk away from this thread with the conclusion that a Rabbi can order them to marry someone whom they don’t want to marry.
I didn’t listen to the shiur, but blubluh didn’t say that that wasn’t said. He said a rabbi can’t order someone to marry a specific person without knowing both parties.
“ahavti eschem amar Hashem…”
It’s a b’feirush’e Avraham Fried song.
Neville Chamberlain/Chaim Berlin.
One of the all time great CR names.
:???? ?? ????
??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????, “???? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???????”, ????? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ????
It’s a teshuvah from Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l about this subject. He says it is assur.
I don’t think there’s anyone who disagrees.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=921&st=&pgnum=115&hilite=
Bottom line: No, it’s not appropriate.
Is it allowed in bais din? Dayanim are not doctors.
I don’t know.
Kollelman made a comment above about ex-parte consultation.
A hearing is not a panel, and that wouldn’t be true, (how could they believe her charges if the issue wasn’t raised), or relevant to the truth of the charges.
I think he meant this “ordeal”. As opposed to it having been an issue brought up over the years.
You’re assuming a typo? If he says so, okay, but that’s not what he wrote.