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Now let’s see if we can figure out what his other screen name is. Is it one of the moderators, just to add some spice to the conversation? Hey, y’know? It’s growing on me. Why would the moderator let such a conversation go on if it’s not really him, and the Moderator is the only one who took him really serious! McCarthyism?
Check the Midrash.
Do you work for the KGB?
mw13, you can’t make up my position and then argue with it. I did not mention what you said in my argument, and you did not refute or mention what I wrote. Only helpful Helpful addressed my last point.
BeHappy, are you mosherose? We are discussing a screen name, and are trying to decide if he is for real or not. Am I falling into a trap by answering you?
Strong instead of B, And EM instead of I.
It’s very improbable that he is genuine. He doesn’t join any conversation, or say anything other than his rubber stamp. Also, someone that has such different views than the whole crowd and doesn’t find any like minded comrads, would leave. When I saw how the other site was full of Hashkafos that I despised of, I left. Neither would he have kept quiet on this thread (now it’s too late).
I wonder if he has another screen name in which his Dr. Jeckel side gets to have a say.
He doesn’t sound for real. I forget which thread it was, but there was a discussion questioning a Halacha and he posted his rubber stamp there, too. Even someone with extreme Haskafos knows that Torah is to be discussed.
The kind of person that makes people feel good is the one that actualy means it. That is the real trick: to first tell yourself or think so in the first place, and then tell the guy Devarim Hayotzim Min Halev. I know people who spray wonderful words at everyone, and I have a very hard time talking to them. You just know when someone is saying something because the words are nice.
WIY, Is it a valid conversion if he thinks it’s fine to pass in front of someone Davening :?)
island, there was a large
To those who don’t understand or have a problem the original question,
This is a term that people use. The question is, what is its usage. I don’t recal using it myself, because it’s not a ‘real’ description. But I would say that it refers to the kind of person who has his own ambitions, the person who isn’t afraid to keep himself company. This is much more than just saying the truth or not being two faced. A person is more of a real person, so to speak, when his actions are based on his own plans and he’s aware of himself. The opposite of this is someone who always tries to elicit a laugh from anyone; who in a sense doesn’t live for himself; who depends on others for his identity.
Look, that’s a possible distinction, but not the kind that you make up without a Kasha to answer. I think the ball lies in your Rav’s hands.
Just a thought: Although many of us have a hard time keeping a focus on the meaning of the words, we are still aware of who we are praying to and standing in front of. We still want him to listen, and we say at the end, Yihyu Leratzon Imrei Fi. Therefore there is no reason for the Shechina not to be there. In other words, although you stopped thinking about De’ah, Bina and Haskel, you still think about Baruch Ato Hashem.
But do you agree at least not to knock people over?
Also, it is Assur to knock over someone Davening, even if you are already passing through. I think we can all agree on that one.
The Gemara says already that we don’t have Kavana and the Halacha exists nevertheless. But, I have heard numerous Heteirim through the years. There are stories of Gedolim who stayed out of Shul until everyone finished.
There are a few things involved here. Walking in front is Assur because of Kavana. Passing through or sitting, for a non-Mitzva is a problem all around because of the presence of the Shechina. Perhaps the less Kavana someone has, the less you have have to worry about the first part but the second, albeit less Chamur, problem still exists.
There is a concept in other areas of Halacha that you can’t Assur someone else’s property. I’ve heard this applied to our topic, too. In the isles and even near other places, when the person is sort of stepping into others’ territory, he is giving up or can’t Assur his 4 Ammos.
We can always see Medakdekim being careful about this, but it’s hard to give numbers because most people stay by their place throughout the Tefilla.
Also, learning the Halachos gives you a connection to the time.
Vegetarians is a much better example than your women and black examples. However, the issue here is that we are not stopping them from doing what they want – the equivalent to stopping us from eating meat, we just want to keep our own turf, too. We, the normal people don’t want the government sanctioning the breakdown of the concept of a normal marriage. Like I wrote earlier, they can get their visitation and inheritance rights without doing this. The only reason they are being so vociferous about it is to make US teach OUR kids that our own values aren’t true.
I get the feeling, SJS, that you feel that you owe the world everything for the fact that you are Jewish. While I am thankful for the tolerance America offers, I don’t have that complex.
One more point is not to evaluate yourself during Shabbos, asking yourself what you are presently feeling. Sometimes after the fact it is easier to look back and realize how wonderful it was. Focus rather on how to utilize this holy time, and that makes the Kedusha a part of you. Hashem gives up these feelings sometimes to show us what we can reach. You didn’t falter by not retaining it – it was a gift of being to gain a real live understanding of what levels there are to attain.
May your life be filled with Kedusha.
Because it’s a waste of a thought if you don’t ‘get the message out.’
Sometimes I feel like I’ll actually make a difference. It’s also fun, of course – it’s like giving a speech without having the fright that comes along with it.
Maybe we can start a thread on Would You Be Willing To Divulge Your Identity. After some shouting matches and a few silly statements and jokes that fall flat . . _ would you be willing to still show your face?
mosherose to the rescue!
And you don’t believe in Mutav Sheyapil Atzmo Letoch Kivshon Ha’eish, that it is worth throwing oneself in a fire rather than to embarras someone.
The three things that the Gemara mention where it is permitted to lie are cases of humility, modesty and consideration. To transgress an Aveira in order to say the truth is ridiculous.
According to psychologists (and common sense, of course), lack of discipline to our children causes a disconnect rather than a connection. The child doesn’t feel that he is living up to a standard and is left on his own. When you demand something from him, that is a psychological grasp, or holding his (mental) hand.
In the same vain, we feel Hashem’s love when he answers our Tefillos, but there is also a very strong and close connection to be realized when we get a message of discipline, too. For example, once I was in a rush and therefore didn’t want to go a little out of my way for someone. As I went on my way the road became blocked, and I ended up having to go down that same street that the person wanted to go. This is not a Ness, but when it happens right away and in the manner of instant feedback you feel the closeness of Hashem as a father guiding His son.
Why is that a Stira? Everything is planned, but for some there are better plans.
I never saw someone be Modeh in the CR. Is it just a trick to get me to be Modeh :?)
I agree that it is of marginal importance but I wonder if it is really global or just regional, or perhaps a global shift. It seems that whenever there is a heatwave in one place, somewhere else is getting its coolest record. Besides the fact that the data was found to be rigged, the real estimate was for one or two degrees change over a century. Therefore, how can they declare on hot days that it is a display of global warning?
WIY, Oh so that’s you?
Reb Menashe Klein writes that there is an understanding today when someone Shtells in middle of nowhere or even in a packed Shul, that it isn’t his space and people may pass. I think there are others, too, who pulled up Heteirim.
First of all, perhaps you are not aware, but they are very aggressive. They made the schools change their books to redefine family. They would go after anyone who publicly denounces such activity. In Europe, a preacher was sued or arrested. My main issue is the fact that they are making the general public redefine something which is against their morality. All those abilities that you mention can be granted by consention forms, and if not, I’m fine with changing that. But we don’t have to hinder our morality. Remember, we aren’t against a people, we are against a behavior.
Do you have any problem with those who call themselves Messianic Jews? I do, and I believe I have a right to. It is highjacking something which belongs to someone already.
They hated Jews. That’s all. They knew that we don’t believe in their beliefs, and that bothered them. In America it was decided, for the benefit of those who were tormented in other lands, to tolerate someone who doesn’t hold your beliefs. They never agreed to accept that Christianity was wrong! Neither would they tolerate us redefining Christianity as The Religion of Plunder.
That is bad news. You just dismiss a Gemara like that? I would much faster dismiss something from the Moreh Nevuchim, like most of Klal Yisroel. The Rambam himself doesn’t use what he wrote there, in the Yad.
Anyhow, the Rambam starts off by bringing alot of Pesukim showing that everything happens for a reason. Then he says that this is only for humans – there is no Gezeira from Hashem specifically on any specific animal or leaf that it should fall or be caught. Then he goes on to say that since the special Hashgacha is due to the Sechel, it follows that the more you got the more Hashgacha you’ll have. For an example, he mentions the special Shmira that the Avos had. Then he mentions that Risho’im lose their Hashgacha, they lose their Shmira, and will certainly get hurt soon enough. What you wrote here, to someone else, is the outlook that the Rambam attributes to Aristotle.
What the Rambam writer about Risho’im is nothing new. It is a Pasuk, Vehelachtem Imi Bakkeri… This is also with Din. It is in fact what Chazal say about Mipi Elyon Lo Tetzei Haraos. Whenever something bad happens, it wasn’t Hashem’s hand punishing, it was Hashem leaving the culprit alone.
If what you say is true, we wouldn’t make a Birchas Hagomel. You would have to thank Chance instead of Goodness.
Another point: The Mekubalim say that even what the Rambam says is a Mikre, is also from Hashem. This too is not necessarily refuting the Rambam’s words. They also would agree that there is no Gezeira on each leaf. Being, though, that Hashem made the world and its weather and all the randomness comes from Him. So the idea is that ever thin that happens is Hashem’s plan. Even, and especially, the Mekubalim agree that there are Mazalos at play. Yet they still say that everything is from Hashem.
There goes that silly argument about blacks and women… Explain please, what is moral about not giving blacks an equal footing? I’m talking about wanting to stay up, while you talk about wanting to stay down. Besides, blacks and the others are a people who were singled out unfairly. This is a behavior which we don’t have to accept.
Again, and again, nobody is denying any rights, we are denying redefinition of morality. Who exactly was born with the right to change everyone else’s values?
SJS, The idea here is that being a free country, we won’t stop them. However, the movement is an aggressive one. They force it on everyone to accept such behavior as normal. That is called infringing on the rights of normal people to maintain our own values and the right to impart our moral values to our children. Please don’t equate maintaining morality with racism.
The marriage contract thing is only one rung in their ladder to change the whole society. They don’t need it that badly for any other purpose. And there too, what’s so bad about being allowed to keep our definition of the word? If they really need a contract they can use all the other new words; ‘marriage’ is taken.
WIY, your first point bothers me, too. Your second point, though, not really, or not that much. The Gemara says that the reason the nations are still around is because they don’t sell human flesh in the meat market and they don’t write a Kesuba for this garbage. In other words, this is the bottom. It is in fact the worst thing.
Until recently, I didn’t have much of an opinion about his actions. It was a little weird that he his on his own and rails against the leaders of today’s Jewry. This recent thing of having an outsider read off a derogatory speech about Rebbes and Rabbanim is just way too far.
Wow! That’s some lengthly way of saying, “I didn’t understand, please explain.”
Listen closely, I’m talking about a GEMARA. What do you say about that GEMARA. Do the Rishonim you mention argue on the GEMARA? I’m willing to expound somewhat on the difference between the two concepts, but please tell me, how do you learn that GEMARA?
Now, the point is that although Hashem decides everything that happens, not always do we get a private audience and our need/wants catered to, personally. The difference is in the treatment, not in the attention. I mentioned the fact that the Rambam refers to the Gemara about the Amora pointing out where rain is needed. This is a hint to what concept the Rambam is discussing.
You are ignoring the Gemara that I mentioned, and that is not fine. As I said earlier, the Rambam and the Ramban are talking about being cared for on a personal basis. That is the literal Hashgacha Pratis, personal attention. We are discussing the idea that everything is preplanned. This is mentioned in the Gemara, Geonim, and Rishonim as well.
It is a mistake to confuse the two concepts, no matter how common the mistake.
Are you trying to tell me that the Rishonim are arguing on the famous Gemara of Ein Adam Nokef Etzbao Ad Shenigzer Alov Milemaalo?
Like I said, they are not talking about what you are talking about. If you’d look at the Rambam, you would see that as an example of the ‘Hashgacha Pratis’, he references the Gemara about the Amora who would go through his fields and point out exactly which spots needed rain, and it rained exactly in those areas. That is definitely a Hanhaga reserved for Tzaddikim.
The point of Machlokes among the Rishonim is if animals also have Hashgacha or just in the general sense.
Wolfish, so you are from the religion-is-cruel camp? I mean, we shake Lulav. How is that any different than a group of hoodlums brandishing knives?
I’m discussing the idea that they are trying to force their values on the rest of us, and you talk about hate mongers. It seems to me that they actually succeeded in their quest to reeducate the masses. Just read the last few comments and realize the ideology espoused.
Yes, I reserve the right to maintain my morals. It’s actually weird that you guys turn the tables and aquate immorality with the just cause of non-discrimination, and the refusal to drop normal, clean and moral standards with mean behavior. This is the fruits of the whole campaign to smear moral people, as if morality equals aloofness and cruelty.
They worked hard to make ‘moralist’ a derogatory term, and they found a customer in you. If I don’t let you spit in my face, I obviously would never hold the door for you, right?
Please realise when you are duped.
SJS, It’s not about their rights, it’s about ours. Nobody is stopping any of them from doing what they want. They are infringing on us and want to force us to redefine our values and bring up our children with values that are disgusting to us and our father in heaven. Whether they beleive in Hashem or not doesn’t make a difference. We do, and we love him too; we refuse to allow among ourselves disgusting acts and beliefs. Who are they to tell us what to believe? Did you notice that not even Rabbi Yehuda Levin is saying to arrest all those Posh’im? It is about our rights, not theirs.
Please keep in mind that there is no real Issur to lie.
YIKES!! Ouch!
Lying is a bad Midda and it says Dover Shkarim Lo Yikon Lineged Einai, and it might even be an extension of Midvar Sheker Tirchak. However, the Pshat of Midvar Sheker Tirchak is refering to Beis Din. The Gemara has a separate Drasha that you must keep your word. Even this is not refering to a coversational lie.
Therefore, in this case where there is a chance of embarrassing someone, which is very Chomur, definitely that is Doche the good Mida of saying the truth.
We are all familiar with the Gemara about Kallah Naeh, where Shamai asks Hillel, how can you lie and praise the Kallah as being beautiful even when it is not the case. Hillel answers, if you bought an item, wouldn’t you want to hear that it is good?
Now, it seems that the question of how can you lie was never answered. The answer is that the idea of not lying is to not be the one espousing negative existence. In this case, however, the truth will mess up the existence and will be counter productive in the building of the world; therefore, on the contrary, lying is building. Hence, lying is the truth.
d a, within Daled Amos is also good.
Another trick is to avoid the question in some brilliant way. You can tell him that you’re not from here, since you aren’t currently in your place. Or, ask him if it is okay to sit where you are.
The Gemara says plainly that a person does not hurt his finger unless it was so decided in heaven.
Besides the fact that there’s a difference between the Madreiga of a personal Hashgacha and Hashgacha Pratis as we call it today, which means that it all is Hashem’s plan.
Besides that, the discussion among the Rishonim is about animals.
Reb Jay, that’s actually a simplistic understanding of the words of those Rishonim. To borrow a phrase: you have to be acquainted with the whole outlook in order to properly understand.
The Kotzker has many Vehrtlach checking true concepts taken too far. We all know of the Rambam about going B’derech Hamemutza. However, as with all great rules, this too can be overdone. We’ve all heard of those that complain about frumkeit or about learning most of the day.
I thought of a great Mashal: one extreme is to fast, and the other extreme is to eat all your waking hours. Therefore, the middle road is to eat for 8 hours, right? Well it depends on your sights, what is your right end and what is your left end. So, one extreme is to learn all my waking hours and the other extreme is to learn a minimal amount.
Anyhow, he is saying don’t be so proud that you think Avodas Hashem is extreme and that you are going in the middle of the road. The donkeys go in the middle of the road.
The fact that the Satmarer Rebbe said it over is proof to my interpretation.
We find this Hanhaga mentioned throughout the generations that Jewish attire should be different. However, let us not forget that it did of course resemble the general type of clothing. Just as today, we all year shirt and pants, but the pants are dark and the shirt is white.
I must mention that I did find instances where Gedolim where not recognized as Yidden. That would seem that the clothing was not different. But perhaps with the above explanation it is not a Stira. Yiddish Levush is separate but not necessarily does it stand out.
Please realize that nobody Paskened that we must wear this color or that kind of hat. The idea is that we dress like a Yid, whatever the Yiddish dress currently is. Over time things do change. First those who don’t care about Levush take on the current style. Then, businessmen dress according to business standards, and so on, until the greatest hermit will finally button his shirt.
So maybe you should be here, not there. Anyhow it’s hard to get offended when we both know that neither of us knows who the other one is.
Please post the sources if and when you can.
Baba Pashuta Yid, if you are refering to the Zohar Chadash in Balak, there are different Girsaos. Perhaps it wasn’t meant to be really clear there either, especially being that it passed. We might have a Cheshbon but we don’t necessarily know the bumper date. But I’d still rather hear a better Terutz.
On a lighter note:
Perhaps you can’t know when he’ll come because some say that he already came.
Do you mean this?
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This is from http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/?????_????_????_????_?