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Sam2 – Why are you ignoring the Rema?
Sam -Long time -no speak.
“Most Achronim don’t read Tosfos as Shittuf being Muttar for a Goy and no one (and I mean no one) Paskens like that Meiri.”
The Rema does and that’s good enough for me.
recipes -“R’ Elyashiv, R’ Nisim Kerelitz, R’ Vosner, which say Bipashtus even if you eat a drop it’s Hamotzi.”
They have the right to Pasken this way and if they are your Rov -you should listen to them.
If you look in the Biyur Halacha over there he brings down a Taz
that says -“that the meaning of the Mechaber is only when you’re Koveah Seudah”. Otherwise it’s a Mezonos.
A good example of this Mechaber is a pizza slice, which R’ Moshe Z’tl wrote in his Teshuva like the Taz I just mentioned. (IDK if he mentions this Taz, but he writes it’s Mezonos.)
I posted above -“Ya’ know 20 years ago all the Farfrumta guys I know started with there is no such thing as “Mezonos rolls”.”
So why are they Farfrumt -look at these Poskim that hold this way?
Because since when do American Jews run to the Israeli Poskim when we had the Godol here in America holding it’s Mezonos?
HaLeiVi -“Health, I don’t think the Bracha comes from the Rav Hamachshir. I’ve heard of many such instances where the Rav was contacted and said that the Bracha, or some other non-Kashrus Halachik fact, was not his doing.”
Oh and it’s just a coincidence that all the different restaurants tell you the hamburger rolls etc. are Mezonos. And you see from OC:168 SK: 24 that even eating the Mezonos roll with meat you only have to wash & make Hamotzay if you become full from the amt. that you’re eating.
Mr. Doniel -“Mezonos bread is a stira. Uunless you can taste the apple juice, how can you consider it mezonot?”
MezoNOS pronunciation is a Stira to pronunciation mezoNOT!
Now where did you get this from? Perhaps you mistranslated the OC:168:7?
Recognizing the taste is not the same as tasting apple juice. I can taste the difference between egg Challah and water Challah and so can most people, even though they both taste like Challah, and that’s why these rolls (made from apple juice) are Mezonos.
The Shelah says that Pas (bread) that is mixed with milk (the same with other stuff like apple juice) and there is no water at all just milk alone, and the taste of the milk is recognized well – acc. to e/o this is Pas Haboh Bekissnin and you make a Mezonos.
So this is why nowadays you see on the package of some rolls – made with 100% apple juice.
phdmom -“both to deal with it, but also to empower them. i would role play with them how they’d like to see themselves responding to said bully, teaching them to communicate firmly, assertively and respectfully. healthy communication skills is something that all kids should learn.”
I was bullied as a kid and as a teenager and noone ever cared -so I wanted to make sure my son didn’t have to go through the same thing. When he started getting bullied in the latter part of elementary school my wife (now ex) felt we should do nice things for his class and they would respond in kind. I think we made a Chanukah party for his class, I’m not sure right now because it’s been a few years. He was popular for a short while, but the bullying restarted. So we decided to send him to Karate, even though this was against the “Rules”. (A lot of things are against the rules like Karate, internet, movies, TV. And a lot are Ok like being bullied by Rebbeyim, classmates. Also Chutzpa is tolerated in lots of places. And I could go on.)
Doc Mom -While I agree with assertiveness, it’s not going to work a lot of the time with Kid bullies because kids don’t hesitate to get violent, esp. when they are the bullying type. See Rabbi Al’s post.
So actually the Karate worked out nicely. He learned self-confidence and even though he was smaller than others he learned how to defend himself from their violence.
Nowadays, noone would try to start up with him – he grew up to be a big and broad guy – bigger than me (I’m just avg. height).
Teddy Roosevelt said – “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”
RABBI AL -“The Dr. was dismissed, and I still got it bad, and those rebbe’s and rosh yeshiva now also, are saying they are experts.”
I wish you could post their names here, but YWN would never allow it. I know two molesters who are Menhalim but would never try to post their names because since YWN can’t confirm it -they are scared of LH. I’m not saying YWN is wrong, but as a community we haven’t even come close to exposing what’s going on with our children. We haven’t even touched the tip of the iceberg.
But please tell us what neighborhood this happenned in.
Wow -sounds like a cat fight.
Candy -Don’t worry about these entrance exams too much. If you got good grades in your school years -they look at that more.
And when you go to school -don’t just study to regurgitate material -sometimes you will have to do this when you’re short of time, but the purpose of school is to gain knowledge that you’ll retain in the future. I know many people who have gone through school and have become practioners in medicine, but don’t know a real lot. And that’s because they were never interested in medicine, but just studied to get through. Yea, they passed, but they aren’t good medical practioners. This is the goal of school – to be good at what you do. Yea, you need good grades, but more importantly you need to retain the material you learn.
shmendrick -“Health – you seemed to have guessed who I am, yes, related to RY. Now you can speal with more derech eretz.”
Why do you think I was talking about you? I was actually refering to ZDad. I don’t know who you are, nor do I care to, unless you want to give me some money for straightening you out here in the CR.
ZD – You’re off. There is a big difference to be Mattir Agunas than to break normal Halacha in the first place. Throughout the generations the Poskim were always trying to be Mattir Agunos with Kulahs. This prenup and the NY State “Get” law just throws out Halacha that Chazal instituted. Actually, all these things do is prevent people who follow these two things, even by accident, from remarrying. Because now, most Frum people who keep Halacha, won’t marry them.
WIY -“They must be very yeshivish and really “shtark” or just playing you because I know many Lakewood people and this is not the norm.”
I think he might be related to a RY of BMG. And it is the norm for many from BMG.
anon1m0us -“Naysberg
Please list ONE mitzvah D’ Rabbanan they violate. Please do not list chumras.”
How about D’oraysas? Is carrying on Shabbos in the UWS good enough?
Nechomah -“Body temperature is measured differently depending on a child’s age. If measured rectally, a child is said to be running a fever when the body temperature is over 100.4. Orally, that measurement is 98.6.”
Your last line should say –
“Orally, that measurement is 99 degrees Fahrenheit.”
It would have been a nice post a few years ago, but as you see from my long post -they changed a lot of it. And in Medicine we usually go after the latest recommendations.
HaLeiVi -“So this thread is for those who think they aren’t Joseph.”
And yet you posted here 3 times once under HaLeivi and twice under ZK. Don’t you get it – Mr. SN “cantgetit” you don’t belong here. As many personalities that you have – you still are Joseph.
Hey can we write a book/movie about you? What’s that book called Cybil/Sybil?
uneeq -“Health I think HaJoseph is a mod because its a brand new SN, unlike what you are suggesting.”
Nope, I doubt it.
“One post by a person who has so much info about Joseph is most likely a mod. Besides why would Joseph wanna ruin some of the names that are still used?”
Because he constantly is using new SN’s -read my above post.
This is part of his game he gives you some SN’s – so you’ll think others (SN’s) aren’t him.
From the AAP Website -HealthyChildren.org:
Fever:
Fever and Your Baby:
By itself, fever is not an illness. Rather, it is a sign or symptom of sickness. In fact, usually it is a positive sign that the body is fighting infection. Fever stimulates certain defenses, such as the white blood cells, which attack and destroy invading bacteria.
The fever may actually be important in helping your child fight his infection. However, fever can make your child uncomfortable. It increases his need for fluids and makes his heart rate and breathing rate faster. Fever most commonly accompanies respiratory illnesses such as croup or pneumonia, ear infections, influenza (flu), severe colds, and sore throats. It also may occur with infections of the bowel, blood, or urinary tract, inflammation of brain and spinal cord (meningitis), and with a wide variety of viral illnesses.
How to Take a Child’s Temperature:
Taking Your Child’s Temperature:
While you often can tell if your child is warmer than usual by feeling his forehead, only a thermometer can tell how high the temperature is. Even if your child feels warmer than usual, you do not necessarily need to check this temperature unless he has other signs of illness.
Types of Digital Thermometers:
(I didn’t copy & paste the chart -you can look it up – Health.)
Digital multiuse thermometer:
Reads body temperature when the sensor located on the tip of the thermometer touches that part of the body.
Can be used rectally, orally, or axillary.
Rectal (in the bottom)
Oral (in the mouth)
Label thermometer “oral” or “rectal”. Don’t use the same thermometer in both places.
How to Use a Digital Multiuse Thermometer:
Rectal temperature:
If your child is younger than 3 years, taking a rectal temperature gives the best reading. The following is how to take a rectal temperature:
Clean the end of the thermometer with rubbing alcohol or soap and water. Rinse it with cool water. Do not rinse it with hot water.
Put a small amount of lubricant, such as petroleum jelly, on the end.
Place your child belly down across your lap or on a firm surface. Hold him by placing your palm against his lower back, just above his bottom. Or place your child face up and bend his legs to his chest. Rest your free hand against the back of the thighs.
Be sure to label the rectal thermometer so it’s not accidentally used in the mouth.
Oral temperature:
Once your child is 4 or 5 years of age, you can take his temperature by mouth. The following is how to take an oral temperature:
Clean the thermometer with lukewarm soapy water or rubbing alcohol. Rinse with cool water.
For a correct reading, wait at least 15 minutes after your child has had a hot or cold drink before putting the thermometer in his mouth.
When to call the doctor:
if your child has a fever and
Looks very ill, is unusually drowsy, or is very fussy
Has been in a very hot place, such as an overheated car
Has other symptoms, such as a stiff neck, severe headache, severe sore throat, severe ear pain, an unexplained rash, or repeated vomiting or diarrhea
Has immune system problems, such as sickle cell disease or cancer, or is taking steroids
Has had a seizure
Your child seems to be getting worse.
The fever persists for more than 24 hours in a child younger than 2 years.
The fever persists for more than 3 days (72 hours) in a child 2 years of age or older.
Signs and Symptoms of Fever:
What is a Fever:
Signs and Symptoms of a Fever:
If your child has a fever, she may feel warm, appear flushed, or sweat more than usual. She may also be more thirsty than usual.
Some children feel fine when they have a fever. However, most will have symptoms of the illness that is causing the fever. Your child may have an earache, a sore throat, a rash, or a stomach ache. These signs can provide important clues as to the cause of the fever.
Medications Used to Treat Fever:
If your child is older than 6 months and has a fever, she probably does not need to be treated for the fever unless she is uncomfortable. Watch her behavior. If she is drinking, eating, sleeping normally, and is able to play, you should wait to see if the fever improves by itself and do not need to treat the fever.
What you can do:
Keep her room comfortably cool.
Make sure that she is dressed in light clothing.
Encourage her to drink fluids such as water, diluted juices, or a store-bought electrolyte solution.
Be sure that she does not overexert herself.
Check with your doctor before giving medicine
Ibuprofen should only be used for children older than 6 months. It should not be given to children who are vomiting constantly or are dehydrated.
If your child is vomiting and cannot take anything by mouth, a rectal suppository may be needed. Acetaminophen comes in suppository form and can help reduce discomfort in a vomiting child.
Treating a Fever Without Medicine:
Fevers generally do not need to be treated with medication unless your child is uncomfortable or has a history of febrile convulsions. The fever may be important in helping your child fight the infection.
Even higher temperatures are not in themselves dangerous or significant unless your child has a history of seizures or a chronic disease. Even if your child has a history of a fever-related convulsion and you treat the fever with medication, they may still have this kind of seizure. It is more important to watch how your child is behaving.
Treatment Suggestions for Fever:
Encourage him to drink extra fluid or other liquids (water, diluted fruit juices, commercially prepared oral electrolyte solutions, gelatin [Jell-O], Popsicles, etc.).
If the room is warm or stuffy, place a fan nearby to keep cool air moving.
Your child does not have to stay in his room or in bed when he has a fever. He can be up and about the house, but should not run around and overexert himself.
If the fever is a symptom of a highly contagious disease (e.g., chickenpox or the flu), keep your child away from other children, elderly people, or people who may not be able to fight infection well, such as those with cancer.
Sponging:
In most cases, using oral acetaminophen or ibuprofen is the most convenient way to make your feverish child more comfortable. However, sometimes you may want to combine this with tepid sponging, or just use sponging alone.
Sponging is preferred over acetaminophen or ibuprofen if:
Your child is known to be allergic to, or is unable to tolerate, antipyretic (anti-fever) drugs (a rare case).
It is advisable to combine sponging with acetaminophen or ibuprofen if:
Fever is making your child extremely uncomfortable.
He is vomiting and may not be able to keep the medication in his stomach.
(Temp. over 104 F or 40 C.)
(History of febrile convulsions or s/o in immediate family has had them.)
(The last two recommendations comes from a previous edition of the AAP book. -Health)
Usually sponging will bring down the fever by one to two degrees in thirty to forty-five minutes. However, if your child is resisting actively, stop and let him just sit and play in the water. If being in the tub makes him more upset and uncomfortable, it is best to take him out even if his fever is unchanged. Remember, a fever less than 105 degrees Fahrenheit (40.5 degrees Celsius) is in itself not harmful.
(They corrected/changed this from previous; before this latest edition they wrote -“Remember, a fever in the moderate range -less than 102 degrees Fahrenheit (38.9 degrees Celsius) is in itself not harmful. -Health)
(I got most of the articles, but not all – Health.)
Sorry Mods for the length, but every parent has to know this -Health.
torah613613torah -“Oomis is exactly right. If a child is seizing or very sick, it doesn’t matter what the fever is, they need immediate attention. Alternatively, if the child seems fine but has 102 or 103, he’s probably fine.”
Yea she’s right, but you just contradicted yourself and I quote:
“Health, you’re wrong. A 103 fever is extremely dangerous unless it immediately starts to go down.”
How could the kid be fine and it’s extremely dangerous at the same time?
You probably read in some book this about kids or you have minimal medical education like an EMT or something. Now I’m going to have to write a post explaining what I meant. I should have figured that in the CR I just can’t write a simple thing without s/o jumping on me. But don’t worry I’ll just quote the AAP so e/o will understand. I’m going to write for a layman so all those Dr. Welby’s out there will have to realize that and ask questions based on that. We have (Medical Prof) different protocols based on what the fever is – on how to work it up.
SaysMe -“mods, has zeeskite’s name been cleared up, as we hope?”
DENIAL isn’t just the name of a river in Egypt.
anon1m0us -“Health- ANYONE can argue on R’ Moshe zt’l! Just because he was a gadol does not mean everyone follows his psak.”
Naarish, unless you’re being more Machmir, (like Cholov Yisroel), but to be Meikel then you have to be on his caliber to say for example Broadway is Not a Reshus Harabim.
“A great example is carrying in Boro Park, a place R’ Moshe assured, but yet you have THOUSANDS of frum Jews (maybe chassidim are the new Mo) carrying every shabbos.”
I just answered this above.
“You have hundreds of Sefardim carrying on Ocean Parkway!!”
Now this could be a problem because it could be R’ Moshe zt’l said Ocean Parkway is a Reshus Harabim.
shmendrick -“In the supermarket I am mechabed chochomim by letting them check out ahead of me. When driving and arriving at an intersection, I always let the Torah Yidden go ahead of me.”
So I’ll give you a picture of me and my car so you can do that to me also. I’m obviously a much bigger Talmid Chochom than you and I proved it in the topic of “saying Good Shabbos on Fri.”
Also, you should support me financially because of my learning which is much better than yours!
chalilavchas -“if Levin had a more “Malcolm Hoenlein” (his manner came to my mind) way of speaking and looking, Levin’s and the Torah’s ideas would be taken MUCH more seriously (isnt that what we want?). That style presents well to the masses and our Oilem has many such people who should be coaxed to come forward and speak publicly to represent our views. Some do us a disservice rather than a service.”
Here is where we disagree. Let me explain. If Rabbi Levin came to you, me or s/o else asking how he should speak to the masses then you can tell him it’s better this other way, but he hasn’t asked. He decided his way is best. If there was s/o else who got up to the masses explaining the problem with the Toeiva agenda and did it in a nicer way -I’d say this is preferable. But noone has. So I’ll repeat what I said before -he does more good than harm.
He might not be doing it the right way, but IMHO his way is better than No way! A Machoh has to be made. These Toeiva marriage laws are bringing destruction to the world and this has to be made known, no matter what!
HaLeiVi
HaLeiVi is Supposedly Joseph!
“Hey, so Health isn’t Joseph after all, or did you perhaps make some backroom deal?”
Joe/HaLeiVi, can I ask you a question -where did anyone on this topic ever accuse me of being you? Stop fantazing and realize you are who you are. People might respect you if you didn’t email them and you posted under One SN. I’m not a shrink, but a lot of what you do is obviously from a very low esteem. Try to work on it or go to s/o to help you.
Wisey -“I think zeeskite and One of Many are also joseph because they like defending him.”
ZK – definitely – proven by Aries. And I thought so months ago.
I’m pretty sure about HaLeiVi also because he attacked me for attacking Joseph/ZK on a different thread for no reason.
It looks like “cantgetit” is another one from his post above.
I don’t think “moi aussi” is him because -I think “moi aussi” is a she and I think she’s angry at YWN -so she’s projecting her anger with her defense of ZK. She might be right about AYC, but she is sadly mistaken about ZK.
uneeq -“HaJoseph, which mod are you?”
This is Joseph at his games again. These are probably the names he used to use.
My only question is about HaKatan. I always liked his posts, but I guess if Joseph is admitting to it -then it must be a SN of his.
Please Joseph use Hakatan’s personality as your main personality -it’s your nicest one out of your many personalities.
Joseph – ZeesKite is so phony. A girl/woman who knows many Chazals. But I give you credit you fooled many a poster here, but Not me!
CAD -“simply because I pointed out to you that it doesn’t actually SAY that talmud torah k’neged kulam. And furthermore, there would never be anyone who would believe that to the point that they would actually put that into practice. Want a cheeseburger? Go ahead!! I did morning seder today and after all, talmud torah k’neged kulam right? Do you really believe that statement? Would you put it into practice? No. You wouldn’t. Because the thrust of the statement is to enforce the importance of talmud torah, and that learning serves as the base of all observance. No rav in the world (past or future) would ever take that statement literally. If they did it would spell the end of torah observance as we know it.”
It does say Talmud Torah Keneged Kulam. The reason I referred you to the S’A was for you to learn up what this means, not for you to interpret it or others like OOmis.
What the S’A says is that this doesn’t excuse s/o from Not doing Aveiros, but when it comes to Mitzvos Aseh -if there are others to do it then you should learn Torah instead. For example, there are people who spend all day or some of the day visiting the sick, but you don’t see Kollel guys going everyday to visit the sick. Same with Tzedaka, many people spend their day collecting Tzedaka, but you don’t see Kollel guys spending all their time collecting. So why not? The S’A says it’s better to spend your time learning then all these Mitzvos, as long as there is/are s/o else to do them and the Mitzva isn’t Not done.
DaMoshe -“HaKatan, you’ve claimed many times that MO is matir issurim. You’ve been asked what issurim they are matir, but have never answered with anything other than Zionism. Please realize that many big Rabbonim disagree with that, as they hold Zionism to be perfectly fine. Can you provide an issur that MO allows?”
Many eat gelatin that R’ Ralbag Mattered. R’ Moshe zt’l held it was Ossur. In the UWS they carry on Shabbos; R’ Moshe zt’l held Broadway was a Reshus Harabim. Therefore you can’t make an Eruv in the UWS. I could go on, but this should suffice. Noone in the MO community is on the caliber to argue with R’ Moshe zt’l!
oot for life -“And a Dr in the NYC area told me that it was normal for him to be seeing temps of 103+ this week. So keep an eye on your kids if they start to act out of sorts. These are very high fevers that need to be addressed.”
I don’t know if you meant to imply that 103 is a high fever or not, but Fyi 103 is Not a high fever in kids.
But don’t believe me because some people here claim I’m not a medical professional only they are because they took an EMT course which makes them as smart as a doctor, PA or NP.
“I heard in DC they broke a record two weeks in a row for kids admitted to the ER.”
Oh, btw, you aren’t “admitted to the ER”; the ER/ED is the place where they decide whether to admit you to the hospital. You might have known this, but I just wanted to clarify it.
phdmom -I wouldn’t worry about your Parnossa too much. As much as there is naysayers in the community, as the community is growing, there are a lot of Frum people who are using Mental Health professionals.
I’m still waiting for the Frum community to install school psychologists in Yeshivas/BY’s. We are way behind the Goyim when it comes to this. Having shrinks in schools will do away with a lot of them seeking Mental help when it’s too late – after their lives are messed up. “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!”
WIY – Obviously he made some sort of deal with YWN to keep posting here. I wonder why they agreed and do they think we all are stupid?
chalilavchas -“90% if not more, of the Grand Rabbis in Brooklyn are aligned with the Democratic voting machine (who very proudly support gay rights), and are telling their flock that thats what is best for them. What do you propose to change that?”
Since I have a Chiyuv to be Dan L’caf Zecus, esp. leaders like Rebbes, I have to say they must be ignorant when it comes to American politics. They probably mistakenly think that the Goyim would pass these laws anyway. They wouldn’t – so publicity esp. in forums like this will perhaps filter down to them and they will see their mistake. I’m sure they don’t realize that what they’re doing is wrong acc. to the Torah. If I personally had Shaychus with these people I’d try to influence them.
Your attitude of – Who cares – we can’t change anything -is very wrong. Anything can be changed but it takes effort.
I know in Lakewood a lot of Jews were going to vote for Corzine, but once they got a Psak from either R’ Kaniefsky or R’ Shteinman
most didn’t end up voting for him Lmeisseh because he was pro- Toeiva.
This pro-liberal politicians is based on ignorance, nothing more.
And ignorance can always be changed.
This is why I tend to think people like R’ Levin are doing more good than harm. Of course most Jews don’t like that approach of “in your face”, but the fact is – he is combatting this ignorance that makes Toeiva PC in our generation.
MediumThinker -“There is no halachik basis whatsoever to make a mezonos on a mezonos roll.”
Right; and all those Poskim who say these rolls are Mezonos are wrong because you say so and you know Halacha better than them.
It’s one thing to say you hold like those who hold it’s Hamotzay and it’s another to say that you’re way is right and e/o else is wrong. Where does this attitude from – Gaivah?
And btw, I’ve experienced this attitude many times before.
nanny -“What we learned in Halacha class is that if it looks like bread and tastes like bread– guess what, it’s bread. If it’s eaten with a meal-like filling (tuna, cream cheese, egg, etc.) no one can get away with calling it a snack. Technically, if you take 2 slices of marble cake and eat them with tuna in between, you have to make a hamotzi. We were taught that really people should wash on pizza, because its generally eaten as a meal, whether you have 1 slice or 2, and it has a “meal-like filling” (cheese and sauce)but that’s a machlokes. Even it a person has a certain amount of, say, cake (don’t know the amount- but a lot) they even have to wash on that (even if its just for a “snack”).”
Yes, this is what’s PC nowadays, but the only thing they forgot to tell you is a lot of Poskim don’t hold this way in almost everything you mentioned.
So if you have a Rabbi, which e/o should, you should ask him what he holds and not rely on the Rabbi/teacher of your Halacha class.
I have an example where this Chumra craze has been a classic case of Al Tehe Tzaddik Harbeh and Kol Homosif Goreah:
The round Maacabee Pizzas when I was younger had one Hechsher and might not have even been Cholov Yisroel, Lo Aleynu.
Nowadays they have at least two Hechsherim and are CY.
I also noticed that one of the Hechsherim puts on the box -“Yozer L’chod -Birchos Hamotzay”. When years ago it didn’t tell you the Brocha at all. People who didn’t know could always ask their Rabbi. I think that they are telling people this because of all the hullabalou about Mezonos. While they are correct about the Halacha – when something is baked first alone and it’s basically flour and water then you make a Hamotzay.
So what am I saying that it’s not baked first -this can’t be -they know their product better than me? Yes, I know they know their product, but it’s still Mezonos. Why? Because for something to be baked first and then baked again afterwards with stuff on top – in order to prevent in from becoming Mezonos it has to be baked well enough that it’s edible. Even though Maacabee Pizza, not the bagels which are edible, are baked first alone -they are no way in an edible state. How do you know this? Because when I was a younger Bochur and I needed supper without having an oven -I knew about this thing that it was baked first, even though it didn’t say so on the package -so I decided to let the Pizza defrost and I’d have supper. Cheese even though not melted would still be edible -same with the sauce. But lo & behold, I don’t remember ever being so sick from food as I was that night.
So I know that that dough is Not edible. Whichever one of the Hechsherim on that Pizza decided it was Hamotzay because it was baked separately first should try eating it without the second baking at home. I guarantee you he will be singing a different tune when he starts feeling better after the stomach illness.
brisket -“Mezonos rolls are made with fruit juice and are p’as habah b’kisnin much like pizza dough is.”
Most pizza dough is not made from apple juice and it still is Mezonos. Look up the Halachos.
“The p’sak I’ve heard from multiple poskim is that if you eat it as a snack you can say mezonos, but if you’re eating it as a meal you need to wash for it.”
Yes, this is the common Psak, but in Willi it seems they don’t hold this way. I btw, washed in Willi, but noone else did.
DY -“Unless I’m misunderstanding, C-A-D doesn’t consider Torah sheba’al peh part of Torah. If Mishnayos wasn’t good enough, why would S”A be better?”
I was always under the impression that he was Orthodox.
mik5 -“Is it true that the bracha on “mezonos rolls” is really hamotzi?
So can you make Kiddush on them?”
Ya’ know 20 years ago all the Farfrumta guys I know started with there is no such thing as “Mezonos rolls”. I, of course, being the naive guy that I am – of course believed them. In actuality there is a big Machlokes Haposkim regarding this. The reason that people call them “Mezonos rolls” is because the Rav Hamachshir on the bakery holds they are Mezonos.
So there are two reasons you can use these rolls for a Seudah:
1. You hold that they are really Hamotzay like some Poskim.
2. You hold like others that they are Mezonos, but the S’A Paskens you can make a Hamotzay on Mezonos if you are Koveah Seudah.
And of all places, in Willi, they only sell “Mezonos rolls” in restaurants, not really only but mostly. And they put meat on them like burgers & dogs. So their Rav Hamachshir obviously holds they are still Mezonos and eating them with meat doesn’t automatically make them Hamotzay, not like other Poskim. And this isn’t a mistake from the restaurant owner, because they all say the same thing -so they got this from their Rabbonim. I heard this for many years there in different restaurants.