Forum Replies Created
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yichusdik -“…and at 6:30 pm Israel time today, there was a similar attack on a chareidi soldier walking alone on Shmuel Hanavi. buuuut…it’s all about me and my apparent prejudices. right.”
You’re right it is your Prejudice! Ya’know there was a crime in the inner city today and yesterday and none of the leaders spoke up about it. As matter of fact there is crime there all the time and noone says Boo. But yet they haven’t stopped talking about Zim and his “Murder”. How come noone screams where are leaders of that community to condenm all this crime? You only can find fault with the Charedim in this world, e/o else is perfect.
jbaldy22 -“IF there was a lot of crime in Tel Aviv and the mayor of tel aviv never said anything about fighting crime in his city you would think there is a problem right?”
There is a lot of crime in Tel Aviv and he hardly says a word about it. So you have no point -you just lied to make a point that isn’t reality. Keep on with your hatred towards Charedim and keep the Bais Hamikdash aflame!
GAW -“I have to agree. Had the perp’s wife gone out with her knees showing (instead of him attacking a Charaidi soldier), he certainly would have been punished/shunned by the community.”
This post is where you have gone over to the Charedi bashers side.
It’s Not the job of the leaders to police every criminal in their community.
Zdad -“Thats why poeople might demand the Rabbis condem such actions but would not demand the same from the mayor of Tel Aviv for a mugging”
You would have a point if the complaints against the leaders were coming from inside of the community, but the only complaints I hear are from outsiders -so there is no difference in the leaders of both communities standing up. These posters are just looking to find any fault with the Charedim and point fingers at all the Charedim or their leaders. It’s very sad how their hatred is so blatant esp. during the 9 days!
musser zoger -“Health, Fired him? Why isn’t he behind bars? Aren’t educators and health professionals bound by law to report this to the police?”
I agree. I obviously wasn’t part of that Yeshiva’s decision.
jewishfeminist02 -“Health, please post the name of this person l’toeles.”
And I thought you were worldly. IF YWN would even print it -it would open up me and them to a lawsuit. Ever hear of slander and/or libel?
jbaldy22 -“If you think this is an isolated incident and that none of the incidents an e”y warrant any response than I have nothing more to say.”
What does isolated have to do with it? Does the Mayor of Tel Aviv get up and condemn Every single crime that occurs there? I don’t think so. Stop with the double standard.
WIY -“How can it be that after one yeshiva fired him another hired him and then another…? Such a person should not be allowed near children after the first offense!”
I know the name of a guy in Lakewood who was a Rebbi in NY and was molesting kids and they fired him, but didn’t tell anyone why.
He then got a job as a Menahel out of town. Then he got a job near Lakewood, also as a Menahel, and now lives in Lakewood.
adamemes1 -“Any other theory is unsupported and purely speculation.”
I applaud your theory, which is plausable and makes sense. I never even thought of this because the whole country is bombarded with this Gov. who are only doing this to please a segment of society. If your theory would have been brought to the public -they would wonder why there is a criminal case here. There would have never been a case if the Gov. wouldn’t consider certain segments of society above the rest of us. Liberalism is a failure, just like Communism was!
This is quite possible. Another possibility is him being found guilty on 3rd degree Murder based on “Child Abuse”. The “Judge” has Not yet ruled on this option. I hope the Jury finds him Not guilty on all charges, in spite of the Govs.’ persecution of this guy Zim.
If found guilty now or later (if there is a Federal case), then this will be America’s (US) “Dreyfuss Affair”!
jbaldy22 -“What I actually said was that if someone in their community did something like this I don’t understand why its not their responsibility to say that such sinah is wrong and condemn it. Ex post facto not a priori.”
Blaming after the fact by demanding condemnation is also blaming. It isn’t their responsibility to condemn every crime that occurs in their community, just because you and others say so!
“And you know if the Amish started stoning american soldiers you better believe they would be blaming the amish leaders.”
This is simply Not true. They wouldn’t blame them any more than they blame all Xiatinity for the actions of the Westboro Church that are doing disgusting things in the name of their religion.
“Besides for which unlike the Amish we have a concept of arvus in our religion.”
So now you are Rabbi and know more than the Rabbis in Yerushalyim, that the Torah, because of Arvus, requires condemnation for the acts of these criminals?!?!
yichusdik -“I then pointed out your straw man, then you wrote:
“My point wasn’t that you were attacking e/o who is Charedi.”
Make up your mind.”
You don’t want to even listen to my point because you’re too busy putting Charedim and their Rabbonim down!
Noone would ever blame Amish elders/leaders for crime in their community -so how come you have No problem blaming Charedi leaders for anything wrong in their community?
This is why I posted -“Your hypocrisy and hatred to Charedim is astounding!” This has to be the reason why you treat Charedim differently than anyone else in this world, eg. the Amish!
jbaldy22 -“If an analogous situation would happen here in America you would have tons of rabbonim screaming about sinas chinam.”
I’m not interested in putting down American Rabbis, but they seem to only do things that are PC. How come you don’t hear them talking about what’s going on right now with YU?
“As has been stated elsewhere in the CR there is no issue making voices heard in regards to other communal issues so why is this issue any different?”
And as I said before they don’t have to say criminal acts are wrong -it’s not their responsibility. You wouldn’t blame Amish elders for crime in their community -you and others are just looking to blame Charedim & their Rabbonim.
yichusdik -“Health, I’ve got to call you on your utter irresponsibility. Frankly straw men are the most pathetic way to win an argument…against yourself.”
Stop wimpering. You failed to even grasp my point. My point wasn’t that you were attacking e/o who is Charedi. My point was why are you blaming the leaders? Noone would ever blame the Amish Elders/leaders for crimes in their community -so why are you blaming the leaders of the Charedim for crimes in their community?
jbaldy22 -“I hate to say it but I agree with yichusdik (on a majority of his points) and there are some extremely delusional posters here.”
You agree with him, but it seems you are the delusional one.
“If you can’t admit that there is a serious problem with what happened in mea shearim and that every time something like this happens its a massive chillul hashem then hashem yiracheim.”
Noone denied that what happened in Mea Sharim was wrong. They disagreed with the OP who put the blame on the leaders.
ROB -“health: I have no idea what your mention of the well known ohr someach does. I fulle endorse what he wrote, that one who thinks that the center of the world is not jerushalaim (alluding to German Reform Judiasm)will suffer greatly (in reference to the tochacho).”
Simple, I said if you do live in Berlin, perhaps you consider it Yerushalyim and then I guess the words of the OS would apply to you.
“As far as your other assertion, that Eretz yisroel (and jerushalaim) is -chas vecholilo- “golus”, beware of what you write about eretz yisroel! Your quote from eicha makes no sense-as per your interpretation- which is what,BTW?”
Also simple. The Novi says everywhere is Golus and wants it to end, which includes EY & Yerushalyim, not like your posts.
yichusdik -“When someone tells me that its the aimless, the young, those who won’t listen to guidance who perpetrate this, I first ask, are you sure? How are you sure?
Then I wonder even more. Its clear that in a community where compliance is not mandated, where codes of conduct, dress, conversation, courting, davening, doing business are less defined, There will certainly be those, perhaps many, who do not follow “guidance”, but the nature of the guidance and the communities are less strict and more fluid.
The only implication that is broader, beyond this community in my view is that when posters here are saying that there’s nothing the Rabbis can do, or that if the Rabbis spoke up their life would be in danger, the idea of manhigus through daas Torah is endangered not from the outside, but from within. Very troubling.”
I’m not going to quote your whole post, but your bigotry towards Charedim knows No bounds. Let me ask you this -in the Amish community where there is a strict dress code, which e/o must follow and now s/o commits a crime, do you also blame the Amish elders? Noone in the world would take your drivel seriously for a second if you did, but when it comes to Charedim all of a sudden e/o besides Charedim jump on the bandwagon of hate and bigotry.
Shraga18 -“If he’s found guilty, it will be a miscarriage of justice. But I’m hopeful the jury members are rational, honest people.”
Sorry to disagree -it’s already a miscarriage of Justice.
If this would have occured to a person of Zim’s race -there would have been no trial. All cases like this are decided by the local DA – why did they appoint a State Attorney for this case?
We have heard lie after lie fed to the media by the Gov.
Example – showing photos without injury of Zim to the media.
The Gov. has taken PC for certain segments of the pop. to the level where it steps on others’ civil rights!
yichusdik -“Health – see my post above regarding who is to “blame”. Not the whole chareidi velt.”
I realize who you were blaming. Now go back and read my post again.
If you want to blame Hirsch and the NK for this because they concurred -then go ahead. This has nothing to do with the Charedi Rabbonim, no matter what you post!
jewishfeminist02 -“I’ll jump in here. I believe the OP’s point was that Charedim are utterly devoted to their rabbonim and will follow any directive without question,”
This is ridiculous. Your assumption that the leaders have more control over their populace than Govs. is based on your bias, not on any reality.
“Furthermore, the threat of cherem or not getting a good shidduch is far more effective in regulating the behavior of Charedim than any police power.”
This is only true if you’re from that group. More stereotyping.
When one Chassidus fights with another, do you think Cherem or Not marrying into the other group deters the fight?
You must be from outside the Frum Yeshivish world because you have No clue how things work in it.
rationalfrummie -“I don’t get how you can downplay it.”
I was downplaying it compared to the riots in the sixties.
ROB -“My objection to your post was when you named Eretz Yisroel “golus”.Chas vecholilo!!”
Yes, it is Golus. The Medina Is Not Esschalta of the Geula like the Zionists claim.
I guess next week you’ll be skipping part of Eicha that says in 4:22 “Lo Yosef Lehaglosaich”, if you’re in Israel, because you don’t consider EY “Golus”. It seems that most of the Klal, that still read Eicha, consider that the words of the Novi still apply everywhere!
yichusdik -“There’s nothing the Rabbis can do”
That’s the saddest comment I ever read on YWN. If there’s nothing the Rabbis can do, in a community so directed, so restricted, so regimented, then the system is broken.
If these kids don’t listen to any Rabbis – which I do not believe – then there’s a much bigger problem than a chareidi guy walking through Mea Shearim in Madim that needs to be addressed.”
Your hypocrisy and hatred to Charedim is astounding!
Do you hate the Israeli Gov. or the American Gov. for every crime committed in their country? Yet, you blame the Charedi leaders for every action of a “Charedi”. The leaders of the Charedim don’t even have any police powers like Govs. do.
Govs. are much more responsible for crimes committed because their liberal laws don’t deter much crime.
Gamanit -“Rabbi of Berlin says one must live in Eretz Yisroel… hmmmm… Since when is Berlin in Eretz Yisroel?”
Maybe he thinks like the following post?!?
“Avi K – To all those who love being in Galut: the Ohr Sameach said that if someone thinks that Berlin is his Yerushalayim Hashem will show him otherwise.”
anothermother -“To your point about the rioting: that’s what always happens in these situations. When the cops were acquitted in the Rodney King trial, LA burned (I’m too young to remember, but my aunt, a Korean giyores who grew up in that part of LA,saw her parents’ store wrecked during the riots).”
I’m chuckling about your term “LA burned”. What happened during those riots -you couldn’t really call “burned”. I guess you never heard about the riots in the 60’s after the killing of MLK -during that time most inner cities “Burned”, including LA. A lot of Jewish businesses were destroyed. But I just read that in Phila., it wasn’t like other inner cities because the Mayor gave orders to his police to shoot to kill. This stopped them from having any serious riots.
I’m not so sure about this. It depends on how liberal & PC the jury is.
And they probably will bring him up on Federal Civil Rights charges.
ROB -“SO- you do not accept what the gemoro says? I thought you followed halocho…”
So now you’re a Poisek and are telling me where I have to live?
First of all, there are many Heterim given to live in Chutz Laaretz and I thought you always have to go with Kulos acc. to your previous posts? And besides which, the Satmer Rebbe zt’l held it’s better to live in Chutz LaAretz than in Treif Medinas Israel.
ROB -“Health- Eretz Yisroel is never golus! As you know, the gemoro is very dismissive on anyone who lives in chutz lo-oretz…”
Yes, it is Golus, in spite of the Chazals saying the things they did about living in Chutz Laaretz. The Medina IS NOT Esschalta of the Geula!
“and my remark was not meant to taken literally”
But mine was! Zionists reconsider making your Medina in Uganda!
ROB -“health- I have a very easy solution to you and the ones who espouse your views: move to another country who does not require you to ‘share’ in any burden. I am sure that the israeli government will be very sympathetic to you moving to, say, albania.”
This post is so ironic. I’ve been espousing this argument for years and none of the Zionists here it took it seriously, except it was the other way around.
That’s right – the Zionists and even the so-called “Religious” Zionists should reconsider making their homeland in Uganda and the rest of us who realize that even Israel is Golus will have the land of Palestine ruled by the Goyim like Turkey. This IMHO will hasten the coming of Moshiach!
The closing will be more jokes or cursing. This isn’t a trial, but a 3 ring circus.
And even if Zim is aquitted, which of course he should be, he isn’t out of the woods yet. I remember s/o from very high up saying the deceased would be just like his son, if he had one.
That person will appoint his AG to prosecute Zim on Civil Rights charges.
After year after year of tragedies during the three weeks, perhaps it’s Not the time for Jews to be on vacation? I’m not saying Jewish kids don’t need vacation – maybe three weeks during the winter and three during the summer after Tisha B’Av? I think being in Yeshiva would be good enough -I’m not advocating e/o sit on sackcloth with ashes on their head for 3 weeks.