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Syag Lchochma -“That has GOT to be the funniest thing you have EVER said.”
Funny -each time I post this to you -you say the same thing. Come up with a new line.
benignuman -“Health, This has all probably been discussed before”
Yes it has; -so I’m wondering why you are repeating it? Did you change your SN from that topic and want to “prove” you’re right -or you don’t want to look up what I posted there?
“but the S”A does not require a woman to get married. It only requires a man to get married.”
Not True! And the Mareh Mokom is in my previous topic!
“Second, Even HaEzer 2:9 expressly states that a young man should not marry an old woman and an old man should not marry a young woman.”
Like I posted in that topic, your definition is Not that of the Torahs’. A 50 -60 yo man is Not considered a Zakein, nor is an 18 yo or up woman considered a Yalda.
But keep trying to change the Halacha because you don’t like my posts. In my definition s/o who changes the meaning of Halacha for their own or anyone else’s PC is called being Megaleh Ponim B’Torah Shelo K’halacha!
Syag Lchochma -“other people would have said,”sorry””
Stop constantly looking to find fault in everything I do.
Saying a statement which I believe is a rule and s/o takes offense personally to it -doesn’t mean I did something wrong.
And this is why I posted that it was a rule -a rule doesn’t apply to every single last one.
PBO -“Also, your point is not relevant, since it does not negate the result that I am proving. If indeed the only way to match up all the girls with on a 1:1 ratio with guys is to match up 12 year old girls with 60 year old guys, then that shows a serious numbers mismatch.”
I wasn’t disagreeing with that -I was disagreeing with this:
“PBO -1. Overwhelming anecdotal evidence. Everyone who is involved in shidduchim knows that there are way more girls than boys. This is proven by the simple observation that boys are able to go on dates any time they please, while most girls are practically scrounging for dates. It is simply undeniable.”
You said way too many girls in general. If you would have said there are way too many girls than boys The Same Age, I wouldn’t have had a problem with this.
Mean what you say and say what you mean!
DY -“Thanks for letting me know I’m out of the Parsha. I didn’t realize that.
Yes, it was an ignorant thing for Health to say.”
It’s just the rule -there are exceptions to every rule!
Pinchas -“Health, in tenth grade, my friend smoked one cigarette at our Rebbi’s house on Purim. That lead to many more cigarettes and at age 26 he was dead (by lung cancer). So, I personally see something very wrong with it.”
My point wasn’t that Purim can’t be a starting point for a smoker – obviously it can be. Same with taking a Chosson cig. or taking because the crowd/clic are all smoking. I was talking about s/o who is pretty sure if they take that Purim or Chosson cig. they won’t be taking another one for a very long time.
But your post brought up an interesting side point:
“yitayningwut -I have been told by a real doctor that a smoker will generally not do significant long term damage if he quits before the age of thirty.”
I think the stress in this line is “generally”, but our Torah Assurs the possibility since it’s Not a far away possibility and your friend Lo Aleinu is an example. Being a smoker on a regular basis is Ossur at any age.
chalilavchas -“I have no idea who youre referring to, but why cant they be dealt with at the same time? Dealing with one wouldnt weaken dealing with the other.”
Because they aren’t dealing with the others. They are making him into the scapegoat. There are different problems in the Klal, besides molestation, that aren’t being dealt with either. I can’t post them here. The ones who are leaders in these types of decisions, not just the followers, should be taken to task, which is Not happenning. I believe this Rov is from the followers.
As opposed to your info, just in this recent case, there were many Rabbonim and Askonim involved and I’m pretty sure this Rov that you’re talking about was just following the crowd.
Avi K -“3. Several committees of inquiry, including two established by Likud governments, showed that there was no such policy. All but a few of the children were accounted for as having died.”
How come you have No Busha to repeat over the same lies to promote Zionist propaganda? I posted this historical article in the topic of Yemenite children:
It seems that even the Israeli Govs’. last commission didn’t have the guts to outright deny the truth, like you just did. I guess you believe in Zionism more than they do. At what point is believing in something and lying to cover up all the wrongs committed by that thing considered AZ?
DY -“Then who would marry the women in your age group?”
Those girls that are still single in middle age obviously don’t want to get married. For the last 20 -30 years they haven’t met their “Bashert” – so obviously they don’t want to marry their “Bashert” because he isn’t good enough in their minds. This takes them out of the Parsha – so why don’t the younger girls go out with these guys?
benignuman – I already dealt with these issues in my topic. I hate repeating the same things over and over.
“Where in the Torah does it say that women are required to get married?”
S’A. Ever hear of him?
“It is common sense that a person should marry someone appropriate for them. For many girls a 20 year age gap is almost certainly inappropriate. It is not being “picky” to want to marry someone approximately your age.”
Well they tried getting married to s/o their own age, but noone wants to go out with them. And what the world calls
“inappropriate”, in no way throws out S’A!
PBO -“1. Overwhelming anecdotal evidence. Everyone who is involved in shidduchim knows that there are way more girls than boys. This is proven by the simple observation that boys are able to go on dates any time they please, while most girls are practically scrounging for dates. It is simply undeniable.”
This I disagree with. The facts are they can find dates with older guys. I and many guys I know would go out with these girls. The only reason they can’t find dates is because they are picky.
Where in the Torah does it say an excuse not to get married because the guy is 20 -30 years older? I discussed this in detail in my topic of “Who wants to be a Tzdaiekes like Rus?”.
yitayningwut – Even though I agree with you on this particular part -this is going way off topic.
Smoking in general amongst Frum Jews is Not considered an Aveira and in the Yeshivos too. In a lot of Yeshivos it’s Not even considered taboo, let alone an Issur! Imagine what would happen in some of these main stream Yeshivos if s/o brought in a computer with the Net. Well if you can’t imagine -I’ll tell you -they would be chucked so fast -they wouldn’t know what happened. In these same places you can smell cig smoke in the halls and dorms.
Avi K -“2. The Patria was sunk by accident. The intent was to disable it so that the British ym”s could not send it back.”
I honestly don’t know if it was or not. But was all those terrorist acts that I listed in the other topic also “Accidents”?
Zdad -“I said he DID go to Kupat Cholim Doctors and did not return to the US for treatment.”
So what? He got lucky. Medical care exists in these socialized countries, just it isn’t too good. In Israel -the wonderful Kupat Cholim get together every once in awhile and decide which drugs they will pay for and which not. You can’t get drugs from them not on their list, even if this is the only drug to cure your illness!
nfgo3 -“health: you make a number of unsound conclusions but you make one good point.”
Name the so -called “unsound” conclusions.
“End-of-life care under Torah is complicated by a number of considerations. But if government care covers all other situations, then it would be relatively easy for a small group, like frum Jews, to provide reciprocal-style insurance coverage for Jews who want to make their end-of-life health-care decisions in accordance with Torah, without worrying about the financial ruin of their families.”
I wasn’t talking about complicated cases. I was talking about cases where it’s pretty clear cut that you can survive and no exorbitant amount of pain. The Torah would require in cases like these to save yourself. And your delusion that the Jews can just pay for something, eg. refusal to treat old people, is nonsense.
Once the Gov. universal healthcare won’t pay for it -it won’t exist anymore. If there is a certan drug and only this drug for a certain disease and the Gov. decides it’s too expensive and they won’t pay for it. Guess what? The company won’t make it anymore.
chalilavchas – I don’t think this should be sent to him/them because there are others that should be dealt with first.
truthsharer -“Who said harm has to be significant? Hurting yourself is still assur. Smoking one cigarette does harm, albeit tiny harm.”
Even if I’d agree with this statement -since it’s just a tiny harm this you can definitely use the Heter of Hakol Doshin Bo.
“Why is cosmetic surgery assur? It’s assur because you can’t harm yourself. Same here.”
Who said it’s Ossur?
GAW -“Chovel B’Atzmo is Assur.”
That research paper would Not fall into that category.
nfgo3 -“In light of the Torah requirement for health care, I continue to be puzzled by the vehement opposition of so many readers on this site to Obamacare or “European socialized medicine”. It is a Torah obligation, and I have not read a cogent, Torah-based reason to oppose Obamacare or some other government assurance that we all will have medical care without financial ruin – of the patient or society.”
Either you are extremely naive or you’re a born and bred Socialist. You’re like the early Communists -Communism is a perfect system. E/o, including the Conservatives would be pro Obamacare if it was reality. There is a reason the US has the best medical care in the world. There is only a certain amount of money that the Gov. can and will spend on Healthcare. What happens when they reach that limit? I’ll tell you -they limit Healthcare (which btw is against the Torah). Well how do I know this will be bad? Because it already occurs in countries with socialized medicine. Eg. – you reach a certain age with a disease like Cancer and they will refuse to treat you – your life, no matter how good of a chance you have in beating the disease, is Not of any value to society anymore. This even occurs in Israel -I don’t know if this exact scenario does, but other similar things like this do. So, do you think this is consistent with the Torah view????
Naftush -“(“the Zionists” = the State of Israel and its secular population)in two of the three worst crimes in our Book: A”Z and murder. In my opinion, the quotations and views that they present to support this are outdated, irrelevant, taken out of context, or all or some of the above.”
It’s funny how you deny the truth because s/o brainwashed you.
I’ve proven by historians that early Zionists were terrorists during English rule. Therefore they are Rotzchim. Sorry if this doesn’t jive with your view of Zionism/Zionists. Again I’ve brought down historians who have documented the irradication of Religious Judaism from Olim to Israel from the Arab lands (Sefardim). This is considered the worse type of AZ to force s/o to become Frei. Again, I’m sorry that this also doesn’t jive with what you have been brainwashed your whole life.
Avi K -“Health, I was referring to those frum Jews abroad who have businesses and professions. So far as those here are concerned, if they are really learning they are also contributing. If not and they are not working, not.”
Again you are twisting the truth. The Zionists like Lapid & company, when calling the Charedim parasites didn’t distinguish amongst us. And they don’t hold like you do “as long as they are really learning” -they want time limits on how long s/o can learn.
So why should Frum Jews move there? They can’t learn and have to go to the army. Even the working ones, as far as I know, don’t get an automatic Ptur from the army, if they make Aliya. The Zionists like you want them to move there because 1. More taxes to feed the Treif Medina; 2. More Jews to draft and possible make Frei, but you keep insisting that it’s the Frum people’s fault that the Medina is the way it is. I think it’s the “Religious” Zionists fault because they agree and make up the coalition to do whatever the Chilonim demand. In this Gov. the Chilonim, like Lapid, are demanding to do away with the Status Quo and turn Israel totally into a State not based on any Torah.
zvei dinim – Here is my Zvei Dinim -it depends what kind of part- time smoker you are. If you smoke anytime somebody gives out cig., eg. for every Chosson, then IMHO this is Ossur, but if s/o smokes a pack once a year – on let’s say Purim, for the fun of it, then I see nothing wrong with this.
yichusdik – You first say –
“The problem with this problem is that it is bigger than just this case. Or this issue.”
And then you say:
“Error in itself is not a disqualification for leadership, from the POV of anyone using critical thinking. What may be, though, is bdavka non recognition of the error, not being mekabel a better derech for the future, or not applying standards equally across the board.
It’s not for any of us to set standards for our manhigim. It is for them to set and meet standards for themselves that will not fail the test of critical thinking.”
This to me is wrong! You recognize that a problem exists and it’s Not a one time deal, but then you say it’s just an error and it’s Not our place to correct it -then whose place is it? While ideally they should correct themselves -they haven’t -so who should stand up if not the regular people?
The purpose in this world is – if you see bad things happening to try to stop it. B’mokom Shein Ish Yishtadel Leeyos Ish.
One of the reasons that the Torah punishes people is Lman Yilmidu Veerohu -do you think if enough people got together and protested about the leaders, like I said previously that there are leaders and followers amongst the Rabbonim, that nothing would be done?
Even if the Klal didn’t get rid of these leaders, but at least there would be Lman Yilmidu Veerohu.
Do you think perhaps some of these Rabbonim when they hear something they don’t like in the future because they are Nogieah to the other side that perhaps they would hesitate to go around saying that this guy is crazy, like they did to me? I think they would think twice. The fact that they haven’t corrected these major issues is because most people have Not taken them to task.
So the few like me that get up are labeled crazy.
OOmis – While Chai Lifeline is a good org.; tell the family the best org. to get financial help is –
Rofeh Cholim Cancer Society
http://www.rofehcholim.org – Info
768 Bedford Ave, Brooklyn, NY
(718) 722-2002
chalilavchas -“B”H most Rabbanim have never been caught twisting the truth. Only those who have been caught twisting the truth, need to be retired, perhaps.”
I don’t think anyone has done it B’maizid. And it’s more than just a few like you say. But there are two categories 1. Leaders 2. Followers. #1 category would be Shoggeg Korov L’maizid. #2 would be Shoggeg. #1 should be retired.
There are a lot of way more important issues than Tzinus and Internet that either aren’t being dealt with or aren’t dealt with properly and this Must stop ASAP!
Avi K -“Every 70,000 new olim equals a Knesset seat. With all of the current religious members this would make a very strong plurality.”
Instead of admitting your lies you just say plurality. But they wouldn’t make a majority. And what would Israel do with so many Frum Jews? Of course they would draft them to try to Shmad more of them to their Zionist AZ!
“Not to mention the economic strength that the olim would command.”
What economic strength? All Zionists hold that all Charedim are parasites. You mean they really don’t hold that? You mean they actually contribute to society? Naw, it can’t be.
Avi K -“part the fault of frum Jews who do not make aliya, become citizens and vote.”
Regarding this fantasy -I’ve posted to you many times -this in no way, right now, would give the Frum Jews any sort of majority. Why do you keep posting the same things over and over again -when simple math tells you it’s obviously Not the truth -it won’t make any real difference?
chalilavchas -“Im not the Judge, Hashem is, but when I read this sentence off Rabbi B’s statement, I cringe: etc.”
Unfortunately, I’m well aware of what goes on. And the fact that he made such a statement or signed such a statement -I do Not condone. But, I’m trying to tell you based on my own personal dealings with them and I can honestly say the case was not molestation, but something equally bad or worse, and Rav B. IMHO is more from the follower type than of the leader type. I believe the leaders of these Rabbonim share more of the responsibilities for these fiascos -than those who follow these leaders blindly.
chalilavchas -“Hopefully the OU will take a very in depth serious look at Rabbi B’s position, who is an important part of the OU.”
Stop trying to blame this on him. As s/o who has dealt with Rabbonim in the past -I think he was more of a follower than the leaders. There are some Rabbonim esp. here in Lakewood that are more leaders. While blame should be brought on all of them, IMHO the ones who take the lead are more responsible for these type of incidents than the Rabbonim who just go with the flow.
WIY -“I was told that Rav Moshe held that bizman hazeh there is no longer such a thing as tinok shenishbah so basically they are all meizidim of some degree. They know they are Jewish and they know that there is such a thing as being an Orthodox Jew and they have an obligation to pursue their heritage.”
That’s Not what I heard. I heard he held this about s/o growing up in the NY area. So anywhere else -it would depend on how much Judaism the person was exposed to.
Avi K –
1. They might live under persecution, but how many Xitians have been killed in let’s say Egypt this year? As many Jews that were killed in Israel? I think Not. You keep pushing the Zionist propaganda in spite of the truthful facts!
2. Yes, only acc. to Torah. I got news for you the State of Israel doesn’t keep the Torah.
3. Only acc. to Torah. Stop living in your fantasy world that the State is based on Torah -it’s based on Kefira. It’s not just the Chilonim’s way of life – everyday the State looks to remove some sort of Torah from it’s laws. Why don’t you listen to Lapid who keeps saying how much removal he’s planning on doing to Israeli Law?
4.”Kmohem Yehyu Oseyhem Kol Asher Boteyach Bohem” is going on those who have faith in other religious groups.”
Exactly and Zionism fits into this category!
chalilavchas -“And what about catering to their readership? The Frume Oilem would benefit greatly by the airing of this issue in a respectful way.”
They would never touch it. They don’t want anyone proclaiming that it’s Ossur to read their paper. Even on the Net how many people would stand up against wrong behavior if e/o wasn’t anonymous? I know I would.
ROB -“(Nigeria??)”
Ya see – the reason they are in Nigeria is because when the Medina moves to Uganda, like the original plan, there won’t be any Muslims there to bother the Jews.
“I hope you had a good yomtov.”
Yes I did. And I said in Hallel -“Kmohem Yehyu Oseyhem Kol Asher Boteyach Bohem”. This is refering to Idol worship like the Medina, but the real Jews believe in “Yisroel Bitach BaHashem etc”.
chalilavchas -“Will any publication speak up, in a polite, bekovodik, tactful way regarding innocents who were demonized? Or, will it be shoved under the rug?”
It will be shoved under the carpet. And I’ll tell you why because what happened in this case and others were big guys were wrong is because a few Askanim convince a few Rabbonim who are influenced by these people and they make a bad Psak. Not all Rabbonim are influenced by Shoychad (there are all types of Shoychad, not just money) and then the other Rabbonim who aren’t the type to be influenced just think if this Rav said so it must be so and join along the crowd. We don’t necessarily have to get rid of our Rabbonim, but definitely this basing of the Psak on the politically correct side has to stop. This might mean retiring some Rabbonim, but what goes on now is Not the Torah way!
ROB -“The sad part is that you live in a fantasy world of your own making. How the Jews fared in the Ottoman world has no relationship to today’s world, when -as Leyzer wrote- the Muslim religion has metastasized into a virulent , murderous religion that will not deal kindly with any religion other than their own-see Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Nigeria and others, too numerous to mention.”
And the fact that you don’t mention is that this has to do mostly because of the creation of the Medina. The reason you don’t want to look back to the times before the Medina is because you don’t want to believe that the Medina has caused this great hatred from the Muslims. The fact is the Islam religion hasn’t changed over hundreds of years. The fact is the Zionists started up with them because they convinced themselves that to solve the Jewish problem would be to create a State. They sorely missed the boat -to solve the Jewish problem we need to return to our Father in Heaven. By pretending that the State will solve the problems only causes Hashem to be more angry at the Jewish people; by getting rid of it is the first step in going back to Hashem.
Avi K -“Health, I am also interested in knowing what you are smoking.”
You like ROB are drunk on the AZ of Zionism!
“Because of the debts on the “Hurva” synagogue he Turks persecuted ASshkenazi olim to the extent that they had to adopt Sephardi dress (this is, in fact, the origin of the Yerushalmi robes). At the outbreak of WW1 they expelled Jews who had not taken Ottoman citizenship”
So you’re saying the victims of Arab terrorism and their families are happy they died under Israeli rule, than have to be alive under the “terrible” persecution of the Turks? And you ask me what I’m smoking?!?!
“HaKatan, and America and European countries can protect their citizens?”
You’re right they can’t because of Liberalism that prevades Western society. But we are still safer here than under the protection of the IDF, even with the drafting of the Charedim, and the Medina. Or are you oblivious to fact of how many Jews have been killed in Israel since the beginning of the Medina compared to how many Jews have been killed in Western countries?
Leyzer -“this is delusional nonsense. the Muslim fanatics are bent on worldwide jihad. They only want Palestine because the Jews are there. if the Jews would relocate to The Diaspora, as you propose, the jihadists would follow them there chas vesholom.
Your enthusiasm for bashing the medinah leads you to unreasonable points of view.”
Another alter ego of ROB.
I have been posting about the Medina for years now. I’ll just assume that you are actually a new poster and Not one of these Zionists hiding behind a new SN.
I obviously can Not repeat all my posts about the Medina, but I will give you a quick summary. The basic Hatred of Jews from the Muslim world is because the Jews made a Medina. Yes, Muslims always hated Jews, but every Goy hates Jews and the muslims are/were no different. The Medina caused the hatred to grow a thousand-fold. Getting rid of the Medina would cause most of the Muslim world to go back to the original hatred.
All what I have posted now I based on historical fact of which I’ve previously posted.
chalilavchas -“Is/should effort be made by those who put pressure on the victim’s family, to ask Mechila from the family whose lives were made miserable and were demonized and chased out of their community, causing the innocent victim’s family immeasurable emotional, financial, etc hardships?”
I don’t want to change the subject, but molestation is Not the only bad thing that goes on. And I’m not refering to internet and lack of Tzinius.
Back to the topic -I read on another Frum website -that the next Asifa they should take all the Rabbonim and others who defended the perp and attacked the victim and put them on a Dais. At this Asifa they should publically ask Mechila to the victims and/or pay for their costs that were involved.
ROB -“Secondly- you continue your lunatic options of “giving away the medinah to simply save lives”. What are you smoking?”
Actually you are the one Shikur with the AZ of the Medina!
“Turkey (your very favorite Turkey) is killing the Kurds and imprisoning their citizens, on the way to an Islamic republic…AND YOU WANT US TO GIVE AEAY THE MEDINAH TO…WHOM??? stop your lunacy!”
I’ll just respond to Turkey because they are the country I suggested. You seem to lose any logic when it comes to the Medina. I said to give the Medina to Turkey -the Kurds are looking for independence. Do you not see a difference? And Turkey has a track record, of before WW1, of being good to the Jews. This you want to ignore. You also want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews have been killed or maimed just so Zionists should have a State. There was hardly any Jewish bloodshed, if at all, during the rule of the Ottoman empire!
ROB -“I must be a glutton for punishment because,normally, i would totally ignore the rantings of HaKatan and Health,his alter ego.”
First of all, you don’t want punishment, but you want the last word, even if you don’t have any new arguments, but you still keep repeating the same old stuff that you’ve been brainwashed with. Second, it’s a shame that there are only two of us here that are extremely against the Medina and therefore you mention me as his alter ego.
“and you campaign continually for its destruction (see also Health’s lunatic Turkish option), without giving one moment’s thought to what would happen- chas vecholiloh- if your wishes ever became reality.”
Actually the reason I feel we should give away the Medina to others is simply to save lives. You are in this dream world it will be worse and there would be some sort of Holocaust. In truth once the hatred goes away -so will most (if not all) of the killing of Jews.
You are happy with there being victims almost everyday as long as you have your Medina; but of course as long as the victims aren’t your family!
writersoul -“Have you confirmed that every single thing Lipman wants to put in place isn’t already present in the chiloni system?”
You actually have to read all my posts to understand my point. Go back and read them (perhaps a few times) and realize that your question is irrevelant to my point!
Avi K -“Health, nobody is forcing them to do anything”
It was clear from the rest of my post what I meant by force. Giving them an ultimatum is wrong -at least until they do the same thing with the Chilonim. But they will never admit the Charedi education beats the Chiloni education -it’s not just what you learn, but how you turn out also.
mdd -“Without those subjects they turn out not having the skills to learn a normal parnossa!!! I am sure you learnt plenty of science to become a doctor,did not you? Not everything the Israeli Government does is evil. OK? It is hypocricy on your part to decry the introduction of the secular studies in E.Y. yeshivos as you yourself learnt plenty of it!”
In your haste to defend your beloved Zionists -you didn’t read and/or understand my post. I said the Zionists have no right to force anything on the Charedim – if they want to learn secular subjects on their own -then fine. And if you say well they support them -this doesn’t mean a thing because they also support Chiloni schools. And since the Frum schools are doing a better job in creating decent human beings, like I posted above, start fixing up the Chiloni schools and then come to the Frum schools. After you fix up the Chiloni schools then you can come to the Frum schools with your ultimatums!
Zdad -“One should be embarrassed that those agitarors embarrassed a Gadol.”
They did Not embarrass any Godol because their actions did Not represent any Godol.
EY Mom -“Number one, can someone please show me one chareidi school that doesn’t teach basic math?”
Even if they don’t -since when is it the Gov. responsibility to make sure that they do? This is the parents’ responsibility. Putting yourself in place of the parents is definitely Rishous. Now I personally don’t believe any Yeshiva should take money from the evil Zionists -so maybe this is a good thing.
“Number two, can someone please tell me – if Yesh Atid et al do not have an agenda, how come Arab schools get to teach whatever they want and still keep their funding, but chareidi schools can’t?”
Hypocrisy at it’s finest. All of a sudden we have to cut funding to Yeshivos because of no English or Math. It’s funny even without these core subjects most Charedim turn out to be decent citizens. If there is a problem in education it’s in the Freye schools. After these schools they learn behaviors which aren’t good for society, like violent crime, alcoholism, drug addiction, how to get AIDS, how to have abortions, etc. Perhaps the Israeli Gov. should pay more money to the Yeshivos to teach them how to raise people who won’t have all society ills. They seem to be doing a much better job than the rest of the Israeli society.
I personally don’t see a prob, but ask your LOR.
Brony – I personally agree with Zdad approach, but just because some people do those things -it doesn’t embarrass me. The only thing that Jews should be embarrassed about is that the Zionists have turned the Kosel into a tourist attraction -where some women come without proper dress and some put on Tallis and Tefillin, etc.
And it’s a shame that the modern Jews don’t even realize what the true embarrassment is!
Why would anyone go for surgery without first trying diet and exercise and then trying the lap band? This is the second topic about surgery in the recent past and it seems no one mentioned all the possible complications.
HaKatan -“The main reason is that the Internet is primarily an awareness issue, whereas smoking is clear to everyone whose head is not in the sand that it is wrong.”
Obviously not. Why are all these Yeshiva boys starting to smoke?
Perhaps they need awareness that it’s a problem?
Adams -the fact is in the US it’s illegal and if you legalize it -it won’t solve any problems. Obviously the decrease in accidents in those States has nothing to do with Pot. In Switzerland it’s basically legal and Pot usage has increased -the same will happen here. And even though Alcohol usuage has dropped slightly, even if due to switching to Pot instead of alcohol, it is still a major problem in Switzerland. They have two major social problems there and we are following suit.
You just don’t want to face the facts about Pot. And your theory that it’s Not worse than cig. smoking, alcohol abuse, etc., even if true, doesn’t point to legalizing Pot – only to illegalizing the other things!