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OfCourse – I think you are underestimating the #’s by an awful lot. There are wedding packages nowadays in a limited amount of halls for approximately $10-15K, but that is only in a small less-than-handful of halls. I know first hand, having run the numbers for weddings, that it is usually much costlier, & I’m not speaking about the finest of everything (one-man band, silk flowers or Gmach,limited liquor, etc.)
Re: the question — this is a no-brainer for me. The Down Payment of course. I also viewed it as:
Why put on a show, feeding the world (most of whom you don’t really care about) the finest of meals (that they won’t remember the following day), cause stress to those who are picking up the tab, and then move into a leaky basement or an apartment with no growth, where YOU end up stressing to pay rent OR
Get married simply, with the goal of “getting married” in mind, forget about what the yentas will say, forget about satiating the food-dwellers, cut costs & save money so that you don’t end up being short-changed or broke the following day.
One of the most important rules I learnt re: making a simcha from my parents is: don’t make a simcha depending on the gifts you’ll get.
Lastly, I commend & admire your outlook, yogi. It’s extremely healthy & I’m sure your mom, who sacrificed for you, is incredibly proud.
Why not just tell the couple “I completely understand that you want a mortgage now. However, I’m not a bank. I can help arrange a meeting with your local mortgage banker if you’d like…”
A little bit of sarcasm with your overly-demanding, spoiled-sounding rich kids is in order here…
Enough blaming their attitudes on anyone but them & start taking action to represent what your values & true feelings are.
There is simply no room for such Chutzpa on their end here.
And if this does mean a strained relationship with your kids — if this isn’t the straw that breaks the camel’s back, something is bound to soon. Because they’ll just become more & more demanding.
make croutons – for soup & salad
I realize that it’s very hard to come to terms with things like this when one feels so dependent on others & so rejected by them…but Hashem truly is in charge.
That being said, because it is a lofty concept, here goes the practical side —
It’s not worth fighting to get into a club that doesn’t want you as a member on grounds that are ridiculous. Why would you want to belong to such a group?
In the same vein, why push to get into a family that has preconceived & silly notions that they will hold against you for no good reason? Wouldn’t you prefer going into a family that will cherish you for who you are & not judge you for reasons that are beyond your control?
Your in-laws will be proud of whom you are & where you come from & welcome you into their family proudly….
Don’t settle for anything less than that. And then, you won’t be settling.
A member of the ADL – Anti “Deaf”amation League — those who protest the music at weddings – and rightfully so!
I think that most people are making too many assumptions here.
Here’s what really matters —
in the short term, this is how this young man is ok conducting himself. Whether he is poor (more likely) or cheap is irrelevant. The fact that he treated you in this manner shows you how he intends to treat you if nothing else in his world changes.
Can you live with this?
If you were ok with this & you didn’t question it as odd or cheap, I’d say “try again”.
The fact that you questioned it & it didn’t sit well with you speaks loudly.
As for the train – I have no problem with it being used as a method of transportation, providing he treats you like a gentleman & takes you door to door.
The water bottle – perhaps he’d thought you may want it on the way home…who knows?
Taking you to Manhattan — poor judgement on his part! Perhaps he was trying to give you all the glamour he could afford – a trip into the city, rather than a local cup of coffee.
Either way, every pot has their cover. I’ve seen far more odd…
It sure beats the guy who packed up his date’s Indian food (ugh) leftovers to give to his sister-in-law, whom he was going to see the following day…Now, that was cheap!
so, where’d you learn to write poetry?
24K for utilities = 2K monthly. Family of 6, heat, air-conditioning, gas + maintaining these (boiler, etc.).
4K for phones = $333/mth. Family of 6, kids usually have cel phones nowadays, parents have cels (need at least 2 plans with add-ons) + landline
These are reasonable estimates.
My point was that these are CRAZY numbers. And I don’t understand how people are doing it…
Just a note re: the above — Some may find these #’s inflated. In Brooklyn life tends to be cheaper than the rest of the NY frum areas.
Also, if a mother & father both have high-powered positions, there are many addt’l expenditures that they’ll need to keep the kids & house in check.
Now let’s understand why some prefer not to work at average positions and decide to stay home & collect from our favorite Uncle. He may not offer much, but the numbers are often higher than when one works
I did the math many moons ago & 200 sounds about right….
The problem is – 200K is not your typical dual-family income. Not in the real world. Most people simply don’t bring in that much, even in the big professions.
And I’m not so sure that there is much, if anything, to put away into a retirement account.
Let’s do a quick run –
Mortgage – 36K
Utilities – 24K
Phones – 4K (home, cellphones)
Tuition – 50K (conservative number for 4 kids)
Cars – 20K (conservative number for 2 cars – lease+upkeep+gas)
Camps – 20K (conservative number for 4 kids)
Food – 18K (don’t even think Pesach)
I haven’t yet touched on take-out, cleaning help, clothing, laundry, dry cleaning…not to mention real luxuries like vacations, etc. Nor have I included Uncle Sam or retirement
We’re already at 172K!
Something’s just not right in the Frum world of NY
Lastly, Birthing Centers are a good alternative, as they are equipped for emergency situations, and they can offer natural & modern options, such as birthing in a pool, etc.
Use a midwife in a hospital…we did…and, as it turned out, while all went well, B’H, there was a scare at the end of birth & our midwife called for a Dr., who was just a few feet away on the Labor & Delivery Floor, to assist.
What is Reb Chaim Kanievsky’s address, if it’s that simple to get a response….
Thanks
btw – HOW DO I FIND AN OLDER COFFEE ROOM DISCUSSION NOT LISTED ON THE BOARD
i instruct my children to call adult females either doda, tanta, aunt, morah, ms., & males uncle, mr., etc…..
if you start teaching them respect when they are young, you are teaching them menchlichkeit for life…
And one last thing — it truly is in the MIL / SIL hands to begin with….If they open up their hearts & family to the stranger in question — aka the wife of the son / brother, chances are all will be well or at least a cold peace will exist.
The MIL should be smart, not self-centered — bottom line. The SIL should “get a life” and not make her brother’s miserable.
A lot of people seem to have gotten off point here.
My sense is that a DIL & MIL & SIL have natural friction that is acknowledged in the Torah.
If not for the one common point that brought them together — the spouse / son / brother, they most probably would not ever come to the point of friction. Either they’d befriend one another or have nothing to do with each other.
Therefore, it is the spouse/son/brother ‘s obligation & responsibility to smooth things over. His obligation is clearly stated in the Torah — it is primarily to his wife. This takes precedance over his parents.
No one said that the DIL / MIL / SIL must love one another. However, they should act respectfully to one another.
And if the unfortunate happens & the friction arises, and a man must “choose” or take sides, it better be the side of his wife he chooses to stick by.
Because if he doesn’t, the road for him is being paved downhill, to the point where he may find that he doesn’t have a wife to stick by.