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“{There’s no question that all streams are different than Jews were in the past, the difference between each of today’s streams is how they have adapted to today’s reality.
Everyone thinks that they have adapted in the manner that our gedolim from the past (going back to Chazal and even earlier) would have wanted, and therefore “default” Judaism, and the others are movements. “
FALSE
for all their shrill claims and endless number of articles printed and typed,
No Centrist honestly believes that they are the real McCoy
.For one , they spend so much of their time with shrill endless number of articles printed and/or typed, pointing out the flaws and faults of Chareidim or yeshivish and preaching how they are the divergence from the past that the proof is in the pudding.
“When you’re weak on Defense, Stay on Offense”
The irony is when they wish to rely on some dubious kula, you’ll/they’ll invariably pull up some chareidi/chassidic group as proof that it could be acceptable.
Furthermore.. if a gadol from an earlier generation would come back today and in the higly unlikely scenario instruct myself that my derech hachaim is somehow mistaken, I would be delighted
The Modox (and most Chassidim for that matter) would be so miserable as to send him back where he came from!
“It was very difficult to move to Palestine before 1917. The Turks who controlled it allowed very few jews to move there and the ones who were able had trouble because it was difficult to make a parnassah there .”
As late as 1927 ,with all the money raised and propaganda, and the net emigration rate from Palestine was greater than the immigration
Avi K,
Had you read earlier posts from myself, your claims would be preempted
Gavra, etc.
Supporting any movement that publicly disapproves of any of the 3 chamuros makes other than a charedi or Frum ( irresepective of your garb)
Zahavasdad,etc.,
You’ll welcome to keep throwing
What’s will be next after agricultural societies, and now zionism?
Seems the stakes are awfully high for you and yours
“The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with …”
The Frum Jew “saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always..” …
And To borrow from Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
When it comes to Hashkapha ,We have traditonally stayed away from Rambam
Rav Joseph Ber Soloveitchik
is on record for that as well
To Sum Up
Some so badly desire to emphasize the differences between past present ,and glorious future , in order rationalize a lower national common denominator
….They’ll have to try selling their wares somewhere else
a
‘do you really believe a shift from life revolving around beis hamikdash and karbanos to today is merely “minor sociological details” ‘?
It depends for whom
As the old saying would go “You are where your head is”
zahavasdad,ubiquitin,etc.
So you wish to sell us that for our ancestors Shavuos was primarily a Wheat Festival,Tu B’Av a Festival Of Love, Succos a Harvest Festival,etc., [just like the old kibbutzim]?
Sorry
typo ancestors
ubiquitin,
Ludicrous
All that would’ve concerned our anscestors would be
Once more,
Do haredim today have the Same Goals,
Destiny,and Purpose, as the past or Not?
If this is satisfactory
everything else are minor sociological details
Obviously however Nevuah is no longer
Our religion experienced extraordinary change between the era of Nevuah, the twilight era of the 2nd Beis Hamikdosh, and the Post Nevuah era
But
everything else are minors sociological details
lilmod ulelamaid,
Same here
“There is something I have been wondering about. When I first started dating, I was super-uncomfortable, having basically” rarely spoken to a girl
There has however been one movement that burst onto the scene which snowballed and whose aftershocks are still rattling us today and that was/is the chassidic movement
It was surely a seismic revolution/rebellion to the previous established yahadus
The Satmar Rav profoundly understood that
every populist movement since,even irreligious ones could and often would conceivably claim a commonality and kindred spirit with the early chassidim
and the combustion needed to somehow be reigned in
It is with reason and great sagacity
that the Satmar Rav wrote in a letter” ???? ???? ??????? “
For all those who like pointing out innovations that brought into “flowing current” during recent centuries
‘there have been adjustments in Jewish practice over the centuries. Hillel’s prozbul comes to mind, as does Cherem Rabbeinu Gershon on marriage and divorce, and other such modifications. There were promulgated by the great sages of the day in order to preserve the integrity and the spirit of the Torah, in fulfillment of the mishmarti in Vayikra 8:35: “you shall protect that which protects [My Torah].” (see Yevamot 21a and Moed Katan 5a)
,
Do haredim and/or ‘others’ have the Same Goals,
Destiny,and Purpose, as the past or Not?
Some insist incessantly here and elsewhere on rehashing over little details
A doctor once told myself and others “netain reshus l’ropheh l’raph’os”
How come doctors need permission derived from the passuk to practice more than other fields?
Because in Medicine every 10 years or so you need to throw out all the textbooks and start almost from scratch
So we need explicit permission for us to “go To the Doctors of your days”
do they have to be in complete contradiction?
DaasYochid,
What else is Moshiach about?!
On A COLLECTIVE Level
“Charedi is just the term people use to describe Yeshivish or Chassidim as opposed to the prejorative Ultra-Orthodox”
Maybe for some
More likely the term Charedi was originally imported by modox writers as a sleight of hand in order to segregrate traditional Yeshivish from mainstream thereby dimishing their impact.
It also then adopted by the chassidish inclined to give themselves a sort of continuity
For most of us in North America it’s the opposite probably
We may be Ultra-Orthodox
But Charedi is a black cloistered medieval prejorative
We are in this world for the purpose of bringing moshiach
That is all .
(There are many mouthing piousness whose goals are ..very different)
We have way too few working(in whatever endeavor) towards that goal
Possibly the saddest accomplishment of Lubavitch is/was they pushed the mainstream to be wary of everyone who emphasized Moshiach
In short , absolutely
Is it amazing how haredi , whether as a postive or more often as pejorative, has ever moving goalposts?
simcha613,etc.,etc.,
Did Conservatism start with Sir Walter Scott and the Romanticists?
Some would say it did ,which is ridiculous
It was obviously always there, they just overtly ,due to world developments, cultivated a consciousness
Same with Charediism
You’ve imbibed too many modox propaganda articles
In Telz it
appears the “Custom” was ignored entirely
81 Percent Of Israelis Living In Poverty Believe They Will Always Be Poor
Person1,
while joseph is prone to exaggeration ,you ought to spend some days in a row in Kiryat Malachi or Afula
While it is getting gradually better,
Are you in a lala land of your own?
“then university act as an equalizer”
Who controls who gets accepted?
Have the stats?
‘ But once they integrated, gave up their “antiquated” customs and behaviors, and became “Israeli”, ‘
In a word, they would have to give give away their culture ,conform to whatever yours’ is for this decade
Talk about a pot calling a kettle black
Do you only accept african americans who wear slacks and vests,and say”yes m’am” and “sir”?
Joseph,
until it comes to shidduchim
To Be Candid
Above all,
The Earlier Zionists desired assiduously a european state placed unfortunately [ as the arabs have contended] in the mid east
Anyone who happened to be in the way…
Israel inherited a English School System
Rather than A Country has Schools
it’s almost
Schools have a Country
Plus, In smaller countries where people live near/on top of each other , unless you’re righteous, you’re bound to incessantly search for things to put you [ plural] above the hoi polloi
For this ,In America it’s more similar then we would admit ,they just find other many other things
Was Tu B’Av (Girls going out) Tznius?
“I actually heard that there was a Rav who said that people should go out at least 8 times
Rav M Bick said it ,over 4+ decades ago
Lu,Your comment was crucial
lesschumras,
Once upon a ..
it could’ve been merit to what you contend.
Today however ,orthodox have become so hasty to adopt american norms because”Being Jewish and American are not mutually exclusive” after all, that we must reestablish
Chukos ha’goyim
Second, Goyim invariably come to despise yidden who wish to prove they are more
American than the americans
or more Dutch than the dutch
The International Community and The Hague side with my definition
And yourself.. The frum media?
LU,
You really hit the proverbial nail on the head with your
” but I’ve always wondered if there’s any real source for it… It does seem to fly in the face of the concept of ??? ????? ???????,
……”
It should become the go-to on the subject
Everything added is superfluous
You chose a very narrow definition of terrorism
???? ??? ?????? ??? ????
is brought down in a few places
typo Lower East Side
“You don’t think I know how to cook eggs”?
Once while spending a weekend on the Lowere east side several years ago
Rav Dovid .
made for myself grilled cheese for melava malka
He had a most unusual way of doing it.
He put it on an open pan on the stove .Put a piece of Cheese on a piece of challah ,and then pressed down on them both with a pot and presto..
Females were some of the ardent,passionate supporters of nazism ,
more than the men overall were
The bolsheviks relied on hundreds and hundreds of ardent [jewish]women
Women have a certain spirit
It could lofty
or it could be for evil
“swords became totally obsolete (some armies still use them”
For esprit d’corps
There was a british commando who always went into battle with a sword on his side
Because ” a gentleman wears a sword”
It is also about Cannon
They were forbidden
So should automatic weapons and probably semi automatics
You would agree there’s a commonality between piracy and terrorism?
What’s the difference between piracy and privateering ?
Because one is state sanctioned?
What about religious jews who financed and even served as pirates as revenge against Spain?
Is this above your paygrade?
benignuman,
Well said
Watergate and Congress
Geordie613,
South African yidden constantly reminisce with nostalgia for the “good old, peaceful” days prior to the breakup of Apartheid
Back then,however, they were the biggest fighters and activists against Apartheid!?
WinnieThePooh, fair enough
Hit ’em Hard Harry
With a name like Harry probably it would have unnecessary
Unlike Franklin Delano
John Fitzgerald
Pardon,
Marshal Smuts
was Prime Minister. That was before South Africa became a Republic
RebYidd23,
” one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist”
used to be a famous dictum. It’s on the internet presumably
lightbrite,
For
hashkafa
Or
Halacha
??
Of Course there ought to be
and there is overlap
Somethings are assur , some mutar ,some bide’avad.
Some would be
kosher aval assur
We ignore that Apartheid South Africans were the bulwark against communism for virtually the whole southern half of the African Continent