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Wow, that actually worked! Cool! I hadn’t understood how that worked! Thanks, Randomex!
this
Ubiquitin, I never changed my mind.
In response to the OP, Joseph had said:
“Who said your father has the right to “allow” you to change from your family mesorah?”
You said:
“I think changing mesora is dangerous
I believe strongly in following the minhagim of our parents (barring extenuating circumstances). Once we start uprooting MEsora because of what is “better” even if it is in fact better due to historical factors, or new changes in society it is opening pandoraas box””
These things were said in response to the OP. The implication was that the OP was doing something terrible. That sounded extreme to me since I hadn’t thought it was such a terrible thing for someone to change his minhagim from his father’s minhagim, especially in the circumstances described by the OP.
That is what most of my posts were in response to.
I then looked back at your latest post (at that point) and saw you had written this:
“but mesora should be respected, and just disacrding it is a dangerous game.”So I commented on that point because I wanted to make it clear that no one was arguing with that. The argument was on what seemed to be a strong attack on the OP, and an implication that one is never allowed to not follow his father’s minhag, even in the OP’s case. While I don’t agree with you on that, that doesn’t mean that I think that mesorah should not be respected. I wanted to make it clear that I don’t disagree with that particular statement of yours.
It is possible that your original post was not meant as an attack on the OP per se’, and you were just making a general comment about the issue. However, coming as it did in response to the OP, it sounded to me like you were attacking what he is doing.
Perhaps that is not how you meant it, but if you reread the OP and your comment following, I think you will see that it certainly sounds like it.
L’maaseh, I don’t have a definite opinion on the topic, and I do think that there is room for more than one approach. My point was that I didn’t think the OP should be attacked or criticized for changing his minhagim, but that doesn’t mean that I disagree with your statement that Mesorah should be respected. I see no contradiction between those two statements.
The green box that’s under the sentence that’s under the response box.
So no one has answered me yet :(.
But I see Randomex has a comment that is awaiting moderation. I have a feeling he may have answered me – he’s the type. I guess I will have to wait and see.
Mod 29 – lol. Maybe you should have said “the green one”.
Hey Meno, that’s cool! How’d you do that? I thought we can’t do color?
Experiment:
🙂
“:)”
What is this picture from anyhow?
oh, thanks. seems there have been a lot of those lately. Wonder how you recognize them, and how they get in.
I don’t understand anything it says in the green box or in the line above it, and I still don’t know where people are getting these smileys from 🙁
Can anyone do a Mitzvah and tell me?
LB- I just saw this now. Thank you. I’m glad you saw my post, and I’m glad you are trying to do what’s best for you. I was just concerned because I know that I can do similar things when it’s not good for me. But if you felt it was good for you in this case, that’s incredible!
You are really an amazing person!!! I’m always impressed at how well you deal with it when people are nasty to you in the CR. And I’m impressed by you in general, how you are always trying to grow, and ask questions about things, and by your middos and niceness… etc…
Niceness is way underrated. And smileys are a superior form of language.
And where’d you get the cat from??? I want one!!!!
Which one – Midreshet Rachel?
“Lilmod, I regret not telling him it was okay to date me from the beginning.”
That’s to be expected. Once you started dating him, your emotions took hold and you can no longer think as clearly.
“Lilmod, from what it sounds like to you, your saying that you think he is looking for a girl friend and not a wive?”
YES!
Hey, where’d you get all that cool stuff from?
RY – yeah, people might actually start being nice!
Huh? Why does it say there was a reply 17 hours ago when the last post is from over a year ago? And there’s nothing awaiting moderation?
Elizabeth is from Elisheva and I think Betty is from Elizabeth. So is Beth, so Elisheva should really be the hebrew name for Beth, but Beth’s are usually Batya. I think Eliza and Lisa might also be from Elizabeth so they are all really Elisheva.
I didn’t know that about James, though. Ditto on the “thanks for sharing”.
You can also name him Ovadiah Yosef after R’ Ovadiah Yosef zatsal who was also a big Talmid Chacham and Gadol Hador who was nifter a few years ago.
Or Moshe after Rav Moshe Feinstein, zatsal. Or Yisrael Meir after the Chofetz Chaim, zatsal. Yisrael Meir has become a very common name lately. It’s also a nice name. Yisrael is one of Yaakov Avinu’s names (Jacob) and Meir means “to light up”.
What about naming after a Gadol? Like Yosef Shalom after Rav Elyashiv zatsal who was nifter recently and was a gadol hador. The name means “he will add peace” (Yosef means he will add, and Shalom means peace). Shalom is also one of Hashem’s Names. It is also one of the most important concepts in Judaism and the main thing we are all davening for and trying to acheive.
Now that I think of it, it is really a beautiful name with a beautiful meaning. You also get a lot of choices as to what to call him: He can be Yosef, Shalom, Yossi, Joey, Joe, and of course, Joseph. You can also try Yo! or Sephy but I’m not sure if he’ll appreciate that.
Anyhow, if you name after a Gadol Hador, it’s like giving your son a bracha that he will be like him, and since Rav Elyashiv zatsal was the biggest Talmid Chacham in recent years, that would be some bracha to give your kid!
Well, it’s good we have the “notify” button now.
Oh, right, that won’t help in this case… better send him a message on a thread he’s been posting on, like the Mishloach Manos one.
Thanks. I didn’t realize that was called a subscription. How do you subscribe to a forum?
RY- all babies start out as 0 years old. Of course, no one calls them that…
DY – where did you get that smily from? I want one!
I think from now on when you are trying to decide if a boy is for you, you should compare him to Meno. If you decide that he is “VERY different” from Meno, he is not for you.
Of course, it doesn’t have to be Meno. It can be anyone you know in real life who is sensible, mature, well-grounded religiously and emotionally, cares about you and what’s good for you and is looking out for your best interests and not just for a girlfriend, knows what his goals in life are and those goals are to grow in his Avodas Hashem and he is looking for a partner to help him to fulfill those goals, is honest and doesn’t try to get you to do things you don’t want to do, etc.
Again, from what you wrote before, it was clear that you might eventually reach that conclusion if you let your emotions blind your intellect.
Your originals posts were written before you completely let your emotions take over. So they were written more from logic. But it was clear that you were going in the direction of letting your emotions take over.
Akuperma +1
Best is to be in Eretz Yisrael. That way even if you are killed,c”v, you get the zchus of dying in Eretz Yisrael al kiddush Hashem. Also, it’s much less scary to be killed when you are so close to the Shechina.
And it’s for sure much less scary to live when you are so close to the Shechina!
I think it’s a nail actually. Although my sister used to mix metaphors and hit the hammer on the nail.
In what way did I hit the nail on the head?
I don’t see anyone in the picture holding a camera. Besides, they don’t look like the type to have cellphones with cameras.
From your previous posts, that is clearly not the case. You are clearly acting on your emotions and not your seichel, and he is clearly not good for you.
If you don’t believe me, go back and read your previous posts in the thread on that topic. (That was someone else’s idea – can’t remember who – maybe WTP? – anyhow, it was a great idea!)
“but mesora should be respected, and just disacrding it is a dangerous game.”
I don’t think anyone’s disagreeing with that. No one was saying that anyone should “just discard it”. The OP thought about it carefully, asked his father’s permission, and only changed minhagim because based on what he’s learned he felt it made sense in this instance.
Obviously he didn’t do it so lightly and did find it a difficult move to make which is why he posted here.
I know an Ashkenazi man who married a Sephardi woman. When he got married, he decided that he wanted to take on her minhagim and become Sephardi. He said that he asked Rav Ovadiah zatsal, who told him that not only is he allowed to, he is supposed to, because originally the Sephardim were the majority in Eretz Yisrael, so the Ashkenazim were all supposed to become Sephardim (and Sephardim would t/f still remain the majority).
Of course, as with any second or third hand – story (second-hand for me, third-hand for you), it should be taken with a grain of salt. And I have seen piskei halacha of R’ Ovadiah’s in which he differentiated between Ashkenzaim and Sefardi which would imply that even if he said this, he may not have meant it that literally.
But I am fairly certain that at least the first part is correct (that R’ Ovadiah, zatsal, told him that he can be Sefardi).“I’m genuinly surprised this view of mine is controversial.”
I was surprised that the idea of changing minhagim was so controversial. I imagine you must be from a family with a strong mesorah. I’m not – my parents are both bt, plus we ended up going to a different kind of school than the Yeshiva my father went to. Also, as a girl (and from a family that is mostly female), the whole topic was never particularly relevant to me.
If a family has a very strong mesora, I guess that changing it would be a big deal. But I think that a lot of families don’t. In the OP’s case, since his father gave him permission, and since he is going back to the original minhag of the Ashkenazi world, I really wouldn’t think there would be a problem with it.
Rebshidduch, it is not insulting at all. It shows he cares about you and that he thinks you deserve someone better.
btw, when I mentioned Neve, I wasn’t talking about Shalheves. I know BY graduates who were in the regular part of Neve. I wonder if Neve told you it wasn’t for you because they had an incorrect impression of where you are holding.
Also, why didn’t you apply to Shalhevet?
I don’t know. Like I said, I have had no involvement with the school for many years, and even then, my involvement was limited. These things can change a lot over the years.
At the time, most were baalei teshuvas, so they didn’t necessarily fit into the same categories as FFB’s do exactly. I think that most of them were still at a stage where they were growing religiously and they weren’t ready to pigeonhole themselves into a label yet. The school itself does not pressure the students to fit into a specific category. I always thought of the school as being closer to Yeshivish than to MO. My impression was that the students were a bit of a mix, but also closer to Yeshivish than to MO, but again, I can’t tell you for sure. From what I know of it, it seems to me that it would be a good match for you hashkafically.
My main concern for you would be the age level.
I just see a box. How do we do smileys now?
“Lilmod, I am a religious Jew. Someone like Meno will not work for me.”
???? Huh? What is that supposed to mean? Meno is way Frummer than this guy you are dating!!!!!
Pot Cheese
Oregano“.. The day a relative of mine (AND MOMMY!) found out my screen name.”
LF, for real? A few of my friends mentioned that they sometimes read the CR. I asked if they recognized me, but they hadn’t known to look for me and they don’t go on enough to know the individual posters. If they had known to look for me, I’m sure they would have known me in 2 seconds.
I always wonder if there are people out there who read the CR enough to recognize me.
I think that many families today don’t have such strong mesorahs to begin with. With the transition from Europe to America, I think a lot got lost. Many people stopped being Frum altogether and later their grandchildren were chozer b’teshuva, and many others became more “modern” and their grandchildren “frummed out” In both cases, there was a break in the mesorah.
Amongst those who immigrated to the US after the War and retained their Yiddishkeit, as holocaust survivors many of them also probably lost some of their mesorah. Many of them were young when they lost their parents, and spending all those years in concentration camps, they could easily have forgotten their parents’ minhagim.
Also, in the US today, many people become more “Yeshivish” than their families and when they go away to Yeshiva, they may take on the minhagim from their Yeshiva.
I don’t know if it’s right or wrong, but my impression is that this is common.
I don’t know. I don’t see how it can be a bigger problem than the original chassidim becoming chassidish in the first place.
I never thought it was such a problem for someone to establish their own minhagim when they start their own home as long as it’s according to halacha. But I don’t know, maybe it is, and everyone should ask their own sheilah.
My impression is that a lot of people nowadays don’t keep up the minhagim of their ancestors, but maybe I’m wrong, or maybe they’re wrong.
The one behind the camera.
“You cant”
not fair 🙁
I thought at least when I copy and paste, I can get the color, but I can’t 🙁
you’d think if they upgraded, they would at least allow color…
There are hundreds of names. How can someone list all of them? Can you be more specific regarding what you’re looking for- boy’s name or girls’ name? From Tanach, yiddish names or names that are words (like Chaim, Tova, Bracha, Tikva, etc)?
Are you trying to name a baby? Do you want to name after a Tzaddik or a name from Tanach or are you looking for a name with a nice meaning?
got it – I checked off “notify me…” so I got an email when it was posted, and now I see the edit button on the top. Cool!
How long does the edit window stay on for? I haven’t seen it all!
And how do you know when your post goes through so you can edit it?