Forum Replies Created
Are you aware that you brought out some of my points.
“If a couple mainstreams themselves” (doesn’t wanna only live near other BTs). Sure. I personally think that is best. But not all frum communities are welcoming. Some require rigid conformity, which may be difficult to BTs accustomed to certain freedoms.
“Helpful if we don’t live super near our extended and super-secular family.” That was another point I made, albeit indirectly. Many BTs lack the presence of spirituality and normality within frum families. Of course, there are many dysfunctional frum families (BTs may have the advantage of less enmeshment). Nevertheless, BTs are more vulnerable to the outside world because of secular family.
Think — much of Jewish life is centered around family events — weddings, bar mitzvahs, brissim, etc. Frum Jews are constantly attending relatives’ simchas. Where does that leave the BT? Or his/her children? They already sense the difference between themselves & FFBs.
I do not generalize about BTs. There are many fine ones who have produced, B”H, wonderfully frum children. But I still think they are at greater risk for OTD, given the dynamics described above.
Socialists are somehow viewed as non-judgmental and inclusive, which appeals to people with self-esteem issues. Also, a socialist-style environment will coddle those who are depressed or fragile.
In my younger days, when I was insecure, I might have viewed the Antifa/BLM crowd as the “cool kids.” Today they just seem stupid and suicidal.
My Brooklyn community has an organization for kid who are at-risk or OTD, and there is the guilty secret: the majority come from BT homes.
BTs are handicapped by lack of family support or tradition. Also, many carry baggage or fail to “fit in” due to demeanor or behavior. According to my observation, the ones who do best came from traditional or socially conservative families, or have frum relatives, or have money (which will raise anyone’s status).January 27, 2020 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm in reply to: Why is the Wider Frum Public Making a Big Deal Over Bryant’s Death #1826587
Normally I was never into sports, but for some reason Bryant’s death struck me — perhaps because of its suddenness and his relative youth (not to mention his daughter’s). Granted, he was also a larger-than-life figure.
Basically, it seemed like a reminder not to take anything for granted; make each day count. We don’t know when our time on earth is up.
News of changing community doesn’t surprise me, as I had always predicted “Shtetl USA.” Increasingly young Orthodox couples of all stripe will be moving to the smaller towns and areas because of cheaper cost of living — and more wholesome, insular environment.
In a sense, the Satmars in Jersey City are today’s chalutzim.
I can’t even imagine a separate “Jewish” country — or ANY country — run by Reform Jews, who are highly individualistic, let alone alienated, even from each other. If you are religiously indifferent, chances are you will be indifferent to traditional structures like family, community, nation, etc. The star of the show is you. You will have no loyalty to any country or ideology. Rather, you will want to live in a society that will leave you alone to do your own thing (and even support you, if you’re a Socialist).
Reform and Conservative Judaism (and even Zionism) might have “worked” back in the day when the outside world was separatist and anti-Semitic, and Jewishness was considered ethnic, not religious, identity. Back them, goyim were in a closed world, and the only way for a Jew to enter was conversion to Christianity. These liberal Jewish movements appealed to Jews wanting to westernize while keeping a toehold on their heritage.
My parents, whose own parents were among the huge wave of East European immigrants in the early 20th century, married Jewish, because it was still the norm. Jews stuck together. Although my parents strove to assimilate, it was only up to a point. Intermarriage was taboo.
Nowadays, that it no longer the case. The boundaries have eroded. There is no incentive for non-observant Jews to marry each other, let alone stay in the fold. In fact, the secular even resent organized religion, which is seen as a barrier to personal fulfillment.
I don’t “hate” non-Orthodox Jews (my family still is). But I see the obstacles as far as dealing with their mentality. Hopefully some will discover and appreciate their heritage. But those who don’t will NEVER form their own society. They have none. They don’t want to follow or respect anything — unless it’s feminism, LGBT (who pretty much dominate the liberal movements at this point).
Even the State of Israel will eventually follow that direction, as secular Jews will find little incentive to stay there.
JFem, a few things:
Just because someone may identify with the opposite gender does not make him or her the opposite gender. Many of us possess qualities of the opposite gender. But if the outdoor plumbing and the chromosomes point the other way, sorry. An XY will never be an XX.
A transgender woman is not a woman. It is a mutilated man. And I am not sure the Torah allows that kind of practice.
Some of your threads strike me as highly distorted. What you’re essentially saying is this: “I want to do or be whatever I want, and everyone has to go along with it. Ergo, if I want to pretend to be the opposite gender, the world must accommodate me.”
Sorry, but that is not the Torah view. If we acknowledge a Supreme Being, we acknowledge His will.
(To takahmamash) Same with a cat. I’ll never forget a friend of mine who, during a visit with a shadchan, casually glanced at her watch and said, “I have to go home and feed my cat.”
“A cat!” the shadchan exclaimed. “Don’t tell anyone you own a cat!”
The notion of pets seems goyish to the East European set, who are generally very cold to animals. I generally avoid dogs and cats because of allergies. And while I respect animals, and despise any cruelty toward them, they are of no interest to me as far as pets.
Nevertheless, I understand why people like them. For some, pets can be therapeutic.
Call me either a heretic or a plain hypocrite, but for some reason I don’t mind sitting next to a Gentile male goy, only Jewish. Maybe it’s because goyim to me aren’t that important. The law might be stricter for a Jewish male re sitting next to any woman.
Of course, I prefer to sit next to a woman, and am usually relieved when this happens.
I am truly enjoying this thread — gives me the true flavor (no pun intended) of frum life.
As one of those nursing nickels (and working 2 jobs), I can honestly say that this would be the basis of a GREAT cookbook. Call if “Real Cooking for Real Frum People.”
Seriously. Looking at all the “gourmet” kosher cookbooks that are out, I often wondered — who ARE these people? How do they have the money, let alone the time, to concoct these elegant meals? What do they do — just float around the room?
A cookbook like this would fly off the shelves.February 21, 2012 2:55 am at 2:55 am in reply to: New news story- OTD Lakewood woman with 4 kids wants custody #857123
The way she was dressed in the NY POST, and the fact she wants to go into modeling & acting, sounds like the issue isn’t just pants. And she strikes me as confused about her relationship to Judaism, like that “Unorthodox” girl who left Satmar.
Behold the latest media trend: “Frustrated Chassidic Women.” The POST seems to be capitalizing on it.
Apparently the drop-outs are different today than they were 100-200 years ago.
During the time of the Haskala, Jews left the ghettos and shtetls to become doctors, lawyers, artists, scientists, etc. While it was sad to see so many leave the religion, at least it was for something substantive, and the secularized Jews had an intellectuality about them.
Fast forward to 2012 C.E. Here is a woman who is basically a neb case — confused, stunted, amoral, and possibly crazy, like her father — although she now sees herself as a “with-it” type who hangs out in bars and nightclubs. Judging from the interview (I won’t read the book), she seems to have the profundity of a carp. (She also looked prettier in the frum photo; tznius aside, she was kind of homely in the party dress.)
She sadly reflects the OTD types I meet nowadays. They leave because they have nothing going for them, period, in their brains or in their lives. They don’t really fit in either world, Jewish or secular, since they lack the talent or the focus to make it.
Maybe Satmar isn’t for her, but it sure is a sad reflection on the level education she might have received at home and at school.
Probably MISHPACHA is too much reality for them. They can’t deal with either the outside world or certain internal issues.