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GAW,
Your bias is that you assume there was a non halachic ban.
“Charlie Hall, R’ Sherira gaon permitted sunglasses”
Only while vaccinating children, not all the time. And he also specified wht style lenses and frames to wear when doing so.
“Another non Halachic ban is expected.”
So it is our bias that is informing your understanding. Ok. That happens to everyone. But this also helps others to understand your biases.
“I am very interested in Dr. Hall’s opinions”
Especially when he doesn’t care about other’s opinions. That he wears sunglasses is not something that I can attest to but it is meaningless in the conversation as to whether people wear sunglasses somewhere else.
“He argues from the facts”
His comments here certainly seem to disprove that.
1) I take issue with the serious disrespect.
If that was the case you would have argued with most of the other posts, not that one.
2) Murderers? really?
People who refuse to vaccinate their children are rotzchim. The children should be forcefully vaccinated and definitely not let into school.
POSTED 1 DAY AGO EDIT DELETE
Murderers. And that doesn’t sound like it’s contradicting the Rabbeim?
3) Did you read the letter?
4) Not sure what aveirah you are alleging? Poking an anonymous poster? Who has used derogatory language against named people who also happen to be universally accepted gedolim?
So some here decided that because he doesn’t see people wearing sun glasses, that there is an issur.
I don’t quite follow the logic in his assumption.
Nor do I understand why it seems that others have now accepted that as fact.
ZD,
1) Have you seen/read the actual letter?
2) Please reference any of the other alleged “PSAKS” you refer to. I’d like to see your sources. You wringing PSAKS in large letters is not a source.
3) Do you know how many hundreds or thousands of instances that each of signatories to the letter assist with. Be it getting and or keeping children in school for any of the myriad reasons? So they have the absolute right to ask that there not be a chilul Hashem for the schools not to follow a psak.
And apparently, Joseph’s comment went over your head.
In real life I’m shocked that moderators on a site called Yeshiva World have no issue with the derogatory remarks made here about R Shmuel Kaminetsky, R Mattisyahu Salomon and R Chaim Kanievesky. And if you wonder which comments do so, look at the one I was paraphrasing.
A poster says the rabbeim are allowing murderers into the school but you are bothered that zd says the klal will blame disease on the internet.
If you want to defend halacha and Torah, there are ways to do it without being oiver other halachas. And you are encouraged to do so.
ZD,
To paraphrase you above, will you blame a child’s low intelligence on the vaccine or your heredity?
It’s not a matter of a psak to not vaccinate. It is a psak that a school cannot exclude a child from school because they were not vaccinated. A very different type of Psak.
ndg: Are you like this in real life as well? Just wondering…
“Insignificant”. Sorry about that. The terror of autocorrect and poor typing skills.
Joseph,
” I would hardly take a journalists guess or statement as having anything to do with reality”
Fixed that for you.
Your welcome.
Joseph,
I think the article mentions and dismisses that as significant.
“I don’t care what any contemporary rabbi says about it.”
We don’t care what you have to say about it.
Charlie,
The letter is based on halacha, which you are not qualified to comment on, nor are you qualified to comment on child raring.
The article quotes the usual silly commentators who are intentionally out of touch with reality such as Sam Heilmann, Michael Saloman and Chananya Weisman. They should tell you how much intentional fictional information is included.
And based on the comments to the articles about the Mormons, it seems that the sources for information about them are similarly intent on prevarication.
So it may be an interesting article but you must consider that it, for a very large part, is based on the information provided by people with the specific intent of painting those communities in a bad light by way of prevarication.
Typical of Charlie. He thinks Fiorina is bad, because she cut costs to keep a company afloat. On the opposite, he thinks Carter was a good president. A president that was a disaster for the American economy. A president who’s foreign policy left the US a laughingstock.
To Matan1, you wanted proof that democrats are “Machala sheayn bo refuah “? Just look at the democrats who post on this site, you cannot get stronger proof.
Typical Charlie, twisting what was said and occurred that it bears no resemblance at all to fact or reality.
You are a heck of a lot closer to Jews for J than I am to Neturei Karta.
Charlie,
Carter was a disaster as a president. His economic polo ivied, domestic and foreign policies were disastrous.
Only a rabid democrat could think there was anything positive about his presidency, and that’s only because bleeding heart liberals consider causing individuals pain a positive.
Is their safety not important? At night changing a tire on the side of the road?
There is a reason for the move over law.
Besides, having more than one person will get the tire changed quicker and the street cleared quicker.
How much ???? is there being on ones knees on the side of the road in dirt.
Do you have the same sentiment for hatzolah members? There are many who do and we know that those are depressed people.
ZD,
You’re wrong, again.
Those are not, not for profits, they are exempt organizations. And they are not the same as an entity that is exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the IRC.
It’s just an incorrect comment you are making.
There are different qualifications and different rules.
Which is all beside the point, because your comment has nothing to do withNything. Are you trying to suggest that the exempt organizations in Lakewood or Monsey are businesses?
They’re not. And the ones that do have a part that is not related to their exempt function pay real estate taxes. And I know that a number that are assessed PILOT so they pay anyway.
Edited
ZD,
But they are not 501(c)(3) organizations. As such they are not exempt from real estate taxes or sales tax.
And even tax exempt organizations can be subject to income tax. A Private foundation is subject to tax on investments income and all tax exempt organizations can be subject to UBIT.
ZD,
Making money does not it make a commercial enterprise.
There is a distinction between a commercial enterprise and a non profit even though a non profit still has to make money.
Further, the real estate tax exemption extends to when the non profits uses the property for its exempt purpose. So renting out student and faculty housing is not a commercial enterprise that would be taxed, it is part of the exempt function.
If they rented out to stores or regular commercial office space, that would subject the property, or the allocable portion of the property to tax.
In downtown Manhattan, Trinity Church is one of, if not the biggest commercial real estate owners. The properties are not exempted just because they are owned by an exempt entity.
What is clear from your comment is that you really don’t know the nuances related to not for profits if you would not know the difference between commercial enterprise and program related revenues.
And they rent it commercially?
You’re wrong. It may be student and employee housing, which is programmatic. And therefor exempted.
But I have seen hundreds of not for profits which do pay real estate taxes.
P.S. I read yesterday that over 8% of all Lakewood NJ properties are exempt from property tax, as compared to 1.5% in neighboring Toms River. Perhaps that is something that can be cracked down on in East Ramapo as well to raise revenue.
Lakewood does have two large colleges there BMG and Georgian Court. There is also the hospital. All exempt. Of course there are also all the schools, public and religious.
What does Toms River have.
But I’d have to believe those percentGes are actually low. I think it’s well below what is typical. More than those percentages are typically owned by government agencies which are all exempted.
In new York state if a non-profit owns real-estate, it can be exempt from property taxes. So a shul or a church for example is exempt from proprty taxes. But also if a shul or a church own a house or apartment building and rents it out, that building too can be exempt from property taxes
Uh, no. That’s not true.
I am sure it will show up in YouTube.
Someone sent me an embedded video of it. I think it was the first August meeting. Was some guy who refers to himself as a Reverend.
ZD,
As usual, you are coming from left field,. No one is trying to punish the students out of revenge, except the agitators who are bringing frivolous suits to personally harass the board members. This costing the district funds that could be used for education and now have to be directed to legal fees.
You should have heard the threats the agitators leveled at members. Specifically at the two black board members. Its all publicly posted. And it is also in the news how they stand outside the board members houses and shout and threaten them.
GAW,
This is not an issue of D&O (Generally the organization has D&O, not the individual members). The members were indemnified by the board. The board wanted to collect from a state agency that is supposed to cover law suits. Sort of a self insurance policy by the state. So it is a matter of the district recovering money.
Now the agitators (and that is their own term) are harassing the members.
Based on the following comment posted about Jimmy Carter being ill:
“1 .Comment from Charlie Hall
August 13, 2015 at 12:30 am
May he have a miraculous recovery and in gratitude for that miracle retract all the awful things he has said about Israel.”
We know who one Democrat would vote for. Quite possibly the worst president ever and a terrible Israel hater.
ZD,
But when the case is thrown out because of lack of basis and the judge does not allow it to proceed, it is frivolous.
Which is what happened in 7 out 8 claims.
And these cases are meant purely to harass. Which is obvious from the way the “activists” served the papers, and who they selected to serve the papers.
DaMoshe,
Interesting that you know about illegal things, yet none of the government investigations or controller’s audits turned up anything illegal by the school board. And if you ever read the controller’s reports, they always like to tout how they’ve caught illegalities.
GAW,
They will be limited to using substandard lawyers.
I just saw letters that a not for profit got from its lawyers and the rates were between 750-1000 an hour. Should these board members afford themselves substandard protection from harassers?
That would be penny wise and pound foolish.
GAW,
1) The board always used an aboveboard law firm. A firm that had experience in such matters. Unfortunately one of the “so-called activists” so irritated (and that is their method) one of the associates that he responded in an unprofessional method. And he did not do any further work for the school board.
2)More to the point, those were not the legal costs that nor the legal firms that the insurance did not pay for. The firms that were not covered by insurance were well respected large firms including Proskauer Rose.
3) Those firms were hired to represent the board in response to a slew of law suits initiated by these so called activists as a matter of harassment. Almost every single one of which was dismissed as frivolous.
4) The “activists” are doing the same again, initiating a suit that is meant solely to harass the board members and ultimately run up additional legal fees which will then be used as a complaint against them.
5) These activists have threatened the board members and harass them at their homes. They are truly despicable.
“When else do we kill someone due to ??????? ???????
Isn’t this one of the reasons for killing a ben sorer umorer. Even though no one is in immediate danger at this juncture.
ZD,
1) It’s not a hasgocha, it’s a farce.
2)What does (and Teaneck, NJ) mean? Why’d Teaneck get put into parentheses?
3) Have you ever seen who frequents restaurants in Teaneck? Why would say that there aren’t heimishe people there?
4) Only heimishe people have to be concerned with an organization that is trying to make a farce of Halacha and actively harms frum yidden?
5) You said earlier that if a frum person says something is kosher, it is. Now you say that Israel Meir Steinberg is not reliable? So now you are completely changing your tune and all you previous arguments are moot.
6) And you say if I don’t like it, I shouldn’t eat there, that is exactly what I said in my first comment about this, that I ???? will not eat there. You got all worked up about that.
Less,
How is that by extension? Did he say he approves of the inmate starving himself? His question is why do we force feed him? Why do we allow the inmate to manipulate others this way?
The real question is how you could even think there is a logical extension.
Less,
Silly comparison. The school boards are not deciding what can and cannot be taught. They are responsible for the budget. At issue is which Extra curricular and non mandated items will be paid by the school board.
ZD,
I don’t know what I am bothering, because it’s been said over so many times already, but the cases are not even remotely the same.
Where there are two hechsherim, neither is an evil organization.
However Uri Ltzedek, which has nothing to do with kashrut is evil. Huge, huge difference.
In addition, you made a comment before that the small hasgochas do not supervise all the underlying ingredients. Neither does the OU, in fact there are multitudes of hashgochas certifying the ingredients. Every hashgochas has lists of different ingredients which are more or less sensitive and they base their certifications on which items are more or less a sensitive and if they have certain hakpados. The fact that a second hashgochas relies on the OU for certain ingredients, does not mean that they do not have certain additional requirements for either processes or ingredients. And there are consumers who look for those hakpados. Just having an OU does not give them comfort regarding those hakpados and therefore they look for the additional hashgochas. The OU may not look for those hakposaas and therefore the extra hasgocha is necessary for those consumers.
However to reiterate again, the twizzllers are not all the same as U L which is a farce, as its headed by and its standards are set by a non Jew and a Kofer.
Moser alleges he has parents who are afraid to say things. But I doubt anything he says.
If he did not know what a cell is, it’s not the schools. Because any of the chasidim I know know that type of basic stuff.
But this fellow clearly has serious issues. And its easier to blame others than to take personal responsibility.
ZD,
What harm does this “hechsher” do? Dos you not read above?
1) It is an organization that actively harms frum Jews solely because they are frum. Way worse than a sticker on Twizzlers.
2) they portray themselves as being an orthodox agency yet Sean Yanklowitz is not Jewish and Ari Hart is an apikorus.
It is issue to give them any support. Much worse than eating even Mike and Ike’s with a sticker.
Charlie,
I think you can use Sarah Bernhardt’s hat to serve twizers to ZD.
GAW,
That’s so very kind of you. Not sure why you are so sure that your opinions are any more original than his are?
ZD,
You have some huge hangup about Twizzlers, for some reason.
Your comments do not become more sensible the more you keep saying them.
edited
“When there is a sticker on Twizzlers, what value does it add”
It adds value to those who want a specific hashgocha. They are willing to pay for it and would otherwise not eat twizzlers.
No one is making you eat these Twizzlers, you can go to CVS or ShopRite or any of a hundred different places to buy twizzlers without the extra hashgocha. For that matter, no one is making you eat Twizzlers at all and no one is making Hershy’s put the sticker on Twizzlers.
No one is making anyone do anything against their will.
edited
They want to use an existing school building on a large property that will have gates and landscaping around it.
When the residents complaining make comments that they are worried about their daughters because there are going to be as many as 96 18-22 year olds then you know it has nothing to do with either low density or reality.
Further to the point,
It is clearly mafia like to have to pay for allegedly halachic based (Which is most certainly is not)certification by a group that is headed by a non-jew and a kofer.
I wonder which part of Tzedek that might be?
Bunch of thieves.
ZD,
1) Is there always a frum Jew there?
2) A person does not have to eat from the OU if they do not want to. If someone wants to market the Twizzlers to those who do not eat OU hashgocha (which is their prerogative) then he can get the extra hashgacha and then add that to the price. This is purely a free market issue.
3)”Either the O-U is a good heshcher or its not” Is that a fact? The same would apply to any hashgocha then. You cannot tell everyone which hashgocha to use. ( I am not saying the OU is bad or that I don’t use it.)
4) Restaurants, even with multiple hashgochas only have multiple mashgichim if the need the personnel because of the size of the operation. Your comments belie your professed knowledge.
5) Uri Ltzedek’s certificate adds nothing, to the contrary it shows that the store supports an organization run by reshaim gemurim which does direct harm to Jews specifically because they are frum. So any payments to them would be purely coercive and does not provide any service.
6) They do nothing for a fair wage. Fair wages are defined by law. There are minimum wage laws which include overtime provisions. Just because someone wants to get paid more money does not mean it’s fair. And this is coercion by this hateful group. Let them shave the whales. But I want them to know that they have caused harm to this restaurant because I and my family will no longer eat there.
Sam,
1) They are not trustworthy for anything, they just coerce money out of people and provide no benefit.
2) They are reshaim gemurim who use this to further their rishus and to harm Jews.
It is a huge negative.
Sam,
Notice I did not name the place, I said I would not go there anymore.
As DY said, they should know. And this was not some new little place.
And there is absolutely nothing legitimate about auto Ltzedek.
Speaking of Sean Yanklowitz and Ari Hart,
I went out with my family to eat at a restaurant the other night. On the way out, I noticed that had a Tav Yosher, from the mamzerim (Well Yanklowitz is probably not a Jew, based on his own confession that his mother was not Jewish, so he may not be an actual mamzer) at Uri Ltzedek. ( I had checked on the hashgocho before going there). I will BL”n never go there again.
ZD,
There are so many things wrong with your post that you must have done so intentionally.
Books about kissing?
Tax breaks have nothing do with schooling, rather that as a an exempt organization they do not have to pay.
Same with parsonage allowance, it is clearly not for the portion the government would have anything to do with, because of the separation of religion and state.
And parsonage is not just for schools. And there is still SECA.
What money for pools or build (sic).
Where on this earth did you come up with this stuff?
Charlie,
“Speak for yourself. I have had a lot to say about those other issues.”
Oomis, in her original post said she was referring to those who say ” Let’s string that lion-murderer up and teach HIM a lesson, why don’t we!!!!! “
Your “outrage” at Oomis indicates that you are among the “Let’s string him up crowd” by your own admission.
Ponder that, why don’t you.