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ZD,
No one said it is avodah zara. However, just because it’s not avodah zara, it does not mean it is mutar to have a prayer service with them.
Ven de grubbe bubbe git a prubeh
I think Joseph’s question was how selectively it would seem the policy is implemented considering how often there are negatively assumptive comments posted about whole swaths of frum yidden.
“In a majority Yeshivish town (such as Lakewood, or Ramapo), the costs of an exponential birth rate should get paid by higher taxes on owners”
However, the additional funding would mostly be covered by the additional housing that is being taxed while not using the public school system. The incremental costs that are not for school costs are being covered by the increased tax base.
“The problem is that the Jews refuse to pay the taxes needed to support the services that are required by their exponential birth rate “
See response above. In addition a significant part of the costs are for ESL costs which are for students from families who pay neirther tuition or, for the most part real estate taxes either. As opposed to Jewish homeowners who are paying taxes and the number of new homes and expanded homes are bringing in ever increasing real estate taxes.
I know that real estate taxes in East Ramapo have increased much more than 7.5% over the last five years, and the overall school budget has increased by almost 30% over that time period (And that is much more that the entire transportation budget plus a goodly percentage of the entire special education budget, for public and non public schools). What has decreased is the state funding.
“Special ed services in public schools are significantly cheaper than in private schools.”
This is not factual (At least in East Ramapo) It is a claim that has been disproven time and again. The costs paid by the school board to the most well known of the “Jewish” special education schools in ER is actually significantly LESS that the costs of the teaching the children in the public schools. And the actual number of children placed in non public schools in East Ramapo is less than 100.
ZD,
Don’t know what you’re referring to, however there was a sad case recently which resulted in a suicide because of the Footsteps organization that resulted in pushing a woman a way fro her family who were trying to be her support and were paying for her psychiatric care. This organization convicted this woman to cut off her connections to her past and ultimately this prove fatal for the woman.
And of course the disgusting Forward and its writer are trying to ble this on the family. The only ones who actually cared for her and were actually trying to ho her.
Sick organization and sick Forverts.
Let me preface that I do not agree with the Neturei Karta who meet and or march with the various terrorist groups who are definitely ermines to try to destroy Israel and hate Jews in general.
However, I will note the the liberals seem to take issue with them as well. Which is highly hypocritical because their groups such as J Street or Btselem and The piece of trash The Forward are much more detrimental. They actively support and send money to the terrorists or rile up followings against Israel.
The damage they do and Soros is among them as well has directly led to the death of Jews and other Israelis. None of which has happened from the actions of NK.
I’ve read the following on a web site. (I guess you can check Facebook if you have an account, I don’t)
“Misha and Esther Rapaport, the mother and father of 4, who were seriously injured when they were struck by a car on Route 17M shortly before midnight Sunday.
Please daven for Moshe ben Miriam Rus and
Esther Mindel bas Gittel”
K,
Actually you are wrong. The information that I had comes from the information on the AG website. It’s not the other charlatan Ari Weiss.
Further, they have never had an audit, which is hypocritical. Nor do they report paying someone as internal accountant. There are payments for an outside accountant. And it is not only an Auditir that must be independent. There is no question that their ethics are severely lacking.
Your problem is that you do not know how to read the details that are there.
But neither does the writer for the Firwards who bills himself as an expert on 990s. Anyone who is even slightly knowledgeable sees from his comments that he is grossly incompetent. But for that paper, it is a requirement to be grossly incompetent.
Avi K.,
If that’s true, it would a further indication of their hypocrisy, because Andrew Weiss is listed as a Board member and as having loaned money to the organization. As such he would not be independent under state law and professional standards, yet according to you, they used him for the review of their financials. This is a gross violation of requirements under state law and professional standards. One of the biggest violations and specifically these Codie’s as part of professional ethics.
I believe the right thing for you to do would be to report them to the NYS AG and NYS SED. (because that is what they do with just rumors). You should also call a press conference with a bunch of clergy and put articles in the NYT and the “Forverts”.
What would be different from what they do is presumably your actions would be based on fact.
But you are wrong because a 990 does not give the home address of board members.
“For whatever it’s worth, several fellow YCT students were outraged at the dumb statements of a YCT student this week and felt he went beyond the pale of Orthodoxy”
Could you provide clarification or a term to search so I can understand your comment better?
TY
ZD,
“Getting a judge of the New York Supreme court or a Family court judge to allow a 14 or 15 year old to marry is next to impossible “
Which is not what you said earlier. You should have said that you were wrong, but it is very difficult. Which was not the issue anyway.
ZD,
you said “You cannot get married in NY at 14. 16 is the youngest” Wrong. And it is easily verifiable by a 2 second search on Google.
” its not against the law to give your 10 year old son wine ” I am sure that if this corrupt justice system wanted to get someone, they would use this to put someone into Jail and possibly prison as well.
Andrew Weiss is how Avi Weiss calls himself in the legal documents of his extortion agency ironically called Uri Ltzedek.
Apparently that is his “Legal” name.
Perhaps this means that they have severed their last remaining thread of attachment to Orthodoxy and will finally drop the word Orthodox from their movement’s name. Maybe they will just call themselves empty Jewery.
It will make things easier, since their marriages will not be considered marriages and will thus lessen the number of mamzerim he’s been creating and the geirus will clearly be seen to be the sham it is.
Granted. But they mention those agencies.
Of note is that Andrew Weiss says that he let his membership lapse. Similar to his fealty to Torah and its Mesorah.
I forwarded to the cRc, Ok and OU who they list as certifiers.
ZD,
“To say there arent jews like this is just a lie, There are even frum or formerly frum jews like this. Some of the people who go OTD, go OTD for this reason”
T613T never said, nor implied that there are not Jews like that. Nothing he or she said is a lie at all.
In fact, that people go of the derech because they want to indulge these ta’avos is in and of itself proof that the Jewish Moral code rejects this and that we have to separate ourselves from accepting such behaviors as the norm and as moral.
Your rant is completely misdirected.
Perhaps you like to feel your self a man of the world and feel that this not moral failing of the US, therefore you had to make your comment, but anyone with a bit of decency (as defined by the Torah) and sense understands clearly what T613T was saying.
Avi K.,
“it should be further clarified that gentile women in the news are not over on anything.”
1) You have pretty big shoulders to say that they are not being over on ANYTHING.
2) Even if that were the case, What about 2 Men and what about Jewish women. Everyone here knows that the reform, conservative and even the OO were big promoters of this (I have seen the comments of the honchos of the OO movement, this is not a matter of debate).
3) The tragedy of the Decision was not about anyone being over, the same people who are now going to be over on mishkav zachor were doing so before the Court’s decision The issue is that the with this decision the millennial old definition of marriage and the family unit has been changed. That is huge, regardless if it is two gentile women or unfortunately two Jewish men.
4) This redefinition of what is marriage, what is a family unit and what is the societal norm has a profound negative impact on the morals of society.
Before long, and I am sure it is already on the agenda, any loopholes to the law that exist for religion will be done away with and this “right” will be used to harm people and groups that practice traditional religion.
The US was founded, and the constitution was written, to protect people’s right to practice their religion. These agitators have come along and created a new right which they now use to replace what was a basic right guaranteed by the constitution.
Separation of Church and state does not mean one cannot practice religion, it means that he government cannot interfere in how someone practices religion. It is meant as a protection of that right of individuals. I guarantee that this new law will be used to usurp the rights of people practicing religion and will result in many breaches in the real separation of church and state.
Charlie,
The ones that did not vote for him because he was a polytheist, nor were the reasons they voted for based on that.
Contrast that to why you and the other radicals voted for Mr Obama. You are really the one who should be bowing your head in shame.
According to Wikipedia she was a notorious cross dresser and that’s why she wore such a hat. Not because it was feminine.
That’s also why the feminists wore it, because it’s not feminine.
Further, it completely change after prince whomever of England starting wearing it. When men who wanted to look like men were the only ones wearing it.
So it was never really begged isha, and it totally changed from even being a shemetz of begged isha long before it became popular by yidden.
So it is disingenuous to call it begged isha besides being silly.
“Myself, a Chabad, I know more stores of the Steipler Gaon’s life and halachic responsa of Rabbi Feinstein than ashkanazis. I remember their astonishment. Quite funny, actually. “
Very funny. Since when is Chabad not Ashkenazi?
“Probably less than a century. Prior to then it was indeed Beged Ishah and in fact it was a symbol of decadent lifestyles.”
It has only been called a mesorah by GAW.
Your silly notion about begged isha has already been completely disproven before.
I think there al lot bigger questions about a lot that you do then someone wearing a fedora.
1) I make no assumptions that you go to any shul at all.
2) I guess we can let the others here determine if you changed your whole thesis here.
3) You were the first one to bring up a Fedorah at all in this thread. No one mentioned a mesorah for a Fedora except perhaps you. You stared with Charlie’s silly and mistaken comment about begged isha.
4) Nowhere in my first comment did I mention what type of hat I think it’d respectful to wear. It could be a biber hut or a chulent tup or another up hat. I never referred to what type of hat to wear to shul. My sole diyuk was relating to the first section where “the hat” was referring back to your comment. But I made no mention of what type of hat to wear.
5) You were pretty specific on the pilleus corunutus. To the exclusion of anything other than a skullcap.
6) I did not say whether you do or don’t wear a Fedora (even though it would be quite hypocritical considering the statement you made), but you do admit to my observation that you have an issue with a fedora. You say why, but that is your extrapolation. Made solely by you.
“Why is a car necessary if public transportation is available? “
Assuming they are travelling together and they would like to converse, then a car is much more practical.
Additionally, public transportation may be available, but that does not mean it is convenient, for either party, and this is just more respectful.
GAW,
It said “the” hat, and a fedora is the hat that the comments were about. And a fedora is exactly what Charlie always makes his silly comment about. And it is silly, because it was worn by Bernahrdt, who was a notorious cross-dresser and this is what she wore when cross dressing. It was meant as a men’s hat, not a woman’s. And it is clear that it is not begged isha, because men were wearing them and not women (Unless they are cross dressing)long before the fedora became the most popular hat style by bnei yeshivos.
Now that we addressed your and Charlie’s ridiculous claims about begged isha, let’s ask why you are ok with the pilleus cornutus, which Jews were often made to wear in public so that they would be identified as Jews. Like the yellow stars the Nazis made Jews wear.
If you were honest, you would own up and say what your real issue is with a Fedora. We all know that it has nothing to do with begged isha.
Last, it is very nice of you to deny me stating my feelings in a comment section. Yet you have the temerity to call MY comment gratuitous?
Hakohen,
About the hat being ??? ???, GAW is just repeating Charlie Hall’s oft mentioned nonsense.
However, I will admit that there are synagogues where it seems that it is only the women who wear hats. Perhaps that is why he is making such a mistake.
I think it is respectful for a man going to shul to wear a hat.
To quote the Satmar Rebbe ZL. ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ? ????????. That obviates the issue.
It would seem common sense not to post pictures on line that had nontzniyus stuff in the background. Just like you wouldn’t post something that was otherwise stomach churning.
IRC section 117. Qualified Tuition Reduction.
Lesschumras is incorrect.
ZD,
It seems you should consider your own advice.
Syag,
Not sure what you mean. However, on this thread it makes a difference.
Perhaps in this case, ???? ?? ??? , is appropriate.
I have an iPhone. The iPhones have a SIM card in a slot on the side. I was told that all iPhones are unlocked. At least on Verizon.
More than one travel cell type service told me that and instead of renting a separate phone for my trip, I just rented a SIM card.
Worked very well. Even got an US number as well. I forwarded my regular US number to that number and people from the U.S. We’re able to just dip my regular number to reach me.
Have you called one of the services? I went Eretz Yisroel for vacation and I was able to just swap in a different SIM card for my Israel trip. And changed it back when I returned. My phone is on Verizon.
ZD,
But your comment presupposes that someone who speaks Yiddish is less likely to be certified. And the fact is that there are many hundreds with all the certification and qualifications. Including not just masters in special Ed but with additional specialty certifications and PhDs as well. And I am not referring to deconstructionist rabbis. I am talking chasidish men and women. With all the levush.
Just because some speaks English or Spanish does not make the person certified or qualified to be a teacher.
ZD,
You seem to operate under the misconception that just because someone speaks Yiddish and it may even be their mother tongue that they are not qualified to be teachers and do not have the certifications.
Anyone in the field can tell you that you are greatly mistaken.
BTW, their is great demand that there should be Spanish translators at the board meetings in ERSCD. there is no such demand for Yiddish translators. And all the meetings are held in English. So is it correct that Spanish should get priority over Yoddish? There are more Yiddish speaking students in the district than Spanish. By a ratio of 2 to one at least.
ZD,
Why are you so hung up on Pashtun?
There is a far cry between davenng in a class and not being concerns with religion. Certainly there are times where the situation may require services that are not in a Jewish background, but parents are not doing it as a preference or a disregard for religion.
And children with spectrum disorders are very different than children who have no cognition or are severely developmentally disabled.
It is incorrect to aay the children are unaware.
ZD,
“The kids in this class religion doesnt really matter as they are lower functioning”
That is a dad’s perspective? That religion really doesn’t matter because your child is lower functioning?
And yet there are many agencies with residential programs that were started by parents becUse they were concerned about the religious perspective even if their child was lower or almost completely non functioning. I know of several such agencies.
“Student Loan crisis is from people who insist on dorming to out of state schools that cost $40-$50K a year and the jobs they get nowhere pay what they will get in a job
SUNY or CUNY in state tution is about $6000 a year”
I thought you said that ERCSD has to get the kids into Ivy League schools.
SYAG,
The cost of providing the services for Special Ed is easily obtainable from the dust rictus financial statements and the financials differentiate between payments to other schools/ School districts and the cost of providing special education in their own schools.
The costs comparison I was referring to is the difference between the costs of providing the services internally, not contracted out to the cost in the private school.
GAW,
“Nisht – when you said that it is cheaper (from the situations you spoke of), do you mean that the amount of tuition alocated by their district is less then we would actually need for their education, or do you mean that the amount they themselves spend per kid when servicing them is less?”
The school board pays less to the private school than it costs to provide the same services in the public school. It also costs the private school less for the same services, they don’t have all the union costs which would be crippling.
The private school is not making money on this since their reimbursement is based on the CFR filed with SED. In addition the private school provides yeshiva classes as well, which are not paid by the ERCSD. Unfortunately for the school, the parents of the overwhelming majority parents do not have anywhere near the resources to pay for the costs of the Yeshiva part of the education. Which is not covered at all by the district. The school still provides for these children and has to beg for funds to remain a viable institution. No one is making money lay off these schools. But there are many people who lose sleep and are under constant stress to make sure that the school remains open for the children. Outing their personal health and resources at risk.
“e sort of financial planning so not everyone has to go to a community college, the City and State universities are fairly inexepensive and good”
I guess you have not been reading about student loan crisis.
ZD,
“Ramapo High School has a 63% graduation rate in 2014
Edward R Murrow A high School in Flatbush Brooklyn graduation rate is 81% (I dont know the name of the High School in Williamsburg or Boro Park, but Ive passed Murrow many times so I know that one and its in a jewish park of Brooklyn)”
What is your point? Did you consider the demographics of the two schools? In ER well over 90% of the student body is Hispanic and Black who were not born in the U.S. There is a huge percentage who are ESL track. There is even a large number who have just arrived in the U.S. At 16+ years of age who show up to just a few classes and then don’t finish because they don’t know English and intend on finding jobs right away. The chancellor pointed this out, but the activists got upset because it wasn’t politically correct even though it was factual.
That is really what he the greatest impact on graduation rates along with parent apathy.
ZD,
You commented “The guy whose kids AP calculus class was cancelled , Their band was cancelled and the basketball team was cancelled and therefore has no extra curricular activity and will likely have great difficulty getting into an Ivy League school”
When did getting into an Ivy league school become part of the mandated services to be provided?
I have to pay the county college for my children’s AP courses, why can’t they do just the same? They do not pay regular tuition and there area even tutoring programs. There should be some investment by the parents as well.
Besides, that is really not the reason why these kids will no
ZD,
“And you have to go to an a beaurocrat who thinks religous schools are nonsense and when they refuse you have to convince a arbritor that private schools are better than public schools and again many of them do not belive in relgious schools and certainly do not believe in segregated schools (in the relgious sense)”
The special education that is provided in separate schools for the most part are for children with severe disabilities. Including leaning, physical and emotional disabilities. I have dealt with a good number of excellent special education schools/programs run by orthodox Jews. A number run by chasidim. Not one of them was a segregated school. They all services both boys and girls. I have never seen a segregated program. The school in KJ service both Genders, I know several schools in Boro Park and Williamsburg that are run by Chasidim with beards and peyos and their schools have both boys and girls in the classes.
Your assumption that the reason why Jewish Parents want other options than the public schools for their children is because they want gender segregation is a specious assumption without any basis in fact or reality.
GAW,
“I’m trying to figure out what exactly a school district is mandated to supply/pay for private schools”
Just to clarify, the School District do not supply or pay for the schools. The provide these services to all students in a district.
Busing is not a service to the school, it is providing a way for students to get to school.
Special education is provided to students who need it. There are times when the provider most suited to service a specific child is not a public school. There are hundreds of private special education providers in NYC that are not part of the public school system who are paid by NYC Board of Education. Much of them for services that NYC BoE prefers to contract out. These are not costs of the private schools (the schools’ costs) that are paid for by the school board.
I know for a fact that when children are placed in a Jewish special education school in East Ramapo, the amount paid for the students does not pay for any religious studies. The cost for the religious studies part is carved from what is billed. (And the cost is less than the public schools internal cost for providing the services). The religious education program is paid for by the parents and fundraising.
In short, these are mandated services to CHILDREN in the district, regardless of which schools they chose to attend.
Syag,
Thanks for demonstrating Joseph’s point.
ZD,
You direct your comment to the Monitor, if one is ultimately appointed. He is the one who will have no accountability and can do as pleases.
I am sure he will find your cliche enlightening.
“Tchum Shabbos wasnt an issue at Belmont. There are houses on the other side of the Cross Island certainly less than a mile from the track and there are houses directly to the South of Belmont an Im sure to the east as well (I drive on the Cross Island alot so I am familar with that area as seen from the Cross Island)”
So a mile is the shiur for t’chum? This is radically new interpretation of halacha. 70 Amos is the determining measure, not a mile.
ZD,
“People who live in East Ramapo and send their kids to public school have an equal right to demand what they think they deserve. Just like the charedim want seperate buses, they want Art and Music.”
As clearly explained above, and understood by other posters here, the issue is not separate busing. It is busing period. And it is an issue as to what is mandated, that means required by law, versus what is not mandated.
“Its funny how someone demands AP Calculus is an “activist” and someone who demands Busing to yeshiva is no” (sic)
The position of the activists, as clearly demonstrated is not AP calculus for the students. Because they have no children in the schools and do not even live in East Ramapo. Their activism is purely to deny services to the orthodox children. Read their rhetoric. And no one is running about demanding busing, it is provided because it is mandated by law. Remember, dina dimalchusa. Which is hardly funny.
“BTW NYC does NOT provide busing for most students in the city so its not mandatory.”
Fantastic argument, however it is completely wrong. The law is that busing is mandated for all students in NYS except for large cities, which I believe means over 100,000 students, which then define their own busing eligibility. (From what I’ve been told by those who deal with these items, it only applies to NYC and Buffalo) Not one of the activists is denying that the busing is mandated, they want to change that and take away these services.
“Most Public schools have extra curricular activies its not an “extra item” “(sic)
BY definition, it is not part of the regular required curriculum. They may be fantastic and everyone would want to provide the program, but if there is no money, the first to go are the non mandated items. NYS Dept. of Education itself told ERCSD to cut extra curricular programs because of budget shortfalls. Even you say “Most” if it is a requirement, why wouldn’t all have the programs?