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As long as the phone is not ringing or disturbing to anyone in anyway, how is that any different from using a siddur? Is there any way to disable the phone aspect, while it is being used as a siddur? If not, then maybe it COULD be a problem.
Rabbi AL – – OY.
As to the rest, I have come to the conclusion that while we cannot always control how people act to us, we absolutely control how we respond. Discretion IS the better part of valor, most of the time.
Thank you, Aurora. Very kind of you to say so. How are things going with you?
Oomis, it’s hard to give an eitzah since I don’t know the specifics, but is there mutual acquaintance, such as a rov, who can try to make sholom? “
Not really. It makes me sad because I have been a very good friend, but she hurt me irreparably, by hurting someone very close to me. She is playing the victim, though, as though she is the injured party.
Why did I bring this up? Because from time to time I see people in the CR, posting things that might be terribly hurtful to another poster. Perhaps they think it is funny, perhaps they think the person deserves some mussar, perhaps they mean nothing at all by it. Onaas devarim, and especially when done on a public site, is as bad as embarrassing someone face to face in public. If I have learned anything from my recent upsetting experience, it is that we really DO have to think twice before we hit the “Send” button.
A young man actually got into trouble because of his tefillin, a number of years ago.
Being BT, I also can’t see the reason, why BT would like to marry FFB. Do they really want to have a spouse and in-laws, who hate them?”
That’s a rather harsh statement. I married a BT and am FFB. My father Z”L was a great Talmid Chochom and a Kohein, and he and my mother adored my husband, as do all my siblings. Likewise, my husband’s parents loved me. I do not believe that all BT can necessarily successfully be nis-shadchim with FFBs, but to make a blanket statement that the spouse (????) and in-laws might HATE them? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Any in-law might love or hate their child’s spouse. There are so many factors in play.
As a general observation, I tend to believe that most BT might feel more comfortable with other BT, but that does not mean they should not seek a shidduch with a FFB spouse. It might be a little more difficult for them to FIND that FFB shidduch, as people tend to gravitate towards their religious comfort zone.
I met my husband on my own while at work, and not in a shidduch. Had he been suggested to me by someone, I would have probably not initially thought it a shayach shidduch. He had only been frum for a few years, was not in any type of learning program at that time (for real beginners). But Hashem was my shadchan, and sent the kindest and most ehrliche man I have ever known, into my office on the day we met, and what he lacks in learning (though he loves any and all Divrei Torah), he more than makes up for in being the best role model in the world for our children, and an incomparable baal chessed.
Goq, for future, please don’t hang up on someone calling your boss or someone in the office. He could be his father, his best friend, his ticket agent, doctor (in which case he would NOT want to say who he was in detail) whatever. You had every right of course, to put him on hold and ask ________ if he or she wanted to speak with someone named Smith who would not ID himself further. Then, the onus goes on your boss, if he says he will not accept the call without further information, which you politely relay to the caller. The ball would then have been in his court.
To answer you Mazel77, I wear long, comfortable (not tight) skirts the almost come to my ankles and sleeves that are no shorter than 3/4 length. If you saw me, you would describe me as Tzniusdig in my manner of dress. To be honest, many single Yeshivish girls whom I have observed in certain neighborhoods, DO look frumpy. They are not well-groomed in many respects, and that is very sad, if they are of a shidduch parsha age, because they are not presenting themselves in a particularly attractive way. If I were a Yeshivah bochur being set up with that girl, I would find it hard to be interested in getting to knwo her better. Girls do not all have to be beautiful, thin, and blonde in order to have a good boy want to marry them. But they do have to have a modicum of style and good taste, wear clothing that fits and flatters as well as being tzniusdig. There is no either or here.
“Also, why does everyone think tichels and snoods equal ugliness? I have a great collection of tichels and snoods, and my friends always compliment me on them, and I feel good about how I dress”
And that is a very compelling reason for you NOT to wear them, according to the opinion of some of the poskim (not my own feeling, however) – as apparently they are attractive headgear. See, that’s the inyan – it really is not the good looks or lack thereof, I think. In my opinion, it’s how a woman acts when thus attired. A woman who is tzniusdig in her personal actions, will give off that vibe. A woman who is inappropriately flirtatious could be wearing a shmatta on her head, and she will likewise give off a specific vibe. The type of man who reacts inappropriately, will do so because HE has the problem. If he behaves or speaks in an unbecoming way around a married woman, then HE, not she, is at fault, unless she is likewise acting in such a manner. Blaming frum women for looking attractive in a pretty sheitel (when there are so many other ways that she could look equally pretty), is like l’havdil blaming a rape victim who must have been “asking for it,” when clearly it is the violence of the perpetrator and not the looks of the woman, that drives him to commit this aveira. Let the Rabbonim instruct men on their own behavioral shortcomings, instead of unfairly always placing the burden on frum sheitel-wearing women, most of whom ARE tzniusdig, from what I have observed in my own non-Lakewood, non-Monsey and non-Brooklyn community.
“I recently heard for myself in my shul a guy called to the torah – Tzvi Moshe, ESQIRE ben DR. whatever his father’s name was, I can’t remember…”
Was this by any chance on Simchas Torah (and before or after Kiddush)?
Regarding what we prefer to be addressed as – “Your Majesty” works for me…
SJSinNY has really given voice to my own feelings in this matter. If a Rav who was my poseik issued a takana such as that, and we were required to wear ugly head coverings, I would be concerned that THIS would prove to be untzniusdig, because it would call SO much more attention to the women thusly attired, probably cause a tremendous chilul Ha-Shem as the non-religious Jews around us, not to mention non-Jews talked about how Judaism is a religion that uglifies its women. There is a difference between being modest in dress and demeanor, and being frumpy and dowdy. Ha-Shem created a world of beauty to be appreciated. If someone chooses to deify that beauty and worship trees, do we cover up the trees?
As to the fashion issue – I would point out that the chassidic garb of today that we hold to be so proper, is very much the clothing of the non-Jews of Europe in years past. If it was proper to copy their clothing and adopt it then, as long as a particular fashion statement is not revealing of erva (such as a woman’s bosom) or TOO tight, then it behooves people to stop being so judgmental of women who want to look stylish. Should girls go out on dates looking dowdy also? No, we WANT them to be attractive, and we want them to ATTRACT their husbands, because otherwise there will be no continuity of the Jewish nation. when a woman is continuously told she should not look attractive in public, what makes you think she has any experience in making herself look attractive in private, either? And furthermore, considering the HUGE numbers of women who are in the workforce SUPPORTING THEIR HUSBANDS, how successful do you think they would be if they dressed in a non-professional and unpresentable manner? For that matter, how successful are MEN who dress in an unpresentable manner?
It would only be gneivas daas if they marked it as 64 oz. but only filled it with 59 oz.
You say they clearly state the oz. on the label. I think it is lousy merchandising, but they haven’t done anything dishonest. Caveat emptor – let the buyer beware. If you want to make a difference, STOP buying the product. You will see how fast they will change.
“A joke originating from Bnei Brak:
The title “Gaon” is used nowadays primarily to differentiate between a man and a woman 🙂 “
Yes, but what are they calling the man?????
“Precisely. The reason many poskim do not allow ANY sheitels is precisely because it can be mistaken for the wearers regular hair.”
So what???? What if the wearer’s REAL hair is really ugly? Does it make that hair any less assur to be viewed by a man other than her husband? No. It has nothing to do with the beauty or lack thereof, it would seem to me, but rather the fact that the hair acquires a new status of kedusha upon marriage. To explain my point in a more readily understandable venue, when askewd why we don’t eat bacon, we cannot say it is because bacon is horrible, tastes bad, is unhealthy, etc. Nope – it is delicious (so tells me my baal teshuva husband), but it not mutar for a Jew to eat – period! So we don’t eat it. A woman’s natural hair does not have to be ugly in order for us to have a chiyuv to cover it. Nor do we have to look ugly in the covering of it. It is just not mutar to show it to any man but the person for whose eyes it is intended.
Joseph, thank you for the source, but that was not my question. I did not so much question whether or not married women should cover their hair according to the TORAH, but rather where there is any source in the TORAH that the hair must be covered in an unattractive way i.e., with an ugly wig. I question what the intent of the halacha might possibly be. Did Ha-Shem want women to make themselves unattractive by covering themselves in unflattering hair coverings (and then why not ugly clothing, too?), or is it simply that the natural growing hair of the married woman takes on a halachic status that it must be kept private for her husband’s eyes alone? In that case, one cannot ipso facto infer from that statement that the intent is to make her ugly to other men, but simply rather that she is to keep her natural erva only for her husband. There is a huge difference between saying she must look unattractive to others, or saying that her natural hair must be for her husband alone to see, but she can still cover that natural hair with other (nice) hair, because it is NOT her own hair.
For all those who comment on the wrongness of wearing real-looking sheitels- PLEASE, PLEASE tell me exactly where in the Gemarah it states that a head coverong has to look phony or ugly? If you believe this to be so and there is no halachic source that states the fact, then you are assuming that the reason for covering the hair is in order to make a woman look unattractive (which would make her look unattractive to her husband too, no doubt). Ha-Shem did not even state in the Torah shebichsav that a married woman must cover her hair. It was inferred from the Isha Sotah. I personally cover my hair, but I have a problem with the inference issue, because if a married woman’s hair is erva, then why is it not untzniusdig for the Kohein to unwrap it? Is he likewise allowed to unwrap the rest of clothing (erva is erva)? Is the justification for this because she committed adultery? What if she was totally INNOCENT – then he has seen her (hair) erva and she didn’t even deserve that embarrassment.
The whole covering the hair inyan has always bothered me because I believe too many people make assumptions about the halacha. Perhaps a woman should never wear anything but rags, lest she appear attractive to others. That also covers her erva. Somehow, I do not accept that women wore ugly wigs in ancient times, if in fact they wore wigs at all. Maybe it is assur to wear a pretty hat, scarf, or other attractive headcovering.
If the specific halacha is to cover the hair because the woman’s own hair growing from her head is erva, then that has nothing to do with the TYPE of covering. If however the halacha is to cover the hair because Ha-Shem wants her to look less attractive, then the point made about the wigs would hold validity. I would sincerely love to know how Rav Elyashiv was able to see what type wigs Jewish women wore in ancient time, as he seems so certain of the styles.
Lakewoodwife, that sounds yummy. I have done the same with apple pie filling, a bit of cinnamon, and sometimes raisins and/or chopped walnuts.
I had heard, like Alex, that the Chofetz Chayim recently appeared in a dream to a now elderly former talmid of his, telling him that Moshiach would come before Hoshana Rabba this year. This same talmid when a very young man was told by the CC shortly before his death that Moshiach would come in the lifetime of this young man. Anything can happen, but obviously the Hoshana Rabba issue is a moot point. I certainly feel as though we are headed towards Chevlai Moshiach and Milchemes Gog U’Magog. And the thought is a little scary, I have to admit. Maybe awesome, is a better word.July 25, 2008 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm in reply to: Shiduchim, Is giving perfect information always the best solution?? #620276
Your story is much appreciated.But I fail to see how its related to mine.
The point I wanted to make was that PERFECT is not always PERFECT.
You’re right, but I also wanted to point out that some people will never think perfect is perfect enough, and will manage to find flaws where none seem to exist. From everything I was telling the woman, this girl was a wonderful shidduch for her son. But she didn’t care about ANYTHING I wasted my breath saying, because the height was an issue before she even called me. People have to understand that only Ha-Shem is perfect. The rest of us just do the best we can to be good people and Shomrei Torah u’Mitzvos, hopefully.July 24, 2008 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm in reply to: Shiduchim, Is giving perfect information always the best solution?? #620264
I’ll go one better: My former landlords had given my name as a reference (how I HATE that word – this is a shidduch, not a job application) for their daughter, to the prospective boy’s family. I received a phone call from the mother of the boy and proceeded to tell her what a lovely, beautiful young woman she is, with impeccable middos. All in all, a very bacheint prospect. The mother then began questioning me about the parents – fine, wonderful people. What did the father do, what did the mother do. By the time she got to what do the sister-in-law do, I was a little perturbed. What business is it of hers, and how on earth would I know that? She wanted to know if the family is “calm,” which they truly are, but did she think I would tell her otherwise (and I had just gotten finished telling her what lovely balabatish people they are, anyway).
Here’s the kicker (and I kind of hope the woman is reading this, because she needs to see in print how she sounded to me): After spending almost half an hour (due to her numerous questions) telling this woman what a wonderful shidduch this girl would be for ANYONE’s son, much less her own, she says the following. ” Well all that is well and good, but I hear the girl is very short (true, she is barely 5′), and I don’t want short grandchildren, so I’m not going to say yes!” I was blown away. You waste my time to ask about someone, when all along you have no intention of a follow-through??????? I quietly informed the woman that the height of a child is in the Aibishter’s hands,two tall people with recessive short genes can potentially produce ALL short children, and if that was what she was most concerned about (and not the wonderful middos, beautiful and charming person inside and out that the girl is), then she should probably look elsewhere, because the girl was not getting any taller any time soon. What I really wanted to say was that the girl deserved a much more seicheldig and less shallow mother-in-law than that. But I didn’t. I just wished her hatzlacha in finding the right one for her son.
The problem with giving mussar has always been (at least in my own mind) the fact that some of that mussar is built on chumrah and not on the actual halacha. I would not want to get mussar on tznius vis a vis my hair covering (I cover it with a sheital, a hat, a snood, or the like), from someone who believes that it is untzniusdig to wear ONLY a sheital without a small hat (to make it obvious that the sheital is false hair), or that my non-seamed stockings are immodest. What you think is immodest may not be congruent to what another frum yid holds as immodest, and the other person’s hashkafa may be halachically sound. I doubt that our Emahos grappled with the legwear problem, as the fashion of their times in the desert most likely did not include the wearing of stockings at all. If someone has a makor that implies otherwise, I sincerely would like to know of it (I am not being facetious), as this is a question I have long had regarding proper dress in the summertime.