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Can someone bring a source for this idea that if a women dresses in modest, he suffers in gehenom for all those who looked at her? What if he dresses tznius are men still look at her does she also suffer for not dressing in a way that no one would look at her – like the Arabs, or is she punished for leaving her house – כל כבודה בת מלך פנימה, or does the fact that she’s working to support her husband and children learning justify her being in the street?
Men have bechira chafshin to look at women. The alter rebbe says in Tanya perek 30 or 31, even if someone needs to work on the street he is a rasha if he doesn’t control where he looks, reb Moshe feinsten has a tshuva that says if someone can’t control himself looking at women, he should stay home. So this idea that the women are machsil the men – it’s belongs. As if chabad is the only community with not tznius women, Williamsburg are borough park and lakewood are all full of non Jews, do you not go to the airport? and if you all really so careful and your only issue is crown heights so Don’t come to crown heights if you can’t control yourself. Anyway you should stay away from “kofrim”
back to learning chassidus, someone claimed before the chozon ish learned Kabalah, I guess everyone agrees we should learn Kabalah.Yankel berel. So you come up with an answer! Or you think you know better than arizal and alter rebbe? Btw your statement that the rambam paskens like one shita and after that the other is kfira, is 100% wrong. Learn the sugya!
According to your logic: the mitzvah of Talmud Torah changed, well tznius also did. Cuz the gra said it’s so important, so unless you find me an earlier source for that, he’s “changing” a mitzvah.I started posting because I thought some people were just misinformed about some ideas. It didn’t take too long to realize that they are not open to hear the truth, and continue to accuse others of things that never happened and twist their words the way they want in order to justify their claims against them.
But I continued posting cuz I enjoy it. And so maybe others who see the thread with an open mind will see whose arguments are logical and who’s are not.Yankel berel. Open up a Tanya and read!
Need more mekoros, it’s a clear rambam inhilchos mamrim that sons of apikorsim these halachos don’t apply too. Also the chafetz chayim writes about this in אהבת חסד that it doesn’t apply to today’s apikorsim.
I’m getting mixed up with who wrote what but I find it really shocking that you accuse the arizal and the Baal hatanya of kefira. I guess now I realize who I’m dealing with, first I just thought you read some misquoted things in yated or bergers book, now I see you guys are real mosnagdim don’t accept the Baal hatanya of ari zal!
Arsos pshat in Tanya is simply crooked
How can the Gemara have a machlokes if מצוות בטילות the rambam clearly writes that mitzvos last FOREVERSaying talmud torah kineged kulam dosent apply anymore is not changing any mitzvah, only talking about its level of importance. So its not a contradiction to nitzchiyus hatorah.
2) The ikar of Nitzchiyus hatorah applies even after moshiach comes and also techiyas hamasim. See nidah daf 61, rishnim there. (reb elchonon) and at length kuntres הלכות של תורה שבעל פה שאינן בטלין לעולם, and שיחת יום ב’ דחג השבועות תנש”א – בענין תורה חדשה מאיתי תצאI was just saying that it was mentioned that the gaon says that tznius is as important for women as torah is for men. Arizal argues that torah is not the main avoda. Chassidim who follow the arizal 1) dont follow the vilna gaon 2) dont hold the same about limud howrah as the people who follow the gaon as seen in tanya, and all over sifrai chassidus, the stress on davening, tzedaka, etc (like igeres 9) so you need another proof for chassidim about the “ikar” of tznius. The fact that satmer is very machmir more than litvaks very nice, it dosent make it the most important thing in yiddishkiet just like the fact they wear shtraimels dosent either, or the fact they dont vote or make sure to say tachnun on 5 iyar even if there is a bris.
דבר ברור ומפורש בתורה שהיא מצוה עומדת לעולם ולעולמי עולמים, אין לה לא שינוי ולא גרעון ולא תוספת, שנאמר: את כל הדבר אשר אנכי מצוה אתכם אותו תשמרון לעשות, לא תוסף עליו ולא תגרע ממנו[2]. ונאמר: והנגלות לנו ולבנינו עד עולם, לעשות את כל דברי התורה הזאת[3]. הא למדת שכל דברי תורה מצווין אנו לעשותן עד עולם. וכן הוא אומר: חוקת עולם לדורותיכם[4]. ונאמר: לא בשמים היא[5], הא למדת שאין נביא רשאי לחדש דבר מעתה. הלכות יסודי התורה פרק ט, הלכה א
ועיקרי הדברים ככה הן: שהתורה הזאת אין חוקיה ומשפטיה משתנים לעולם ולעולמי עולמים, ואין מוסיפין עליהן ולא גורעין מהן. וכל המוסיף או גורע, או שגילה פנים בתורה והוציא הדברים של מצוות מפשוטן, הרי זה בוודאי רשע ואפיקורוס. הלכות מלכים ומלחמותיהם ומלך המשיח פרק יא, הלכה ג
ראה גם פי’ מראה הפנים לירושלמי שם: “אמתת הדבר כך הוא .. ליכא מידי דכתיבי בנביאים וכתובים ולא רמיזי באורייתא .. אלא שצריך בינה יתירה להוציא הרמז מן התורה ולידע ולהבין ולהשכיל המקום ההוא בהתורה שנרמז בה כל דבר מהכתובים .. וכל זה הוא עכשיו, אבל לעתיד דכתיב ומלאה הארץ דעה וגו’, ולא יצטרכו ללמוד זה מזה, כולם ידעו וישכילו לכל הנרמז בהתורה מהנביאים והכתובים כו'”.(this is one example that if you think over the question, my answer etc, you see how a bit more looking into the sugya you have your “shtarke kashe” answered)
I didn’t make it up, Tanya igeres hakodesh 9 quotes I from arizal. Why it’s not against nitzchiyus hatorah simply maybe cuz the rambam says that refers to halachos of Torah. See Mishnah Torah. Same way arizal and medrashim say that shakla vitarya of Torah will be batul לעתיד לבוא.
The gaon- tznius: maybe only the gaon held that way chassidim not! Btw Tanya says that תלמוד תורה כנגד כולם was only בזמן השס not today, today the ikar avoda is tzedaka
The chazon ish learned Kabalah? Rav shach and reb aharon also?
They wrote seforim on it like niglah? Anyone saw them learn it? Or just your friend made it up?
I never heard of in chabad we do or do not “hold of the תפארת ישראל”
I thought that’s simple pshat in the Mishnah, you argued, so I brought the tiferes yisroel, maybe you bring me a proof that you should go after your logic and not your rebbe.
The Mishnah also says עשה לך רב
All chassidim held you need a rebbe to follow not to pick and choose whatever you want from each rebbe, cuz then your not following anyone. So it’s bologna to say “I’m heimish, I hold of everyone but I dont go to any rebbe or follow any rebbe)ומורא רבך כמורא שמים: מה מצות ה’ אינך רשאי להרהר אחריהם, ואפילו כשאין סברתך מסכמת להם. ותו שהרי גם בכל מקום הרי צריך שיהיה מורא שמים עליך, כמ”ש שויתי ה’ לנגדי תמיד. כ”כ ברבך לא תסתור דבריו, אפילו נראין דבריך מדבריו [כי”ד ר”מ ורמ”ב]. וגם בכל מקום אפילו שלא בפניו לא תחלוק עליו, רק תחשוב א”ע תמיד כיושב לפני רבך. וכדאמרינן [פסחים דנ”א ב’] אני ראיתי רבי יוחנן שאכל, אוכל בין בפניו ובין שלא בפניו. דכל המהרהר אחר רבו מהרהר אחר השכינה [כסנהדרין דק”י ע”א]. ותוכן כוונת דברי התנא, שכל המתעסק עם אדם, יחשבנו לאותו אדם
במדריגה יותר גבוה מאשר הוא באמת, דתלמידו יחשיבו כריעו, ולריעו כרבו, ולרבו יחשיב כאילו הוא יותר מאדם:
תפארת ישראל על משניותArso what makes you qualified?
You know people who have more yedias hatorah then the rebbe, but you refuse to see how much yedias hatorah the rebbe had . (מצטער סוכה listen to rav bridewitz – you hold of him? He speaks about the heter. By the way you sleep in a suckah? )
That’s called טמטום המוחRambam kol hatorah kulah. Learn hilchos Talmud Torah of that shulchan aruch harav, true others argue, and true the rosh says you can’t pasken without learning the reasons but it’s 1) according to the rambam fulfilling the mitzvah, 2); according to the shu harav – doing the mitzvah maybe not bishlaimos, but for almost everyone today, the proper way to learn, (after learning halachos hatzrichos, one should learn rambam) see hilchos Talmud Torah,
Whereas by learning a few mesechtos in nashim and nezikin, or even the whole Talmud bavli – no one holds you learned kol hatorah kolah (cuz you need to learn zrayim, taharos, and mechilta, sifri, sifra.)
A already mentioned that in Torah or it says Yaakov avinu finished avodas habirurim, that you don’t have an issue with?
When did the rebbe prophesize about moshiach ? About what ?
Seder hachassidim? What about what the rambam writes at the end of hilchos tumas tzarass about someone who talks against a Talmud chacham? Oh so you claim the rebbe wasn’t a real Talmud chacham but you are? I bet even you agree that no one alive today comes close to the rebbes yedias hatorah. And if you don’t agree, then Listen to more sichos.Seems like some have tons of טמטום המח והלב. Maybe eat only lubavitch shchita and chalov yisroel, and things will be clearer. I don’t know what to tell you.
“Yb
“The only way forward , if so , is for the habad rabbinic leadership to open up a no holds barred discussion of their leaders personality.
How , even a great person , who had a lot to offer [in his hasidim’s eyes], is not infallible”
I agree the rebbe is not infallible, if you listen to recording you can hear the rebbe corrects himself, but who am I to say the rebbe made a mistake? So for me I need to follow the Mishnah כל המהרהר אחר רבו כמהרהר אחר השכינה (similar to what the rambam writes that you need to followעדים even though they can be lieing)
There is a famous saying of the frierdiker rebbe about this topic when a chassid sees a Seder of a gadol, and sees something he doesn’t understand, he tries to break his head to understand it, a misnaged right away says that the gadol made a mistake.מתנבא על משיח means saying prophesy about moshiach , does not say anything about claiming a candidate, I’m saying the same way we say a candidate, you say no. Neither are prophesy.
From the context it would seem it’s talking about prophesy about WHEN moshiach is coming, and when he doesn’t come that time, it’s a חרפה.
Anyway a few points I saw and will comment on even though I should just say “look who’s talking about shluchim am haratzim” at least those shluchim learned semicha and rambam – kol hatorah kulah. Vda”l
About Jews being equal and non the less mevushal wine. In Tanya this idea is explained that we see indifferent areas in halacha have different dinim i.e. shchitas mumar of mechalel shabbos you can’t eat משאכ גילוי אריות, by יהרג ואל יעבור it’s the opposite. Perek לב תניא clearly says that a rasha could have a higher neshama, perek 2 too. Perek 31 also talks about how a beinuni – someone who never does any avaira even bitul Torah should feel lower than a rasha. But as explained in perek 2 and 32 there is a level in neshama that we are all equal.
Anyway today we start a new cycle of rambam . Did you learn kol hatorah kulah yet? Go learn and you won’t have such dumb questions.Why lubavitch shchita simple, the rambam says the way to come to fear hashem is thru thinking about his greatness then goes on to explain 4 perakim about מעשה בראשית ומעשה מרכבה. How are people who are against learning מעשה מרכבה going to get yiras hashem? So we eat from someone who learns these ideas. Now I don’t consider everything else traif or say everyone else is definitely not a yiras shamayim (some can have natural yiras shamayim) , but I need to be careful for myself to get from a shochet a yiras shamayim כ”ש from when
Avira amazing lines ! If someone is a תינוק שנשבע he’s not a good jew? A mumar is not a good jew? You know you can eat the shchita of a mumar besides for certain aviros, you can wear tefillin he wrote. See sh”u y”d siman 2 and o”ch hilchos tefillin (25 I think) What’s that meant to mean not a good jew, and all the mitzvos to the best of your ability
The Gemara in kidushin says even a Jew who serves a”z is called the son of hashem and hashem loves him. So you can add by the end “Hashem says every jew is my son”@avira I agree he’s a kofer like halevi quoted . Not because I decided. Not being carefull in a mitzvah at the most may make someone a מומר not an apikores, kofer, or min.
If you argue please bring a source. No I don’t agree with any of your ideas that you made up.רמב״ם הלכות תשובה
שלשה הן הנקראים אפיקורסין. האומר שאין שם נבואה כלל ואין שם מדע שמגיע מהבורא ללב בני האדם. והמכחיש נבואתו של משה רבינו. והאומר שאין הבורא יודע מעשה בני האדם כל אחד משלשה אלו הן אפיקורוסים
I don’t see anything about something who says tznius is not an ikar.
I had some time to look up the sicha about how we finished avodas habirurim. The rebbe brings from Torah or and toras chayim that already Yaakov avinu finished all the birurim, and was ready for the geulah,
so your kashe is why moshiach didn’t come then and it’s on Torah or and toras chayim and many other places.
The rebbe explaina there the difference between then and now see there.
Now Yaakov avinu after the thought he finished avodas habirurim he did the avoda of העלאת מ”נ see Torah or.Don’t ask kashas on anything before you learn the whole sugya!!!
@arso amazing can you translate it into English or you just say mashiach and decided it refers to chabad?
You are misnabe about moshiach the same way we are you say he’s not the rebbe.@yankel berel “There was no mesorah to keep yidden away from haskala – before haskala appeared .
Simply because it did not exist.”
Besides for moshiach, that you need a mesorah, please explain why?
@coffee addict. I hope you think yiddishkeit is superior.
I believe chabad is the penimius of yiddishkeit, as explained at length everywhere from Zohar to likutai sichos. I agree 100% that someone looking for bad in others will find it in chabad too , (the only difference is that by other sects of Jews if you don’t fit in, your kicked out, so satmer has no one not keeping all the takanos, or even the yeshivish where your not “kicked out” but anyone who went to bmg and left to work, he’s a Baal habas, so he’s not part of “yeshivish”
Avirah, nice chidush, but 1) I don’t believe any shliach does that and 2) “teaches that tznius is not very important ” if you mean by not screaming at people who don’t keep it or by being lenient themselves, this is non sence, maybe you should call every jew who comes in late to davening and “teaches” that it’s not important also an apikores, or someone who comes late to Seder , or answers a phone call in middle of learning etc cuz he’s showing that learning is not important.
This is what is called sinas chinam. See hachaltzu 5659. Trying to find issues with other Jews.@coffee addict
this question?
Is saying Lubavitch is superior, Lashon hara?
no its not, seems like you should review the halachos
@yankel berel tanya 32, is that the only line of tnaya you know? see gemarah and rambam what is a min and an apikores. not keeping tznius dosent make someone an apikores, nor does saying the rebbe is moshiach, making fun of a talmid chachum makes someone an apikores.
and the rambam clearly says that people who were raised a certain way these halachos dont apply too, and the chofetz chaim also speaks about this that because of this these halachos dont apply
simply the tanya is coming to explain dovid hamelech, not tell you how to act today, (thats why its in brackets) vda”la few points that i hope will answer all questions to anyone who is really honest.
Teachings of the baal shem tov (can be found in keser shem tov as well as many other seforim from the baal shem tovs talmidim)
1) G‑d sends a soul down to live on this world for seventy-eighty years, just to do a material favor for another—and certainly a spiritual one.
2) When someone issues a “verdict” on another, he is actually pronouncing his own verdict. For example, if one asserts that because of a certain misdeed another committed he is deserving of such-and-such punishment, he is actually issuing that verdict on himself. And conversely, if one says that because of a good deed or word that another has done he is deserving that G‑d should help him in the areas where he is needing, that blessing, too, is fulfilled on him himself.
3) Just like when a person looks into a mirror and sees dirt on his face, it is only because his face is dirty, so too when someone sees a fault in another, it is a sign that the fault exist within himself.
4) Upon hearing a negative report about another Jew, one should be greatly pained. For something bad has certainly occurred: If the report is true, then that individual is in an unhealthy situation; and if the report is untrue, then it is the one who is slandering is in a poor place.
5) The greatest of the great needs to learn from the simplest of the simple—for in the simple one sees the essence of simple sincerity.
6) The simpleton and the greatest scholar share the same lofty essence: they both are G‑d’s children. Just like a child’s countenance is similar to his father’s, so too G‑d’s children are merciful, bashful and kind—a reflection of their merciful, giving and forgiving Father.I hope this answers all attacks, if not see tanya perek 30, 32. About feeling lower than every jew even the lowest of the low, and about loving every jew as yourself.
Now before attacking chabad think of these 6 things. Very simple!
@coffee addict. anyone who learned chafatz chaim knows this claim in non sense.
@coffeeroomguy: seems like you hang around chabad a lot. thats called motzi shem ra!
@arso. its so important to keep people way from chabad, where is the MESORA for that? 2) which gadol wrote anything against chabad in the past 10 yrs? if you bring me people from 30 yrs ago, well seems like today they realized the claims were false, cuz if not, and chabad is keeping to grow, where are the gedolim today that care about yiddishkiet? they should be speaking about how bad chabad is to keep people away. and dont bring me a claim that some gadol SAID something to a private person, 1) its asur to be mikabel such a thing 2) if he would care, he would be more public about it.
The global population of Chabad has been estimated to be 90,000–95,000 adherents, accounting for 13% of the global Hasidic population. However, up to one million Jews are estimated to attend Chabad services at least once a year. (wikipedia)
and if you really only mean litoeles, you will have much more influence if you go to the gedolim and encourage them to sign a kol koreh to the jews to stay away from chabad, cuz it seems its forgotten about, (besides for a few board soles on tyw)
disclaimer: why chabad tries to impluence others to learn chassidus is not because we think we are better, its because we know we have something very precious and because of our love for other jews we want to share it. just like if you would hear of a good credit card offer, you would tell your friends. anyone who has been around knows this, whoever has other misconceptions about chabad and who thinks were a cult, obviously just knows chabad from misnagdishe motzi shem ra. in the time of the magid and the baal hatanya they also called chassidim the “kat” – cult for this reason!@arso well said. could not have said it better!
@avira no that’s not at all my point. My point is that writing and talking (and thinking) about people not keeping tznius or using smartphones is doing worse than those people your talking about. Even if it would be true. Very simple.
my point is that you and others are so obssesed about chabad and internet and tznius, what about lashon hara which is worse. then you went off track and are trying to say not to take chazal literly about lashon hara kineged kulam. and you made a whole cholent of different inyonim.
each sugya has its details i.e. chilul shabbos is not doche pikuach nefesh, but a mumer for chilul shabbos is pusul to shecht, giloy aroyos is the other weay around. see tanya perek 25.
regarding the effect on the nefesh the alter rebbe says lashon hara is the worst.ALL the seforim – thats my point all you read was wikipedia. you sure leaened all the seofrim? if you learned tanya you would have the answer
avira – tanya explains different, see and of perek 25.
thats a big difference between a chasid chabad and (some) others. i come to torah without any pre conceptions. im open to whatever it says.
why is someone who lends with ribis have no chelek in olem haba?
see gemara in bava metzia they were making fun of david that he was over eshes ish, he said someone who was over ashes ish has a chelek in olem haba. hamalbim pnai chavoro brabim does not, see tosfos there. gotta go, good shabbos@avira
The discussion was about the damage it does to the neshama, the alter rebbe quotes ghazal that it’s worse. And I brought to Regarding your statement about the damage internet does to the person. Now you change questions (like always) but by the way: Regarding how i would treet him. If I know someone that focuses on the bad in people, If I have hashpaa on him, I would suggest to him to go to therapy, it’s a really bad mida that also disturbs relationships etc .
Someone who kills someone I would probably get far away from him. But why did he kill someone? Because of lashon hara and motzi shem ra.
Just an example I would consider people who wrote publicly about chabad that they daven to the rebbe ch”v, and because of that caused such sins chinam and fights, and who knows what else, I would say they the the worst of the worst. Why is someone who kills someone so bad? I go with torah not logic,
Anyway see Tanya Derek 24-25 every avaira is AZ.@avira: “Get real. Chazal mean no such thing and you know it” well said you decide what chazal mean?! so i dont see how we can have a discussion, i believe in chazal!
@yankel
Question to be asked is the following : Do we all agree that habad came up with new stuff in the last 60-70 years ?
Yes or no ? yes, so? (every sect of jews came up with new stuff)
Did habad at anytime in its 250 years plus of existence at any time or location organize a gathering for hachtarat meleh hamashiach ?
Yes or no ? i heard there was meant to be one yud shvat 5753, is that an issue? Whats the problem? Its against halacha?
now in order to understand the reason for it, requires a lot of background, but its based on what i mentioned before that a melech can only become melech thru the nation accepting his malchus. See maamarim for rosh hashana in likutai torah, mitzvas minoi melech in derech mitzvosecha.
Did habad or any of its rebeim , including the other offshoots/branches [like niezin,liadi kapust etc] ever have their rabanim issue a public kol koreh for the public to accept their leader as mashiach ?
Yes or no? I understand your question is why did the rebbe? Simple cuz the time of moshiach came!
Those questions do not pertain to opinions.
They pertain to facts.
Facts are either true or untrue.
So to all of you , honest people , out there – Can we first get an unqualified and simple one word response to those questions ?@arso
In ALL the seforim avodas habirurim is what is required since sheviras hakeilim, and when that is finished Mashiach arrives IMMEDIATELY. (Surprise, surprise! You can find all this on our erstwhile friend chabadpedia.)
big mekubal! you see one line (not even in the source as you say from Wikipedia) and ask kashos, it reminds me of the joke they say about litvaksSo nice you have nasty litvak jokes. Edited.
I have to say “interesting” thread
One attack one chabad, answered, another, answered another, shown that the attack doesn’t start, another, again ….
This is my message for all critics (of any Jew) Just focus on your shlamos and if you believe in spreading chassidus so spread it, don’t focus on other people’s issues as I mentioned before it’s a mirror, the only other reason why hashem allows you to see it is to rebuke him directly in the way it says in sh”u, not to gossip and speak lashon hara about him. Done.
Hamiskabed bikilyon chavairo… Besides lashon hara as mentioned before is kineged kulom even thinking bad about another Jew is included in this (Tanya igeres hakodesh) and even worse, it destroys the neshama more than speaking (and more than watching the worst stuff on the internet (cuz it’s kineged a”z giloy arroyos and shfichas damim all together)Being chabad I learned to be Dan likaf schus. Just because someone has internet doesn’t mean he does avairos. 2) one of the reasons of the revealation of chassidus in the later generations is because of the nisyonos, so it’s pretty clear in chabad that the way to keep away from these nisyonos is thru learning and doing the avoda of chassidus. Every person has his mashpia to guide him wether or not he should have internet based on his work, shlichus etc. A few yrs before the asifa in 5772, I remember schools sending letters to parents about the dangers of internet and to get filters. I don’t know any lubavitchers who use internet without a filter.
People also said that the shluchim that went in middle of nowhere with no religious community will not stay frum, we see that b”h the past 70 yrs they raised frum and chassidish kids. This is because they have the koach of the mishaleach – the Rebbe as explained in maamarim and sichos. So they have extra kochos when using the internet for kiruv.
And btw again same as tznius, I personally don’t see internet more common by chabad then in other communitys. Meaning in yeshiva no one has, people involved in chinuch in chabad most don’t have, who have? Business men and shlucchim. By other communitys it’s the same, just i.e. by litvish more go to kolel, so most don’t have there. But the ones that go to business is the same thing.
If you know what the Rebbe would do, maybe you be the Rebbe! If a Rebbe is only someone with common sense, we have plenty of that in chabad.Avaira: at the Citi field event there was a clear peak from rav vosner that it’s Asur to use internet other than for business, and even then not in the home. And more limitations. Seems like the visitors of the yeshiva world are following that psak very well??
Why do we need to go to a statium to hear a simple psak?
The bais din in chabad in crown heights and in eretz yisroel put out their psak. Which I amagine all follow (being Dan likaf zchus)
I have classmates who grew up on shlichus and we’re friends of non religious kids, bh they were mekarev many yidden, and those kids in my opinion became stronger in their yiddishkiet.
This idea that the shluchim and there kids are effected negativity, based on what I see (my classmates in school and yeshiva) is totally made up from beginning to end. I don’t read all the lashon hara and Motzi Shem Ra on the internet, but even if there are some stories, there are also many in frum closed off cumminities“It’s like the internet. Other chatzeiros have rules about internet usage that originate from their rebbes. Lubavich only has rules suggested by rabbis and mashpi’im.”
So what’s the problem, lubavitch takes mashpiim very seriously the Rebbe said it’s a bakasha nafshis and even stronger.
In general the Rebbe had a different approach to radio and technology that everything in the world was created for the kovod of hashem. The Rebbe said (I’m pretty sure) that it’s kefirs to say something was created by the Satan. That doesn’t mean everyone should use internet, the Rebbe spoke about this look in the maftachos for more details.
Hashem told Moshe he wants to destroy the yidden and make Moshe into the great nation, Moshe stood up for the yidden. This is chabads way, not to push everyone who doesn’t fit in out box out rather to be mikarev them as it says in Tanya perek 32. (Kedushas Levi in parshas chukas and somewhere else I forgot also says that a manhig is someone who sees the good in Jews, not who rebukes)In other words you’re saying that you “feel” it’s worse. Al pi Torah for you vlo sasuru there is no difference,
Yes most frum homes and stores to cover themselves but the employees where pants, don’t cover hair which is an erva .
Yes we are proud to accept baalai teshuvah who don’t yet keep every chumra or even halacha. Every mitzvah is a yichud nitzchi with hashem, doesn’t make a difference what the person did or will do later. If a person is 24/7 butal to Hashem – doing Mitzvos, learning Torah, his business Al pi Torah, taking care of himself and family lishem shamayim, and bchol drochecha daehu, he is a complete merkovah to Hashem, if not then at the times he’s not, he’s not. (Tanya perek 6-7, 22-23, 34) I don’t know what’s the makor of the word frum – especially the way people use it today like Talking lashon hara is still considered frum, but dressing not tznius is not frum.
And I made much more points.Why does chabad focus on moshiach more than anyone else?
Very simple, the alter Rebbe says in Tanya that moshiach is tachlis hakavanah of Brias haolem it’s from a medrash,
Most other Jews stress on gan Eden being the tachlis (which also has makoros in Gemara, and the rambam writes this also that after texhiyas hamasim at a later stage there will be neshamos without bodies – gan Eden.)
While the rambam says moshiach and techiyas hamasim are from the 13 ikrim, it’s a question why if it’s not the tachlis, there are answers, and the chsam sofer says that it’s not an ikar, one must believe because it says in Torah.
Since chabad goes with the medrash and the ramban that moshiach is the tachlis (see why in the sichos) that’s why it’s a bigger focus in chabad.@Arso demanding moshiach – like we’re going to hashem and threatening him? Like the dor haflaga that’s the accusation? I don’t see how that even makes sense.
Basically everything chabad does, first is criticized, a few decades later is copied, and a little later others claim they started it. Not like I care or anyone in chabad cares, as long as everyone catches on is fine.Tznius: would having a live Rebbe fix the issue? You guys have so many compliments on our Rebbe, now you say the issue is we don’t have a live Rebbe?!
1) this is completely lashon hara as mentioned b4 lashon hara is worse than az giloy arroyos and shfichas Domim together.
2) to be milamed zchus. About 90% of chabad today (probably even more) was not chabad 100 yrs ago. So some how the way the rabonim in chabad teach and lead, it brings people to be more shomer Torah and Mitzvos even though they may rely on more lenient views in tznius (or some not keep any opinion but at least they are shomer shabbos etc, instead of being not shomer tznius AND going totally otd and sending their kids to public schools etc)
3) I personally don’t see a bigger issue in tznius in chabad then anywhere else. I try to watch where I look. It’s very hard to notice that a person is religious and not dressing tznius without really starring at them.
Also this idea that tznius effects the whole community that’s rediculos! Do you have a cleaning lady? Do you make sure she dresses tzniusdik – skirt, covers her hair. Also mail women, employees in the kosher stores, no one has an issue!!!!@arso
Lashon hara is worse than not keeping tznius. It’s kneged a”z giloy arayos and shfichus domin. Can you please stop talking bad about other Jews.
Disclaimer: I don’t think me or chabad are better than any other Jew. As I explained before we follow the Baal Shem tov to spread chasidus, because every Jew can gain from learning it for some it will help then keep basic Torah and Mitzvos – like the thousands of Jews who became from thru doing Mitzvos and learning chassidus. For B’nai Torah it will give them more chayus and help them learn Torah lishmah as explained in eitz chayus
Bh I had the privilege to be born into a chabad family and get a chabad chinuch, I try to share it just like any normal person tries to help others.
Also we know that is is tachlis hakavanah of Brias haolam.
Food for thought about tznius in chabad: 1) who exactly are you criticising? The fact that we don’t have a Rebbe cuz he would fix it, well in chabad we don’t tell the Rebbe what to do, it’s the other way around, this the obviously the kavanah (as hinted in the last maamarim and sichos)
2) the rabonim – they have their reasons why not to scream about it and kick kids out of school – one maybe because it may do worse. (Btw just because everything can seem good on the outside doesn’t say what’s doing in the inside(
3) the people – we have to see good in every Jew, the only reason hashem allows one to see bad is 1) to rebuke him directly – not to make fun of him or her on the internet 2) is bacause seeing bad in another in a mirror, it’s really refecting oneself, thru fixing oneself, it will help the other too@arso we – chabad – have our derech to spread chassidus chabad to everyone, like the alter rebbe – baal hatanya – said that its for every jew. some of the other talmidim held of different ways of spreading chassidus, to focus on belief in the tzadik, coming to him, etc. but they all were involved in spreading the teachings of chassidus.
are you asking a question? i dont understand.
alot of comments, the rambam says in igeres taimon that nevuah will return before moshiach comes, he says a year (before 5000)
everyone always yeared for moshiach the way chabad does, thats why when chabad started saying “we want moshiach now” a litvish gadol said its kefira because it says im yismamea chake lo.
anyway i doubt the average person outside chabad knows why awaiting moshiach is so important, one of the 13 ikrim. and you you know please answer (aderaba teach your freinds too)
phishing attempts deleted (again)@arso we – chabad – have our derech to spread chassidus chabad to everyone, like the alter rebbe – baal hatanya – said that its for every jew. some of the other talmidim held of different ways of spreading chassidus, to focus on belief in the tzadik, coming to him, etc. but they all were involved in spreading the teachings of chassidus.
are you asking a question? i dont understand.
alot of comments, the rambam says in igeres taimon that nevuah will return before moshiach comes, he says a year (before 5000)
everyone always yeared for moshiach the way chabad does, thats why when chabad started saying “we want moshiach now” a litvish gadol said its kefira because it says im yismamea chake lo.
anyway i doubt the average person outside chabad knows why awaiting moshiach is so important, one of the 13 ikrim. and you you know please answer (aderaba teach your freinds too)
@arso – you cant say which chassidus If you continue to push someone for identifying info your posts will be deleted.whether or not there is or is not a problem, to make sure i dont go there and my kids dont go there, the solution is healthy parenting, correct and healthy relationship with Hashem thru learning chassidus. (proven and recognized by even goyim)
instead of trying to block out drugs, and internet, become healthy people who don’t need to escape lifeAll three stages of this process are openly expressed in our Torah reading. The First Tablets refer to the Torah as it transcends the world (and thus they begin with the letter alef). The descent into the context of worldliness is reflected by the sin of the Golden Calf.9 And the giving of the Second Tablets reflect the ultimate elevation that comes after this descent….
The advantage of the Second Tablets is also reflected in the contrast between the First and Second Tablets mentioned above: that the First Tablets were the “work of G‑d,” while the Second Tablets were hewn by Moshe. It is true that the First Tablets represented a higher level of revelation, but the advantage of the Second Tablets lay in that their holiness permeated the realm of worldly existence. Thus the First Tablets could be broken, for worldly existence represents a contrast and even a conflict with their holiness. The Second Tablets, by contrast, are eternal, for they represent the fusion of holiness with material existence.This level is reflected in the ultimate fulfillment to be experienced by the Jewish people, the Redemption, which will follow the teshuvah of the Jewish people. And at that time, it will be revealed how the material dimensions of the world will have become fused with their ultimate spiritual purpose, how they all exist, “for the sake of the Torah.”
see at length ki sissa 5752if the only issue you have with christians is that they believe yoshke is mossia, i dont know where to start.
the idea of what you call “promoting moshiach” : moshiach told the baal shem tov that moshiach will come when his wellsprings will be spread outside – when all jews will learn chassidus. (see keser shem tov first letter) ושאלתי את פי משיח, אימת אתי מר, והשיב לי, בזאת תדע, בעת שיתפרסם למודך ויתגלה בעולם ויפוצו מעיינותיך חוצה מה שלמדתי אותך והשגת
so chabad who follows the ways of the baal shem tov, try to spread chassidus to bring moshiach.
telling others the rebbe is moshiach, is not clearly from the rebbe. but to explain the approach of the ones who do this: obviously the one teaching toras hachassidus which is a taste of the torah of moshiach – is moshiach. he’s the yechida klalis. now when the rebbe was alive, simply if all jews would accept him as moshiach, we would have been able to build the bais hamikdash, and all move to eretz yisroel. this needs to happen thru jews accepting someone as moshiach. the rambam clearly writes moshiach does not need to do wonders,
now even though we cant see the rebbe, the rebbe has a massive “army” continuing his work, and when all jews are ready, we can build the bais hamikdash and move to isreal. to my knowledge chabad is growing and growing and biderech hateva, the rate chabad chassidus is going now, pretty soon every jew will be learning chassidus.
its also explained in chassidus (derech mitzvosecha and many other places) that a melech can only be thru accepting his malchus by the nation.
i never saw ananswer whether you guys are chassidim, litvish etc?
also can you explain to me how moshaich will be accepted by all jews? mekoros?Also putting aside everything: what is the issue with promoting moshiach? 1 makor that its wrong? Saying it was never done dosent mean its wrong, especially after torah shebal peh was written down. (btw rav bridewitz on youtube says that they once told reb moshe that chabad is “promothing” moshiach, and reb moshe feinstein said so? Whats the problem? You could deny this – no problem, but still rav bridewitz does not think its an issue, (and anyone who speaks bad about any jew – thats called lashon hara and its forbidden to accept))
There are plenty of things jews do today that jews didnt do 100 yrs ago: kolel for everyone, printing seforim especially translations and explanations, women working, late shidduchim, using technology (whatever level), does evey step i take need to have a mesorah?
also you never answered me about reb hillel zaltman?
gut shabbos, go learn chassidus and wake up your neshama@ aviara and yankel berel: you didnt reply anything logival arguments or proofs just like i said “i heard, against mesorah”
its impossible for someone living in lakewood to know whats going on in yerushaliim unless its from the media, who can make up whatever they want, or by hearing from others – good stuff, great, if its not rechilus. negitive stuff is called lashon hara.
how do you know when moshiach will come he will be automaticlly accepted by everyone? unlike moshe rabeinu who was not – took time. the rambam writes the oppisite.
in general you guys have a major misconception on chabad. as if all we do is promote the rebbe.
chabads actions are very similar to most jews, we keep sh”u (obviously you’ll attack us for shalosh seudos, and i can attack you back for getting married past 20, or shaving), we learn in yeshiva etc. some things we do dif. we learn chassidus, kiruv, focus on davening, have a different way of learning than litvaks. etcedited
@coffee addict reb nochum of tzenobel held the baal shem was moshiach after his passing, just becaseu it wasnt done before doesnt mean its against mesorah, what will you say when moshiach comes? against the mesorah, he didnt come for the past 2000 yrs. it was never a sugya, people didnt koch in it cuz it wasn’t relevant, (look it the shiurim seforim of sanhedrin, most skipped all the sugyos (r shmuel rosovski i.e.)using the internet is against mesorah. driving a car is also. gitten is also much more commen today. kolel also is against mesorah!
“are you aware that R’ Moshe Sternbuch has said that Kol Hator is a fraud, and was not actually written by the Gra?”
so i should beleive something you “heard” that rav shternbach “said” over a printed sefer that was around for over 60 yrs.
what about מבוא לחסידות ולדרכה של חב”ד around for over 80 yrs?
youre trying to accuse chabad of something they are doing as wrong and kfira, when we see in gemara (at least according to the simple meaning and many rishonim) it was done. now i brought you more evidance it was done. all you have to reply is rav shterbach said. 1) i dont beleive he said that just because you said so 2) he’s one person he cant create history.
so lets get this clear, i have a gemara, and printed books that it was done, you have “a shmua” that it was never done which still doesnt make it wrong of kefira.
similar to all the other arguments that chabad has evidence – documents, pictures, signed letters (menachem mashiv nafshi which i doubt you ever even bothered looking at) and you just have “i heard, i heard, i heard”!
if you want to argue about history, the only way is with printed and recorded evidence. other then that, people lived in many dif. communities and there is no way of knowing who held of who, and who considered who a gadol or not, besides from listening to the baalai lashon hara. which is an isur, (which answers your complaint about chabad propaganda even according to you that its not true, half truths? you want chabad to spread lashon hara, sinas chinam etc, aderaba, be like the students of aharon@yankel berel. we cant argue about history but see the book מבוא לחסידות ולדרכה של חב”ד – הלל צייטלין, he writes about chassidim saying there rebbe was moshiach as i wrote. he passed away in 1942. he wrote his articles and books before that obviously.
in sefer קול התור written by a talmid of the vilna gaon – rav hillel rivlin – he writes about the gra gave him tefillos to daven that he – the vilna gaon – be revealed as moshiach.
so apperently it was done by litvaks and chassidim. you say it was not – bring proof!
“chabads propoganda machine the past 50 yrs” better than the info you get from your classmates and newspapers the past 30 yrs. (or the the history books written the past 10 or 20 yrs)
in the above sefer of rav hillel zaltzman he also writes about the attacks of misnagdim – in the time of the alter rebbe – baal hatanya that chassidim were holding to highly of him, accusing chassidim as saying he’s g-d ch”v. sold old stuff as today, nothing new. these articles are from the 1930s.We all claim what we do is the mesorah.
The gemarah says is sanhedrin the the talmidim all said their rebbe is THE moshiach (of all jews)
So clearly this is not a new thing, (maybe by the litvaks is wasn’t done for many generations, so the question is on them not us, and by chassidim it was done for many generations, in ruzin, tzenabel, chabad etc)
And litvaks do the same thing too. Rav chaim was THE gadol hador, or Rav shach etc.There are many things that litvaks do that i think is not mesorah, like skipping chazaras hashatz in yeshiva. The way they learn “lumdos” before learning kol hatorah kulah biderech kitzara as it says in sh”u. Women going to work, whereas the posuk says kol kvoda bas melech penima, and many other things – davening so fast
people can understand purim 1956 the way they want – out of context,
yankel berel may i know what “type/sect” of jew you are? also everyone else.
in the sefer menachem mashiv nafshi there are plenty of letters (with pictures) of all the gedolim to the rebbe. including rav moshe feinstein, reb shlome zalman aurbach, the brisker rov, the rogetchover, the pnai menachem (who came out against rav shach (together with many chassidishe rebbe’s) when he attacts chabad and the rebbe), rav mordechai gifter, rav yitchok hutner, rav pinchos hirshbrung, the shevet halev, the minchas yitzchok.i.
i agree that there were those that didnt like chabad and the rebbe, those were pretty much all from the misnagdishe yeshivos. (even though rav shach officially claimed he’s only against chabad today, 1) he was close to rav aharon kotler who was a known misnaged, 2) when he came out against chabad (almost) all the chassidishe rebbes didnt join his party, and alot of the big ones signed a machaah against him and distanced from him, like the video on youtube of when he came to Bar Mitzva of R’ Aron Mordchai Belzer Rebbe Son 1989, and tried to say mazal tov to the vitznitzer rebbe (zeide) , he ignored him.
do your reseach, its all availible like i said, unlike all the rumers about chabad, its all just rumers, no documents, pictures etc.