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By “turning back the clock” I mean that if, lets say too many Jews came to Eretz Yisroel which would be ״שלא יעלו כחומה״ (even though less than 7% of כלל ישראל were living in Eretz Yisroel in ’48), so then the תיקון would be for them to move away? If their arrival was somehow assur, so is it assur for them to stay once there?
Coffee Addict,
“Happy New Year” was complaining about NOT having daylight savings time during the winter, which results in “loosing” an hour of Friday afternoon.
Ujm said “We are following in the footsteps of HaGaon HaRav Elazar Menachem Man Shach zt”l, who also spoke theoretically when he paskened that it is absolutely worthwhile and even obligatory for the State of Isrel to surrender land to the Arabs for peace, if in fact surrendering land to the Arabs would result in peace.”
He wasn’t speaking theoretically. He was asked by the Chareidi politicians whether to vote in favor of the “Oslo Agreement”. He never for a second suggested the State of Israel surrender its entire sovereignty to the Arabs or anyone else, which is what you are suggesting. He also qualified his psak, as you said “IF in fact surrendering land to the Arabs would result in peace.” That’s a really big IF, don’t you think so?
somejewiknow said “For example, take the evil masis imadiach Kook yimach shemo. There are a number of gedolim who have taught that he is a rushe gumir and yimach shemo. But, there are zero charedi gedolim who have taught that he is not a rushe.”
Rav Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld זצ״ל, who was his בר פלוגתא on many fronts, treated him with respect and friendship, and worked with him on some important projects like the famous joint trip to the “Moshavot” when they travelled and taught together for almost a month. So I don’t think he held Rav Kook ז״ל was a “rasha” ח״ו. I think the mainstream Chareidi position is that he was an Ehrliche Yid and Talmid Chacham, just mistaken on certain crucial points. Obviously Satmar and others hold more strongly against him, but I never saw anyone, even Satmar, write on him ״ימח שמו״ Chas Veshalom. Do you consider Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ז״ל and Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv ז״ל to be Chareidim? They did not hold Rav Kook ז״ל to be a “rasha”.
If we had Daylight Saving Time all year it would cause many people to have difficulty Davening Shachris and putting on Tefillin at the right time. Jews have managed with short Fridays for a very long time, like 3300 years or so, so לכאורה most have it under control more or less. You could always move to Florida where Shkiya in winter is almost an hour later anyway.
flamingOTD, your posts don’t make sense.
Even if the Zionists violated the גזרה of גלות or מרידה באומות at some point (’48?, Lechi and Etzel?, צריך עיון when exactly that happened.), but once that already happened is it necessary or even possible to “turn back the clock”, even according to that Shittah? From what I understand the Divrei Yoel Davened for the safety of the Jews in Eretz Yisrael during all of the wars, and he and his Chassidim continued to build in Israel until today, so it doesn’t seem they hold of destroying the Yishuv once it exists.
somejewiknow, you really mean this: “Zoinists love that part of naziism, that and the beard cutting and tefillin burning. Some at the Mirkaz Harav Church don’t realize the endgame of their leaders.”
Are you OK? Have you ever been to Mercaz Harav or know someone who went there? When there was a terrorist shooting attack there some years ago, the Satmar Rebbe (don’t remember which one) burst into tears and took several minutes until he could calm down. Some Chassidim who were there were surprised. He said to them “They are Yidden like we are Yidden, they were sitting in a Beis Medresh learning the same Torah we learn.” I don’t think he would have been so upset about a shooting in a church.
Qwerty613, excuse me for butting in, but you said four things, of which I have only heard of one.
1. The belief that the Rebbe is a deity.
2. That he was a Novi.
3. That he is Moshiach.
4. That the Torah laws are no longer obligatory.
I have only heard of number three, which בפשטות is wrong but not כפירה. I don’t know any Lubavitcher who believes number one רחמנא ליצלן. Number four would make all of their Mitzvah Campaigns irrelevant, so that also doesn’t seem to make sense. Number two I never heard of. Moshiach is supposed to be a Novi, but I never heard of anything said by the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L in Hashem’s name as a Nevuah. Could you perhaps clarify?
Yaakov Yosef – Reb Chaim Brisker had a Chassidish son-in-law? Which “Brisk Yeshiva” do his descendants run?
This “conversation” has one whopper of a title! Ujm, don’t you think you exaggerated a little?
My Chavrusa, who isn’t a “Chabadnik”, began his Teshuvah journey at a Chabad house. My guess is that most people whose life is touched one way or another by Lubavitch don’t end up becoming Lubavitchers themselves. From what I understand of their philosophy, simply getting a Jew to do a Mitzvah even once is enormously important, even if he never becomes a full fledged Baal Teshuvah, so they probably don’t see anything as low benefit.
Reb Ujm, who are you making this offer to? Every time any sort of peace plan was proposed to the Arabs, they refused. From before the State was founded down to today. Why is this plan different? Who would even be able to make such an offer legally?