Forum Replies Created
December 28, 2012 2:10 am at 2:10 am in reply to: When & why did we start giving children more than one name? #916283
I spent the last few hours b’iyun on this topic.
A few rare exceptions: Rav Oshia Beribi, Rabi Eliezer Hakefar Beribi found in Eruvin 53a, Avoda Zara 43a, Chullin 28a, 84b.
Abba Shaul, Abba Yosi.
Ayeh Mari – Gittin 35a
One and only one of the Ba’ali Tosfos that has a double first name: R’ Yaakov Yisroel, mentioned in Tosafot Ketubot 98b and Chullin 112a.
Even in this case, note that Yaakov and Yisroel were the same person: Yaakov Ovinu.
The Chasam Sofer (which I recalled, boruch Hashem for blessing my zicoron) – Chasam Sofer Even Haezer II #18, see for discussion.
Both the Noda B’yehuda and Chasam Sofer seem to use negative tones against giving more than one name.
Rav Moshe Feinstein Iggerot Moshe Orach Chaim V, 10:3 suggests that the custom originated out of necessity. When Jews were locked in ghettos, and they had to obtain something from outside the ghetto walls, they would have to bribe the guard to allow one of them out. The guard would not let them out unless he was relatively certain that they would not be caught. As such, the guards were unwilling to accept bribes to allow people who only had Jewish names out of the ghetto as this would surely get them caught. Giving a non-Jewish name only for the trip out of the ghetto also would not suffice because one who is not used to their non-Jewish name is also likely to get caught. To counter this problem they began to give people two names, a Jewish and non-Jewish one. They would be called by both names so that they would
be used to their non-Jewish names as well in case the need ever arose to use it.
Reb Moshe writes (Iggerot Moshe, Orach Chaim V, 10:3) that although it was certainly inappropriate to start such a practice of giving multiple names, since it is not forbidden, any rabbinic objection would certainly go unheeded.
From all this, HALOCHA L’MA’ASEH – one should REFRAIN from giving two names unless it is necessary!!!
Related to another thread discussion about giving names,
Boruch Hashem that He was mezacka me to be marbitz Torah b’rabim!!December 28, 2012 12:24 am at 12:24 am in reply to: When & why did we start giving children more than one name? #916281
I seem to recall seeing in a sefer that a name gives a person chayus. Since the doros became weaker and needed more chayus, additional first names were given.
(Possibly I saw this in a Chasam Sofer? – the collective wisdom of the members is welcome to correct me)
If this is correct (very big IF) – is it important to give more than one name?
What’s next? People who drive as opposed to taking a horse-drawn cart as our forefathers did?
When they used a horse-drawn cart, there was no car available. When they chose black and white clothes, colored clothing was readily available but specifically rejected.
The Vilna SHas was adopted by klaal yisroel. We learn from seforim filled with dafim/pages which we turn, not pixels.
Tecnology and innovations creep in after the hamon amm is poretz geder. The first to do so are porkei ol, the latter are following accepted minhag.
I call the first ones “Nachshon ben Aminodov of Tumah” as they jump into the raging sea of modern secularism.
I am happy that I am mesameach you. Use the simcha for avodas Hashem.
“ould it be OK for someone to be “machmir” and say hamotzi on a piece of cake? surely, he must say mezonos even though it is easier.”
Kiruv helps “us” – internally. We are One. The rechokim are in critical condition and need immediate life support. If we close our eyes and let them “die”, we will soon succumb too.
Not proselytizing – being mochiach as commanded in Hochayach Tochiach for those encouraging bittul torah, and being marbitz the great or hatorah of da’as torah to dispel the darkness of Hellenistic views propagated by the Enlightenment Movement, the Maskilim who later became the reform.
An ayzah tovah is worth more than a dozen meaningless oy vays and sighs. My aytzos are emes, as they come from dedication to toras emes. The oy vays and sighs come from belly aches.
Seems from your response and comment about shovivim, that you come from Sefardim or Chassidic lineage. May you succeed in the avodah of shovivim: Tikun Hayisod.
My comments that yidden wear black and white has exceptions. The kohen godol wore gold clothes – just as the Rishon L’zion and various Chachamim. This also has a Tradition in yiddishkeit.
ut unless you are a Kohen Godol, a Rish L’Tzion or a Chacham of a kehillah – black and white are the levushim.
Firstly, chazal tell us “ain oni ella b’da’as” – poverty/poorness is merely a mindset. If you are someach b’chelko, you will instantly become wealthy.
Secondly, there are many who give tzedaakah tthrough their rabbonim – if you belong to a kehillah, speak to your rav – he can and will help you get tzeddakah b’kovod.
Thirdly, once you become a “oiver al hapsochim” -collecting on the streets, the chiyuv of tzedakah is actually DOWNGRADED to giving you a lesser amount than if you are not panhandling! As such, YOU are to blame for those who give you only a token amount, as is the halocha.
Fourthly, everyone has a tafkid in his lot in life. The malach was gozer on you to be a chochom or tiesh, onie or osheer etc, it is predestined and THAT is your shlichus and nisayon which you must be mikabel b’simcha instead of judging others. Many gedolim suffered extensive poverty and they were able to grow into our gedolim.
Finally, since you are not busy working, maybe join a kollel so that you will have zchus hatorah to enrich your life with ruchniyus.
In case you wonder: Kesef mina lon? The gashmiyus follows, by others who want the great zchus to partner with you by being the zevulunm, supporting your learning with kovod.
My $0.02 based on many years of Torah study lishmah.
sof davar – “Why do take for a davar pashut that saying mezonos is a kulah and hamotzi is a chumra?” The whole purpose and raison d’etrecof “mezonos” rolls is to avoid the need to wash and the “tircha” of bentching. That is what this is all about! Looking for kullas (or for the modern porthodox: kool-us).
Kabbolistically, a person should wear only white (davka)on shabbos – seems it represents chesed (while black is for gevuros). Those that are noheg al pi kabbalah should follow their minhagim. Unless you consistently follow kabbalah minhagim – it is irrelevant to you.
In any event, the white (and not “colors”) is consistent with the color scheme of other yidden who wear white and black.
Regarding the so-called “famous portrait of the Tzemach Tzedek (3rd Rebbe of Lubavitch)…always wearing white clothes” – I once saw this DRAWING (not a photograph) and it seemed to have been sketched in black and white, thus the fact that there was no color in his hat or bekkishe is no rayah at all.
Some Rosh Yeshivas, as in CHaim Berlin etc. on shabbos would wear their talis by folding the black stripes on their shoulder UNDER the talis so that only the white part of the talis showed. This way they were yotzeh the kabbalistic need to “wear white” on shabbos.
On yomim noroyim (strictly mmarried men) wear kittels, to be yotzeh wearing white (among other reasons) but no hakpodeh to wear ONLY white (pants, shoes etc).
Wearing gray and/or blue is stam being poetz geder, and as generations decline, following your derech of prikus ol of the black-white malbush, your grandchildren may wear orange and pink r”l. That can happen when we start making minor adjustments to “al titosh toras imecha”.
If you leave a straight path by just one degree, after a few miles you won’t be able to see the path you left.
On the issue of Secular Studies (which are not tomeh) Rav Avraham Yitzchok Bloch in response to Rav Shwab’s question about
“This that you asked me to clarify the halacha concering secular studies and the nature of the curriculum of the German schools. However it is extremely difficult in these matters to provide a clear halachic response. Because these matters are largely built upon hashkofa and principles which are derived from aggada….are so strongly influenced in the specific nature of the people involved as well as the particular circumstances they are living in and other sociological and psychological issues…”
The Minchas Elozor z’l in his sefer Divrei Torah is also meikel
on the subject of secular studies for German Jews.
This is not a “blanket” heter for everyone to just go waste their precious time on secular studies!
Those who study Torah have been rebuked for even spending too much time davening (see chazal: manichim chayay olom v’oskim b’chaya shaah – how can they give up time from their eternal life (Torah study) on matters that are temporary (davening for gashmiyus)).
But those who would spend time speaking loshon horah or c”v other avoros MIGHT be allowed to waste their time on “parave” secular studies. Although, the secular studies cause a timtum a’lev v’hamoach, as is evident from many comments from members that contradict da’as v’hashkofas Torah.
“The text has the kedusha, not the paper. If you want kedusha, hire a sofer to write out the entire text on real Klaf (like S.T.A.M.) in Ktav Ashurit.”
The paper of a siddur or chumash has a din of shaimos requiring geniza. No need to davka have a klaf and ksav ashuris. A broken Kindel or Ipad, no matter how much Torah was downloaded on it – does not become shaimos.
[There is an interesting shaylah about deleting a page that contains shaimos sh’ainom nimchokim from a computer or electronic device – I leave that for another thread].
musser zoger – let me get this straight, you think it is a kovod for you to assist an akum to serve his avodah zorah and transgress on e of the sheva mitzvos bnei noach?? Huh?? This choggeh is directly connected to avoda zorah! As a yid you have a responsibility to insure that even goyim must keep the sheva mitzvos. At the very least, how dare you consider it an “honor” to help the goy serve his getchkeh?!
This is what happens when secular thinking poisons the mind set of a yid. Open a gemorah, fill your mind with Toras Chaim and you will start thinking straight and get to understand what is an honor for a yid.
If you are not working during the goyish tumahdays, come join us in the Bais Medresh at BMG and you will feel honored.
One of the zchusim that redeemed the Yidden from Mitzrayim is that they kept their levushim. These levushim were not the “yellow star”, the ” Kippah, Tallis & Kitte” (and/or Teffilin), rather it was the levushim similar to the intrinsic definition of what we wear today, albeit, without the “modern” twists.
The clothes were tzius both practically and in spirit. The colors and style were modest and humble (comparable in this sense to the modern dress which evolved to a simple white button down shirt and black suit for men and black skirts/dresses for the women as is the minhag in the Torah city of Lakewood).
[The clothes they “borrowed” from the Mitzrim, it says in some seforim that they were only used on the children of the B.Y. because they were too short and not tznius in spirit for adults}.
Minhagim are the very cornerstone of yiddishkeit, hence the “4 questions” on Pessach includes the question of “matbilim” – merely a minhag, but that keeps our Tradition alive.
In halacha it is mentioned (Shulchon Oruch Y.D.) that a minhag is (at times) more chomur than a din. The Gemarah also mentions that b’shas cherum, yidden must give up their lives for a minhag, even the color of their shoes!
It is TOTALLY inappropriate and painful to see on a frum Yeshiva website comments that seem to mock minhagim and say that minhagim is gematriya gehenim, something straight from the Haskalah/Reform movement. They first attacked minhagim, and then they attacked the Anochi of the Aseres Hadibros. They took out parts of davening and then removed the Kail Adon.
I am surprised that the frum members are not howling in protest! B”h I have the opportunity to be mikayim l’shem yichud the mitzvah d’oraysa of Hochayach Tochiach and make this public machoah.
I posted the psak of the OU that it is Hamotzei. Some want to be maykil on this more than the OU while declaring that their standards of Kashrus and Halacha is “above” the OU. Ironic.
The OU does not seek extra chumros, in fact, whenever reasonable they will rely on kulos (e.g. bishul yisroel, chodosh, pas yisroel, cholov yisroel, bdikas to’loim etc.). If the OU and their Poskin (Rabbis Belsky, Schechter and the RCA) all INSIST that it is Hamotzei, one who makes mezonos on a so called “mezonos roll” is going below the halachic standards of even the OU.
Yes there are shitas on which to be somech, but a “kal sh’bkalim” is one who collects kulos and leads his life on the very fringe of halacha, utilizing any and all kulos available.
Rolls and mezonos can not coexist; mezonos rolls are a spurious term and the correct brochah for the so-called mezonos roll is hamotzi lechem min haaretz, with netilas yadayim a prerequisite.
See halachuc discussion and reasons:
In your family, do you spend the majority of your medical bills on the healthy members of the family or on the sick ones?
The spiritually healthy members of our community care enough about Torah and mitzvos to make them a priority. They will be mosser nefesh for chinuch, shabbos, kashrus etc.
But lo aleinu the spiritually sick of our brethren (who don’t even realize that they are sick) will not extend themselves to send their children to yeshivas, spend extra for kashrus etc.
These spiritually sick will eventually infect us all, so by helping them we also improve our health. Kiruv orgs are not for “them” but for “us” – to insure we remain spiritually safe.
Besides this, arvus and ahvas yisroel keeps us away from the them vs us mentality.
Wolf – “Why should it be any worse than using a paper book?”
Short answer: Tradition.
We dress “traditional”, some even wear the clothes of the “old country” (at various levels: homberg, kapotte, shtreimel, white socks, knickers etc.). We certainly don’t wear latest styles of clothing and hairstyles. This is because we keep to our “Traditions”.
Yes, after a while the tradition evolves, especially after the porkay ol are poretz geder, but we, the frum olom, are not to be the “Nachshon ben Aminodov” of tumah to jump into new cultures and styles.
If this applies to our livush and our hairstyle, how much more so to our learning in the bais hamedresh, that it should remain as true as possible to the bais hamedresh in Villna, in Lodz, Lublin, Rastov etc. The learning in the bais hamedresh should be in a way that if the Vilna Goan walked in, he would know he is in a mokom Torah. He should see chavrusas leaning over a Vilna Shas, not a Kindle or Ipad!
Next thread: Learning from Kindel or Ipad in bais medresh…is anyone bothered by this?
The whole auction/raffle is a major problem of asmachta lo kanya. It also encourages gambling and m’sachek b’kuvya.
This hanhoga nefed hatorah is the gateway to casino visits and gambling addiction.
You never see pictures of Gdolim buying a raffle ticket!
(Only badly photo-shopped pictures of them giving to “certain” kupos of aniyay tzedaka – it is davka badly photo-shopped to avoid ram’ous, trickery)).
A very wise person advised me on this issue: “Mind your own siddur”.
Davening, when we pour our hearts to Hashem, is not a time to be judgmental of others, lest c”v we be judged too.
There is a time and a place to be critical and judgmental – but davening is not that time.
On this issue, see Igros Moshe Y.D. vol 3, simon 85 that one should not vacation during this time EVEN if he has no intention to celebrate in their holidays, but vacations merely because the parents are off work and want to take a family trip, since the innocent intentions do not vitiate the issur.
See further, Netei Gavriel, addition to Hilchos Chanuka, Minhagei Nitel, ch. 4, halacha 14 and footnote 16 and 17.December 26, 2012 2:06 am at 2:06 am in reply to: Fruits and vegetables that SHOULDN'T be refrigerated #915596
EsrogDecember 25, 2012 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm in reply to: Jews protesting against a job fair! How low will they fall? #915801
“the cheftzah of Torah is connected to a gavrah of Torah” answers how I am able to enter a bais kisseh. Think about it, Rabbi Maymon surely entered a bais kisseh, yet one cannot take the sefer ha’Rambam into a bais kisseh. Why? Because Rabbi Maymon was a cheftza of Torah connected to a gavrah, while the sefer HaRambam is just a cheftzah of Torah.
crdle – yes, chabad has “some” limited value and purpose to regular frum yidden b’sha’as hadchak. Reb Schneir z”l had kovod for them.December 25, 2012 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm in reply to: Jews protesting against a job fair! How low will they fall? #915797
Velvel, before putting me away in an aron, I will answer in Yeshivish shprach, the cheftzah of Torah is connected to a gavrah of Totah. The cheftza can indeed be placed in an aron but not a gavrah.
A tie is only for ornamental purposes. A tachshit is an ornament.
A wise man once told me: Mind your own siddur.
When we pour our hearts to Hashem during davening, it is not a time to be judgmental of others, lest we be judged.December 25, 2012 3:19 am at 3:19 am in reply to: Jews protesting against a job fair! How low will they fall? #915781
sof davar, anochi ofar v’efer, I don’t care if someone mocks me or denigrates me, adarrabah, hearing my cherpah and remaining silent is a tremendous zchus that I seek to embrace.
However, when someone attacks the kovod of Torah or kovod shamayim which includes the kollel learning of thousands of avreichim, we DARE NOT remain silent. We must call out Mi L’Hashem Elay!
My words here are not for my kovod at all, only kovod HaTorah.
BTW – someone who learns in kollel is mamesh a cheftzah of Torah and should be treated like a sefer Torah.
I sometimes hesitate as I step into the washroom – how can a living sefer Torah enter a bais kisseh? It must be so that I can make a Brocha of Asher Yotzar.
Is there ANY redeeming value to AMI? I see that Satmar banned it (for other reasons). I think it lacks da’as Torah and just doesn’t belong in a frum house.
Let us be melamed zchus. There are many halachos that are matir dinim b’mokom hefsed merubah. There are other dinim that are mutur b’mokom tzar. Likewise mifakchin al tzorchei tzibur is allowed in many instances. There are MULTIPLE instances that we can be dan lkaf zchus, and I don’t mean r”l bmokom pikuach nefesh for a choleh…what would R’ Levi Yizchok Barditchiver say?
He once saw a man wearing talis and tefillin (middle of davening) while he was harnessing the horses to his wagon. R’ LY cried out to Hashem, look at your children, in the middle of their work harnessing the horses to the wagon, they interrupt to daven and pray your praises!
It is all perspective!
As one godol said: We have two eyes, one eye to look favorably at other yidden, and one eye to look critical at ourselves.
Unfortunately, we often mix them up!!
snjn – “How do you know this stuff? You were ever there?”
I had a stop over for 12 hours and was shtyging in Amsterdam with tremendous shkida and hasmodah (I almost missed my flight because I was so engrossed in the sugya).
When I learned there, I felt connected to the history of all the doros of yidden who learned in the same place. True it wasn’t the same as learning in Ir Hakodesh, there is only one Lakewood in the Universe, but it was uplifting nevertheless and made the stop over worthwhile and awesome.December 25, 2012 1:08 am at 1:08 am in reply to: Jews protesting against a job fair! How low will they fall? #915775
josh31 (I hope you have a Jewish name), you clearly despise the kollel system. The same type of people were yesteryear also against the ENTIRE full time yeshiva system, choosing a “real” education for their children and sending them to Afternoon Hebrew School after their “real” schooling. Time are a’changing my friend…the yeshiva system has been fully adopted by the frum olom, and so is the kollel system.
I am a proud member of the kollel for life system. I was zoyche to it. Sadly, you weren’t. But as a consolation prize, you can have the great zchus of supporting me and my chaverim. This will give you a purpose in life and a zchus to enter olom habah.
Instead of supporting the learners of Torah, you hate the kollel system and denigrate it. In your mind, only the few token select few should be in kollel. Following that logic, only the select few should be students in yeshiva and the rest don’t belong there!
Chazal tell us, why is it called Har Sinai, because Sina came down to the world, a hatred against those who learn Torah. While I got the Torah at Sinai, you got the sinah.
Either you are with us or against us. Seems you are not with us!December 24, 2012 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm in reply to: Jews protesting against a job fair! How low will they fall? #915772
Rabbi Nehorai said: I forsake all professions in the world and teach my son only Torah, for a person eats of the reward for learning Torah in this world and the principal remains for him in the next world. Other professions are not like this: If a person becomes sick or old or is in agony and cannot work at his occupation, he will die of starvation. The Torah, however, is not like this. It will protect him from evil when he is young and provides him with a future and hope when he is older (Babylonian Talmud, Kiddushin 82a).
It is interesting that Rabbi Nehrai is the same person as Rabbi Meir. As such, in that sugya on the SAME topic Rabbi Meir writes:
Rabbi Meir said: One should make sure to teach his son a trade which is clean and easy; then pray to He who owns all the wealth and property of the world. For there is poverty and wealth in every occupation. One’s occupation does not cause poverty, nor does it bring wealth. All is determined on the basis of one’s merit (Babylonian Talmud, Kiddushin 82a).
This is a CLEAR and OBVIOUS stira between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Nehrai who are no less than THE SAME PEOPLE!?!?!
I understand that there are TWO shitos and both are true and viable. Both are a derech, and ashrei mi who has the Toroso Umnoso and woe is the one who must rely on teva. As Chazal tell us:
‘And you will gather in your grain’ (Deuteronomy 11: 14). Why does the Torah state this? Since it says (Joshua 1: 8), ‘This book of the Torah should not leave your mouth, ‘ I might think that these words should be taken literally. That is why it says, ‘And you should gather in your grain,’ that is, pursue, in combination, with Torah a secular occupation. These are the words of Rabbi Yishmael. Rabbi Shimon b. Yochai said, Is it possible (for a person to have an occupation and still study Torah properly?) If a person plows during plowing season, plants during planting season, harvests during harvesting season, threshes during threshing season, and winnows during the windy season, what will become of the Torah? But, when Israel performs the will of the Omnipresent, their work will be done through others. As it says (Isaiah 61: 5), ‘And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks.’ And when Israel does not perform the will of the Omnipresent, their work will done by themselves, as it says, ‘And you will gather in your grain.’
Minyonim and learning is available at the various shuls and learning centers:
Van der Boechorststraat 26 Amsterdam, 1081 BT Netherlands 31-652-328-065;
Tweede Weteringdwarsstraat 53 Amsterdam, 1017 ST Netherlands 31-610-442-770;
Kehilath Jaakov Synagogue
Address: Gerrit van der Veenstr 26;
brisket – “While it’s true that we don’t give shalom and we say tzidkoscha, but it doesn’t say anything about removing begodim.”
Begodim – no, but tachshitim (jewelry, at least on women) – it DOES say! (Rashi and Ran in Nedarim daf 77).
A tie may be “like” a tachshit/jewelry.
In no way to diminish the special holiness of the time after Mincha (shalash-seudos) which is of extra high spirituality, indeed adarrabah, it might be a time to remove some of our gashmiyus extraneous indulgences in fashion.
I would appreciaye if you don’t mention my personal information.
The R”Y said many times that we FFB’s would not be able to stand up to the nisyonos and the daily complex dilemmas that a B”T must deal with. We have it “easy” – al mei menuchos, compared to the BT’s life.December 23, 2012 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm in reply to: Dreaming About Food – Whaf Are You Eating To Break Taanis? #915034
There have been postings claiming that pas shachris is not a “chiyuv” merely an “eitza tova”. The chiyuv of pas shachris is found in simon 155 s. bais. The Pri Migodim (M.Z. s”k alef) says you can be yotzeh with mizonos and a size of an egg is sufficient (I am unsure if you are yotzeh with a donut). Clearly, there is a chiyuv that needs to be fulfilled.December 23, 2012 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm in reply to: Dreaming About Food – Whaf Are You Eating To Break Taanis? #915033
On a fast day one did not eat Pas Shachris. As such, their might be a chiyuv to be mashlim eating pas shachris after the fast.
Elu v’elu – as long as it is l’shem shomayim, wear or don’t wear the tie to mincha, but don’t denigrate or mock those who act different because they have a honorable basis for their custom. Many did not the Rashi and Ran to remove jewelry for mincha, now they know.
It is “ah GITTEN erev shabbos” not “ah gutten” as in gluten.
shmoel “Is Simcha both a boys and a girls name?”
Ashkinazim use Simcha for boys while Sefardim use it for girls.
Likewise, the OP should be aware that Sefardim give children names after their living parents and are not choshesh for anything.
shmoel “Any other names that are shared by boys and girls?” There are several, such as Noah. There is also names with variations such as Boruch and Brachah, Chaya and Chayim.
Of interest to me is the historical evolution, that it is fairly “modern” the common practice to give a child more than one name, contrary to our tradition for nearly two thousand years that we only had one name (with certain exceptions like Yisro who had many names – but not used at the same time, and Moshe who had another name from his mother etc.).
A BT comes with a family who are often not BT.
Suppose the BT’s brother acts like a goy, eats like one and is marries to a man – that can create huge complexities. Do you attend the “simcha” of an intermarriage or a man “marrying” a man? DO you sit at a wedding that serves treif food, a chuppah officiated by a lady rabbi and a minister?
Likewise the BT’s parents can create a problem for the couple’s children when they do not act as a Zaidy or Bubby should act.
I agree with Health that BT’s should USUALLY marry BT’s and deal with common issues that are B”H foreign to FFB’s.
I saw an esoteric explanation (which was actually quite fascinating), based on the works of a recognized godol b’Torah, from Likkutei Sichot, vol. XXIV, pp. 1-11.
It is too long to copy here and can be accessed at http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/2237/jewish/The-Day-Before.htm
Someone named their daughters: Avigail and Avichail. Both used “Avi” for short.
In your case, the issue would arise if both mother and daughter are called Sheva for short. If that is the case, it can lead to confusion and issues of Kibud Aim. They would require a shinuy to avoid this.
A shinuy is even when there is a second name, as between mother-in-law and daughter-in-law, although the “added” name should be first. The shinuy should actually be used.
In your case, the distinguishing “prefix” is first and therefore (if the complete name is used for one of them), there is no chishash.
Health – you seemed to have guessed who I am, yes, related to RY. Now you can speal with more derech eretz.
Josh31 “A man who messes things up, always loses and feels miserable. An unfortunate. Closely related to Schlemazel and Schlemiell….If you do any learning change your posting name!!!”
This is a perfect example of the clash between Torah views and secular attitudes. Avrohom, Moshe and Dovid said about themselves that they are Dust, Earth, Ash. I am not on such a madreiga to consider myself like that, but I feel I can be called a “loser, miserable and unfortunate”. That is a level that secular thinking cannot adopt.
Come join the bais medrash and shtyg a few days and you will start thinking with daas Torah.
Josh31 – “Living in the Kodesh Hakadoshim requires requires a much higher standard… Most people should realize that their living in the Kodesh Hakadoshim will dilute the intense Kedusha, and not move there.”
Following the path of your logic you probably would advocate against most yidden moving to Eretz Hakodesh. since it would “dilute the intense kedusha”. The road you follow leads to strange destinations!
On the contrary, the kedushas hamokm uplifts the inhabitants! If someone is lacking kedusha, he should go to a mokom kodosh. In Lakewood the air is full of kedusha, the gravel is walked on by talmidei chachomim, and it is a zchus to walk in their dust. In the supermarket I am mechabed chochomim by letting them check out ahead of me. When driving and arriving at an intersection, I always let the Torah Yidden go ahead of me. And being a Torah Yid and a kollel person, I expect the same courtesy back.