Forum Replies Created
I wanted to ask exactly the same question & comment.
How many is ‘plenty’, notasheep?
I knew that the Gateshead kehilla was small, but hadn’t realized quite how small. When I checked into it recently, I was shocked to find out that it only had 450 – 600 families (according to different reports). (We, in Eretz Yisroel, have more than 2/3 of that amount living on our smallish street alone!!).
That’s what they call ‘quality over quantity’!!
Of course there’s all the bochurim & sem girls too.
Correct me if I’m wrong about the numbers.
Amazing how such a tiny kehilla has made such a mark, & is world famous.
Back to fish subject, a neighbor once asked me to look after her fish over Pesach (chol hamoed etc). I followed her instructions to the letter, but after a few days of our dedicated care, we found the fish had met an early demise… & they looked abit tougher than goldfish…
Don’t mention silverfish!
I actually first guessed a younger age, but then was worried that if I’m wrong, you’d take offense at being thought of as younger than you are, so decided to err on the side of caution…
I think you got it wrong RebYidd23. I assume he’s 20 years old & with brown eyes, not sure about the height & foot-size.
Considering for now neither Bywater Street nor America, but thanks anyway.
What’s special about that street that’s so spooky? Excuse my ignorance…..
I’m not bored as in ‘lot more to do’… We just want to be part of a warm kehilla where chinuch isn’t too challenging & not too much emphasis on gashmiyus… and and and…
Maybe da’as torah will tell us to stay put.. then we’ll have to find somewhere cooler in the HolyLand… any suggestions?
Are there any other employment opportunities for ladies in Gateshead other than to teach in school/kinder etc?
Yikes, we’re meant to be going for da’as torah & making a final decision today. Didn’t realize how nervous I was about the idea of moving until now that it might be really happening…
Anyone can make me less nervous about moving to England? What is there to look forward to as compared to here (Eretz Yisroel)?
How do you know that all of your community did nothing?
And if so, why announce that to e/o?
Not everyone wants to live in Kiryas Yoel (see moving from Monsey to Passaic thread) although it’s an amazing place for who that fits in there, & some rebbes actually do wear ties, believe it or not.
There’s all different types of people in the world with different norms. The CR is reflective of this. There’s people from all over here, some chassidish, some litvish, some sefardm, some MO & many more types, some young, some old…
Their dress, & choice of town of residence will reflect this.
Maybe you were just joking?
My daughter was just telling me something really original sounding by the Ramchal that they’re learning this year (in Israeli seminar). She says they learn it in all the (Israeli) sems, but I’d never heard of it till now.
The sefer is called: “La’yesharim tehilla”
She was telling me all about it, & it definitely was different than the standard style. I’ve not yet had a chance to see it. (She herself hasn’t yet bought one).
I don’t know what kind of thing you’re looking for.
By the way, as a ‘lurker’ for a good while, I enjoyed many of your posts writersoul.
To viyoel moishe, sorry if you took offense. You actually said yourself the same as me:
“As I’m not in the parsheh yet I was just giving my suggestion however I wouldn’t recommend relying on me”
Maybe when you hear it from someone else it sounds different than when you yourself say it.
Usually I make more effort to be polite, but here too much was at stake. If I would have just told BMbochur777 not to follow your advice, he may have listened & may have not. So I felt a need to stress that you don’t have the foggiest about the subject.
About telling Ivory to stay out of it, it doesn’t work like that in the CR. This is a forum for people to give their opinions. Read over some of the older threads & you’ll see that.
About your fighting hate with love, don’t you think you’re being rather dramatic. The concept is good, but no-one here is hating you. You need to chill abit.
Gutt voch to you & e/o in the CR.
Seforim by Rav Shimshon Pincus ztz”l of Ofakim.
Rav Chaim Freedlander’s Sifsei Chaim. But that might be similar to category of ones like Sichos Mussar, which you’re not sure is the kind of thing you’d want right now.
I also enjoyed Rabbi Tatz’s.
What’s meant by tznius issue?
As a rule, they say, don’t marry someone relying on them changing.
One can marry someone if one can accept how they are right now, & hoping that they’ll change. But one has to keep in mind that they might not change, & be okay with that possibility.
Some things might seem like a tznius issue, & are actually not, more just a different norm in the place they live.
Definitely do NOT do what viyoel moishe recommended!!! He doesn’t know what he’s talking about (sorry to sound so harsh, but needs to be said). Whatever the average bachur would do, would be blunt. It’s not your place to do that. Even once married, this is a very sensitive area. When dating, nothing to talk about!!!
Don’t know why the ‘penny didn’t drop’ earlier…
They’re a really nice family, but that doesn’t make me agree with everything he writes.
Oh wow, I’ve just glanced at a yeshivaworld news site, mentioning Rabbi Luft. I hadn’t realized how controversial his approach to this issue is. I wasn’t trying to stir things up with my last post. I was just unaware. Sorry.
Talking of leaflets & pamphlets on this topic, Rabbi Ephraim Luft of Bnei Brak (from Australia/England) is big into this subject, & I think has put out some material about it.
To Vayoel: For your information, Syag was talking to Randomex when saying “and you exclude yourself”, not to you.
crazybrit… to Britain…I mean Manchester or Gateshead, not yet sure.
zahavasdad: They all speak english. Some can read better than others. That’s what we’re beginning to work hard on between now & the move (at least 9 months).
And here was I worrying that my comment was too serious after The Goq’s humor…
Yes, newish, at least as a poster.
I’m meant to be too busy for ‘sit back & enjoy’, but with easy access to the preeminent arbiters of all perplexing Halachic & Hashkafic issues, how can I stay away…?
Being commanded by Hashem to go & fight, is a little different than getting a draft notice from a secular government (disgusting pictures & all. Yes, I had to hide away the booklet which came with my daugher’s draft notice b/c it’s graphic content was so unsavory, to put it mildly)
What we learn from Dovid Hamelech is not how to be a great warrior, but how to do ratzon Hashem. If that includes being a warrior, fine. If not, not.
Now, will come a mabul of opinions, saying that such & such a rav/posek, says it is a chiyuv/mitzva even nowadays to serve in the army, da da da….
I’ve just reread The Goq’s comment, & I see he mentions job, not army.
But still same concept… doing what Hashem wants. Working out what that is, well that’s another story. Many of the very esteemed members of the coffee room, no doubt already know what G-d’s will is. For those of us less clear, like myself, we have Gedolei Yisroel & rabbonim to advise us.
Good title Goq! Very intriguing.. & funny too!
Answering digibochur: One reason may be b/c the kind of people who’d want to live in Modiin Illit are less likely to be on this forum.
Where else is there climate similar to (or cooler than) Yerusholayim? What is Beitar like? Tel-Zion?
What kind of crowd live in the newer areas of Telz-stone, eg. Achuzat Ye’arim?
Popa, you asked how do I know it’s a myth?
I’ve thought about this, but not sure how to answer. One thing I am sure is that I’m sure.
Begins even with little things: Once went to PTA, & they report about my angelic daughter,teacher’s dream etc.. & of course add on that they can see what a good home she comes from, so well brought up, da da da. On same day, my (then) very mischievous 2 1/2 year old did some climbing, while I tried to stop him, & s/o yelled at me “You don’t teach your kids how to behave?!!”… That amazing girl & ‘terrible’ boy brought up by same parents, I got misplaced credit for 1 (she was a natural ‘gutta’) & misplaced criticism for the other (he was a ball of mischief & I was doing way more than the average mother to ‘educate’ him)….(He got past that age & became really easy B”H).
If it was only with little ones, wouldn’t be such a big deal. But I’ve seen with plenty of teenagers (B”H not my own). After parents did amazing job, giving gallons of love, gentle discipline, excellent sholom bayis loads of tefillos…& still something goes wrong eg. kid goes off derech, or eg. kid becomes mentally ill… Not enough the deep heartache? No, on top of that, they need society smugly judging them too…. “Oh, parents were too strict” “Parents were too relaxed & didn’t give enough discipline” “Something weird in that house” “That boy is violent.. his father must be like that too behind closed doors” “Kid had nervous breakdown b/c parents pressured him too much” etc etc.
Of course, if parents are doing things wrong eg. being abusive, eg. not providing enough love, eg.arguing with their spouse a lot… then yes, it impacts kids very badly. But not every case of kids having issues is b/c of parents.
Surely parents see with their own kids, how some are just born with easygoing natures, & without doing much, they’re happy & polite & easy to raise. And others are born into same home, & somehow every time there’s a fight, they’re there. Every time s/o’s crying, they’re around… always causing trouble. Parents work very hard trying to tame & gently encourage the difficult child.
(This ‘difficult child’ phenomenon isn’t something fixed. Often the one who was an angel at age 5, can be a difficult teen, & the one who wrecks everything as a 2 year old, can be a really sunny 12 year old…)
There’s genetics (the nature as opposed to nurture), friends, neighbors, teachers, rebbis, reading material, internet, & the child/teen himself who (as I already said) has his own bechira… So many factors involved.
Of course if we parents do our best, give loads of love & understanding, make our homes a very happy place, are emotionally in tune with kids, provide gentle discipline, have good sholom bayis (this also is not always in parents’ hands), daven, build the kids self esteem up, and we ourselves serve as a good example, then yes, we’re giving our kids a much better chance at turning out right…
Sorry I don’t have ways to prove my ‘myth’ theory. I’m not an official survey taker so I don’t have hard data. But I’ve met loads of people & read a lot on this topic over the last 20 years, & I’m sure of my opinion.
You, & a/o else reading this, can take it or leave it. But even those who completely disagree, would still agree that parents aren’t always the guilty party. Even Barry above (whom Popa agrees with) used the words ‘most of the time’ & not ‘all the time’. So don’t be quick to judge when you see a kid/teen/adult off the derech/mentally ill/behaving badly etc. His/her parents are in enough pain as it is, & maybe they’re the ones not in the ‘most’ category, but in the other few.
There’s plenty of parents who do lots wrong, & their kids turn out fine, or better than fine, & vice versa too.
Look how Rifka Imeinu turned out after the house of Besuel, & Rochel after the house of Lavan. Look how Yishmael came from Avrohom & Eisav came from Yitzchok… (Of course you can find meforshim who put some slight blame on parents even there in various ways, but doesn’t change the big picture). No-one has any guarantees with their kids.
Sorry, going on so long, but another thing I wanted to mention, is, it also depends where one is coming from. If we’re looking as a child at our parents, we need to have one kinds of perspective (as forgiving, understanding & appreciative as we can manage, unless they did things really wrong. We need to understand that there’s more than one way to show love, that they did their best, that we don’t know all the issues they had to grapple with…). If we’re looking at ourselves as parents, then we need to hold ourselves to a very high standard & do our best to improve, by reading, getting advice, assessing things regularly, by working hard on ourselves, etc.
May bringing up kids go easily & well for e/o, but let us not be so proud & smug as to give ourselves all the credit. Yes, we can pat ourselves on the back for trying our best & doing a good job, but know that it’s only hishtadlus. We need to thank Hashem for kids that turn out right.
Sorry such a megilla.
Haven’t followed these posts since Friday in E. Yisroel.
Barry, thanks for replying in detail. As you can already guess, I disagree with most of what you posted, although you’re entitled to your own opinion. I won’t repeat what other posters already said about eg. following our Gedolim.
Having said that, about what you posted: “Do you feel it’s ok for other people’s children to risk their lives to protect you, but your children should be immune? All our children are precious, your and other peoples.”
With that you have a point. It often bothers me. I feel awful for all the mothers worrying with their kids in danger. I don’t know what the solution is. I once thought maybe the draft could be abolished for e/o, & people would choose to enlist. Government would provide extremely good financial incentives & other perks, as in other developed countries. Problem is we’re not like other developed countries. We’re tiny & surrounded by enemies, so probably this would not be a feasible option.
We personally have been thinking of moving to chutz la’aretz for a combination of reasons. Not yet reached a final decision. If we do go, I’ll be relieved to not feel as you mentioned above (others risking their lives to protect us..), but of course we’d still feel very concerned, worried for, & appreciative of those who put their lives on the line physically, & their parents, to protect Eretz Yisroel & its people.
This whole issue is very loaded. As with most things, whatever one’s opinion, people should try to at least understand the other side’s perspective, even if not agree with it. The yeshiva world who follow the gedolim, & abhor the secular army culture, should at least appreciate (& the many I’ve discussed it with, do) those who put their lives on the line. And those who hold of drafting bochurim, should try harder, with an open mind, to understand the other side of things, even if not agree with it.
The same Hashem who told Moshe Rabbeinu what to do, when to go to war, told us to follow the gedolim of our generation. Therefore, seeming proofs from Tanach don’t do much for me. I’m not on the level to work out ratzon Hashem on my own.
Shavua tov to e/o.
What you wrote about mossdos Internet policy, is as I’d assumed.
Thanks for housing info too.
Thanks crazybrit. Yes, the numbers don’t sound exciting. But those mentioned were the starting rates. I guess many get quite abit more.
A gutt shabbos to all.
It is excellent point, Barry, as Popa said. Yes, we do have to set the right example & try to treat our own parents with respect.. be honest etc.
But the last bit about ‘most of the time…reflection of .. parents’ is not true in real life, at least IMHO.
Parents need to do their best, but at the end of the day, each child is born with their own bechira.
This idea of ‘most of the time’ reminds me of the myth in the world where every time a kid goes off the derech, it’s the parents’ fault, & every time a kid has problems, it’s the parents fault.
Yes, a parent’s input can make a huge impact on their kids’ lives, but many other factors can too.
Wishing e/o S”D with bringing their kids up.
sorry, meant ‘lehityatzev’
Maybe the same as part of the reason for the girls shidduch crisis in litvishe oilom: MONEY.
As far as I know in litvishe oilom, the norm is the girl’s side providing the $$$$. In chassidisher oilom, I think half half is the ‘rule’. I don’t know if this is true everywhere or if this is one of the main reasons or not.
To SDD, not checked what your time zone is, but I’m in the Holy-Land as I’ve mentioned on a different thread, & now it is 10:50 pm. Late enough to warrant sympathy? Actually sympathy isn’t what I’m after. No complaints. I just enjoy seeing the funny side of life. Keeps us sane…
Layla tov, or ‘tzaharayim tovim’ depending where you are…
While I’m rocking a colicky fellow with my foot (& typing here at same time), I’m trying to get some other little & not so little people to listen to me, “Darlings, please brush your teeth & go to bed”…
I say it once gently & they all listen straightaway. They answer “G’night Mom, thanks for an amazing day & the delicious supper!” & they blow me kisses & all fly into (or is it ‘onto’?) their beds & drop to sleep…That’s after tidying up their rooms & pitching in in the kitchen too.
What is all this fuss about getting kids to listen? There’s people here whose kids don’t always listen?!
Na, not really, just joking (although the fact that they’re B”H good kids is not a joke)…
Kids who ALWAYS listen to what they’re told need a psychiatric evaluation. So thank Hashem that your kids are normal.
but…, all the best to you too. Thanks for your warm wishes. Inspiring to see your ahavas ha’aretz.
Crazybrit, nothing more to add? Any helpful comments about Manchester or Gateshead?
No other Brits out there?
notasheep, thanks for all info. Even though going rates vary greatly as you said, do you know what the range is, lowest to highest, whether for ‘kinder’ or anything else.
What’s the story with housing (buying) in Gateshead? I once heard years ago about some rules there (waiting list?), but don’t remember what exactly?
In answer to ‘but…’, I hear you.
We’re really very torn, because we’re actually very very settled & happy in Eretz Yisroel, & kids are fully integrated here. Ironically enough, unlike most people, b/c of our specific circumstances (which are too complicated to go into detail about here) we’re more nervous about finances in England than if we’d stay here. We even live in a nice spacious apartment (after a series of nissim) which we own.
But we feel very strongly that we’re 1)meant to be there for our parents as they age, & give them nachas. 2) the drafting chareidim matzav is getting us very nervous (we made aliya years ago). Loads of people are in the same boat, & probably things will work out in the end without bochurim in army or prison, but I can’t handle that tension. I have almost a phobia of army police showing up at door (We’ve had them banging on looking for other boys, not our sons yet) & 3)Although E.Yisroel is the most special place, I’m a very very very hot person, & spend half the year virtually not going out, which affects loads of other things. A/C isn’t enough of a solution. I’m always covered in heat rash & feel very lethargic from it. As soon as the weather cools off, I’m a new person. (I never get cold)…Seems quite a few of my kids share my hot genes…
Also, we both feel the best place for husband to shteig would be England for a variety of reasons.
So things are not black & white, & we need da’as torah urgently. We’ll be getting to that IY”H when husband is ready, probably in few weeks.
These are only some of our considerations, but this megilla has been long enough for now.
More tips, comments welcome. Thanks.
This doesn’t answer your question, but if it’s any comfort, IMHO how much a kid does or doesn’t listen when younger, doesn’t seem to have much bearing on how they’ll turn out later on. Seemingly defiant kids can grow up to give much nachas, & kids who seem easy & obedient… well don’t forget to daven for them too.
I know someone whose kid went off the derech, & the mother says, “I never had any bother with her…I don’t know what happened. She was always such a pleasure”.
Each is born with their own nature, & we just try our best & daven.
Seems to me, that if a kid has a tendency to defiance, it means that being obedient is difficult for him/her, & parents need to learn techniques for handling the situation.
I once heard an amazing shiur from Rav Yechiel Yakovson (chinuch expert), & he said parents should try to give kids as few orders/demands as poss, but what that they do give, they should insist on (at least one thing a day). The thrust of the whole shiur was about kids needing to be obedient for themselves, for their emotional health, not as we may mistakenly think to eg. enable smooth functioning of home…
Don’t have time to post more right now.
Crazybrit, ha ha!
No, seriously, can anyone answer what I asked?
We’re more the Tashbar (or similar) type than Jewish Day. Our kids simply wouldn’t fit in to Jewish day crowd (even though I’m sure they’re all very nice families). Places like Tashbar, I think are always full up/hard to get into (although we didn’t yet try).
What about job as high-school teacher (in Gateshead)?
And what’s the going rate for teachers in either Manchester or Gateshead nowadays?
Thanks so much notasheep, & for your starter of ‘here to help’!!
Because we have more family (including my parents) in Manchester, we’d much prefer to go there. But prospect of getting kids into schools seems very daunting to us. My husband is very very unassuming & mild mannered type, so any pushing/begging would automatically land on me, & I don’t relish that job. I’ve heard a few stories of extreme difficulty in this area, eg. needing to keep kids home for months, needing to send to much less heimish school for lack of alternative etc. Are these stories the exception?
When you say ‘one which will only accept all the kids from the same family’, which did you mean? Boys? Girls? Primary (junior) school? High (Grammar) School? We wouldn’t want yiddish, they’ll have enough to cope with between ivrit & English, & we, the parents aren’t that fluent in yiddish.
My kids are about as similar/different to each other as kids in all families. Right now, all my boys are in one cheder (in Eretz Yisroel) & they’ve B”H all been fine.
I’m not worried about the Rov’s permission issue. I also never heard of it before now. But even if it is true, I’m sure we’d have no problem on that count, a normal heimishe kollel family.
One more thing. Many years ago, I used to teach in Manchester, & I don’t think I’d have a problem finding a job there if necessary. What’s the story in Gateshead? Easy to find employment?
Sorry if this has gone on too long.
Once again, thanks to anyone who can help & to notasheep.
Choref bari / Gezinter Vinter to everyone.
Thanks seventh. For now, London is not on our list of options, so no need for info on that. Nice of you to offer.
I’m interested in info on all topics that could be relevant, not only about schools. Maybe ‘notasheep’ has more to add? (If you’re around & have time)
Apart from general info on Manchester & Gatehead, what can people tell me about the transition (from E. Yisroel to chutz la’aretz) in general, tips, experience etc.
The earliest we’d think of going is a couple of months after next Pesach.
We’re thinking of moving from Eretz Yisroel to either Manchester or Gateshead, not yet decided which.
We have a lot of family in Manchester, but worried hard to get into schools there. We have quite a few kids (more than 10 bli ayin hora), so finding a suitable mossod for each one (who will take them) seems challenging.
I can’t ask family or friends for too much info because meanwhile we’re not telling anyone about our plans, so as to keep pressure off us till we’re 100% sure that we’re really going.
I’d be very interested to hear any information that anyone can tell me about both Manchester & Gateshead, comparing them in different ways.
We (husband & myself) are English, but we lived there as teens, not parents, & also a lot has changed since we left.
(At some point we’re planning to go for da’as torah, but we’re not yet up to there).
Thanks in advance.
A baby with reflux is a different case than a baby without.
If the reflux gets dealt with (how? Any tips?), then the sleeping problem should resolve, or at least improve.