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my kids really live on pure chometz. i find feeding them on pesach to be a huge challenge, they are always hungry and the things they can eat are very expensive. That is one reason why i dont “turn over” my kitchen any earlier than needed. I also hate using frozen food for a yom tov or shabbos meal (my own schtick) and have always served fresh so even if i had a pesach kitchen, and even if i was physically capable of cooking early, i dont think i could bring myself to cook and freeze yom tov foods.
The only things i have ever been able to do to ease the pressure “early” are to vacuum out all rooms besides the kitchen and living room/dining room so that i know that is “all” i have left to do. and i never gave my toddlers cheerios, i know im limited on time and energy so we were proactive in that way. we gave them sugar cubes as snacks. totally pesachdik and if it gets stuck in the couch, well, it wont be there for long.
if I could afford one expensive vacation, I would take it AFTER spending Pesach in my own home. But that’s just me….
me too!!
short hours? where does that fit in? you want to go into a job untrained, work less hours and make a parnassa, or is this just about hishtadlus?
i think the best job a man can have besides learning is staying home with the kids if the wife works. that’s a heilig, tznius environment and there’s no commute.
By the way, can everyone in the CR dispense with the anti-hotel rants? Hotels are not for everybody, both from an hashkafic and cost perspective, and that’s fine. Just please don’t rain on someone else’s simcha because it’s not your way.
i will dispense with it when i dispense with everything else that i strongly believe is chipping away at the very foundation of our connection to Hashem and the yomim tovim. Sorry. I know there are exceptions to this, as well as to everything else, and *some* exceptions are reminiscent of the old tv argument “how can you say tv is bad when the public channel has so many educational shows”.
Gd forbid I would be commenting because it “isn’t my way”. Can’t speak for others but that would never be a legitimate excuse to rant.
you have a halachik obligation to judge him favorably whether you know the details or not.
you are the one who commented on not belonging in the army and deserving court marshalling. why not let the IDF decide that too. My comment wasn’t my own, it came from a soldier. if you don’t think we should have opinoins, so be it. but why state an opinion and then tell me it isn’t my place to state one?
charlie, if he is a Jew then you defend him until you personally have enough knowledge to know otherwise. And as most court cases go, that may never be your priviledge. It may be murder, but it also may not be for me to make that call.
regarding the rest of your post, you missed the boat big time. You are correct in theory but if you are going to withhold gunfire until you can see their vest and get a good read on the upc sticker, experience has proved time and again that you will be endangering lives.
i never implied the boys are doing all the jobs that the mexicans do. i was answering to the comment that some of the jobs are less available for americans. it makes me uncomfortable explaining myself because i am just not so bigoted and there is no way to spell it out without sounding awful.
not letting other’s comments rattle me is the key. easier said then done for me. i try to take peoples words to heart and it has been known to backfire on me.
regarding my wish list – you are one smart queen. But right now i’m over sensitive about my house because 1) im listening to people tell me about their already-been-cleaned portions, that are bigger than my whole house. which is bothering me at this moment because 2) im making a simcha and cant offer housing.
so these threads will keep rattling me even while i thank Hashem for everything i have, (including other people’s leftovers), becuase the yetzer hora can’t always stop you from doing good, but he can certainly stop you from getting schar for it thru resentful thoughts. now that you reminded me that im heading in the wrong direction….im gonna put myself back together. Thanks for the chizuk!!!
don’t feel bad queen, im wrong for being jealous and every pesach i revisit this emotion. Totally my problem, not yours.
regarding the food – stressed?! the food isn’t stressing me, listening to people tell me how close it is to pesach and how far behind i am is what stresses me. my house looks like this every sunday. and after any random simcha. we have been collecting and redistributing food from others for decades, as my mother did for decades before me.
I can handle the mess and craziness (kinda fun sometimes) but before pesach people remind me how much work i have left to do and how little time i have to do it and that scares me. The joke is, i don’t approve of spring cleaning for pesach or living chametz-free for weeks. The cleaning that we do is per the guidance of Rav Schienberg zt”l and i am not envious of people who have crews and teams scrubbing their bathroom tiles and repainting their dens. I am actually sorry for them that that is what pesach has become in their lives. (i am jealous that they *have* a den, however. that and a playroom are on my wishlist)
having pans everywhere is a priviledge that Hashem has granted my family and i wouldn’t trade it for anything. i just wish people who come to pick food up wouldnt say things like, “I don’t know how you are going to make pesach”
(ps, and a bar mitzvah on chol hamoed)
Im not taking it personally, im just correcting you 🙂
they aren’t “my” boys, they are my communities boys. And I am grateful that they can feel productive and be respected as workers even tho they have the jobs that are often filled by goyim.
we have a lot of boys who are struggling in yeshiva and take on some of those jobs very pridefully. they feel productive and it people don’t look down their noses at them when they are working. not everyone everywhere is lazy.
i hate these threads. they bring me nothing but anxiety. i dont/cant stop haing chametz available more than 24 hours before pesach and i don’t have goyim to do my work. i can’t even take off of work to do it and i dont have garages or playrooms or a dishwasher so it just makes me feel bad. obviously i have much much work to do on my sameach bichelki (which, by the way, is not quite the struggle the other eleven months of the year).
ya know what i’m doing today while you clean? I am still having drop offs of everything everyone is cleaning out of there freezers and i am calling people who can use it to feed their families over the next weeks. it’s great but my house is a wreck.
My house is a wreck. Yes, and not the mid-clean up kind. My living room is filled with pans and pans of food and candies from mishloach manos that are way too expensive to throw out and can be dessert for someone’s shabbos table. My freezer and fridge are stuffed with chametzdik ice cream, roasts, chickens and meat that people are “clearing out of their freezers” to make room for their pesach stuff. pesach cleaning will be an an anxiety provoking nightmare for me for the next month until 6 days before hand when my husband and i have no more choice and spend nights cleaning everything Hashem wants clean, and only what Hashem wants clean. And we pray that it accurately syncs with our cleansing of the chametz from within us in the same way, working on priorities first and foremost even tho everyone else is having an “i just finished cooking for every meal of pesach for this year AND next year!” fest. Humiliating, but the way it needs to be.
if anyone doesnt feel like eating macaroons three weeks early, you are welcome to visit.
queen – i don’t disagree with you that there are many many mexicans who work very hard for a better life, but i think you may be a bit naive. try looking into gang issues in Chicago, and im sure in other cities as well.
i may have mentioned this before —- there is a man in our community who is not well (unmedicated schizophrenia if i am guessing correctly) and has many many OCD tendencies. He used to be a huge masmid ‘before’ so his knowledge base is vast.
After his father died he knew that if he extended Shabbos it would keep his father out of gihenom so he started keeping shabbos until the latest possible time he could figure (Tuesday) and would restart it at the earliest possible time. His father has been gone many years and I am sure is comfortably seated in gan eden but this man keeps certain halachos from wednesday to tuesday every week. such as not going anywhere where there is a video or security camera or motion sensor lighting.
when i tried hard to argue with him that his ‘rule’ has left him homeless (literally), he brought me sources upon sources and names of rebbas who kept this and that – totally out-sourced me.
we had an almost-ger at our house for many many meals over a couple years and if I remember correctly he used to come over before shabbos and make a kinyan on something i was cooking. don’t remember why at the moment….and im not sure it even makes any sense.
well usually when the coffeeroom homepage is dominated by a single signature it is someone under the age of 19. seeing your name dominate the page made me laugh.
🙂
squeak youre so cute when youre drunk :s
i felt too sick to eat last night (flu is going around Chicago) so i’m still pretty hungry.
EretzHak – NPR probably did a study saying most people cheat on their spouses, should i assume that that includes my frum family as well?
Don’t you chap that quoting NPR as a legitimate news source probably is no different than quoting your eight year old or your old neighbor down the block?
i was wondering where joseph went. im not wondering anymore.
you have an interesting frame of reference. it speaks volumes.
NPR? i’m speaking to a room full of frum people. who are you speaking to?
Does everyone here who is judging others declare all their out-of-state online purchases on their state tax return that they didn’t pay sales tax at the time of the sale? Otherwise you’re a tax cheat.
why would you assume people don’t? What kind of view of halacha do you have that you ask these tax reporting questions as if you assume people don’t do them? I don’t hear you asking if people really bother checking for bugs or for hechsherim. why would lying on tax forms be something any less expected?
EretzHaK – no, im really not interested in giving examples because that has nothing to do with this conversation. We were talking about what people do and rubashkin was brought up (as always) with comments stated in the definitive for m about what he did and what he was convicted for and what actually went on. My statement was that people should not speak up and give definitive statements about things that they do not know definitively. And before you start playing games with the word definitive, I am talking about people saying, “Well rubashkin wasn’t really blah blah blah” as opposed to saying ,”well I was under the impression that rubashkin blah blah blah”.
Syag Lchochma – I’m not following the seeming dissonance between your position on not judging Rubashkin (which I agree with) even though he’s been convicted by a non-Jewish court and your position on accepting the judgement of other yidden who are convicted by a non-Jewish court.
?
I didn’t say not to judge rubashkin, i said people shouldn’t discuss details of his case as if they had a clue what was fact. The habit of stating “facts” about subjects when in fact you are stating some rumor/opinion/speculation you heard or read somewhere is wrong.
Reagrding accepting judgement of other yidden who are convicted by a non-Jewish court – I don’t know what you are referring to. If I know someone is guilty, it wouldn’t be because they were convicted. It would be because of knowing first hand information or first hand information from a non-disputable source. I don’t remember saying otherwise.
regarding rubashkin – as has been said over and over – unless you guys were on the jury, your are spouting hearsay as if it is fact. what purpose can there be in that?
GM – its that hard for you to believe someones tax returns are clean? I feel really sorry for you.
i hear people making a call to order of everyone to not point fingers, pretend there is no chillul Hashem in the news story and assume all are innocent. here is an honest question for you (I would include myself in all but thinking the investigation itself is not a chillul Hashem)
When there is a frum victim on the other side, are you as careful about not calling them moser, liars, ostracizing their families destroying their livlihoods to prove innocense? Are we equally honest and non-judgemental for ALL yidden regardless of the allegations or standing?
I can start by answering for myself, yes.
I am hoping that the posters here are also among those who would say yes.
nisht – The key point is if they are guilty which would have to be proven. At this point, this is only an investigation. Far from being guilty.
100% agreed. I have not joined anyone here in saying that there are guilty parties in this news story. there havent even been arrests BH.
And we all know people who have pleaded guilty because it was cheaper and quicker than proving innocence.
I honestly know no such people.
Syag Lchochma – That isn’t correct. The person certainly doesn’t lose his halachic status and benefits of being considered a shomer Torah umitzvos based on an accusation.
my words were that those who are GUILTY of awful crimes… I didn’t say accused and I wasn’t talking about this news story
that pretty much solves our problem then. none of those who are actually guilty of any of these awful crimes can be considered Shomrei Torah.
so putting this particular investigation aside – and Bez”H no fault should be found anywhere among us – I am wondering about how things seem to be getting lost in the translation, as they say.
How does – “be dan l’kaf zchus” translate into “”We know he is innocent”
How does – “Daven he should not go to jail” translate into “He should suffer no consequences, natural or otherwise”
How does -“presume him innocent” translate to “destroy the witnesses and celebrate the man as a hero”
When I don’t know the facts of a case i refuse to make judgement. But refusing to make judgement does not mean mudslinging the prosecutors, victims or investigatory team (whether or not they deserve it).
as an outside example, When a frum mother was investigated for possibly facilitating her child’s illness there were rallys and destructive cries of anti semitism and calls for her release. What if it was true and she really was harming her child? does the hospitals political stand make them automatically wrong in their suspicians? do the people who cause riots and scream foul play know for a fact that this mother was really safe for her child? My question is – Why would an obligation to judge favorably and presume innocence allow for that type of behavior?
I have worked with frum patients who were victims of crimes r”l that were perpetrated by frum people r”l. NOBODY would have suspected such things and i myself was shocked. When the man’s friends rallied around him to get him off the hook, they were actually putting this patient of mine in danger. They meant well, but they were very, very wrong. is that part of our obligation?
People need to be very careful to learn the true meaning of being dan l’kaf zchus. When you don’t know the facts, be big enough to admit it and find something else to talk about.
as an aside, i didn’t even know about this story until this thread came up. When i see headlines of that sort i don’t open them. i dont want to know that the FBI is looking around anyones neighborhoods and i prefer not to know who has been arrested or put on trial here or in israel if i dont need to know. why listen and find a zchus when i can avoid reading the story altogether. so when it is up to me, that is what i do.
Because, you know, every time a Jew is in the news for bad, it MUST be truth. I mean, blood libels and everything, right?
I’m sorry copymachine, your response does not match my comments. I understand this is a painful subject for you, as for me as well, but you cannot decide i am judging people unfairly just because i am cringing at the chillul Hashem.
When one is on trial down below, he is on trial above as well. Whether or not someone is guilty is irrelevent. Completely irrelevent. I don’t want to be on trial, i don’t want klal yisroel to be on trial, and i don’t want our people dragged thru the mud EVER. My disire to be out of the news is not unreasonable or unsympathetic and i am sorry you cannot see that.
Have you never, ever in your life done something wrong?
Everyone has, and nobody appreciates others pointing it out to the entire world and judging them.
okay, i’m sorry but this is a bit misplaced. If i steal from my employer by making personal phone calls when i should be working, or i borrow something from someone and dont return it, or am hurtful to my husband, there wont be helicopters over your house. you cannot compare to my “wrongs” to the allegations that are being made right now. Gd willing nobody is guilty of it, but if anyone is, do you really think they still qualify for not having people pointing and judging? I would have to say that someone who choses to “wrong” on such a grand public level, kinda leaves that privilege of privacy behind them.
No matter what did or did not transpire, our job is not to make accusations, judments, and critical comments.
Our job is to say that hey, “that’s my brother!” and love them, even IF, and i do say IF, they did something wrong
100% correct. But that was not what you were saying before. my understanding of your original comments was that i shouldnt be flippant because some tatty may go to jail and his baby will be left without him. But that was his poor judgement, not mine.
My obligation is: to believe that anyone involved not just in money fraud but in turning the eyes of the world upon us, did not realize just how the chips would fall. They were duped by the yetzer hora and if they understood the damage and pain they would cause the world they wouldn’t have done it. and i throw on that pile the expectation, of course, that everyone involved will cooperate and not add to the chillul Hashem so we can be seen as honest and truthful emissaries of Hakodosh Baruch Hu.
May Hashem have rachmanus on us all.
mamale, i agree with you that if frum Jews are in the news we are all guilty by association. And I think that is part of why i get so frustrated when people are indeed guilty of these types of things. Didn’t they know the repercussions? Didn’t they know how many of us would suffer?
But that is where I try to be dan l’kaf zchus. I believe they did not know they were throwing us all under the bus just as I too am blind to my own wrongs.
nisht, I hope you weren’t referring to me, I surely don’t assume anyone is guilty, but i also admit i don’t assume that nobody is guilty. and maybe some of you see that as wrong, but i am not judging them, i am not speaking ill of them or wishing bad on them. i am assuming they thought they could beat the odds. However it doesn’t change the fact that I have to be judging fairly AFTER the fact. Best would be if we didn’t have our names in the news in the first place. and if we can daven that people don’t try to cover the facts with lies we wont make a second chilul Hashem on top of this one.
CM – i am very confused by your post. Of course i daven that there should be no chillul Hashem ever and that yidden should not chose to give in to momentary weaknesses that lead to drastic consequences, but your post gives the impression that there is no responsibility on the part of those who may have actually done wrong. that confuses me.
without doubt i daven that yidden shouldnt be arrested, but i am also davening that they should stop doing illegal things on such a grand scale bringing this shame upon themselves, their communities, their children who play with yours and frum Jews everywhere. are you saying that they those involved in such shameful anti halachik behaviors shouldnt get caught because then their children wont have their tatty? or are you assuming that this is all a mistake or set up?
im just confused.
CT – i remember that song as well but we sang “burning” instead of “closing”. i don’t remember my mom being too happy with us either.
rob – i won’t argue anything you say cuz there is no question Trump is so many things that aren’t good but Hilary has already killed some of our military personnel and then LIED to their mothers. To me, that pretty much rules her out as human, let alone feeling.
If you have Emunah Shleima, how can you not know it doesn’t matter?
oh Queen, I’m afraid you are missing the point. When posters find flaws in Josephs argument he either disappears, or he starts putting someone else on the defensive. Your points were clear and your stories were illustrative of a specific group, just as you stated. This is just a diversion.
I tried convincing her to make the best of the situation is not anything like saying that divorce is criminal. and it was wisely pointed out this woman had the wrong reason for wanting a divorce. and it is YOUR extrapolation, it seems, that says he was retelling this to future couples in other situations. Why didn’t he just say, “It is wrong for you to divorce. It cannot be done and I forbid you”?
It is not fair for you to take words of Gedolim, play with them, and then jump on people who disagree with your version, accusing them of disagreeing with a Gadol.
although you will decide for yourself my stand on divorce based on your twisted, disgusting and false perceptions of my views, i am not even joining that discussion, I am commenting on your unfair play in the game of conversation.
you know what, golfer, if that was directed at me than it was grossly out of place.
I was making a point that people have to stop arguing/siding with others based on how they feel about their hashgofos, and then you comment that I made your case for choosing sides based on how much i like someone?
I don’t comment based on how much i like someone, and i don’t support people based on who they attack. I comment on people’s words and that alone and believe me i have been publicly humiliated here for doing so. If someone i vehemently disagree with is correct, i support their words, if someone i always respect is rude, i say so.
I didn’t expect that from you and i sure hope i read you wrong. Ive been hurt enough by posters who cant cope with someone they “hate” being defended, to the point that i have been “accused” of agreeing with inappropriate torah views because “why else would someone defend someone if they didn’t *like* them”
what’s so sad about this is that because Joseph has some possibly valid complaints about yichusdik’s view of gedolim (I don’t keep track of these things so I have no comment on it), he and those who will join the tackle pile will totally negate the valid points that were made. This happens all the time in this forum. If someone says ANYTHING that is inappropriate, instead of addressing it and still being mature and honest enough to hear a valid point, we just throw the whole person in the blender.
It is not ad hominen to mention the history of a poster who begins controversy and then fights hard on it. Just as attitudes towards gedolim are rehashed and reminded in order to give context to comments, so is posting history.
in this case Joseph did not present an honest fight. He waffled. He is harshly accusing someone of disagreeing with a point that he paraphrased out of context, he is taking a comment a gadol made in a context and stating it as a stand alone fact. He does have a history of cut and pasting from other sites and other threads and enjoys specializing in controversial topics that can be damaging to some people’s spirituality when posted in such forums without background or face to face time. if you are lucky enough to force him in a corner he just up and disappears. Remembering this when you get engaged in these ‘discussions’ is crucial as people get hurt and damage happens.
copymachine – thank you, I have been wanting to say that for several posts already