ubiquitin

Wow Just discovered something that blew my mind a little bit
the Yiddish word נאר may not stem from the Hebrew word נער. The German word “narr” means fool, the Yiddish is likely from the German
This is a better explanation than the one I offered as to why it is spelled with an alef

Golem of Prague

N0m

1) “I understand them the same. Maybe I’m wrong. ”

If you understand Ein mevatlin issur lechatchila and davar sheysh lo matirin as the same (which I suspect you are mixing up) then you are wrong. They are completely different ideas.

2) sources for what?
If you want sources for Davar sheysh lo matirin its its own siman in Shulchn Aruch YD 102
If you want sources for Ein mevatlin issur lechatchila its a few seifim in YD 99: 5-6

Again they are completely different ideas

N0mesora

I’m not sure what you are saying

by definition a davar sheyesh lo matirin will become muttar . Thats literally the defitnion. (Its a machlokes if the heter has to happen automatically, or if a minor act like kashering will also qualify as it will become mutar)

If it won’t become muttar then it is not a Davar sheyesh lo matirin, by definition.
(Even if it will spoil before becoming muttar it isnst a davar sheyesh lo matirin accoridng to Mechaber )
Chometz shevar al hapesach will never become muttar. There is nothing yo ucan do to make it muttar, you cant sell it now cant kasher it is assur forever. IT doesnt matter that could have prevented the issur that is a not a “matirin” . Right now after Pesach is there a way to fix it? NO
Thus it is NOT a davar sheysh lo matirin, and WILL be batul in the proper circumstances.

Of course all other rules of bitul apply, cant be davar shebiminyan, berye, chaticha rui lechichabed, cant intentionally create bittul (ain mevatlin issur lechatchila). Kol kavua etc

The fact that something WAS avoidable doesn’t change anything. Issur neveila WAS avoidable by shechting. nontheless if I intentionally create neveila and it ACCIDENTLY gets mixed up with kosher meat it is batul (again barring the exceptions to bitul mentioned above).

there are a few lines of yours I dont get either. Though I agree the Distributror who didnt sell chometz cant mix up his product, but that isnt because davar sheyesh lo matirin (again there is no matir for chometz shevara PEsach) ratehr becauase ein mevatlin issur lechatchila

Also the thread is not about a distributor who refused to sell, nor an assimialted Jew who sold. Rather a Tayereh Yirei Shomayim who went to the Gadol Hador and sold through him

“The way I look at it is that people know that the Mechira is not that good and it would definitely not hurt to be machmir”

chas veshalom to say such a thing about frum yidden.
All frum yidden view the sale as perfectly good. The Chasam Sofer writes (OC 113) anyone who questions the sale should be yelled at.
Chas veshalom to say it was “questionably sold” You are besmirching Gedolei Achronim and the greatest poskim today ALL of whom orchestrate mechiras chometz,

sure there is a hanhaga not to sell chamutz gamur. But that is not the discussion at hand we are not discussing you selling your chometz.

You cannot find any teshuva backing up your mistaken shitah. True Maaseh RAv does say that the Gra did not buy chometz sold over PEsach this was addressed in my 2nd comment in this thread

” This Chumra needs to be most carefully re-evaluated.”

Always !

I reevaluated, it is appropriate here

“For some reason, when it comes to other people’s even baseless Kulas … On the other hand when someone has a not even so baseless chumra…, ”
the question though is which is this thread an example of

Though I’m not sure what you mean by “live and let live”
I’m not stopping you frm doing whatever you want . I’m sharing my thoughts on the matter same as you.

I’m skeptical that the point of this thread was an honest to goodness quest to find such a store in Lakewood. (more than 2 months after Pesach nuch der tzi !) There are much more efficient ways to find that information , ask people in your shul, ask likeminded people who share this “chumra” ask your moreh hora’ah who presumably recommended you follow this “chumra” The point of this thread was to get people excited with an exciting topic . And I delivered I too find it exciting

MTUGT

yes that was obvious from the start

UJM
among (otherwise) frum men? Yes I think so. nobody has an inborn inherent yetzer harah for specifically eishes ish, even if there are a few such people definitely less than for mishkav zachar.

Mentsch

Well put

You said it so much better than I can.

Smile
you are most welcome

“You only have a Mitzva to buy from a Yid if the Yid wants your business.”

The yid wants your business. Don’t blame tyour misplaced “chumra” on him He looks to his Rav for guidance and follows all the instructions his Rav gives him.
If thats not good enough for you as you said “The “machmirim” also have the option to choose where they want to shop.” this is true from a legal standpoint although perhaps not halachik.
you say “”However, there are some Yidden that do mind buying Chometz that was sold.””
There are all sorts of yidden some kep Shabbos some don’t
Its not too late to do teshuva become a real machmir without the quotes. buy from yidden

“If I (and my Rabbeim) disagree with getting the best tasting and cheapest snacks that still would not allow me to disrespect… ”

What? Of course it would

“When the Chachamim made the Knas they did not make an exception for if he “meant well” the halacha is that even if it was באונס the Knas would apply. ”
True

“, he will need to convince all his customers that it is Lechatchila.”
Why? He followed the practice of generations he followed his rabbanim. Why does it have to have been lekatchila?

“The way the Knas works, in reality, is that the business that keeps Chometz over Pesach will lose customers as they will go to other Yidden or to Goyim. ”

Clearly not, otherwise there would be no need for this thread

“The better the heter is, the fewer customers will be lost.”
In thst case mechiras chometz is rock solid!

Of course we don t need to rely on this capitalistic lomdus. We rely on gedolei acharonim such as the chasam sofer who told us the sale is Rock solid and criticized those who imply otherwise

Rocky
disagree that its an unnecessary expense.

Your comment indicates a lack of understanding of point of kiddush. The point isnt to “help them make it home” anor ” for their shabbos seudah.”
The point is to instill a sense of camaraderie of chavershaft among the kehillah. Especially if yo u discourage talking in shul their isn’t much time for socializing which is vital to humans.

Of course one can disagree as to whether this is a worthwhile endeavor, but if you didn’t even understand the purpose I’m not sure you’d have much more to add

Smiler

“I personally try to buy from Yidden even when the quality and price are worse, but if they refuse to supply the Chumras that I want, that’s when I stop feeling obligated to patronize them”

I don’t get this
So you’re a meikel stam to make yourself feel good. Isn’t that worse than a meikel who is driven by yetzer harah for money?

Nom

Of the ten possible reasons bitul wouldnt apply you gave an incorrect one

chametz shevar al Hapesach is NOT a davar sheyesh lo matirin. IT will never become mutar. In fact if you mixed up (after purchasing so no longer kavua) chometz shevar al hapesch it WOULD be batul (if not davar shebeminyan, chatichha arui lhiskabed etc)

Davar sheyesh lo matirin doesnt apply if the matir is retroactive. We dont say neveila is davar sheyesh lo matirin becasue you could have shechted it.

Avira

“The issue the Gaon had was with selling it while it remains in the jews house/store.”

I’m not sure how you know that. As Far as I know the Gra did not write anywhere opposing the sale, including in his comments to Shulchan Aruch (448:3) where sale is mentioned.
Masseh Rav does mention that he avoided buying from Chometz that had been sold, thoughg it does not say why.

Do you have a source indicating that he was “very, very against it.”?

(To be clear I’m not saying he wasnt agaisnt it, (though “very very” seems like a stretch) I am saying that just becasue he was agasint it does not mean this is something that people should follow today for all the reasons I shared from Rabbi Reisman in previous post)

smiler

It is hard to imagine how such a store could exist .
Please do teshuva for throwing out perfectly fine food purchased from ehrliche people who follow halacha

125

You are wrong

The Ramabam says His Sefer is synopsis of Torah Shebal peh.

It is called “mishne Torah” because it is second to the Torah is Torah Shebichsav which is Tanach

in the original:
לפיכך קראתי שם חיבור זה משנה תורה. לפי שאדם קורא בתורה שבכתב תחלה ואחר כך קורא בזה ויודע ממנו תורה שבעל פה כולה ואינו צריך לקרות ספר אחר ביניהם

YW fan

there are many minhagim with sefira. some keep from begginign until LAg baomer some until Lad Ba’aomer some from Rosh chodesh until then end etc.

(as an aside “listening to music” is a later addition to the minhag as well though dancing is brought earlier so your point stands)

Similarly there are many minhagim with Lag Baomer. According to the Mechaber there is no dancing at all not by day nor night. According to the Mishna berura’s understanding of the Remah you are right about Lag baomer night. But not everyone agrees (MB also brings cholkim that haircuts are allowed at night, no reason for haircuts to be different than music)

in short all of sefira is based on minhagim, and there are different minhagim

“Neville: Every Ben Torah has a little bit Joseph in them.”

Thats true but our avoda is to be kovesh our Joseph and stand up for whats right and emes

LF
“Way back those days (40+) no one had any festivities besides Stolin and maybe some other very few.”

I dont remember a fire in the 90’s. They had music and dancing yes. Are you sure they had a fire 40 years ago?

“He is counted twice since his two terms were non-consecutive.”

I never understood that:
Counting Presidents can be done by counting people in which case Biden is the 45th person to serve as President
If we count terms. Then Washington was President twice, he won 1788, 1792 Adams was the third president Jefferson the 4th and 5th etc .
Why do terms matter only when non-consecutive. Either count people or terms

“If they decide the case under the Civil Rights Act…”

right, and that was exactly the question the court was asked: “Whether the court should disapprove the more-than-de-minimis-cost test for refusing religious accommodations under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act ….”

now of course the court is required to specificly address that anc could just ignore that aspect. But it is deffinitly to premature to conclude, as you did, that “A precedent would not be that significant”

“may” not be that significant, yes its possible that it may not. “Would not” No way to determine at thsi time

Well put Yserbius

PEMDAS isn’t optional it is a rule like + means addition

using / for division is ambiguous . It would be like saying solve this equation

40 + 2O – 0 x O = ?
where O = 2

while solving it here is doable, imagine it handwritten

“But my statement is fact, each new supreme court ruling further entrenches it,”

absolutely. It is a fact Ive said many times. no argument at all
but the same way courts can entrench it, courts can dislodge it.

“As for my practical answer i would have left it on the books.”
thanks for the reply
Kudos on the consistency

Kriger
“I live in the town of Beitar, Israel.”
guns are very regulated in Israel. If we enacted their regulation Id be fine with that.

“America feast on violence,”
this isnt the answer. Europeans have the same violence Japanese movies have more They simply don’t have the same number of mass shootings as we do. This theory doesnt hold water

mentsch

would you accept that argument in any other realm?

Eg making abortion illegal would just make criminals out of all the people who will continue to get abortions therefore they shouldn’t be banned? as history has shown, will they be more likely to ignore the govt, and all you have accomplished is making millions of citizens into criminals

Dr P
” it seems as if different textbooks teach the order of operations differently.”

This hasnt been my experience. And today although people calim there are nobody has ever been able to identify these alleged textbooks (although IVe asked)
I think people (myself included) forget the order of operations (most of us havent done these kind of problems in decades) So we get the question wrong. Then when reminded we feel silly that we got an elemntray school problem wrong.
Instead of saying “” wow cant beleive I forgot the rule” The responses are “There must be other rules” “the rules are made up its up to each person if they should follow them ” etc (these arent verbatim quotes from this thread)

“(I can not recall seeing a textbook that gave an order of operation that would yield a number other than 1 but from Google searches it seems like there are.)”

I could not find any such rule for order of operations. (a few posters said “PEMDAS is a convention, not a hard and fast rule.” and “Following the system where multiplication is deemed a higher order operation than division:” These are verbatim quotes. and not based on any thing real

BUT

however I did find some debate over Flaming’s Pitfal #2 with some fellow (who seemed well reaosned) arguing that 8÷2(4) was not the same as 8÷2×4 (which would absolutly be 16) rather that 2(4) was one unit equaling 8 (thus leaving 8÷8 = 1) not two seperate units 2×4 (which would require first dividng the 8 by 2)

For interesting sources see Slate’s “What Is the Answer to That Stupid Math Problem on Facebook?
And why are people so riled up about it?” (3/12/13) where he argues (wrongly in my opinion) “none is incorrect.” the thrust of the article is that histoically there are different ocnventions, and sure in 1919 a different answer may have been correct but that has no bearing on today.