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UJM
Its been a while
Yes BH success
did you ever get the present I sent you years back? It was a Yoreh deah chelek beis .
Hope your using itRE
“We add 14 from 2100”
Yes my #5 is wrong I tried to repost without it but both went up
“So let’s use the rule that it is Dec 4th. except before a leap year when it is Dec 5th.”
Yep that is the rule.
AaQ I don’t understand .
The calculation doesn’t work because it isn’t the way to calculate.
It’s 60 days from tekufas Tishrei using Tekufas Shmuel. Not 61 days from the autumnal equinox. Yes they often overlap but shpukdnt expect them to be the same .
Tekufas Shmuel is known to be flawed There is a more accurate tekufa of Rav Ada, bit we font use it for this because too complicated (Chazon Ish says this)I just realized a mistake “I made
I got the dates from “timeanddate . com”The times given are Coordinated universal time which is 5 hours ahead of New York time.
Thus for New york the above dates are not accurate
Some chnage to become correct for youfor example last year 2022, equinox was Sep 23 01:03 UTC (which results in incorrect Dec 5th) but in NY this was Sep 22 9:03 PM (which results in correct Dec 4th)
Nonethless my point still stands:
1) Your rule is limited to certian time zones, making it not such a good rule, in London my list above with the 14% error rate is correct.
2) Correcting for time difference makes some of your years more correct (eg 2022 becomes right)
Others become wrong, for example 2039 in London your system works : Equinox will be Sep 23 03:49 UTC which results in Dec 5th according to both your system and the halachic one. but in NY the Equinox will be few hours earlier (local time) Sep 22 11:48 PM which would lead to Dec 4 start date using your system while Dec 5th using the halachic system (though to be fair it is more accurate in NY than in London )3) If you use it as a cute trick that usually works fine. But this is a-halachic in Halacha when counting days we always (almost?) count the first day as day 1. If you say ignore that and just add 60 it works fine. but to make it sound like this is how the cheshbon works when it is not true makes me squeamish.
4) You say “I am trying to find an easy way of calculating.”
This is the part I really don’t get, it is much easier to check your siddur and see “Start saying Vesein Tal umatar on Dec 4t hat MAariv unless it is before a leap year in whcih case it is Dec 5th” or google “When do we start” seems os much easier than relying on your method although it usually works.
Who is this easy calculation for?
for those who want to understand how Dec 4th was chosen and why this year its Dec 5th give them the correct answer. Who gains from your incorrect sytem (although it usually works)?5) Your system will fall apart in 2100
I just realized a mistake “I made
I got the dates from “timeanddate . com”The times given are Coordinated universal time which is 5 hours ahead of New York time.
Thus for New york the above dates are not accurate
Some chnage to become correct for youfor example last year 2022, equinox was Sep 23 01:03 UTC (which results in incorrect Dec 5th) but in NY this was Sep 22 9:03 PM (which results in correct Dec 4th)
Nonethless my point still stands:
1) Your rule is limited to certian time zones, making it not such a good rule, in London my list above with the 14% error rate is correct.
2) Correcting for time difference makes some of your years more correct (eg 2022 becomes right)
Others become wrong, for example 2039 in London your system works : Equinox will be Sep 23 03:49 UTC which results in Dec 5th according to both your system and the halachic one. but in NY the Equinox will be few hours earlier (local time) Sep 22 11:48 PM which would lead to Dec 4 start date using your system while Dec 5th using the halachic system (though to be fair it is more accurate in NY than in London )3) If you use it as a cute trick that usually works fine. But this is a-halachic in Halacha when counting days we always (almost?) count the first day as day 1. If you say ignore that and just add 60 it works fine. but to make it sound like this is how the cheshbon works when it is not true makes me squeamish.
4) You say “I am trying to find an easy way of calculating.”
This is the part I really don’t get, it is much easier to check your siddur and see “Start saying Vesein Tal umatar on Dec 4t hat MAariv unless it is before a leap year in whcih case it is Dec 5th” or google “When do we start” seems os much easier than relying on your method although it usually works.
Who is this easy calculation for?
for those who want to understand how Dec 4th was chosen and why this year its Dec 5th give them the correct answer. Who gains from your incorrect system (although it usually works)?For fun I redidi it using NEw York
Equinox – Correct date – your date – match?
2000 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2001 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2002 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2003 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2004 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2005 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2006 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2007 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2008 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2009 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2010 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 5 Y
2011 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2012 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2013 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2014 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 5 Y
2015 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2016 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2017 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2018 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 5 Y
2019 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2020 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2021 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2022 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 5 Y
2023 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2024 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2025 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2026 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 5 Y
2027 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2028 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2029 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2030 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2031 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2032 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2033 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2034 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2035 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2036 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2037 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2038 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2039 Sep 22 Dec 5 Dec 5 N
2040 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2041 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2042 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2043 Sep 22 Dec 5 Dec 5 N
2044 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2045 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2046 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2047 Sep 22 Dec 5 Dec 5 N
2048 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2049 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 YThe accuracy of your system goes up slightly it is 88% accurate. wrong only 6/50 times
I randomly grabbed the first 50 years of this century
Here are the dates of the Autumnal equinox, followed by the correct date for start of vesein tal umatar (some of these are Friday night when of course start is delayed for an unrelated reason)
Followed by the start date using your system followed by a Y if the y match and N if they don’t.They are aligned 43/50 which is 86% pretty good but as a “rule” to keep sharing when it is wrong 14% of the tme I think you should stop sharing your system
Equinox – Correct date – your date – match?
2000 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2001 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2002 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2003 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2004 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2005 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2006 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2007 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2008 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2009 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2010 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2011 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2012 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2013 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2014 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2015 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2016 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2017 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2018 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2019 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2020 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2021 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2022 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2023 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2024 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2025 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2026 Sep 23 Dec 4 Dec 5 N
2027 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2028 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2029 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2030 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2031 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2032 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2033 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2034 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2035 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2036 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2037 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2038 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2039 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2040 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2041 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2042 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2043 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2044 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2045 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2046 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2047 Sep 23 Dec 5 Dec 5 Y
2048 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y
2049 Sep 22 Dec 4 Dec 4 Y(I did this by hand so there might be a typo or error or 2, though doesnt change my overall point)
RE it is against an explicit Remah
See OC 117:1
Mechaber says we say it on the 60th day after the Tekufa
The Remah says the day of the tekufa is included.
The Mishna Berura points out that there is always 2 days between the day of the tekufa and the day we say vesein tal umatar. His example is if the Tekufa was Sunday then we start vesein tal umatar at Maariv of yom revviii (Ie Tuesday night). This is not wah twe did according to your incorrect caclulation. Sept 23 was Shabbos, if this was the tekufa we would have started Monday nightDo you not remeber discussing this last year? and the year before? and before?
soem of the comments are in this threadRE
As in every year past your calculation is wrong.R Aron Feldman shlita said bal habatim (as opposed to yeshiva leit) SHOULD go
Its hard to imagine the how mcuh worse current war without the Iron dome, that Obama had requested funding for
Obama has likely saved more Jewish lives than anyone in history since Mordechai and Esther. Thank you Hashem for sending us this shliachthe Ribono shel Olam is a Democrat
He is the Malbish arumim, someich noflim, zokef kifufim.try to emulate the Ribono shel Olam, its a mitzva Deoraysa Veholachta bidrachav. Mah hu Rachum af ata rachum
““Conferring with a Torah expert on matters that do not relate to halacha or hashkafa” An example would be asking a talmid chacham business advice.
Does anyone like that?”
Not really because it is lacking some critical elements:
1) Is this a form of Ruach Hakodesh? or Is it that learnign torah sharpens your mind so you can grasp things quickly and covers many facets of life so have a grasp of Human relationships, business etc? Or something in between?
Meaning the idea that if you explain say the pros and cons of different shiduchim to a Rebbe who knows you well, it is very logical that he can help guide you. I don’t think this is particularly controversial and wouldnt really promt arguemtns over whther here is such a thing. Just like your accountant can help guide you which medical treatment makes more financial sense for you.
That was my trouble with the OP’s example. R’ Yochanan met R’ Zeira he met his own daughter. I dont understand why his suggesting a shidduch shows somesort of special power gained through Torah?2)assuming there is such a thing as Daas torah is is there some sort of imperative to listen.
These points have been debated ad nasueum, and dont really interest me (any more).
Im caught up on the specific example providedAAQ
“here r Yohanan is the godol hador and he tells you this is a good shidduch, would you not listen?! and to add to that – his own daughter …”
So all shadchanim who propose a shidduch have daas Torah? Is it only if they propose a shiduch to their daughter?
I don’t get itHe saw a talmid chacham, so he wanted him as a son in law. what does that have to do wit hdaas Torah?
I don’t understand.
Maybe I’m not sure what daas Torah is, suggesting a shiduch is daas Torah?The R’ Yitzchok he mentions long predates Rashi’s father
“It is typical for a goverment and its leader to resign, voluntarily or involuntarily, when a horrible attack occurs on that government’s watch. … he must be replaced ASAP. Just to be clear, I am not a resident of Israel or eligible to vote there.”
That is not typical at all. In fact it sounds crazy reckless and dangerous
AFTER things quiet down and appropriate investigations are launched then if in fact blame lies with him and government (and very well might ) then he should resign.
It is nuts to suggest he resign now
Yom Kippur war occurred in October 1973 . Golda MEir did not resign until April 74
Sam
I love letzanus as muc has the next person, (maybe not so much Erev Rosh Hashana)
But even when trying to be funny, you have to be careful that tyour posts don’t enter kefira territory“Nissan was the first month like it says directly in the Torah then:..”
what do you mean “was”? the Tiorah never changes R”l. Nissan was and is the first month. This has nothing to with when the year starts.
“a)the new year would start from 1 Nissan changing over to the new year and not 6 months ”
This is incorrect. Look at the gemara in the begining of Rosh Hashana the gemara goes different Rosh hashanas. “Hachodesh Harishion” Is Nissan period. IT doesnt change depedning on wehther you are talking about new year for Kings, baal teacher etc.
I’ll give you a mashal if you find this confusing. Throughout the country schools recently began. It is the beginning of the school year. Yet when teachers wrote the date today they wrote 9/14. does that mean its the 9th month of the school year? Of course not. The first month of the school year is September the ninth month. Just becasue a new year starts doesnt mean the month count resets. They don’t label September 14th as 1/14 becasue it is the first month of the school year. The counting of months and the start of a year have notign to do with each other
L’havdil soon we begin a new year. The new year begins with Tishrei the 7th month, “Hachodesh hashevii” as we will be laining in maftir on R”H, Y”K and throughout sukkos
“Av is 11 אלול is 12 & תשרי is 1, how does that grab you? How does that shock you?”
It shocks me that a ostensibly frum person can no so little about the Jewish calendar and possibly be over an aseh
“Hachodesh hazeh lachem roch chadashim” Nisan is the first month. Av is the fifth (“Tzom hachamishi”) not the 11th. Tishrei is not the first month, calling it the first month is at best wrong, and possibly a bitel aseh (according to the Ramban)
yungerman
So true we all know how muhc Hshem hates abbrevitions and that is why Misah exists. IF we ju
Please help end the gezeira of misa, avoid writing ZT”L
Maybe if we just take a few seconds extra to give the proper respect for tzaddikim who devoted their entire life to Torah and klal yisroel-by writing it in full instead of just in short ZT”L-then Hashem will stop taking away these holy tzaddikim from us.
Its a power that you get if bitten by a radioactive Birchas Shmuel
Sorry about that Avram not Avira
Huju
no the comments state that “Jew” has taken on a negative meaning that “Jewish” has not.
Would you agree that when used as an attributive form of a noun * as in “Jew Lawyer” or “jew bakery” in Avira’s example it is probably being used pejoratively?
to play it safe some use “Jewish” all the time, since it doesnt have that same connotation Jewish Lawyer, Jewish Bakery
(note this is not inherently grammatically incorrect, nouns can be used to modify other nouns eg business meeting, research paper you don’t NEED to use an adjective)
I don;t feel strongly either way
but the concern of those gentiles makes senseUnfortunately Jew has taken on some negative meanings.
There have been a couple such stories involving Google search over the yearsfor example in Dec 2022 the first hit on Google for “Jew” was the definition: “”Bargain with someone in a miserly or petty way.”
this was the first resultA while ago the leading results included antisemitic websites such as Jew Watch.
At the time it was noted that “Jewish” did not result in the same offensive resultsAs a result of thsi “defitnion of Jew and as a result of Antisemites choosing the term Jew as the subject of their hate (often with a snarl) “polite” Goyim have shifted towards using Jewish PErson.
Many poskim hold their is no issur to steal from bears
Goldilocks
thanks that makes sense
I didn’t consider that.AAQ
I don;t get these type of posts.
You ask “So, why did he greet this way? ” and come up with some made up explanation.
The Gemara says how he knew he was a King/emperor “IF you were not a king Yerushalyim would not be given to you as the passuk says…”
Now I understand someone who doesn’t believe the Gemara R”L * But I find it odd when people believe the story took place but not the way it is told.
why are you willing to accept that R’ Yochanana ben Zakai greeted him has a Ceaser, but not that he knew this based on a passuk (as the Gemara says)?(To be clear before I get attacked, I don’t agree with such a person but I understand someone who doesn’t view a the story as historical, certainly not all the details)
Baltimore
“Part of tort reform is doing away with many clasa actions… ”
That isnt one of the reforms that ujm mentioned . what do you mean it is “part of tort reform” IT isnt part of his suggested reforms
UJM
I agree completely
(not sure if that worries you or maybe even a broken clock…)Interesting
this has not been my experience at allI dont think IVe ever not seen group ask if one was a kohein (then defer to him to lead) or if for whatever reason someone else is honored they ALWAYS say “Bershus kohein/kohanim (sometimes without actually asking reshus)
I don’t think IVe ever NOT seen it done
Wow Just discovered something that blew my mind a little bit
the Yiddish word נאר may not stem from the Hebrew word נער. The German word “narr” means fool, the Yiddish is likely from the German
This is a better explanation than the one I offered as to why it is spelled with an alefWhen I was much younger, I was frum, I had of course heard of the Golem. I was travelling some of Europe and went to visit a friend near Prague. I got locked out of the room where I was staying so I looked for a place to sleep. Earlier that day I had gone to see the old Shul and the Maharal’s kever. I noticed that On the outside of the Shul there is another door, and two windows set far apart. But the door is very high up and there is on direct way to reach it. There are metal rungs in the wall below the door, but even those rungs begin about 4m from the ground. Anyway, I came back that night with a ladder from the caretaker. I used it to reach the rungs and climb up. That door was not locked so I went in locked it so no one should come bother me and went to sleep , A few hours later there was some banging on the window. I CLEARLY saw a samaller human figure looking through the window and shining his flashlight (torch in UK) then quickly climb down ta ladder Isaw another figure at the bottom holding a ladder But I am positive what I saw.
N0m
I reread the thread
In your first comment you wrote
“We don’t ever use bitul after we intentionally created an issur. דבר שיש לו מתירים”You mixed up two things
As smiler pointed out (I missed his comment) “He meant אין מבטלין איסור לכתחילה”(That said even if you had it right it still wouldnt ” suffice to eradicate every possible retort.” we can quibble on whther it is a case of ein mevatlin (unlike davar sheyesh lo matirin which it certainly isnt) though again it ptrobably wouldnt be batul for toehr reason, Kal kavua and davar shebeminyan)
N0m
1) “I understand them the same. Maybe I’m wrong. ”
If you understand Ein mevatlin issur lechatchila and davar sheysh lo matirin as the same (which I suspect you are mixing up) then you are wrong. They are completely different ideas.
2) sources for what?
If you want sources for Davar sheysh lo matirin its its own siman in Shulchn Aruch YD 102
If you want sources for Ein mevatlin issur lechatchila its a few seifim in YD 99: 5-6Again they are completely different ideas
N0M
“But If it was sold, what could use bittul? It’s all heter.”
THe OP doesnt believe the sale is valid, he views sold chometz as issur
2 more points
1) “I understand that it needs to be accidental because rov is only a matir of a mixture.”no it needs to be accidental, becasue ein mevatlin issur lechatchila. You can’t create a situation of bitul. This has nothing to do with davar sheyesh lo matirin
2) “The concept yesh lo matirin means that rov can be matir when the only problem is the issur within the mixture.”
Thats the Ran’s understanding of Davar sheyeh lo matirin.
The more common understanding is that of Rashi, namely why eat it beissur and rely on bitul if you can just wait (or do a minor act) and eat it beheter.
In this case I don’t think the OP’s case is davar sheysh lo matirin. according to either approach a. Chometz sheavar PEsach is issur (again he views sold chometz as issur) so it should be batul in non-chometz shevar al Hapeshac which is heter.
b. Can’t say wait until its heter becasue chometz shear al Hapesach will never ever become heter.N0mesora
I’m not sure what you are saying
by definition a davar sheyesh lo matirin will become muttar . Thats literally the defitnion. (Its a machlokes if the heter has to happen automatically, or if a minor act like kashering will also qualify as it will become mutar)
If it won’t become muttar then it is not a Davar sheyesh lo matirin, by definition.
(Even if it will spoil before becoming muttar it isnst a davar sheyesh lo matirin accoridng to Mechaber )
Chometz shevar al hapesach will never become muttar. There is nothing yo ucan do to make it muttar, you cant sell it now cant kasher it is assur forever. IT doesnt matter that could have prevented the issur that is a not a “matirin” . Right now after Pesach is there a way to fix it? NO
Thus it is NOT a davar sheysh lo matirin, and WILL be batul in the proper circumstances.Of course all other rules of bitul apply, cant be davar shebiminyan, berye, chaticha rui lechichabed, cant intentionally create bittul (ain mevatlin issur lechatchila). Kol kavua etc
The fact that something WAS avoidable doesn’t change anything. Issur neveila WAS avoidable by shechting. nontheless if I intentionally create neveila and it ACCIDENTLY gets mixed up with kosher meat it is batul (again barring the exceptions to bitul mentioned above).
there are a few lines of yours I dont get either. Though I agree the Distributror who didnt sell chometz cant mix up his product, but that isnt because davar sheyesh lo matirin (again there is no matir for chometz shevara PEsach) ratehr becauase ein mevatlin issur lechatchila
Also the thread is not about a distributor who refused to sell, nor an assimialted Jew who sold. Rather a Tayereh Yirei Shomayim who went to the Gadol Hador and sold through him
Yep
and akuperma’s comment was wrong. They did not rule on narrow federal government grounds“The way I look at it is that people know that the Mechira is not that good and it would definitely not hurt to be machmir”
chas veshalom to say such a thing about frum yidden.
All frum yidden view the sale as perfectly good. The Chasam Sofer writes (OC 113) anyone who questions the sale should be yelled at.
Chas veshalom to say it was “questionably sold” You are besmirching Gedolei Achronim and the greatest poskim today ALL of whom orchestrate mechiras chometz,sure there is a hanhaga not to sell chamutz gamur. But that is not the discussion at hand we are not discussing you selling your chometz.
You cannot find any teshuva backing up your mistaken shitah. True Maaseh RAv does say that the Gra did not buy chometz sold over PEsach this was addressed in my 2nd comment in this thread
“Speak to Rabbonim in the parsha and they can sadly inform you what’s going on.”
I have, thats why I’m convinced such a support system is necessary.
“Most otherwise frum men with SSA do not engage in mishkov zochor. And, likewise, most otherwise frum men with a taaiva for eishes ish do not engage in that.”
Exactly! nailed it
thats why the two aren’t comparable. The former struggle/have issues whether they engage or not
the latter not so much.“But this Chazal isn’t even necessary to consider to accept my preceding points.”
Ive already accepted your point
“but ok, I’m convinced if they do they do start the club”
No need to convince me further.If you think its needed go for it. Start it
” This Chumra needs to be most carefully re-evaluated.”
Always !
I reevaluated, it is appropriate here
“For some reason, when it comes to other people’s even baseless Kulas … On the other hand when someone has a not even so baseless chumra…, ”
the question though is which is this thread an example ofThough I’m not sure what you mean by “live and let live”
I’m not stopping you frm doing whatever you want . I’m sharing my thoughts on the matter same as you.I’m skeptical that the point of this thread was an honest to goodness quest to find such a store in Lakewood. (more than 2 months after Pesach nuch der tzi !) There are much more efficient ways to find that information , ask people in your shul, ask likeminded people who share this “chumra” ask your moreh hora’ah who presumably recommended you follow this “chumra” The point of this thread was to get people excited with an exciting topic . And I delivered I too find it exciting
CA
.. then you reevlute your “chumra” to see if it makes sense
A chumra has to make sense
If I have a “chumra” I dont eat from a fridge that was running on Shabbos. I am very machmir on Lo sivaru eish I want the fridge powered down. Therefore I only buy refrigerated items from Goyim
You would most likely say that chumra was inappropriate, doesn’t make mush sense and is borderline Tzedoki in nature.I can call it a chumra from today until tomorrow that doesn’t make it correct.
Using this “chumra” to then justify not buying from yidden or to justify baal taschis in throwing out perfectly kosher fine food makes it even worseMTUGT
yes that was obvious from the start
UJM
among (otherwise) frum men? Yes I think so. nobody has an inborn inherent yetzer harah for specifically eishes ish, even if there are a few such people definitely less than for mishkav zachar.ujm
I doubt thats true (wouldn’t be the first tiem you made something up in this thread alone)
but ok, I’m convinced if they do they do start the clubMentsch
Well put
You said it so much better than I can.
ujm
That taiva has an outlet (chulin 109b)
Smile
you are most welcome“You only have a Mitzva to buy from a Yid if the Yid wants your business.”
The yid wants your business. Don’t blame tyour misplaced “chumra” on him He looks to his Rav for guidance and follows all the instructions his Rav gives him.
If thats not good enough for you as you said “The “machmirim” also have the option to choose where they want to shop.” this is true from a legal standpoint although perhaps not halachik.
you say “”However, there are some Yidden that do mind buying Chometz that was sold.””
There are all sorts of yidden some kep Shabbos some don’t
Its not too late to do teshuva become a real machmir without the quotes. buy from yiddenujm
lol your’e wrong take was wrong then it remains wrong today.
NC
“Has there been any organized recognition of the fact that this is likely worse than anything the Open Orthodoxy ever did? ”
Nopenot sure why you limit it to 2 things neither of which is correct
The correct thing is it simply is not an condoning any issurim. You can say it again and again it won’t suddenly become true“If I (and my Rabbeim) disagree with getting the best tasting and cheapest snacks that still would not allow me to disrespect… ”
What? Of course it would
“When the Chachamim made the Knas they did not make an exception for if he “meant well” the halacha is that even if it was באונס the Knas would apply. ”
True“, he will need to convince all his customers that it is Lechatchila.”
Why? He followed the practice of generations he followed his rabbanim. Why does it have to have been lekatchila?“The way the Knas works, in reality, is that the business that keeps Chometz over Pesach will lose customers as they will go to other Yidden or to Goyim. ”
Clearly not, otherwise there would be no need for this thread
“The better the heter is, the fewer customers will be lost.”
In thst case mechiras chometz is rock solid!Of course we don t need to rely on this capitalistic lomdus. We rely on gedolei acharonim such as the chasam sofer who told us the sale is Rock solid and criticized those who imply otherwise
Smile
#1
agreed completely#2
I (and my Rabbeim) disagree that this is improved kashrus. In which case the “chumra” is inappropriate.As you put it so well “or intentionally trying to circumvent the Knas/boycot that the Chachamim made to deter them from avoiding proper biur chometz” What knas? he’s a frum guy he went to his Rav. You name him I’m sure he sells chometz. The store owner listens to Rav Forcheimer, Rav Miller Rav Heineman or whomever sold his chometz , why should he get a knas?
Rocky
disagree that its an unnecessary expense.Your comment indicates a lack of understanding of point of kiddush. The point isnt to “help them make it home” anor ” for their shabbos seudah.”
The point is to instill a sense of camaraderie of chavershaft among the kehillah. Especially if yo u discourage talking in shul their isn’t much time for socializing which is vital to humans.Of course one can disagree as to whether this is a worthwhile endeavor, but if you didn’t even understand the purpose I’m not sure you’d have much more to add