Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
daniella, is that the case even if upon entering the dry cleaners you sign a waiver indicating that you understand that the dry cleaners will not perform cpr in the event of an arrest, but would merely call 911?
2scents, Im not sure what you mean. There is usually no discernible difference between a patient in whom “death is obvious” and a patient who suffered a recent arrest.
Do you mean after time has passed?
At any rate of the top of my head a patient in who cardiac arrest occured as a result of refractory hypotension or in a patient in whom cpr has been ineffective. Or if the home’s policy is not to perform CPR and residents are aware of this and agree to it.
got it daniella so to sum up the main problem you have with the nurse is not handing the phone to somebody else, I guess that makes sense.
The patient may not have had a formal DNR that is irrelevant if my point #2 above is correct. Her job as I understand it is to call 911 and NOT to do cpr. Though It is hard to justify her refusal to hand off the phone.
2scents, you say “if you would attend geriatric emergency you will unfortunately find a lot of children that would be OK that their elderly parents die” i have attended several, I have never seen that (though i have no doubt it ocurs frequently) What I have seen several times is people pounding on a clearly hopeless pateints chest, bruising and breaking ribs in the process, when all are aware and all stattics show that the attempt was futile just to make the family feel good. There is no question in my mind that this is nivul hames. This is beside the point though.
Daniella, The conversation is going in circles allow me to break it down and please let me know where I have it wrong:
1) There are some situations where cpr is innapropriate. In those situations even someone trained in Cpr would be justified in withholding cpr (and perhaps even be wrong for perforimng cpr, though note these last 2 staments say two diferent things you can accept one and not the other.)
2) The facility she was in had a policy in place when she entered, that she was made aware of, that they would not perform cpr in the case of an arrest, but would call 911.
3) The patient/family agreed to be entered in the home, thus agreeing to the above policy.
4) She had a Cardiac arrest at the facility
5) The nurse at the facility followed the facility’s policy, and thus the patient’s wishes (see #3 above)and called 911 but refused to perform cpr.
Which point do I have wrong?
I think I may be missing something. My understanding is she/ the family were told of this policy at the nursing home when they joined. By joining she in effect agreed to a DNR
Are those who think somebody was wrong (Daniella seems to feel “everyone” was wrong) opposed to the idea of DNR? This is an astounding chiddush! I have never ancountred anyody in real life who is opposed to the idea of DNR in every case. She asked for it (By joining this home) and got it. What is the controversy?
It is a great way to show how frum you are
mishpachasu, you can add that as another advantage to the internet, that now if you want to be considred smart no longer can you just go through kitzur like the layman and add something on top. The bar is raised that much higher for all since the layman has acess to much more information.
thegra, they undoubtedly would have published more, driven by the haarabtzos torah and zechusim at their fingertips
truthsharer, you should never “Despise” divrei Torah, no matter when.
Its a more Democratic way for the govt to be forced to follow the will of the people. The Prime minister cant just do what he or even his party wants for the duration of his term he need support of opposing parties and thus needs to grant some of their desires as well.
The US on the other hand, essentially elects a dictator for 4 years (consider the fact that no President was ever removed from office during his term no matter how low their approval ratings may have been). The President can pretty much do as he pleases (to a certain extent) throughout his 4 years no matter how unpopular they may be. Think About Obama’s possible kill list or Bush maintaining the IRaq war when it was wildly unpopular. In most democratic countries includig Israel Bush’s govt would’ve collapsed once the war was unpopular.
When R’ Yochanon told a woman to stop going to shul so that she can die did he kill her r”l?
When R’ chanina ben Taradyon allowed the executioner to remove the wet pieces of wool that were keeping him alive longer was he advocating murder R”L?
When the Gemara says and Shulchan aruch codifies that when a goses is dying and a wood cutter is keeping him alive we can stop the wood cutter so as to allow the goses to die is he advocating murder r”l?
Withholding CPR is even a step removed from that(since there is no kum veaseh and no hinderence is being removed it is only POSSIBLE aid that is being withheld), calling it murder is am haaratzos. Dpending on the circumsatnces withholding CPR may be the correct thing to do
Gamnanit, depends on the state of health in my relative, and the cause of cardiac arrest. In most scenarios in 80 year olds no I absolutely would not want CPR done.
CPR is no guarantee. Most people are not revived by CPR and it is painful.
A few posters seem to have missed this point. Statistics especially in the elderly are not good.
I have no idea whether CPR would have been appropriate in this case. But to think that CPR is just flicking a switch that automatically brings back a dead/dying person is wrong.
Sometimes. Sometimes. No. No. No.
DY, None of those expressions are said regarding chametz being batel before pesach
No, silly question
You are mistaken
Smoking +1
Metzitza b’peh +1
Trans fats, salt and large, sugary drinks +1
Styrofoam -1
Loud Earphones -1
Total +1
College.
Toi, wrong
/?din?r/
Noun
The main meal of the day, taken either around midday or in the evening”
Most Frum Jews eat one of these every single shabbos
multifactorial, strong genetic component
Mustard, Dijon.