ubiquitin

We arent talkign about Obama nor Hillary
We are tlaking about Trump and his reason for firing Comey:

the OP asked:
“What do you think Trump’s real motivations were in firing him?”

I replied:
“Comey was investigating the the Russian connection, and not letting up”

you said
“I love the conspiracy theories! If you think Comey was on to something with regards to Russia, why would firing him solve anything?!?”

Then the Donald stepped in and said “Ubiquitin is right (As usual)”

Note: that isnt a verbatim quote he actually said “And, in fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said, ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.”

Yet strangely a staunch supporter of alternate facts who was proven dead wrong had this to say
“Now I’ve proven right again.”

“Is there such a thing as frum/Yeshivish doctors?”

I like to think so. And I definitely know of many frum doctors,

” Can one actually go to med school and still make time to learn Torah (at least 2 hours a day),”
Yes though 2 hours every day is hard (certainly day before final that takes real motivation but certainly not impossible and not limited to medicine)

make it to minyan and daven three times a day?
minyan – impossible to be done everyday especially as a student and trainee
davening – can be done

“What does it look like when they need to enter an internship program and live as a frum Jew at the same time? Are there certain areas where on has to compromise on? ”

Minyan is a big one, davening in general is hard and especially as a student have to rely on bedieveds like Shacharis before neitz. Tefilin before misheyakir (R’ Moshe allows this but not lecatchila and not all agree)
I dont see how it is possible to avoid shaking women’s hands (there are mekilim but as is well known There are those who hold its yeharog Ve’al yaavor so I suppose that too is a compromise.)
though none of these are limited to medicine per se.

“What is their lifestyle like?”
Too vague.

Note the above is a generalization depends on stage of training and specialty matters as well

3. Are you confusing heter iska with pruzbal (another anti-capitalist idea not pruzbal but the idea that without a pruzbal loans dissolve) ?

4. I lost you. I’m sorry.
I’ll walk you through it slowly please let me know where you get stuck.
A. Hasagas gevul is a restriction on competition (Though yes it doesn’t always apply)
B. Free market capitalism supports unfettered competition
C. The Torah opposes pure free market capitalism.

5. Who sets the market price? Hint it isn’t free market
And why do you label it fraud? If I own the only pizza store in town (Thanks to the issur of hasagas gevul and of course my interest free loan I got from you) and a slice of pizza “costs” 1 dollar why can’t I charge you $10 if you want it great if not don’t eat pizza

3. Yes I know that there is a halachic “workaround” that doesn’t change that in opposition to free market capitalism the Torah limits what I can do with my money.

4. Stop hocking ah chainek.
You own a pizza store I decide hey this seems like a good spot to own a pizza store I’m going to open one up next door.
What does free market capitalism say about that?
What does the Torah day about that (generally speaking)?

2. “You said that insurance companies prefer group insurance because workers are more likely to be healthy.”

I did not. You have to stop lumping all posts together

3. “How does the Torah oppose free market capitalism? ”
In many ways., ive listed them earlier. The biggest one is forbidding lending with interest. The very “CAPITAL” that is the word capitalism usage is limieted since a big advantage of capital is being allowed to do with it what yo uwant. Which we cannot do. another one is limit on the profit yo ucan make (ona’as maamon)

4. “Hasagat gevul is a property protection. Free-market capitalism does not allow theft. ”

Hassagos gevul is alos a restriction on competition see shulchan aruch

Avi

1. Im not sure where IVe said otherwise.
And I’m all for tort reform

2.. I dont beelive this is related to anything I said

3. not quite. The purest form of Capitalism is “free market Capitalism” Which the Torah strongly opposes.
As mentioned I did not mean the Torah opposes all forms of capitalism Im sorry if It came off that way. (though in my very first comment on thsi subject I said “I am not saying the Torah supports socialism”)

4. “In Marx’s society no one would be allowed to compete” Oh you mean like hasagas gevul?

bluhbluh

“the Torah does impose limits on Capitalism. Limitations, however, support my position. Those very examples you cite *only* occur under Capitalism.”

I love it! Marx was pro Capitalsim too just he believed that means of production should be owned collectively by the workers.

“in a true Socialist society …”
I never said the Torah was socialist. Just that it opposes (pure) Capitalism.

“Finally, I suggested no controversy with regard to essential services…”
I apologize. from the tone of Your paragraph “Sure, one can provide … jails, armies, mail, street lights, paved roads, etc. without regard to ability to pay, age and citizenship. But, someone (or a lot of someones) has to pay for it all.” It sounded to me like you didnt support that. Apologies if I misunderstood. (although In which case I dont understand the point of that paragraph,)

“unless the government is acting as an agent on behalf of its citizens”
that is exactly my argument

“a good doctor should be able to instill confidence into his patients”

1) Today everybody with access to google or Web MD is an expert (This isnt just regarding medicine)
2) convincing a patient takes time. Doctors dont have a lot of time.

“What causes resistance to antibiotics where the drug previously was effective in treating the bacterial infection?”

Exactly as MEno said .
Basically there are some mutations that allow Bacteria to withstand Abx. for example E coli can generally be killed by Beta LActam abx ( such as Cephlasporins ) However some have a a gene codign for an enzyme Beta-lactamase that destroys the antibiotic. These were likely always around but not in sufficent number to cause harm. However with the overuse of antibiotics these ESBL producing organisms Ie resitent ones have been selected for and now are more prevelant to the point where they can and do cause significant harm.
Basically Survival of the fittest

“What can be done to avoid bacteria mutating to resist antibiotics?

Exactly as Meno said “USe less antibiotics” This is the responsibilty of both providers and patients. Patients oftne feel deprived when told cold was likely viral and didnt require antibiotics, and they waited (and paid!!!) for “nothing” IF you trust your doctor, and they say you dont need antibiotics dont insist on some.
If you dont trust your doctor then get a new one.

The other thing that can help is completing the ocurse of antibiotics. While this seems contradictory to the first piece of advice, it is believed that not completing a course might leave behind some microbes that arent fully eradicated and allow for these bacteria to proliferate

Avi you are shifting your argument

you originially said “In countries where this exists people clog up ERs and clinics with imaginary or minor illnesses j”

This is simply false. In fact as mentioned, the reverse is true.

You now discuss wait-lists for surgery. A new topic but a fair one and certainly a related one.
First it is worth noting that this is for elective surgery
Second keep in mind in the US for those without insurance the wait time is much longer than anybody in Canada’s ever was.

If your question is should we wait a bit to get a (deductable free) knee replacement so that anybody who needs one can get one? I say yes

Joseph

I dont know what is available to such people. so I cant speak to specifics.

I do believe that the right to “Life” is an unalienable right as was written 241 years and 2 days ago.
I agree with you that “universal housing” is necessary for living. I am not sure why a homeless shelter doesnt satisfy that need. you say it isnt, I dont quite get why. Again, I admit I am not familiar with the specifics available, from the DHS website it sounds like families are kept apart from singles I’m not sure why this doesnt satisfy your need for “They need privacy as a married couple and for their family of five children.” nor do I understand why that need for privacy is included in the need for housing, a claim you have made.

In short, yes the government should provide housing to those who cant afford it.
Again, though I was not aware that this is a controversial issue. Do you disagree ? D o you believe the govt should leave families with children living in the street? (Ive asked this a few times, and I dont see if/where youve answered)

those with failing kidneys cant live without dialysis I believe society (ie the govt) should provide that . thankfully the Government does. Those with diabetes cant live without insulin (type 1 anyway) I believe the government should provide this too. Sadly the government doesn’t as of yet, but thanks to Obama zul zain gezunt un shtark we have taken a step in the right direction.
Note unlike housing this is not abstract to me, I have met someone who didnt have access to affordable insurance due tio her preexisting diabetes she would cut back on insulin when she was strapped for cash. sure the ER would help her when she went into diabetic ketoacidocis and stabilize a her unti ldischarge but long term she would not be able to live if not for Obama and the Democrats. The True “Pro-life” party

Avi

“In countries where this exists people clog up ERs and clinics with imaginary or minor illnesses just to talk to someone or simply because it is free.”

The exact opposite is true. In the US many without insurance clog up ER’s with imaginary illnesses. In countries with universal healthcare they can go to their local clinic and dont need the ER for an earache.

Joseph

“Do you support universally government guaranteed fully paid rent Section 8 vouchers to every family of parents and children who have no income?”

Doesnt everybody?
Dont we do that already?
Are there really people who would have families with children living in the street?
People are so worried about a mabul another thread. We should worry about being like Sedom too

Joseph

I admit that Idont know exactly what is provided.
But on the NYC DHS (Department of Homeless Services (!!!)) webiste their are seperate links for: Adult Families, Families with Children and single Adults. It doesn’t sound like they are all lumped together.

something I fully support (And again, I dont believe is controversial,)
and I cant help but notice that you haven’t answered my question are you opposed to homeless shelters?

I am so confused

Do you not believe in government providing homeless shelters?
Is that really a controversial idea?

“I think it does effect us. If i see a non jew eating a cheesburger, it is totaly fine with me. I grew a certain definition of marriage and consider it normal. Despite the world changing their mind, for the most part my own personal outlook isn’t changed, ”

I dont follow, you Goyim eat cheeseburgers we dont, goyim have 2 men marry we dont.
Its simple as that.

Granted there are other concerns such as being forced to participate/cater/etc such ceremonies that are real concerns. But as for what two Goyim do I’m not sure why we get so worked up over it.

And spare me the midrash about the mabul, The Torah says the mabul came because of chamas, I’ll believe those who are so worried about another mabul coming when they spend even half as much time condemning chamas as they do about this

GH
“I believe its “objectively immoral” to allow any child born in the U.S. to lack adequate health care or nutrition…”

fantastic point!
those hilarious hypocrites also call themselves “pro-life”

DY

Interesting
thanks . I stand corrected

CT lawyer

I dont disagree with the gist of your point.

However a point that does deserve mention (whcih I assume is part of the argument) Is that the NYC Public schools sytem cant handle us.

Many are already struggling, and it isnt like they have a surplus of cash lying around. there are approximatly 100,000 kids in Yeshivas all of whom are entitled to education and who the system is nt read yto accommodate.

All the more so when you factor in Kosher food (which correct me if Im wrong, but the I believe the public schools would have to provide).

IT sint quite the same as swimming pools where if you dotn want to swim no problem. Kids must have an education, so We am being forced to pay for an education that the city knows full well we will not take nor can they provide if 100,000 of us where to say, ok public schools we are here.

DY
“Correct, the OP is asking for even less than I am”

It sint about more vs/ less its about making a case for your point. And given that a private school is a luxury I dotn why it shouldn’t be included in taxable income (which is not at all what you are arguing)

I woukld love to see the answers to those questions

though I would like to point out to some of those tests you will have biased samples.
For example SAT’s many yeshivas do not allow their talmidim to take SAT’s and others make it difficult (YOu Need the Yeshiva’s help to take it as they are offered on Shabbos unless a dispensation is granted). So for Yeshiva guys in many settigns the only ones who are taking the SAT are thsoe who take it somewhat seriously and have jumped through (minor) hoops to take it. As opposed to public schools where it may be a given that high schools take it.

But the problem you will face is the very obvious argument that private education is a “luxury” (of course to us it isnt)

A more palatable change might tbe to allow tuition to come from an FSA so can be pre-tax.
Though again see Joseph’s comment

yytz

“According to your definition there would have been no true conservatives until recent times”

definitions evolve over times. IF you define conservative as favoring limited goverment (granted there are tother definitions) then yes they werent real conservatives.

“It is not true that laws are only to be enforced.”
You mix up halacha and legal laws they arent synonyms.

“Not that we should actually enforce them most of the time.”
Why not? why is that immorality different than the topic of this thread

yytz

“it would be better to wait until there is a larger conservative majority”

Part of the problem is, True conservatives would oppose overturning Lawrence. you cant claim to be opposed to “big government” and demand government regulate what goes on in bedrooms

“However, the importance of having such laws on the book is symbolic”

Laws shouldn’t be symbolic they should have meaning. and be enforceable. What would be the point of adding laws that wouldn’t be enforced. Yet more Big government and the ultimate unnecessary intrusion something no real conservative could possibly support

Keep in mind even in Lawrence the sole justice who opposed overturning the law and is still alive (Thomas) opposed the law and called it “uncommonly silly”, He was in the minority and the law struck down.

but to turn a phrase it is “uncommonly silly” to think a law dexcribed by its lone surviving supporter in the SCOTUS ” as “uncommonly silly” would be added again.

Keep in mind how things have shifted. “DOnt ask dont tell” was originally a Democrat position and opposed by Republicans for being to “liberal”, 2 decades later it became the Republican position and opposed by Democrats for being to “harsh”

Regardign Obergfell, maybe maybe it might be oveertunred, but more than liekly that ship too has sailed. Trump said “it is the law of the land” While certainly some disagree it is doubtful there is enough opposition to actually change anything

Destiny and Journeys are quite different

Though I’ll grant there is SOME overlap for example the Country Boy song on Journeys 4 sounds like should have been on Destiny

LC

you said this “Until you’ve paid, the food is not yours. What gives anyone the right to consume someone else’s property’? ”
That is a verbatim quote.
you now acknowledge that this rule (“Until you’ve paid, the food is not yours”) Is not absolute, and there are situations where you can consume food prior to paying, since in a restaurant “By placing an order, you are entering into a verbal contract…” (putting aside the fact that I dont believe this is factual, as you cant sue the owner if he fails to provide the order) Who is to say that by placing the items in my cart I am not entering a verbal contract making them mine with the condition that I pay for them later.

The truth is you dont need lomdus to frame it this way. The real answer to the restaurant has nothing to do with a “verbal contract” rather that is what is done. So it isnt stealing. Ditto for a snack in a supermarket. while not done as often as eating in a restaurant, it is not unusual thus is acceptable.

“You provided one definition.”
Im open to any definition. Do you have another?

” it can easily lead to stealing”
I dont see why I have to follow your gezeirahs.

“but most stores don’t allow”
what makes you say that?