Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Is it assur to call a room with a sink and toilet a “bathroom”, although it contains no bath?
LC
Of course it sint the same. I was pointing out though that your point “Until you’ve paid, the food is not yours. What gives anyone the right to consume someone else’s property” Isnt absolute.
MDG
“s/he also does not want shoplifting.”I provided the definition of shoplifting in my first post. There is no question that it isnt shoplifting.
“Not if the present owner does not consent.”
I like BD spoke to a local owner who said he loves it “a sale is a sale” why would he put retrictions on where customers can eat food they purchase/plan to purchaselesschumras
“Until you’ve paid, the food is not yours. What gives anyone the right to consume someone else’s property’?”Is that what you do in a restaurant?
“What if you forget to pay?”
then and only then have you stolen, no different as if you forgot to pay for any item that you took whether eaten or not isnt relevant to if you “forgot to pay”blublublu
” I think Chaza”l had in mind…”
while it is nice to have your own pshat as to what chazal had in mind, the Rishonim offer theirs
Rashi says thisis a place where others dotn do that. Tosfos brings Rabbeinu chananel as it means he steals the food (less tha a perutah). and Rabbeinu Tam who says it means a full meakl (“pas”) which woudl make a restaruant worse than eating a snack in a supermarket.Though according too all 3 of those Rishonim drinking from a water bottle (that is yours) where this is common practice, is allowed.
This one is easy!
“but really when it comes to life and death… have you seen the affects of a healthy vs unhealthy lifestyle on your peers, friends, and family?”
yes.
” And how about seeing the affects of genetics on someone who you’d think would have more or less health issues?”
Yes to both.
You said it best “Obviously it’s both”
” wishing everyone the best of health always!!!”
Amen
“I personally dont consider Vegetible roll or Avocado Roll , Sushi, Sushi must contain fish”
It is a free country, and much like some can avoid sushi for whatever reason they please, you can call whatever you want sushi. Though strictly speaking you are incorrect as sushi refers to the rice. Thus Vegtable sushi is sushi while Pesach Quinoa sushi technically isnt.
1. Is it permissible al pi halacha – idealy can ask the storeowner if unsure can assume most store owners wouldnt mind
and per secular law? – Yes Shoplifting requires “the intent to permanently deprive the item’s rightful owner (the grocery store, in this case), without paying for it.”2. Too Subjective depends on the food eaten, the person eating it, what others do
ZD
“Nobody puts up a sign my house is Eggplant Free”
I do!
but that is because I am on such a high madreiga. you wouldnt understand.ZD
“If you like eating such foods, good. You should eat them,”
Again, what If I like avoiding foods, and putting up a sign saying my house is say, ” This house is eggplant free” (I really cant stand eggplant!, and besides eggplant is bigematryiah Sitrah achrah (though dont ask me how) )
I dont get it, why cant I do that?ITs a giant planet their are all sorts of people. Some like Sushi, some dont and some have no opinion. some like putting up signs saying their house is Sushi free. As long as they dont stop you (us!) from eating sushi who cares. roll your eyes and move on.
ZD
“but the bigger point is , Eat what you like, not because of some “tradition””What if I like eating foods because I find them “traditional” and by eatign them (or avoiding them) I feel connected to a tradition that may or may not be historical.
Is that ok?(See also “The invention on Tradition” by Eric Hobsbawm & Terence Ranger some chapters are available onl;ine)
Joseph
Are you referring to shibuta? It has Rava’s Certification not the OU’s
Zahava dad
“Just because Your Bubbie and Zayde didnt eat something is no reason to Assur it. ”Nobody (as far as Im aware) says it s actually assur (if properly checked etc). But it shouldnt be that shocking that people who maintain their parents dress also avoid any “new” foods. why is avoiding suchi any stranger than wearing a fur hat in July, or for that matter a fedora.
Dont try to ask these using logic. IT isnt a logical decision per se. But it helps some maintain a connection to the past. It is a hergesh and not one based on historical factors
Plus it is an easy way to be frummer than other people. so win win.
If you enjoy sushi nobody is stopping you (yet)
2. please explain why you do not believe in halachic principles such
שעת הדחק, צורך גדול, etc.
Im confused, you beleive these are licenses to do what you want?
They arent a license to do what you want. that bacon looks delicious. Oh great that makes it a ” שעת הדחק, צורך גדול, ” Im going to go eat itSyag
“I don’t know if this is clear.”Completely!
We are coming from slightly different places as you “don’t enjoy controversy or arguments (I would never make it in the bais medrash)” and That is precisely what draws me here, as I miss the bais medrash. But I completely get what you are sayingAnd I agree putting down a poster who seemed to be looking for “chizuk and empathy on such a personal topic” is not the time for argument and put downs.
Unfortunately though it is to be expected, so if that can be ignored (easier said than done) their may be some empathy/chizuk that can be provided
edited (for some of the reasons mentioned above)
DY
“Unless your argument is that because some people who are considered Orthodox don’t keep certain halachos, she assumes that those are not really halachos.”
I assumed that is the argument.
IF the kabbalah is real even if the person doesnt know what they are being mekabel, presumably the geirus would work. Isnt that the ultimate Naaseh Venishma.
I am by no means well versed in hilchos geirus, but my understanding is that having them live like frum Jews is relatively new (in fact I beleive some (R’ Akiva Eiger?) say it is assur to teach them Torah before conversion)
Isnt there is a tosfos that discusses a Ger who never heard of hilchos shabbos? Yet geirus was good
(do you know what I am referring to or am I remembering wrong?)Syag
I wasnt arguing this is the perfect example of “to eaCH their own” (regarding the posting vs non-posting).
“Lately it seems expressing different views, or differing views results in being called judgmental, not frum, negative etc. If I think women should have choice I’ll be a torah hater and a feminist.”
People act differently online and in real life this has both pluses (as some views that people may not feel comfortable expressing can be given a platform) and minuses (the real problem of cyber bullying)
It is important to take everything online with a heaping mound of salt. People arent who they say they are posters have claimed to be health professionals when they clearly arent, even genders arent always clear. thats why I find the expression ask your LOR strange. Nobody should ever take any real advice from a random online source whether medcial , halachic or personal. Most people know this but come here to bounce ideas of each other. And make no mistake, I have had fantastic discussions
I doubt anybody who feels like having children may not be for them goes to an online forum reads “It is an affront to Hashem, who is the One who decides whom to give children to.” and decides ok I guess Im going to go have as many children as I can. Joseph knows this too. It is part of his online persona though to throw in these “charedi sounding views” whenever he can. I doubt in person he would say the same if asked, as he may or may not be like “Joseph” in real life.the same goes for name-calling “judgmental, not frum, negative etc. …torah hater and a feminist.” It is important to keep in mind the adage “On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog” which existed from the early days of the internet in 93 and is even more true today. That by know means makes it easy to ignore, and cyber-bullying is a real problem (not one that I have been innocent of) but it is important remember that the comments arent always real.
syag
“Obviously women who feel that way about something so unbelievable personal aren’t going to bare their souls here, a…, let alone anonymous …”Thats interesting, I had the exact opposite thought.
I had thought how useful this forum is, as this is somehting most people may not feel comfortbale discussing in person, yet they may want other perspectives, which makes an anonymous forum absolutly perfectOOOOH good thread
My favorite album is Sameach by Mendy Wald
(I’m not saying it is the best per se)“Suffice it to say, I was complaining about her gerus “before it was cool,””
Im not sure it is or was ever “cool”
I’m also not sure how anyone can know what she kept and more importantly what she intended to keep. While obviously today she does not adhere to the tenets of Orthodox Judaism (by any standard MO UO or even OO), she converted almost a decade ago and was not in the limelight as much so here non-halachic practice wasnt as well documented as it is today (to my knowledge) Thus I am not sure how people can be so usre to write her out so forcefully unless they have some inside information.
that said, I wonder if perhaps thsoe arguing she was never megayer properly are actually creating a limud zechus for her…
CTLAwyer
I think it is reasonable to say Most descendants of those who immigrated pre WW2 intermarry. (not all!)
IT is probably hard to provide data, but that doesnt seem as surprising as the way I mistakingly understood his FACT at first.Joseph
In your first “FACT” you end off “Most intermarried.”
Is this referring to the line preceding it i.e. that ” most [of] …thier children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren” intermarried or the opening ” Most frum Jews who left Europe.. intermarried.”Either way Im curious as to your source. while Sadly most recent data indicates an intermarriage rate of 58% which can be characterized as “most” as recently aS 1990 it was “only” at 40% which is obviously not “most”
(i’ll grant that this number includes many Jews who arrived (or ancestors did) mmore recently) But I find it surprisng that “most children ” of those who arrived, let alone they themselves intermarried.“as did Korach and his ilk.”
Im confused, According to you isnt that ok?
Moshe Rabbeinu and Korach had a machlokes . why are you spewing hatred about Korach?Avi
“Someone uses the Kushners for maasei rav he already has a twisted and incorrect definition of Orthodoxy.”Im not sure what you mean by that. I respect your opinion and often look to you for guidance, in your view can the Kushners be labeled Orthodox?
nechamasara
“seems to be an honest person”debatable, but not directly related to the subject at hand
“That she is Shomeres Shabbat, keeps kosher”
she isnt sadly, Please stop pretending she ismench and ZD
for some reason Avi is confused by this
see here : http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rabbi-shmuly#post-1225573Syag
thanks got It!So he was at your work place putting up signs! Frightening
Cherrybim
“it is very rare , it is very rare that a Ger … keeps all the mitzvos immediately.”
I’m not sure what you mean by that. IF a Ger says he/she is able to be mekayem all mitzvos except “a kutzo shel yud” that he/she cant accept right away, there is no geirus
Syag
I’m sorry I dont follow
you had said “I work in a place were there are anti-trump signs everywhere saying “Hate has no home here” in several languages.”now you say the signs weren’t at your workplace? (“and neither were the signs”)
You ended your first post with ” this must not count as hate” Unles this fellow had such a sign, Or if your co-workers support him, I’m not usre how it connects to the signs at your workplace (that werent there?)
“this must not count as hate”
syag, Was he from your workplace?
Hi Health
Ive been follwoing along your conversation, since as you know you are my favorite poster.
I dont have much interest in getting involved in the main issue, since IVe already made my point (namely that people should have options, a point about which I believe we agree).I do have a question for you though, if you dont mind.
You clearly want to be taken seriously, since you spend a while responding (and on multiple threads)
So my question is, if you in fact want to have a real discussion why dont you treat it as such?
You claim to be a medical professional, why not be upfront what is it that you do (my guess is phlebotomy or maybe an US tech (if anything at all) but I really have no idea) And if you dont want people to know, (whcih of course is fine) why mention it at all?You clearly have some beef with hatzolah, (and it isnt that they didnt admit you) elaborate what is it, perhaps you are mistaken, or perhaps your opponents dotn know what you are reffering to. If you want ot be taken seriously make cogent arguments providing examples, back up your claims.
IF you dont want to be taken seriously, make it clearer so people know not to take your posts seriously since it seems not all posters are in on the joke.
and no there is no payment involved for posting on YWN, sorry in advance that isnt a thing.Eis la’asos
Raboisai, all should be mekabel to recite the following daily:
אני מאמין באמונה שלימה שיש גזירת גיוס ואף על פי שיתמהמה עם כל זה אחכה לו בכל יום שיבא
(ובזכות שנתחזק בזה , נזכה שהגזירה תבוא במהרה, ואז נוכיח לעיני כל עם ומלואו צדקת דרכנו)Through all the bickering and silly asides the main poiont has been lost.
Health said it best
“What you don’t understand, is that people need a choice – either Hatzolah, EN or EMS!”
(just that line Im not saying I agree with anything else he has said, but hey kabel es haemes…)thats the bottom line. should people who (for whatever reason) want EN or not want Hatzalah, whther out of tnius concern, whther they are mad at hatzolah for not lettign them in, whther they tried to sue hatzolah or whatever, Should people have a choice ? (I mentioned this on another thread
Nobody is suggesting everybody must call ENi if you dont want them call hatzaolah if someone does let them.
“The silence on the LH/HSR issues is deafening.”
Wrong again
From the beginning I pointed out both the LH your poster posts about ” Open Orthodox” and the HSR he/you posted about those who correctly point out that the Kushners arent orthodox .
” in response to someone else bringing them up (like in this very thread.”
+1
Neither I nor Joseph started this thread
I commented in response to a post by a fellow who is so enamored by Trump that while, he often critisices other’s lack of adherence to halacha, all of a sudden makes an exception for his guy’s family membersI agree with those who say that their religiosity is not our concern.
However, what does concern me is when people label obviously non-orthodox Jews as orthodox. It confuses the non-orthodox and probably some less orthodox people.Again this isnt about judging, They may be wonderful people and obviously I have no idea what schar awaits them.
I just think it is wrong (and it confuses me as to what can possibly drive this other than plain old chanifa) to label the m”orthodox” and come up with all sorts of nonsensical justifications for their non-adherence to halacha
This isnt about being “over focused on the intricasies of the kushners lives” the opposite, coming up with “maybe they bring their own mashgiach and plates.” (seriously?) is being focused on the intracicies.
They arent orthodox. period. no need to find out what heter they had to do this and that much like for any frei jew we dont wonder what heter Seinfeld had to drive on Shabos. Yes perhaps they keep more than Seinfeld, which is great but lets let it go they simply arent orthodox.mentch
“And for armchair rabbis to call her kids Jewishness into question is a grievous error”I agree and never called anyone’s jewishness into question
Avi K
“do Orthodox Jews say LH? Do they engage in fraud? Do they destroy other people’s property…”OF course all Jews do Aveiros once in a while. If he case was they once atte in a restaraunt not realizing it wasnt Ksoher or She once wore an outfit not realizing hw revealing it was we wouldnt have this discussion.
If a person says oh I’m Orthodox but I’m “not makpid” on lashon hara or I destroy property when I dont like it, then he sint orthodox
Again, they may be wonderful people and the schar for mitzvos they do keep is immeasurable maybe more than mine.I’m curious though, in your view what is the line. If I tell you I’m orthodox but I dont keep shabbos, kashruz a basic standard of tnius is there any point that you would say “I dont think your Orthodox”? OR can I do whatever I want and as long as I claim to be orthodox, I am?
“You don’t ask sheylos out of context”
I’m not asking any sheilos I am not asking anybody to pasken anything about anyones’s geiros nor status as a jew.
I am just standing up for the definition of “Orthodox” words have to have menaing. It is wrong to redefine our religion so that people with powerful relatives can fit in. That is called chanifa.
Of course flying On shabbos is the easiest to defend. Im not sure why you thought otherwise (in fact I purposely hardly mentioned that example).
“almost certainly involved Jewish issues”
Lol when the infamous tapes were released reuiring an emergency Shabbos meeting on Oct 8. Id love to hear how that “certainly involved Jewish issues.” and you dont call this “bending over backwards”?
However you confuse me in the end:
“They don’t have to follow your orthodox viewpoint. ”wait so we agree? They arent Orthodox?
Joseph
” if she doesn’t plan to keep Orthodox Judaism”
I do realize that, though I dont know what she planned on keeping, nor do I know whether she kept some standard of orthodoxy at some point. What I do know is what I see now“As far as she is concerned she is good girl and those of us in Brooklyn are just machmir.”
she may be a very good girl. she may be a tzadekes who simply doesnt know better, with schar in olam haba that will outweigh all of ours. I dont know and I agree that isnt my business
The only point I am commenting on is whether she is orthodox. And the answer is no. And I dont understand whayt drives people to bend over backwards to redifne “Orthodox” for them. If Iasked you out of context whther a couple who gets driven on shabbos, texts, talks on phone, eats trief and wears extremely revealing outfitsis Orthodox. yo uwould say no. you wouldnt say well does their Rabbi let them do those things.? this is what confuses me
whats worse is it confuses others.
I know of employees who were asked by their employers who dont understand the ideas of “different levesl” why they could drive on Shabbos and these employees have to leave early. Lets stop perpetuating this myth stop with the chilul Hashem, they are not Orthodox though they may be wonderful peoplemetsch1
” but were is the proof of open transgression?”
Yes
“I just don’t understand the hate”I dont understand the support. Again this isnt about judging and I dont know that I would be better. There are plenty Jewish Celebrities that dont keep shabbos. nobody gets excited when Jerry Seinfeld drives on shabbos nor when Jon Stewert eats Shrimp. They arent ORthodox, they arent our role models and we move on. We dont say maybe the shrimp are vegan and he has a traveling mashgiach (Seriously?)\
ditto for the Kushners, they arent orthodox (and Zdad may be right that they dont claim to be) thats it finnito end of story, theres no need to harp on every transgression of theirs, let it go (on this I agree with the OP). Why the need to come up with absurd defenses for at best some of their actions. Is it their connection to Trump? (and no it isnt out of desire to be dan lekaf zechus)Avi
“The Kushners do not pretend to represent any religious movement”
they may not claim to represnt, but to many they do
” nor do they publicize their religious views.”
they do (At least Ivanak does)
” Those armchair poskim who criticize them do so not only without a license to pasken but without knowing the details of their questions. ”
You dont need a license to pasken to know that dealing with the aftermath of a potentially damaging tape isnt docheh Shabbos. Nor do the details matter regarding their non-adherance of Kashrus.
“Interestingly they are silent about “frum” crooks.”
Who is the they?I am reminded of the story of the bachur whose milk was constantly stolen despite being marked “private – no permission to drink” until he marked it “chalav stam”. ”
That is a classic story. Though Im not sure which Bachur JAred is in that story since Lo sochlu neveila is a possuk no less than lo sigzol.
“By doing so they not only violate serious Torah prohibitions ben adam l’chaveiro but undermine the entire system of pesak. ”
how?
“This is not Orthodox behavio”
Nu so they arent Orthodox, sadly many Jews arent. At least he supposedly keeps some mitzvos. they are hardly the first non-orthodox Jews. Lets stop pretending they are Orthodox and move on, and focus on ourselves. But their is no reaso nto pervert the Torah and say that they are ok becuase they are part of Trump’s circle
NDG
No he is inconsistent. Because he like Trump.
Words have to have meaning if I say I am fish it isnt “judgmental” of you to point out that I dont live in water. If a group claims to be orthodox” it isnt judgmental to point out they dotn adhere to orthodox tennets. ditto for an individual who doesnt follow kashrus, Shabbos (if only it was just being driven in a car or plane, Id love to hear how the release of tapes that made his FIL look bad on a Friday are docheh shabbos, maybe I need a new Rav) a minimal standard of tznius. Now dont confuse thsi with judging, I dont know what I would do in such a situation, and it is possible I would fail the difficult nissayon they are in.
The author write “If the couple would suddenly announce that they are no longer “Orthodox” because they find too many Orthodox Jews narrow-minded, provincial, intolerant and judgmental, I, for one, would not blame them”
This is nonsense. IF they announced they were no longer Orthodox I would wonder when were they orthodox?“Rather than be condescending, vindictive and sanctimonious, we should be supportive, understanding and tolerant.”
I agree we should be supportive and understanding. But that doesnt mean we have to redife what it means to be Orthodox. The Kushners may be absolutely wonderful people they may be tzadikim gemurim doing much work for the klal, but Orthodox they arent. Much Like I may be a wonderful person, but I am not a fish
HAHAHA
thanks for sharing!Is the the same fellow who critizices “Open Orthodox” right and left?
Pot, meet kettle
“Very Modern Orthodox of you”
I’m also surprised, youre arguing on “Daas Torah” Since they have support from Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Rav Shteinman among others
2scents
the question is do they have a right to a personal preference
“everyone has their own personal preference. Some people prefer not to go to the hospital at all, or to call a cab. ”I agree completely! that is precisely my point. and those who want a women only group should have that option too.
Granted this group should know their limitations, and perhaps may need to revamped. But in theroy at least, if soem women want a women only group for soem situations they shoudl have that.
Now some may say that even those who want a woman only group shouldnt have one. The reason for why they shoudlnt have one is a side issue tznius, women shouldnt be visible, women shouldnt be accomodated, women arent as good, we already have hatzola, it would be confusing and lead to mistakes, some of these may be valid concerns . but the bottom line is a simple question :
“should Women have the option of calling a women only group in some situations?
Period. yes or no?”My question is not what YOU would prefer if you were a woman in such a situation. It is do you feel SOME WOMEN (not all) should have the opportunity (NOT BE FORCED) to call a woman only group
2scents
“Your asking a question that has an opinionized response to it, It’s to each and their own to answer this.”Yes obviously. That’s why I asked it.
“We as a community need to stop being so gullible and stop believing random stories posted on the internet swiped from chat groups.”
+1!
thank you achdus for opening an account especially to share your fascinating, definitely true since it is online story“Besides, an argument can easily be made that the patient would be uncomfortable with the same gender provider who is their acquaintance, not their husbands shull buddy, being involved in ANY of their emergencies.”
Ok, so those people can cal hatzalah. Nobody is arguing that hatzalah should be disbanded.
It boils down to the following simple question:
should Women have the option of calling a women only group in some situations?
Period. yes or no?Most other points are distracting from the above simple question
Are there cases that most (all?) women woudlnt care? sure
If there are no woman available would most (all?) women settle for a male even one who eats cholent with their husbands? sure
Should we keep the much more advanced and established well networked hatzalah for most (all?) life threatening emergencies? Again, of coursebut none of these facts change the simple fact that their are some situations that some women feel more comfortable having a female attend to them.