ubiquitin

UJM

thats for sure true.

But shas joined in 92 not BECAUSE of R’ Shach. He was opposed to Shas joining, the fact that they joined anyway created a bit of a rift between the two as damoshe alludes to

ymr

I’m so sorry I didn’t understand your last post

you say ” If you imagine that each one had their throats slit,”

but I’m not the one who says that. YOU said Shechita ONLY applies to “kosher food or קרבנות.”
Though you conceded there are a few exceptions.
So I’m asking you leshitascha, why is it used there. Accoridng to YOU it would mean each one had there throat slit making sure there was no sheiyah, chalada etc *

I don;t have any such question. Shechita is used the same way slaughter is in English (lhavdil)
It is used for Jewish ritual Slaughter; OR it is used for a bloody death whether human or not human.

Thus a “Goy who shechts” is not a question at all according to me Sure a goy can shecht but his shechita is no good. This is wha t the mishan says

“And yes, מפרשים discuss why ושחט was used with רי זירא. Because it isn’t the normal use of the word. Look it up next time דף יומי comes around.”

I can’t wait that long. And I suspect you are making them up. sure there are meforshim who say it doesn’t mean killed literally ** in which case it is certainly a borrowed term but I’m skeptical that there are thsoe who say it does mean killed literally , but the “shechita” isnt literal *** since shecita only applies to kosher animals

* Though they still arent kosher animals, nor in the beis hamikdash so yet another exception !

** showing yet AGAIN that shechita isnt always used to refer to Jewish ritual slaughter. IT can mean he caused him to be full till his throat with wine (Maharsha) or drew forth his torah learning (Ben Yehoyada)

*** Though again whatever those exceptions are you’d have to add them to the growing list

Also
Just occurred to me

you says “The אבן עזרא explains that the term וישחטם is used instead of the proper term ויהרגם because it took place in the wilderness, where cattle normally graze. So the פסוק would properly be understood as “to slaughter them like cattle in the wilderness”.”

but shechita only means ritually slaughtered (according to you) not just random cow slaughter. After all the post in question involved the slaughter of a cow, and you insist that that is NOT shechita.
So why is the word shechita used which ONLY means ritual slaughter in your view.
how does he answer the question (as you understand it) ?

If you want more examples
(Though unclear why a mishna describing a goy shechting is not a perfect example of a goy shechting that isnt korbanos nor kosher food)

Bamidbar 14: 16 not korbanos nor kosher food
Shoftim 12:6 not korbanos nor kosher food
Melachim 1 18:40 not korbanos nor kosher food
Melachim 2 10:7 not korbanos nor kosher food
Melachim 2 10:14 not korbanos nor kosher food
Melachim 2 25:7 not korbanos nor kosher food

And none of these “shechitas” occur in the azarah so your borrowed term “distinction” doesn’t work either.

Again, I don’t doubt you can come up with creative distinctions for each (this was many people so it’s different, that was before the beis hamikdash was built so it’s different)
The simple fact is the word shechita isn’t only used for halachic shechita

“You will not find שחיטה used in תנ”ך or הלכה outside of the preparation or kosher food or קרבנות.”

This is incorrect.
I gave you two examples

ymrbiat
Great Question

shechting doesn’t always mean “שחיטה” It means Slaughtering and is quite often used that way. The Gemara refers to Zecharia ben Yehoyada being “nishchat beheichal” It doesn’t mean they fulfilled the Halacha L’moshe Misinai of shechita R”L. It means he was slaughtered in the heichel. Even if he was killed by decapitation it is not uncommon to refer to, say “6 million Kedoshim who were shechted al kiddush Hashem” Although few of them were decapitated (shechita isnt decapitation of course) they were slaughtered, or shechted if you will.

The Arab was slaughtering his animal. Thus he was shechting it.

This answers a great question you must have on Chulin 13 a.
The Mishna says “shechitas nachri neveila” What do you mean the shechita of a nachri is neveila? A goy can’t shecht????

Must be of course he can shecht/slaghter however the halachaic status of his shechita is that it is neveila.

hope this helps!

Fantastic mareh makom

“However for young students our ancestors IN RECENT TIMES have not taught them Tanach and one should not change this tradition.” (emphasis added)

IT is always interesting to me when A gadol, says befeh maleh that changes in practice in gweneral, and chinuhc in particular occur.
Once upon a time kids learnt Tanach, after all “the halacha is that one should teach Tanach” however “in recent times” this is no longer doen.

Thanks for sharing!

Avira
“Ubiq, a recognized club will draw way more members.”
The opposite is true not many LGBT are interested in being outed by their teshiva. And they are very wary that the “Torah approach” will include conversion therapy

Ujm
Lol ok so let’s take the lowest estimate for LGBT. The highest for oedophilia . All in a desperate attempt to make your point.

You conclude “As such, you still cannot deny that the aveira of pedophilia (which also severely victimizes innocent children) should be addressed with at least the same alarcity as that of the aveira of homosexuality.”
Ok sold. Start the club you have my support. Beracha vehatzlacha

Ujm

“According to research, approximately 1.7% of the population…”

Yiu accidently wrote the number backwards
Gallup poll in Feb 2022 estimated 7.1 %

And I enjoyed that you stuck in “exclusive” as if oh it’s not exclusive then it’s ok

just
“ubiq: How on earth would you know that. Do you have any proof?”

proof of what?

avira
Yes I understand your concern.
Though as I said the club exists regardless. The difference is whether it is recognized by YU. YU recognizing it won’t lead to illicit relationships.

YO
You are most welcome

Of course 8 minutes is much to long for a daf yomi shiur. If ou listen double speed you can get it down to a 4 minute daf

“What does all this have to do with my OP?”

You made refrence to the “Torah velt” that it belongs to all
LF and dovid both said similarly that t there is a Torah world with same set of values for “3000 years”
1 then made reference to covering up for abuse
Avira defended the Troah world by saying that it was not known how bad abuse was, and in the course of that mentioned even today it isn’t well understood
That led to severa,l in particular Syag, to call out Avira for his nonsense.

and that is how we got here

UJM
“Is this YU group trying to help homosexuals STOP ENGAGING IN HOMOSEXUALITY?

YES OR NO?”
That’s like asking did you stop hitting your wife yes or No. I don’t know the teiyereh yidden who will join the club I am required to give them the benefit of doubt and assume that although they have this YH they have never chas veshalom acted upon it.
OF course if any R’Chl has then the answer to your question is a resounding YES (al caps)
as the letter says “we have been working to formulate a Torah framework to provide our LGBTQ students with an enhanced support system that continues to facilitate their religious growth and personal life journeys.”

Avira

“nice try in attempting to evade your moral relativism when it’s clearly pointed out.”

what do you mean try? I am evading it . It has no bearing on this thread. You are trying to slip it in to pontificate, I’m not taking the bait.

“You then attempted to say that Rav Moshe’s Torah is relative to how goyim in his time viewed toevos”
Again no attempt. I quoted R’ Moshe as supplied by UJM VERBATIM. I didn’t add a word . Perhaps you disagree with R’ Moshe. I have no problem with that , though I am not sure why you would. Perhaps you disagree with the translation you’d have to point out where but ok thats fine.

“Again, how would you feel if YU made a support group for people who are attracted to children? Do you think a yeshiva is a place for that?”

I’m surprised this is controversial.
If there was a need I’d feel terrible if they DIDN’T create such a group
It sounds dangerous not to!

“You took one line and wrenched it out pf context.”

Um no I quoted almost a fifth of UJM’s post

“or would you bemoan the fact that the world had changed so drastically from what the Torah wants even for goyim?”

why is it either or? why can’t it be both?
We bemoan the fact the the world is getting more depraved while helping and supporting those who have this struggle

You deal with the reality at hand.
Once upon a time Yeshivas did not appreciate the severity of child abuse.
If we dug up a letter from an adom gadol written > 50 years ago in which he ” simply did not understand the far reaching psychological impact of abuse. … [and he felt thatl] disrupting major mosdos over it seemed like overkill.” Would that be relevent TODAY * ? I’m guessing you would say it isnt (please corrct me if I’m wrong)

I’m surprised this is controversial
Once upon a time the trauma of abuse wasn’t fully appreicated; today it is
Once upon a time hitting was deemed proper chinuch; today most mechanchim/gedolim say it is not for our dor
Once upon a time this was “abomination that the whole world despises.”; today it isnt
Yes obviosuly the aveirah didnt change. and I never suggested nor impied otherwise.
But our approach to those dealing with this YH can change

* I’m not asking about the view of him then

Avira

“Rabbeim have been helping people like this for decades; it’s nothing new.”

Yes! Nailed it! shalom al yisroel

“doesn’t mean that we disregard Rav Moshe”

Obviously.
Though I don’t understand what R Moshe has to do with this thread

“and this one is “acceptable” solely because the goyishe world sees it that way”

I don’t know what this means. YH is YH . If you have aa yetzer Harahan you deal with it. The gemara gives advice for a person who has a yetzer Harahan for murder. That does t mean it’s “acceptable ” but if that’s your struggle, hey become a shichst. Don’t pretend it does t exist.

Ujm
“Are you implicitly saying that Rav Moshe’s attitude and perspective on this issue expressed in the referenced teshuva is no longer acceptable in today’s day and age?”

And if I am?
Things change. Attitudes change circumstances change. Smoking was once allowed on Yom tov, many poskim say today ot is assur as it is no l9nger shava lchol mefesh. R Wolbe and R Shteyman both Saud hitting children is wring form of chinuch. Does that mean they ate implicitly saying previous approach is no longer acceptable? Things change approaches change. R Aron Feldman is familiar with R Moshe he takes a different approach.
Sure you can accuse him of lying (!!!) because it doesn’t got your narrative. Though that makes me sad for the abject spiritual poverty in the fabric-wearing community who don’t trust our gedolim

Avira
“that’s a normal yatzer hora, and it’s something every jew faces,”
speak for yourself, just because you struggle doesnt mean all do.

And what a strange claim, so the struggles you have are real struggles that warrant organizations and support. but other people who struggle aren’t entitled to support?

What a gross perspective,. Nay, an abomination!

“still didn’t look up the DG”M, don’t know if he says this or another sevara”

main reason is its a psik resihe on a D’rabanon especially since its K’lachar yad and mikalkel

vut removing the letters wouldnt help

There are 2 seperate melachos

Koreah/tearing
Mechika/erasing

Koreah has nothing to do with letters. Removing letters wouldnt remove koreah. If Koreah is a problem that is regardlesss of whther letters are present or not.
(As always correct me if I’m wrong)

The OP’s puzzlement is over the words that are torn. “full of words, everywhere,” this has nothing to do with koreah

“The go-to shabbos poskim, like shemiras shabbos kehilchasa, rabbi ribiat, rabbi simcha bunim ohen”
ITs a bit odd to dismiss the Nodeh Beyehudah (brought in MB) becasue the “go-to shabbos poskim” dont bring it though some do in footnotes, I havent checked which) . And it isn’t just mekalkel it is also psik reisha dlo nicha lei on a d’Rabanan.
Though without question the general minhag is to be machmir And I am not saying to change that.

I agree with the OP It is weird that hemishe companies don;t make it easier. (my last line in first comment was meant tongue in cheek)

Presumably they rely on the Dagul Mervava who argues on the Rema 340:3 and says it is muttar.

He concludes המחמיר יחמיר לעצמו ולא לאחרים. So even if the manufacturers themselves are machmir like the Rema, that is for their candies not yours

Yes

I retract my original comment
the Story surfaced, and while many of the orignial WhatsApp forwards were exaggerated the gist is right

CS

Here to answer all your questions ! !!!

Troll or not troll? – not troll

Kokosh with hot coffee or cold milk? – under age 16 milk over 16 coffee. Age 16 itself mix the two

Woodburne or Fallsburg? – Woodburne

Tums or Exlax on Motza? – Tums

what is the minhag of eating pizza on Motza? – Pizza is round like the moon but as slices are removed it gets smaller until a new pie is brought out, this reminds us of Kidush levana whcih there is minhag to do Motzoei Shabbos

or a half baked slice on Motza Peasch? – Since it isnt fully baked it can still rise to contrast with Matzah

What is the minhag of having a sushi platter at a vort? – Suchi is lashon of Sos osis which was the Haftorha for chasanim

What is the minhag of Horseradish with Geflite fish? – so that we cry thinking of the Liviyason’s mate that was killed

What is the minhag of yelling out Kohaleh during laining? – I give the answer in the thread you linked to

What is the minhag of serving Kichelech along side of the herring at the kiddush? – When eating on Shabbos we should progress through brias haolam Herring was day 5 (fish) kichel is day 3 (plant) it is improper to skip staright to day 5 so we have day 3 with it

What is the minhag of flushing twice using public toilets? – you answred this one

Avira
“They learn yiddish no differently than public school kids learn English.”

Please don’t lie.
Satmar doesnt have Yiddish grammar/vocabulary classes ( I wasn’t referring to literature) . definitely not past kitah beis. Public schools do (English not Yiddish).
You maintain they don’t need to, and they are doing just fine. “that’s not the focus of chasidishe chinuch.”
B’seder that’s fair .
In fact I essentially said that in the last paragraph (“It’s a bit weird…”) .

*

(Thsi is a side point to a pending post, it is important point I’d like to make though I dont want it to distract from that nice summary so I’m posting it here (plus to make it easier for the mods)

In my pending post I wrote “On the other hands Students that are fluent in English* can handle Regents like Darchei produces are “to a great or significant extent” similar to Public school even if they have never played an instrument .”

A point that often gets made is that so what if they are not fluent in English they are fluent in Yiddish .We don’t give a hard time to people who, say speak Spanish. Why doesnt Yiddish count .
(leaving aside the fact that to the best of my knowledge NO school and few if any parents teach kids only Spanish, and not want the kids to speak English)

It isnt really true. Kids don’t really learn yiddish. In mys chool yiddish was taught only until 2nd grade. From then on it is learnt by osmosi, and whatever comes up in learning. Now, it is not a big deal that I did not know that Yiddish like LAshon Kodesh has masculine/feminine nouns, I grant that isn’t important. The problem though is things that don;lt coem up in leanring they have zero/no knowledge about .

As you know I am a physiscan. I speak yiddish so I get a lot of Yiddish-speaking patients. Like any New York physycian I get a lot of spanish speaking patients too.

The Yiddish speakers have no idea about basic functions of the human body. I try to explain that a patient has kidney failure. Many of them don;t know what “niren” are (unless they learnt Zevachim sure in Chumash you translate “kelayos” as “niren” but what ARE they) I try explaining what diabetes is and elevated sugar which can lead to kidney failure/dialysis. but they just dont have the vocabulary for it, not in Yiddish and not in English.
with my Spanish patients, I use an interpreter line, and we can have a meaningful conversation.

I grant this is a side issue since Its a bit weird to say that you need English education in Elementary school, in case a person gets kidney failure down the line R”l . And USUALLY if I spend enough time they get it (not always). But this is but one example, and yes there are health networks and Liasons to help guide through the medical world. Presumably the lega lworld too.
So I dont expect you to find this a convincing argument, but it is a point worth making

“According to your verbatim quotation, you are asserting that the new regulations are basically saying that as long as the private school gives the Regents, even if 100% of the students fail the exam, the school has proven public school equivalency and they’re okay, correct? Because the regulation you quoted only says they have to give it.”

you’d have to ask a lawyer .
Though i guess the oard of regents would require a certain pass rate to remain registered.
But that is just a guess

“This response of yours is saying you believe that the Yeshivas should be forced to teach sex education.”
1) wouldn’t be so bad
2) I double checked the New regulations “sex education” dos not appear anywhere. If it does and I missed it please please share where.
As you know I love learning new things

“If you noticed over the years, I’ll almost never reprimand anyone for poor English.”
good because you switched from past tense to future tense in that sentence alone .
At least I think so, but again poor education

“It clearly indicates substantially everything taught in public schools is included in the law requiring equivalency in private schools”
you keep saying this. where are you getting this from. Can you cite any line of law, interpretation even a lay source that says this
“substantially” means “to a great or significant extent.” It essentially means NOT the same.
And again. so why aren’t we celebrating the new regulations, hope they get accepted. since they remove any ambiguity. and most yeshivas are already compliant ? and they are so much less restrictive than tha which is currently “required” by law (according to you)

“Are you saying that you don’t care if the government drops this whole issue and continues to let Yeshivas give 90 minutes of math and low-level English, and nothing else? ”

I don’t love Government involvement in chinuch. It could only lead to bad things.

“If so, what points are you trying to make in your various comments on this issue?

It shifted over the course of the three pages
But in a nutshell. Pointing out that the complaints is coming from Those who were within the system who are upset that they were “shortchanged” (in their view) and that they have a point.

I initially pointed this out to Besalel who missed the main point of the story. and then to eiddeee who completely missed thsi point