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1 – They’re all BTs? In what sense are they all the same?
1 – How do you define boring?
anon1m0us:
#1: What evidence do you have the Yidden in Germany davened for Hitler, Yidden in Iran davened for the Ayatollahs and Yidden in Syria davened for Assad?
#2: Are you saying that you’ll be happy if Yidden in Israel daven for the government with the same tefila Yidden in Australia daven for their government, and the RZs will stop denouncing Chareidim as such?
I’m just trying to clarify if there are limits. Should Yekkish Yidden living in Berlin in the ’30’s have davened for the National Socialist government of Germany or for its army or for its leaders’ wisdom?
In any event, the Religious Zionists aren’t simply demanding everyone say the same tefilia in Israel for the Israeli government as Jews in Australia say for the Australian government. They’re demanding a specially composed prayer for the Israeli Army and other miscellany not found in the standard traditional tefila for the local government of wherever Jews happen to live. So it is an apples to oranges comparison to make the connection to the general government tefila.
My question is generic, not specifically pertaining to any particular sale of a shul. Specifically my question is when a kehila shutters its doors and sells its shul, Torah’s etc., that were presumably funded by the public, who retains the funds received from the sale after closure.
anon1m0us: I take your silence to indicate you believe the Jews should have been davening for the government’s of the Czar, Stalin, Al Assad and the Ayatollahs.
Rramerican_yerushalmi and takes3tomakemangos: Well stated in all your points. You’ve left the leftists arguing with you stuttering the same disproven points repeatedly.
anon1m0us: Would you daven for the Ayatollahs leaders of Iran if you lived there? The Czar or Stalin if you lived in Czarist or Communist Russia? Al Assad if you lived in Syria? The Zionist regime is no different than those. Your pseudo-halachic argument, at near, applies no differently to Iran, Russia and Syria than it does to the Zionist state. Many Jews lived in all four of these countries.
iac: What makes a shul “private”? It is owned by an individual rather than the kehila since the shul was originally bought with personal funds by an individual who retained ownership since?
Any institution that does not support the state should have to depend on private donations and tuition. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Great idea. I’m glad we agree on something.
Members of such communities should be exempt from all taxation (VAT, income, business, etc.) as the government should not bite the hand that feeds it.
What are the funds received in the sale used for?
anon1m0us: And my rejoinder is that we will not serve in their army, nor will we leave Eretz Yisroel (where we’ve been long before the Zionist-come-lately’s got there) and nor will we one their laws if it mandates that we serve their state.
And if they intend to put us in jail, let them start building many new jails to house a hundred thousand Chareidim who will jam the streets of Tel Aviv and everywhere else grinding their state, traffic and commerce to an indefinite halt, with more Chareidim joining for everyone they jail.
manitou: For the sixth time you’ve purposely skipped answering the point made.
Why aren’t you denouncing that Israel exempts from army service government ministers, MKs, outstanding athletes, outstanding dancers, outstanding musicians, etc. from the draft? Whole classes of legal exemptions are granted and yet you only complain about the exemptions for those that learn Torah.
First stop all other exemptions. Such as of the dancers, musicians, athletes, MKs and government ministers. Then come back and we’ll talk about dropping exemptions for those who learn Torah.
Why are dancers, musicians, athletes, MKs and government ministers exempt from the draft? Doesn’t the IDF need them???
Avi: The Limud Torah of someone breaking their teeth over a gemora and taking a month to finish a daf due to his inability to learn more is just as valuable to Hashem and Klal Yisroel as someone who finishes Shas every month. One isn’t better than the other or doing a more valuable service.
Beis Medrash isn’t equivalent to serving in the army. Beis Medrash is a far higher service to the nation than serving in the army.
Why aren’t you schlemiels denouncing that Israel exempts government ministers, MKs, outstanding athletes, outstanding dancers, outstanding musicians, etc. from the draft? Whole classes of legal exemptions. Yet you only complain about the exemptions for those that learn Torah.
Dovid, your comparison of accidents to driving is applicable to commercial aviation, not general/private aviation. General/private aviation is much much more accident prone and a far higher fatality rate than commercial aviation.
You missed the point for the fifth time:
The Ran in Nedarim paskens that every Jew *today* has the absolute unabridged *unconditional* right to live anywhere in Eretz Yisroel.
The Ran in Nedarim further paskens that Dina D’Malchusa Dina does not apply, at any time, in Eretz Yisroel.
Bshtei: Rav Aharon Leib zt’l is also no longer with us, just like Rav Shmuel zt’l. Your listing of the “primary mesorah” is very far from universally agreed. Many others would place Rav Shmuel after his father, Rav Shach and Rav Elyashiv. Indeed, Rav Elyashiv himself held shittos in line with Rav Shmuel more than Rav Aharon Leib.
And it isn’t just Brisk and Satmar that holds of the same shittos as Rav Shmuel. It is many of the Litvishe Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel and America, including Rav Malkiel, Rav Ahron Feldman, Rav Ahron Schechter, Rav Yosef Harari-Raful, Rav Yaakov Horowitz (Telz), The Vialipole, Rav Wachtfogel, etc.
And despite your misconception, Klal Yisroel does not use the Yated as a guide to who is correct and consider other media outlets as incorrect.
The Ran in Nedarim paskens that every Jew *today* has the absolute unabridged *unconditional* right to live anywhere in Eretz Yisroel.
If Bill de Blasio was attempting to force Jewish children in Cheder to attend public schools with the threat of declaring them truants, otherwise, and having CPS seize them from their parents’ homes to place them into city foster care where they’ll be sent to the local public school, I suspect that the Peleg tzadikim interrupting city traffic and sanitation services to force the city to back down would be universally lauded as Jewish heroes and masses of people would be gathering by Rav Auerbach’s zt’l’s tzion to daven for brochos of success.
Neville: They offer subscriptions.
It’s not an option in any event since a) the Ran paskens every Jew has an absolute right to live in Eretz Yisroel and b) Israelis don’t have the right to move to any other country.
The safest solution is to simply fly commercial and forget about general/private aviation.
The army of the Zionist Entity will still attempt to draft you even if you leave Israel; so that’s not a solution.
GHD: Now that you have it on the cloud, please insure to arrange with Amazon to place their AWS servers into shaimos when they retire them with replacements.
Israel has the same halachic status that British Palestine and Ottoman Palestine had. For their army, for their laws and for their government.
The Ran paskens:
1. Every Jew has an absolute right to live in Eretz Yisroel.
2. Dina D’Malchusa Dina does not apply in Eretz Yisroel.
Flying on a private aircraft has a greater fatality rate than driving.
Mazal Tov, young lad!!
In any event, my friends, NY law only prohibits unsolicited advertising materials. The law specifically (due to constitutional issues) exempts periodicals, newspapers and opinion pieces from the law.
How do you guys think the Flatbush Jewish Journal is legally able to dump their paper on every door stop, unsolicited? I don’t hear APY & Co. complaining about that. Because it, also, is legal.
Yes, it certainly is, TLIK, as the purpose of reporting is a fine by the non-Jewish authorities.
What this thread indicates is that Lehovin is making a major impact in the American Chareidi community. No one gets so bent out of shape that The Marketeer is left at his door that he starts a Coffee Room thread complaining about it. Yet we’ve had multiple threads where we see complaints about Lehovin. If it weren’t making any impact, those opposed to the gedolim supporting it wouldn’t complain. They’d treat it like they do The Marketeer. What really bothers them is that people are really reading it and it is having a noticeable impact in the Litvish community.
chatzer strauss: Every private plane crash was piloted by someone who an FAA examiner saw fly and was issued a pilots license, indicating FAA/government belief he (may he RIP) was a safe pilot and qualified to fly.
Wow, HaGaon HaRav Aaron Schecher shlit”a is behind this paper?!
How do I subscribe?? I’d like to send gift subscriptions to everyone I love, if such a Gadol is behind it!
manitou: And there lies the problem with your misunderstanding of Limud Torah and what it accomplishes.
No, the comparative risk of a fatality — per mile taken or per trip taken (defining a trip as a motor vehicle ride versus a private plane ride) — is greater on a private plane trip than on a motor vehicle ride.
We’re not counting every fender bender or even every time someone hurt themselves on a short stop, even if they went to the hospital for a safety precaution, We’re speaking specifically and only of fatalities.
Good point, ubiq. It is the same principal when, to take an example, someone is fighting to promote tznius in the community and some people start yelling that isn’t the biggest problem in klal yisroel.
manitou: You failed to address the parallel that American_Yerushalmi provided you comparing it to the intelligence officers who work in offices behind computers and never enter any foxholes or front lines. Or, to use another example, the mechanics who fix the army jeeps; they too don’t fight as soldiers.
So too the Yeshivaleit who work in the Beis Medrash defending Jews all over. Like the intelligence unit, they too never wear the army fatigues.
apy: Orthodox Jews don’t engage in mesira. Most here are Orthodox.
As akuperman correctly pointed out, private planes have a much worse safety record than commercial airlines.
That’s the answer in a nutshell.
Why are you assuming that akuperman isn’t a lawyer?
So now since everyone agrees there’s a need both for full time Torah learners in Yeshiva as well as full time soldiers in the army, given the fact that less than 1% of the Jewish population in Israel seek to be full time Torah learners in Yeshiva, whereas a large percent of the population is happy to enlist in the Israeli army, we clearly realize there’s actually a shortage of full time Yeshiva men while there’s no shortage of full time soldiers.
Therefore anyone with any intelligence realizes we need to draft more men into Yeshivas. And that there’s no need for more men in the army, which is already fully staffed by the large majority of the Israeli population who refuses to learn Torah full time thereby leaving that very needed duty of more Torah study to those who volunteer to serve in the Yeshiva as Torah men.
The obvious conclusion is to not only allow but to encourage more men to go into Yeshiva rather than the army.
There are also people who started out as Conservative (or even Reform) and became very frum.
OO is in the same category as Reconstructists, Renewal, Reform and Conservative. Nothing to do with Orthodoxy or Judaism for that matter. Their converts aren’t Jewish, their witnesses aren’t kosher eidim, etc.
Many MOs have become Chareidim. Go to almost any Chareidi shul on Shabbos and you’ll find numerous members there who used to be MO or are from families that were MO.