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zahavasdadParticipant
LU
While DY and I debate about the Rambam , but you should read what the Rambam says about the moon. The Rambam is not Chazal, but read it anyway
zahavasdadParticipanteverything else are minors sociological details
Going from an agricultural based society to an urban based society is a not a minor sociological detail
Also major transfers of population centers has had a major effect
zahavasdadParticipantMost Moslems are NOT Arabs
The largest Islamic coutnry in the world in Indonesia.
Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Nigeria all have muselim populations greater than the entire Arab world and none of them are Arabs either
zahavasdadParticipant” I would say that your generalities are characteristics that apply to a majority, but not necessarily a definition.”
The Lvush points to a lifestyle. There is no Halacha to wear a Borsalano hat or a Streimel and its not assur to go without one.
There is nothing wrong with wearing a Rugby Shirt or khaki pants, but you wont see too many Chassidim or Yeshivish people wearing them
So in the sense that Haredism is a “lifestyle” it is a movement
Speaking Yiddish primarily or eating Hemish foods primarily are other examples of Lifestyle choices as opposed to Halacha
zahavasdadParticipantBut in any case, our beliefs are very important too. If we are not allowed to believe something, it is possible that it is kefira (at least on some level) to believe it.
If there was something in Chazal that was defiantly disproven without a shadow of a doubt, It cannot be Kefira to belive it. If Chazal ever said it cannot ever get dark in the middle of the day and you experienced a Solar Eclipse, If you belived the eclipse you just experienced actually happend, according to you, you are a Koifer
zahavasdadParticipantLU
There are plenty of Charedim who are Zionistic like I said before
Not that my defination counts, but Id say Charedim would be identified by the Lvush, The Dati Leumi dress more casual and modern
Without getting controversial, Charedi also belives in Daas Torah which Dati-Leumi doesnt on the same level
Charedi also tends to educate less secular Studies, Most Dati-Leumi have good secular education
zahavasdadParticipantAlbert Einstein, which is the most current science on the matter, stated in the theory of relativity that it is correct to state that the sun revolves around the earth, or to state that the earth revolves around the sun, as either description is functionally equivalent.
Actually he is not, We have sent Satellites into space. Voyager 1 and 2 have left the solar System and New Horizons is past Pluto near the Kuiper Belt. Cassini has gone to Saturn and there have been satellites to Jupiter.
Satellites can see the Sun and Earth from Angles not previously available
zahavasdadParticipantAccording to the Rambam a moon landing was not possible, While there are some (I heard Brisk) belive that the moon landings were fake.
Most gedolim today belive they happend
December 28, 2016 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm in reply to: Psak of Rav Kook on Chazal vs Scientists #1208779zahavasdadParticipantAll the things mentioned are not such a big deal
Now if there was somewhere in the Gemroah that Chazal said the Earth was Flat or that the Sun revolved around the earth…That would be a problem
zahavasdadParticipantThe current Kollel system could not exist without the existance of the Welfare State
Prior to World War one, if you did not work, you starved, There was no government help
zahavasdadParticipantI know quite a few charedim who are quite zionistic. Ive met Lakewood types and even Satmar who were Zionistic (More Lakewood ones than Satmar ones as I havent met too many Satmar people, but they ones I met were more Zionistic than I would have thought)
zahavasdadParticipantSephardim are a bit differnt
In general for example non charedim do not give much respect to the litvish or chassidic rebbes. Most of the non-religious probably couldnt even recognize their name
Even non-religious Sephardim generally respect their Gedolim like Rav Ovadiah Yosef
So the barriers between relgious and non religious Sephardim are much narrower than with Ashkenazim
December 28, 2016 11:24 am at 11:24 am in reply to: Psak of Rav Kook on Chazal vs Scientists #1208770zahavasdadParticipantAnother example is how we treat lice on Shabbos. We follow Chazal, not modern scientists.
Please explain
zahavasdadParticipantScientifically the differnece between a fruit and a vegitable has to do with the Seeds, Im not exactly sure, but it has to do how you get seeds.
You can get tomato seeds from a tomato, however you cannot get Radish Seeds from a raddish.
Haetz or Hadama has nothing to do with a fruit or vegitable, but rather how the item grows. Something that grows in a tree is Haaetz and something that grows in the ground is Haadama. An Avacodo is Haatez and a Melon is Haadama
zahavasdadParticipantThere are safer ways to remind people they are not Yotze than throwing towels at a person holding a fire.
And have have to make fences around things, Just because the idea is just to throw a towel or 2 nowhere near the person, some people disregard this and are throwing at the person hold the fire. Just like we must make other Takanos to prevent bad things from happening
zahavasdadParticipantThrowing towels at someone holding a fire is not exactly the smartest minhag
Whatever the reason might be for trying to get the person to lose Kavanah, you should use a safer way than throwing towels near a fire.
I was told by a Rav how many yidden were R’L in the burn unit at Staten Island Hospital because fire wasnt taken seriously
zahavasdadParticipantLU
The claim is the Charedi Judaism is the same today as it was in the Rema’s time and I am telling you its not. I doubt even the Vilna Gaon would recognize many things that occur today. He of course we see jews daving, keeping Shabbos, Kosher etc, but I can see him being perplexed by people eating out on a Tuesday night with a meal that is better than the food on Shabbos
zahavasdadParticipantI am not sure when the more Modern Orhtodox began, but I know it began in the 19th Century when Jews migrated from small villages to Urban areas.
Moving from small villages to urban areas has big effects on people, nobody is immune to them.
There were always jews in Urban areas like Prague. but they were the minority until the 19th century. Vienna for example only had a small jewish presence until the 19th century
zahavasdadParticipantI am going to give you some changes, These by themselves are not major but as a whole are very differnet
People had chickens and went to the local shochet to slaughter them and they kashed them, themselves.Today people go to the supermarket and buy pre-packaged chicken
Eating at a restaurant, Buying premade food from Meal mart or just catering did not really exist. People cooked for simchas themselves
Weddings many times occured Friday Afternoon (except in Krakow) so the Seudas Mitzvah was also the Friday night meal (Money was tight)
People rarely travelled outside their immediate areas especially for a short time, Today travelling is a regular thing and has its own issues.
You really have to admit that its differnet living in a small Shtel vs living in Brooklyn, Its a very different style of living.
LIving in the US or Israel is not the same as living in Lithiuania or Russia/Ukraine
Most people do not live in an agrarian society and live in Urban areas and the living is different
None of these things makes anyone more or less religious, Just a different lifestyle and as a whole would look very different to someone from the 19th century Shtetl
zahavasdadParticipantCharedi is just the term people use to describe Yeshivish or Chassidim as opposed to the prejorative Ultra-Orthodox.
The lines where Dati Leumi ends and where Charedi begins are somewhat blurred as there were people in Israel where I wasnt exactly sure who they were (Peyes are not common among MO in the US, but I did see people who seemed to dressed more modernly with very thick peyos)
The Pograms, persecutions and poverty in the 17th century (And before) were really getting to people and people were losing hope, Them Chelminski massacare were really a major blow. Shabbatai Tzvi came along and gave them hope and when he turned out to be a fraud, people really lost hope. There was a major crisis in Judaism and faith. in the 18th Century the crisis had not abated and Jacob Frank came along and it became worse.
Most people were not able to meet the ideal of torah study all day and so Chassidism came along and said you could still be a frum jew and not have to be a scholar, you could have stories of Rebbeim , Zimirot, Dvekas and still be a good jew. Misnadgish felt this was Kefirah and said they were wrong and made intensive torah study and some other changes were done.
Yes people were religious before this crisis of Faith and they were relgious after the Baal Shem tov and the Vilna Gaon, however some things (not actual Mitzvoh, but some other things) did change so the Charedim of today are not exactly the same as frum Jews in the 17th Century (Shabbos, Kosher, davening, etc are the same)
Im not sure exactly when , but after world world 2, the divisions between Chassidism and Misnadish (now called Yeshivish) began to break and they began to get closer and each took things from the other. (Empahsis on Rebbes became stronger in Yeshivish and emphasis on Torah Study became stronger in Chassidish communities)
zahavasdadParticipantWe are speaking about specifically Chabad, and he had issues with them even before the Rebbe passed away
zahavasdadParticipantLU
You do not have to agree with Rav Shach either, I am not a Chabadnick, but I respect many things that they do, Rav Shach was an old time misnagid.
It does not make you a Koifer if you think Chabad does many good things.
zahavasdadParticipantThe Torah teaches us that Hashem accepts our teshuva lovingly and desires that we come close to him, and that work is meaningful even if we are imperfect creatures. And that Hashem is fair in judgement, not a sadistic tormentor.
According to some here, Every event, no matter where it is, is a message from hashem we should do tshuva, and my whole point was Its not so and cannot be so , especially nowdadys when we hear about the latest events almost instantanious from places we never heard of and cannot easily find on the map without help
zahavasdadParticipantBDE
zahavasdadParticipantRav Avigdor Miller is not the final Posek on the causes of the holocaust, many including the Lubavicher Rebber disagree with him
“Expanding on Avram in MD’s post, if one feel drawn to search Google for natural disasters and tragedies, the appropriate response to becoming aware of these events would be take them to heart and have at a minimum a hirhur of teshuva”
Saying we are all sinners and need to do tshuva sounds very similar to a philosophy of a relgion started by a man whose big birthday bash is coming up this weekend
zahavasdadParticipantI know someone who cannot grow a beard (afaik the facial hair is very thin and only grows in small light patches). This person is MO.
The Kaliver Rebbe cannot grow a beard due to medical experiments in Auschwitz
zahavasdadParticipantI am saying tradgeties happend before and nobody never even knew about, Today I can google and I can find out about the latest tragedy.
Do your really think Hashem was warning jews to do tshuva about some earthquake somewhere in the middle of Pacific that nobody even knew about? Some of these earthquakes we only know about them.
In 1908 a comet or some other extra terrestrial object hit in the middle of Sibera (Its called the Tunguska event) the exact details were not exactly known at the time and more information was not discovered until the 1920’s, when some exploration was able to be done in the area and much more is not known. How many Gedolim wrote about this event at the time it happend and told us to do tshuva for it.
zahavasdadParticipantMA
I posted yesterday about the Earhtquake in Equador, Today there was an Earthquake in the Solomon Islands. Likely you never heard of either (Only a google search turned them up) Exactly how are these events on account of Klal Yisroel.
These events were not really major news story and only came up by googling and werent even covered by US news media.
Im sure if you google almost any disaster one will come up within the last 24 hours somewhere in the world
zahavasdadParticipantThere was an Earhtquake today in Ecuador, 5.8 magnitude and 2 people died
How many people even know about it
zahavasdadParticipantThe periodically clean the kotel notes anyway. Otherwise the wall would be too full to take new ones. there was an article I saw on another site describing the process with photographs
zahavasdadParticipanttradegies were always part of the jewish community. In fact in most shuls more people were saying Kaddish than not , so they had to limit the number of people saying Kaddish
The difference is today we have “instant news” so we know about something that happens in another part of the world almost instantanious.
In prior generations do you really think the jews of Pressburg knew that a small baby died in Bagdad? Of course not, Tradgities are actually less today than they were in previous generations
zahavasdadParticipantThe look is differnt. Most Dati Leumi women wear sandals (As do the men)
Also the blouses are differnt and for the men, its very differnt. Most Dati Leumi dont seem to wear suits (Unlike the US, but MO men rarely wear hats)
I cant say about Litvish, but also chassidic seem to walk differently (At least in the US)
Its easier to tell what camp someone is in, than you think
zahavasdadParticipantDoes the “rent-a-jew” include an all expense paid trip to Germany, I might consider it then
zahavasdadParticipantLU
Obviously I dont know who you are, but I am fairly certain you are charedi and look the part. The women who came up to you in the bus station to admonish you for not braiding your hair, probably thought you were charedi and in her camp
I really doubt she would have said anything to you if she thought you were chiloni or Dati Leumi
zahavasdadParticipantThis is our experience in More charedi neighborhoods
Unless you are REALLY Untzniut (Meaning something like shorts and Tank Tops or something along those lines) they generally know who is charedi and who isnt , and if you arent charedi, they dont really bother you
zahavasdadParticipantMeno: “There are situations where in order to be accepting of other people you would have to compromise on your own values. Not saying there’s no way around it, it’s just very difficult. It’s not as simple as just “getting along”.”
Its quite rare when this happens, Most of the time you think this is the case, it really can be worked around
zahavasdadParticipantAchdus requires a bit of Ellu v Ellu
zahavasdadParticipantChinuch Atzmai schools have tution, Not sure why though
December 15, 2016 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm in reply to: renting an apartment in lakewood for a month #1200522zahavasdadParticipantPeople who live in more Suburban areas, move there because they want less crowded housing, they want single family homes with grass , garages and backyards and they want their neighbors to also have the same.
Frum familes who live in the Suburbs want more townhouse type houses with more congested living (but less congested than Brooklyn) than the Suburbs usually have and this causes conflict because there are different visions of what the suburbs should look like.
December 15, 2016 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm in reply to: renting an apartment in lakewood for a month #1200519zahavasdadParticipantYou just cant build more, Besides the roads there are sewer and power lines issues.
I dont find the roads there that bad (I dont drive much on route 9 as I usually come from the parkway). its the lack of Sidewalks and adequte street lights that scare em a bit (I was a bit scared walking in the street in an unlighted street)
December 15, 2016 11:56 am at 11:56 am in reply to: renting an apartment in lakewood for a month #1200516zahavasdadParticipantLakewood is growing at the seams, there is not enough housing there so people are moving to nearbhy communities like Jackson and Toms River
zahavasdadParticipantDo Chadishe hashghcas ever rely on Triangle-K?
zahavasdadParticipantThere was one bid of $9700
zahavasdadParticipantThe OU is the most recognizable hashghcha, They have a name that no other Hashghcha comes close to. If they would make a mistake everyone would find out fairly quickly and they would shut down.
the name is worth more than anything, A good name is the most valuble asset
zahavasdadParticipantYou can sell A Siyum OFF EBAY and make any terms you want, If you own a Judaica Store on 13th Ave, but when you sell on their platform you have to obey their rules, it is a secular platform, so you have to follow secular rules. They do not have to let you sell on their site if they dont want you too.
I know people who got kicked off for various reasons and tried to sue and they were not able to win
zahavasdadParticipantYou can always make your own terms, However those terms cannot be against ebay rules
for example you cannot say, I only accept cash (ebay rules only allow paypal for shipped items)
And you cannot say JEWS ONLY, discrimnation is against ebay rules and the dispute resolution , eBay is very specific about dispute resolutions, you have to accept their eBay resolution service.
BenBagBag,
Do you actually sell on ebay, or are you just saying what you think the law is. ive been on ebay for some time , ive sold Millions of dollars on ebay. I know the rules, you have to know them otherwise they will kick you off
zahavasdadParticipantYou can add rules to the eBay rules, but you cannot make a rule against their rules
Secondly, where does eBay address whether an auction for a religious observance has to be open to all parties?
If a non-jew would win the auction, and they dont want it cancelled, the seller must either provide the goods or services or take the consequence (and that could mean being kicked off the site)
What the seller should have done is make a Pre-approved bidder listing, That means someone has to contact the seller to get eligible to bid, The seller could just ask the persons name and location and then when Christine O’Connor applies, He could just say she isnt eligible without giving a reason)
zahavasdadParticipantAre you allowed to give Tzdekah from “ill gotten gains”? even if unintentionally
zahavasdadParticipantA side note, there are people selling Tfillin on eBay and I onced asked one of the sellers how he could do so , He could not gurnatee a jew would buy them and the rules are you have to sell to the buyer if they insist
The seller said he would try to pay off buyers whom he thought should not have them (ie a buyer named Christine O’Connor)
zahavasdadParticipantZD, what happens if a buyer asks to be released from his commitment and the seller agrees? Do either of them suffer any consequences?
If both agree, there is no consequence, its only a problem if one doesnt consent. usually both sides will agree because its in the benefit of both to do so (but not always)
As far as the relgious discrimination clause at the bottom
eBay is a private company and has the right to dictate the rules when you use their platform. You cannot choose your own rules that overstep their rules.
If their rules are anyone can bid, then you must obey those rules. if you dont like the rules, you need to pick another platform
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