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Most Charedi Shuls even if larger are still usually Shteibels. It might be set up as a Non-Profit Corporation, but its still owned by the Rav.
I knew of an unfortuante situation of a Shteibel that when the Rav died, his heirs had decided to sell off the building and get the money. The people who davened there were upset as they had paid the expenses for the shul (including the mortgage) and were now left high and dry with nothing to show for it.
Brookykn is now considered Hip and Cool (nothing to do with Jews) and alot of people want to live in Brooklyn now, the prices are just going up up up.
Lakewood is not cool so people (except for frum jews) dont want to live there and the prices can be lower
Its a higher form of Tzedah to give someone a job or if you are not in a position to do so, help them get one
Not all MO shuls have staffs.
However MO shuls and Charedi shuls are generally set up different. In Charedi Shuls , the shul is the Rabbi’s. He owns the shul, He owns the property and raised his own money to build it. and can make the rules. He answers to nobody. Usually in MO shuls, they are run by a board of directors and the Shul is owned by a non-profit corproation that owns the shul and pays the Rabbi. The Rabbi answers to the board of directors and they can remove him if need be, they also gurantee his salary , that he will get what is promised .
When you have 8 kids , your #1 responsibility is taking care of those kids. Making sure they are properly fed, Have decent clothes are healthy and have a decent roof over your head.
That trumps any other responsibility
I have quite close family members who are Kollel families. They are not close enough to me to reveal the finances, generally that is a taboo subject even when Kollel is not an issue.
Because they are quite close I do get information in bits and pieces and you can piece together a puzzle with a pretty good guess
$400 here too
Shuls have expenses, Buildings arent free to operate. Con Ed needs to get paid, Shuls need to be kept clean
The Rabbi needs to get paid, the building fund needs to be paid off, etc
There is no mitzvah to specifically give to any community or specific charity , you can give to any place you want
I think most Missionaries quote Isaiah and very few frum jews learn Isaiah
The Borsilano Thread?
I didn’t really read that thread, but seriously I did really hear about Boys who were promised things to marry a girl and the girls parents could not afford them. Many kids today were bought up on nice things and expect to have those things when they get married and don’t realize that when you learn in Kollel they are a luxury, in fact many are luxuries even if you work a normal job
And what if you Rav says, Hashem will provide and you are maxed out on your credit cards, There is no food in the house and the kids are Hungry, the rent is due, the creditors are calling you on the phone and you new Son-in-Law demands a new Borsilano Hat or he will divorce your daughter and no new money comes in. (I have heard recently of a number of cases where a new son-in-law demanded some luxury item and thretend to go to Beis Din because the In-Laws couldn’t pay for it)
I am not talking about a Borsalino hat, I am talking about more basics like Food and Rent. Lack of proper nutitioin is becoming an issue.
Avi K if people see pronouncements like this and ignore them and maybe even think they were misled they will begin to question other pronoucements as well. And you are on your road to OTD
IMO the Yeshivish community will survive, however the poverty will be deeper and deeper and many people will just grin and bear it, There will be more people going OTD because they cant feed and support their families however with the high birthrate these people will easily be replaced and become expendable
Poverty has probably been the #1 reason people went OTD
Many people converted to Chrisitianity because there were no economic opportunties as jews.
As jews became emaciapated in Europe people left the Shtetels for better economic opportunties and left the shtel. People emigrated to the US because of economic opportunity.
People were starving and needed to feed their families. Many jews became communists because people were starving and needed economic opportunities.
The gloryfing Poverty failed miserably in the past. For every jew who stayed alot more left
Rav Ovadiah Yosef disagrees with this, He allowed his daughter Adinah Bar Shalom to open Charedi College and when he was alive he taughter classes there.
In israel its customry for students to go to the Kotel on Shabbos and get invited for meals. A couple of seminary girls went and were invited to someone and they seemed kinda poor and the piece of chicken leg seemed of poorer quality. They were guests and did not want to say anything
The family had a 3 or 4 year old daughter and while they were eating the kid somehow said that mommy would reward her for giving up her chicken leg so the orchim could eat (Or something similar basically saying the shabbos food went to the guests and not the children). The girls felt terrible they had eaten food from a hungry little girl.
The Rav’s Daughter was discouraged from taking the job from her husbands Rav . The Rav in the US wanted his daughter to take the job and was disapointed she did not take it.
I cant say Hashem would be too proud if someone did something that people would frown upon in the name of torah like giving the section 8 rent money to the parents.
I am certain that Rabbis Kotler, Neuman, Shustal and Olshin would disagree.
🙁 And Yes I do expect frum people to behave above the law. Why do you thnk there are gedarim for things that arent assur.
Maybe I am mistaken, but a Frum person should behave properly like Hashem wants us too and not teeter on the ledge of things that are sketchy.
I cant say Hashem would be too proud if someone did something that people would frown upon in the name of torah like giving the section 8 rent money to the parents.
I have heard from people like Berel Wein that people in Israel are DISCOURAGED from working.
I heard of a story from a Rav here whose daughter married someone from Bnei Brak. Since she was from the US she spoke perfect english and a few places wanted to hire her since she spoke perfect english. She was discouraged from taking these jobs.
And why is this a problem? If the government is willing to pay able-bodied people to sit and study religion, why should you have any qualms with it (as long as it is done legally?)
This is the united States not Israel. There is no Stipend for Kollel in Lakewood from the US Government.
People do things that might be legal, but are sketchy and do leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. Like In-laws buying a house and then renting to children and the government pays the rent to the parents via section 8. This might be legal, but its not something people would like.
Or people simply getting paid off the books so they are eligible for more government subisidies
I happen to know many Kollel Families, They actually happen to be family members. However it is not place to to ask the real questions so one must guess what the real situation is. They would never admit the real situation
You can tell by their overall appearence , things like being emaciated. Going to their houses , seeing their clothes etc are hints what the real sitatuation is.
A few had admitted to me that “Programming” (Meaning government Programs) was one of things they did.
FYI It is averiah to rely soley on hashem’s miracles for help. One is not allowed to go in the middle of the BQE and ask Hashem to save you.
One cannot rely on a miracle for Parnassah, One cannot buy a lottery ticket and expect hashem to give you the winner so you learn all day. Relying on Hashem means send out job resumes, Go to Work and then Hashem will help provide you
Please answer the following Math problem
A couple gets engaged and the father of the Bride offers to support the son-in-law in Kollel and their kids. The couple have 10 child K’H 5 boys and 5 girls.
The Womans father passes and now it becomes time for their children to get engaged. The husband has been in Kollel his whole life. The 5 boys marry girls whose father supports them and now the girls want to marry Kollel guys and have this couple support them
Figure each of the girls has 5 children each for a total of 25 kids. Add in the daughters and their husbands for a total of 35 people and the original couple for a total of 37 people.
How can someonme who learned in Kollel their entire life support 37 people and It doesnt take a Lapid or me to tell you its impossible
It is not Bittual Torah to get a job and work
When the couple sees that $1100 starter Bare Bones apartment, they think it will look similar to what they lived in before they were married, and if course its not.
Touro is overpriced for not such a good degree
Most commuter colleges (CUNY Schools) are basically just people who go in morning and leave after classes. There are no parties or anything like that. Most people just go for the degree.
I cannot comment on Brookdale, but I saw its a NJ Communitity college and likely to be similar to CUNY schools
If you do not shovel and salt you CAN BE SUED and you are liable for damages
They dont know what anything costs especially relative to income however with rents I have first hand knowledge. I can see the look on peoples faces when I tell them the rent which is very resoable, the space is small however. Its no mansion for sure and probably more cramped than what they were used to living in. They think they are going to get a house for next to nothing
I didnt say anyone should stiff a landlord, However if they are forced to move its better for a single than a couple with kids.
People who dont pay rent have no idea how expensive it is.
I am a landlord and I am renting out an apartment. What I am charging is quite cheap for NY and you would be suprised how many people think I am ripping them off, they have no clue what rents really cost
And to tie in the OP, Someone must have heard somewhere about knitting on Motzei Shabbos and dedcided this was the halacha and told someone else. Now Subsitute eating Pizza instead of Knitting. Someone heard it was assur to eat Pizza on Motzei Shabbos and told someone else and now they think they are doing wrong by eating Pizza on Motzei Shabbos.
So if I want to publish a book, I should refrain, because Heaven forbid someone outside of my intended audience may find it, read it, and get offended? Sorry, it’s a free country, and R’ Meisels can publish whatever he wants. Nobody commanded you to buy it and adhere to every letter
I guess in a book about Shabbos and not a book about Gedolim
Its better before because if you get into trouble before marriage, Its much easier to get out than if after marriage and with kids.
If you cant pay your landlord when single and have to move, its not pretty but its doable, however with a spouse and Kids its much more difficult
It is sad, you need to be on your own a bit to know how the real world works. You have to remember to pay your rent/mortgage con ed etc. Mommy and daddy arent going to do it anymore and you have to learn the consequences of not doing these things. Its not a potch from Tatty.
A Yak is an animal that lives in the Himalayas, Its related to a Cattle or Bison
I think Gehenom froze over, I agree with A mamin 100%.
I fell a few years ago and it wasnt fun, It even changed my walk
It has become to the point where everything is Torah or Bittel Torah. Not everyone can learn for every free moment of their day. Many people need breaks, they need to get out of the Beis Medrash and have their minds on something else (If you dont feel this way I am not talking to you, but many people do feel this way) A break can be a healthy activity
I hope none of you Drive Fords. Henry Ford was a Huge Anti-Semite and likely caused many jews to die in Nazi hands as he helped close the door to immigration from Europe to the US
What was Gedolim’s response to someone who was not listening to their Psak, would not likely listen and any Tochacha might or did more harm than good
There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion
I dont know why the woman did not use a cloth towel instead of Paper towels nor do I not know the reason why she did not ask a Rav what to do. Not everyone asks a Rav every Questions.
I know someone who runs a Halacha Hotline and he told me a woman used to call him up in a Southern Drawl and speak to him unlike he was used to (Not disrepctectful, just different . Like speaking to him in second person and not 3rd person) . He thought she was some sort of joker or Prankster. It turned out she was the daughter from a Rav from a yeshiva in Atlanta , GA and had recently gotten married and moved to NY. Some people might have answered her thinking she was an annoying nudnick or prankster instead of speaking to her properly. This can turn off some people.
When you write a book, you need to know who your audience is. Rav Mesisels I think is a Satmar Chassid and the book I quoted from seemed to be almost a book on Chasidus . I have rarely seen such a book like this written in English. He has also written an “Art Scroll” Biography on the Satmar Rebbe. You have to know who your audience is. Perhaps this book should have been written in Yiddish and not english. The Anglo crowd is different than the Yiddish crowd and this book did not seem to be aimed at Yeshivish Anglos either. More at the modern crowd (By the english it was written in, it was not written as Lomdus)
Not every Sefer is meant for every person.
People want to boycott Mercedes because they were in the camps, but do buy Bayer and BASF products who made the Zykon B Gift gas.
Frankly I have been in Germany and I saw plenty of other jews there
The reality is its almost impossible to boycott German products .Its easy not to buy a Mercedes or a Volkswagen but almost impossible to boyctt Bayer.
And how many people here buy Gasoline which comes from Saudi Arabia whose money goes to support terrorism. There is really nothing you can do in a world economy
We just read Pashas Manna this week
The Manna fell and even for the Tzadikkim the Manna only fell by their front door and they had to go outside and get it, it did not fall on their Kitchen Table ready to eat
BASF , Bayer and AGFA are all companies that were spun off from IG Farben who made the Zykklon B Gift Gas for Auschwitz.
I am well aware that Bayer no longer holds the patent on Aspirin, I said they invented it, but they still sell Bayer Aspirin
Other well known German companies are SAP (A software company) and Siemens (A multinational copration that makes lots of stuff)
The Euro is essential a German Currency as its basically controlled by Germany (and to an extent France)
And finally you might as well boycott IBM as well since they made the Punch cards that helped automate the mass executions
I should hope you dont take Aspirin, it was invented by Bayer
And when you buy tape dont buy BASF
In many communities Dairy is not eaten on Shabbos or Yom Tov even Shavout.
There is a feeling by some its not a seudah unless its Meat or Chicken so some fancy Fish dish or Fancy Dairy dish would not be valid, Kal V’Chomer Pizza which is a more informal dish . They probably would not serve Hot Dogs or Hamburgers either
The reason people dont eat Pizza on Shabbos is because it doesnt work (unless you eat cold Pizza)
I gurantee that if you had a poll chulent or Pizza, Pizza would win hands down especially among those who grew up in the United States (Maybe some older people wouldnt appreciate it and I know some people from Europe who didnt understand Sushi)
DaMoshe yes it is a blood libel do u see the media obess about any other community as they do the frum, case closed
You obviously dont read the newspaper, they are constantly going after the Catholic church and Pope Benedict liklely resigned because of it. They are going after the catholic church hard.
I have ZERO tolerence for abuse
I dont think jews were allowed to live in the Kingdom of Naples and Sicily (Italy was a bunch of city states until the 1850’s)
But the point is correct that maybe jews from Eastern Europe did eat Chulent , Kugel etc, but who is to say what jews from other places ate regularly. “Hemish Foods” was really just foods borrowed from the local cuisine.
It’s actually not completely crazy to say that one should not have Milchigs by meleva Malka (I cannot say I’m makpid but…).Because the only gemorah that speaks about Meleva Malka doesnt say to wash/eat bread. It says that a certain Amora would Shecht an animal an eat it on Motzei Shabbos. So the only mekor in the gemorah is with Fleishigs.
Milchig vs Fleishig was not mentioned in this paragraph only that somehow Hemish foods (Chulent , Kugel, etc) was more “Kadosh” than Pizza because our ancestors did not eat Pizza in Europe
The Pizza is just a sympton. No I dont think someone will go OTD because they cant have Pizza on Motzei Shabbos
But Food can make someone go OTD. I was once at someones house and the kid did not want to eat chulent because he did not want to be fleshig. The father then forced the kid to eat the chulent. I told that story to someone else who went OTD and they told me that is exactly what happend to them. They hated Shabbos for that as it became a struggle to eat the chulent.
Hamaser = Hamavaser, the Israeli Newspaper that photoshopped out the women from the picture .
As far as the higher rates of OTD among the more modern as opposed to the more charedi, IMO the reason is not Kulas as much as its just easier to leave. I cant tell you if the average Satmar loves yiddishkeit as the average Young Israel member, but I can tell you for that Young Israel member can much easier vanish into the greater world without much difficulty unlike the Satmar who has to change their appearence, Accent, social norms etc.
About Lifnei Iver, Even if you keep a certain Halacha (Halacha in the sense where some hold Issur and others Muttar) , you probably also know plenty of frum jews might not keep the same Halacha. I am sure those they keep only Chalav Yisroel are more than aware that plenty of frum jews hold by the O-U and eat Hagaden Daaze Ice cream unlike say Pork where no frum jew would eat.