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How The CIA Got KSM To Talk


Accused 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed appeared at a military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay Navy Base in Cuba Saturday.

In the end, it was the prospect of a nap that made 9/11 terror mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed sing like a canary.

“Even with waterboarding, he was counting on his fingers, because he knew we would stop at 10, so he wasn’t terribly intimidated by that,” ex-CIA official José Rodriguez Jr., told The Post.

“It was the sleep deprivation that finally got him.”

Still, the man described as the Hannibal Lecter of al Qaeda wasn’t easy to crack.

It took two weeks to break him after he was nabbed in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, in 2003 and quickly squirreled away to a secret CIA prison called a “black site.”
CIA officers started on him slowly, asking the Kuwaiti-born terrorist if he planned to cooperate.

He chanted Koranic verses in defiance.
He was asked about Osama bin Laden.
No answer.

He was asked about future terror plots.
“Soon you will know.” The answer cast a pall on the room.

‘We couldn’t idly sit by and wait for a chance to bond with our detainee or for him to see the error of his ways and open up to us,” Rodriguez, 64, writes in his new book, “Hard Measures.”

Rodriguez, who oversaw the CIA’s interrogation and detention program, stridently defends the techniques used to extract information from detainees, saying the methods were all legally sanctioned by the Bush administration — and thwarted terror plots.

“No one enjoyed doing it, but we were absolutely convinced that [high-level detainees] had information in their heads that would save countless American lives. We were right.”

He says there were no similarities between the interrogation techniques his officers used and the Army troops exposed for illegally abusing Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison. Each CIA method was fully cleared by an array of lawyers, who were ubiquitous, Rodriguez explains.

When Mohammed refused to cooperate, the agency’s “enhanced interrogation techniques” kicked in, Rodriguez writes.

Mohammed, 48, was subjected to a range of methods. They may have included dietary restrictions, where prisoners wore diapers and were fed only the dietary shake Ensure. Leaving detainees naked in their cells was also used.

And there was “walling,” in which interrogators pushed him backwards in a small plywood-walled room so that his shoulder blades bounced off the wall with a “boom.”

“We were after the shock value,” Rodriguez says.

Other “corrective techniques” included the “attention grasp,” where a detainee is grabbed on both side of the collar and yanked towards the interrogator; the “facial hold” where an interrogator places a hand on each side of the detainee’s face and holds it immobile; and the “insult slap,” where the person is slapped between the chin and the bottom of his earlobe.

“More than one detainee expressed surprise when slapped, and told the interrogator, ‘Hey, you aren’t supposed to do that!’ The al Qaeda training manual told them that Americans would treat them with kid gloves!” Rodriguez writes.

But KSM was unlike any of the 30 other CIA detainees subject to such techniques: He was “scary smart” and evil, Rodriguez says. He was one of only three prisoners waterboarded by the United States. But Mohammed knew his interrogators would never kill him, so he coolly remained impassive as he was waterboarded 183 times, Rodriguez says.

“He seemed to have figured out that we weren’t going to push things too far,” Rodriguez says.

But Mohammed’s weakness was his inability to resist sleep deprivation.
The first day he was in custody, Mohammed — who attended college in Greensboro, NC — initially pretended to only speak Urdu, fooling no one.

Officers forced him to stand, and after hours of questioning, his weakness for shut-eye began to show.

“Here’s the deal,” an interrogator said. “I know you speak English. I want you to politely ask me to let you go to sleep.”

The idea was to demonstrate to Mohammed “that he was no longer in control,” Rodriguez says. Officers would later keep him awake for 180 hours straight — 7 1/2 days. Loud noises and stress positions — where a detainee is shackled and forced to stand, putting intense pressure on the leg muscles — were used.

“It was much kinder than anything he would have done to an American captive, like Danny Pearl,” said Rodriguez, referring to the Wall Street Journal reporter Mohammed admitted to personally beheading in 2002.

When he finally folded, officers couldn’t get him to stop talking.

“Once they understand that they’ve come to the limits of their strength that their god will give them, they cooperate because they cannot resist beyond their strength,” explains Rodriguez, who said information extracted from Mohammed helped foil a range of terror schemes, including 9/11-style attacks on the West Coast in 2003.

Rodriguez contends information obtained from Mohammed and fellow terrorist Abu Zubaydah accounts for more than 50 percent of the terror-plot section of the 9/11 Commission report.

Mohammed was arraigned yesterday at Guantanamo Bay on charges of terrorism and murder in the 9/11 attacks that killed 2,976 innocent people. He faces the death penalty if convicted.

Although he acted defiantly in court, Rodriguez said KSM would like nothing more than a forum to preach radical Islam.

“This is a process that will continue for a long time,” Rodriguez said. “I have heard he may plead not guilty, and if he does, he’ll use the [legal] process as his platform . . . to talk about his jihadist beliefs.”

One of Mohammed’s frequently stated goals was to be put on trial in civilian court in New York — which nearly happened until Congress last year blocked the Justice Department from transferring any Guantanamo Bay detainees to the United States.

“It seemed to us that he was looking for a platform from which he could spout his hatred for all things American, and a trial would certainly present that opportunity,” Rodriguez writes. “It strikes me as more than a little ironic that several years later, Attorney General Eric Holder almost granted KSM his wish.”

(Source: Reuters)



10 Responses

  1. So how reliable are his “confessions.” As was demonstrated in “show” trials throughout history, almost anyone will confess to anything. If they had demanded he confess to having caused global warming, or to causing the Yankess to lose a home series to the Orioles, he would have. If he was engaged in military activities, we should have treated him as a Prisoner of War, and held him for the (infinite) “duration” – without a trial (it isn’t illegal to be a soldier),and without publicity.

  2. It strikes me as more than a little ironic that several years later, Attorney General Eric Holder almost granted KSM his wish

    It’s not ironic, it’s entirely in character.

  3. I know many of you will not agree with me on this but I’ll say my piece anyways.

    I am of the opinion that any guy who is convicted of the crimes he has allegedly committed and orchestrated deserves absolutely no mercy at all. However, it is not enough to just do justice. Justice must be seen to be have been done. And that means even by the muslim world.

    I am actually quite suprised at the methods detailed above in obtaining his confession. The muslim world and his lawyers will argue that he only confessed to stop the torture. And torture it certainly was. So we may now get reprisals and revenge attacks because of it. Yes I know many would have happened anyway. But this is another reason or excuse the extremist muslims will use to justify themselves.

    If these methods were applied in order to prevent, or even only possibly prevent, more attacks then of course any torture, even genuine torture, is justified in my opinion. But if they were only used to extract a confession for something already committed and is now history then it will be very difficult to justify to those on his side of the argument.

    Already the fact that he was not granted a regular civil court but a military one and in gito bay has already lost the respect and trust of many. They have successfully tried many terrorists in civil courts. Why hand a victory to him by denying him this? Will the average muslim who may have agreed to a civil court ruling now claim there was no fair trial and therefore no justice?

  4. “He was one of only three prisoners waterboarded by the United States.”

    I don’t understand the liberals. The whole waterboarding tumul last year was only over 3 people? Why are the libs wasting our time with that?
    And, yes, I too echo the sentiments of #4. Thank you Mr. Rodriguez for saving American Lives.

  5. Shticky Guy:

    You must have missed the bit above that says: “information extracted from Mohammed helped foil a range of terror schemes, including 9/11-style attacks on the West Coast in 2003.”

  6. To Akuperma, no it is not illegal to be a soldier. But it certainly is illegal to attack inocent civilians! Come on man, use common sense!

  7. Let’s not forget that Fearless Leader Barack Hussein Obama mmmm mmmm mmmm and his trusty socialist sidekick AG Holder are against this type of torture. In simple English this means we would have had another attack on our country which no doubt Obama would have blamed someone else for.

  8. Akuperma, he’s not being tried with uncorroborated evidence elicited by torture. But what he said under torture was used to foil attacks, and lead to verifiable evidence. That justifies the torture.

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