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jackk > R Miller > something rotten in Denmark
Please note that Rav was versed in Shakespeare. And I agree with all of the above that by taking R Miller in overall, one should not conclude that he was looking up to Russkies (probably Brezhnev or Khruschev at the time, not Putin).
The argument on juries is interesting. Rav highlights the negatives but there are, of course, positives that juries created in English history, creating some minimal standard when a king was not guaranteed to be always benevolent. Many of Henry’s wives would have preferred a jury of her peers to a mad husband’s will. The ultimate answer to goyishe system of law is not the document but the practice – are they achieving justice relative to alternatives.
> Every day innocent people are convicted
Are you, by chance, Common’s neighbour in Sdom?
this is what I was saying – there are lots of people who would be supporting people who supported OJ in his fight for justice. And, of course, if you stand by this position, there are lots of halachic ramifications about how to behave in such non-just country. I would be interested to hear how Rabonim in your country pasken regarding honesty, respect to laws, paying taxes, et al? Even in Sdom, you may have some limits on behaving like them. I recall Chofetz Chaim tearing up a stamp when he would send a letter with a traveler. Anyone knows whether this was in unfair Russia (presumably) or later in free Poland?
pekak, I just quoted Newtziv because I knew the story to illustrate his personal view of vacations. I don’t know how other roshei yeshivos spend their free time, never met one at a beach … I do understand that many people need time to recharge, and there are psakim to that, just trying to keep in mind what the ideal is.
As to high-intensity jobs, I think, many of such people, including myself, should consider reducing their hours and spending them learning themselves and with their family. It is very alluring to use your expertise on the job when you are a baki ( as Resh Lakish responded to R Yohanan’s comment about sword making – “I was called Rabbi there and I am called Rabbi here”), but Torah and education (and they personally) will probably benefit if people with proven thinking and organizational abilities contribute more. As R Twersky writes “none of the older patients ever said – I did not spend enough time in the office” and in another place – a kid suggest paying his father psychiatrist his hourly rate to spend time with the kid.
Mod, you touched on my biggest concern – that the current state of affairs confuses our values:
Various groups defend their derech by insisting that Torah and their derech is one and the same. This is not necessarily said by the leaders, but it becomes part of the group mentality. And then questioning the derech becomes associated with questioning the Torah. Something that Adam & Have got confused with the tree … In this case – surely, you can read in my post above that I am quoting Netziv’s personal view that it is impossible to go on vacation from learning. And surely I am quoting learning of others in many places. And maybe it is harder to see, but I can assure you that my concern about people approaching Torah with incorrect (in my view) values is out of concern for the Torah and Torah learning. In this case, I replied to you as you statement sounded like making fun of people engaged in mitzvos, as doctors surely are for working too hard. What is next – making fun of Satmar from spending time in the hospitals? (and I confirmed w/ a Lakewood rov that doctors who have right attitudes are indeed engaged in chesed, no less than those who are doing chesed without having a medical job).
common, YWN has no indication where someone lives. I did not know you were posting from Malchus of Sdom. I live in a country where there is some trust in the court system despite occasional glitches.
Mod > Lovely. Tell them they are in the wrong profession
Lovely. These are the same doctors who you call any time of the day when you need them, you can tell them directly.
Where is Torah asks for, or allows, vacations other than shabbos & yomim tovim?!
Doctors told Netziv to go on vacation to the lakes. He ran away from there back to yeshiva.
your lack of awareness of the value of learning is well known here. I would not have bothered responding had you said it.
we should have some humility. I know several Jews who were convicted of some crimes who would have not been convicted were the jury coming from “their peers”.
jackk, there is an idea floating around for NY and similar blue states to vote for some Kennedy guy. If he wins just one big state, he can throw elections to the House and have some negotiations happening. Or even if he get to 40% in polling data, he can demand concessions from either candidate. Now, his demands maybe even crazier than the other two guys, but at least here is an alternative direction.
How is it different from shabbos elevators and all corresponding halachos?
Gadol > The real insanity is how the Feds have slow-walked
you would not assume that they timed it on purpose?
Similarly, administration is timing new “student loan forgiveness” to be announced as close to election as possible, either hoping to start disbursing them right away, or at least make sure that regulations will not be overturned before the vote. I don’t like comparing one allegation to another, but this transparent vote buying using our money deserves their own court case for corruption. As one condemned thief told Melech Alexander – “if I were to steal more, I’ll be sitting with you rather than awaiting the guillotine!”
I guess for those who claim that learning is a substitute for fighting, it is a hard question … maybe either students can learn on their own, or go do food deliveries to the army during the break.
it is statistically improbable that one person will be prosecuted for multiple offenses in different years and decades – all in the 6 months before the election.
re: shtreimels – other than Xians forcing Jews to wear distinct clothes, what were previous (or non-Xian) cases where Jews would wear distinct clothes? Maybe more tzanua, but other than that? any specific cases? Sephardim? Amoraim?
RebE, you need to switch the channel on your internet. There are former djt advisors who support him. More importantly, he consciously had independent thinkers as his advisors who were not shy with their opinions. He, sometimes, listened to them. Current administration consists of yes men who have n practical experience and no independent standing.
RebE, by your logic, he will support you also if you vote for him.
I think this is a case of vadai v sfek sfeika. We know what is Biden’s foreign policy, and we also have a lot of concerns about what Trump could do, with similar concerns not materializing in his first term.
yankel> yazidi’s did not fare too well in the last few years
yes, at the time, I showed some friends from Aleppo pictures of whole Yazidi population escaping up the mountain and then to Syria, with view of fully functional villages, occasional animals, but no people, and then abandoned cars on the slope up the mountain (they would run out of gas and then continue walking) – “this could have been you” … and, similarly, Russian bombardment of Aleppo to force opposition to leave.
Dr Pepper > not keep too much cash on hand
Dr Pepper & Pres Trump should review the daf… BM 42 suggests keeping 1/3 in real estate, 1/3 in stock, and 1/3 in cash. With DJT stock, DJT improved from his bias in RE, but it is hard to have cash as there is always someone who wants to take it away … It is also suggested not to flaunt it and even not to count it yourself to have a brocha … Stock market unexpected jumops can be seen as this sort of brocha, when it is a hidden miracle.
yankel > . Who said yehudim would have fared any better
but, of course, this is hindsight. At that moment, it was not clear what will follow. Similar to WW2 that many expected to go similar to WW1 …
So, we should not be looking down at the arguments that were made historically, but we should revisit them when new information becomes available instead of continuing repeating arguments that sounded good at the time…
When R Steinsaltz was asked about the reasonas behind Shoah (in the context of his lecture about Churban and other historical events in Gemorah), he responded that 50 years is too early to make a judgment, gemora took more time to make conclusions about the Churban.
We need some definition of pesayim. It seems t be used as “I am such a baki in gemora that I do not have time to learn about health”. Do I misunderstand?
I would define it as a non-intellectual and disorganized person for whom it is a tzaar to read, and to follow, health recommendations. Anyone who has a sharp mind and a learning seder should be able to do the healthy stuff too. If he does not, he is not a talmid of Rambam or Shmuel …
We talked before of R Kamenetsky who tried to rely on shomer pesayim on smoking (in 1950s?), but immediately changed his mind when toild that it might affect his memory and, thus, learning. FWIW, current Alzheimer research says that there are no effective late interventions so far, but healthy behaviors (exercise, food) in 40s and earlier, as well as challenging your mind, have effect.
PS this is written in the healthy spirit of “do as I say, not as I do”
Little Froggie, it will give a line segment across the eclipse path. If you also say what percentage of the sun was eclipsed, it will limit us to either 2 points on 2 sides of the path, or to a segment within the totality area.
RebE > chapters in the Torah
As someone quipped: if they would know in Bnei Brak who came up with chapters, they would not use them.
I understand that both of them heard the other side (that was not CR!), but BH would present the other position first, showing that they respect them and also avoiding the bias. We can see here how often people bring arguments solely supporting their own side, leaving it to the opponent to present theirs. This is a sign of how assimilated we are: such approach is common in American/Western “free speech” debate, but not the best in Jewish tradition. This is also alluded in the gemora that compares talmidei chachamim of Bavel with roosters and others – meaning people who learned how to argue but not how to strive for emes.
Avira > Zionists caused the Arab threat
Others objected that this is relevant, but I am questioning this logic. I asked several times before, and I don’t think I got an answer. We now know the pattern of Arab behavior over decades – Saddam, war between Iraq/Iran, Syrian dictators murdering their own citizens, ISIS, Yemen, etc. This is how they treat other groups. Are you saying that heilike Yerushalmis and Aleppis would survive all of that by paying bakshish to Assads and keeping dhimmi status with ISIS? Did Zionim cause all of these tzoros on the whole Middle East?
Avira > Zionists caused the Arab threat
Others objected that this is relevant, but I am questioning this logic. I asked several times before, and I don’t think I got an answer. We now know the pattern of Arab behavior over decades – Saddam, war between Iraq/Iran, Syrian dictators murdering their own citizens, ISIS, Yemen, etc. This is how they treat other groups. Are you saying that heilike Yerushalmis and Aleppis would survive all of that by paying bakshish to Assads and keeping dhimmi status with ISIS? Did Zionim cause all of these tzoros on the whole Middle East?
Jackk. To make sure you are not wasting ours (and your own) time, please put your money where your mouth is. Tell us how many options against DJT you bought and then continue reporting. I’ll be happy to know that either DJT or you are earning some cash.
Avira, there are many cases in gemora when amoraim recommended or not certain foods, that were not necessarily obvious. I am not bringing examples because I presume you would agree. That means that it is not a mayla to rely on ignorance when one can learn better.
Smoking probably was not a noticeable problem before public health and antibiotics. Before that, people were dying from bacteria and, in cities, from spoiled milk. Smoking was considered healthy from 1500s to 1850s and tobacco has actual effects in attention enhancement (nicotine itself) and some anti microbial and anti fungal substances.
I am thinking that eclipse is there to arose our curiosity (as cheruvim symbolize) and interest in creation.
First, the existence of eclipse is not remarkable. Any planet having satellites would have those satellites crossing paths with the sun, unless those moons were close to 90 degree orbit. But having just one moon (the only planet in solar system) and moon and sun visibly similar size is really remarkable making solar eclipse so spectacular. Looking at a little moon crossing the sun from Jupiter is not really a big deal.
So, when people observe sun and moon separate, you only see a 2-D picture, you don’t think about the distance much. But when you figure out that moon crosses in front of the sun, then you start thinking about 3-D. In fact, several Greeks (Aristarchus and Hipparchus, for example) used solar and lunar eclipses in their attempted computations of distances to moon and sun. They got formulas right, but not always exact distances. It is sadly-remarkable that their work seem to be rejected by later “mainstream” Greek academics, instead of correcting their measurement errors. Solar eclipse was also used 100 years ago to confirm Einstein’s relativity theory.
keith > Eating steak is not bad for you.
this might be true, but loshon gemora is usually closer to square root. Chochomim recommend and not recommend certain foods for certain aspects and usually do not say – eat the bad ones just a little.
Avira> are you familiar with שומר פתאים ה”?
you seem to used this several times. I am not sure that a community that styles itself as all-Torah-learning can use this excuse. You seem to be saying that one can be a Talmid Chochom but ignorant in other matters and that’ ok. I don’t think this is what Shmuel thought.
Kahneman/Tversky call this crystallization. When give two contradictory pieces of information, most decision makers bias themselves towards the first one they heard. This is confirmed even for professionals. I did at some point very limited experiment like this with several groups of people, and the group of those who learn Gemora showed lower bias (two other groups were grad students and professors in Engineering). Hopefully, if you learn well, this is one of the things you should be able to master – assess information logically rather than based on precedence, authority, personal taste. This could be a part of the test whether one is a talmid chochom …
Dr Pepper, President now advises Ukraine to stop destroying Russian oil infrastructure that might increase gas prices and further decline Biden’s reelection chances
> The Shevet Sofet says
My wife says the same thing.
akuperma > While he made many mistakes, at least he put much thoughtfulness and intelligence into them.
Right, Obama and his crew were willing to spend month figuring out how to make Obamacare work or debugging the crushing website. Generally, trying to change society at the core. Biden people simply apply old assumptions to new problems; nimble at the corners trying to see who to give money to like Ahashverosh. At this point, nobody is expecting more from the administration. Obamacare crash was in the news; Biden’s “simplified” FAFSA site apparently not working for 6 months – no news. Mainstream media writes that Administration is trying yet another way to forgive student loans despite previous one declared illegal by the Supreme Court, openly mentioning that despite a long procedure required by law, they are hopeful to finish this before the election. Some pollsters trying to predict election mention that Biden events, such as State of the Union – are not affecting the polls in either way because nobody is listening to him. Sad.
I don’t think it is in Iraq. Check 32°11′26″N 48°15′28″E.
Shushan was taken over by Persians not long before Megilat Esther. Alexander had a mass wedding of his army at Shushan – including his own to the daughter of Darius he fought against – to Persian ladies, following on good old Ahashverosh traditions of debauchery
> at the time of Rebbi Shimon. Bar Yohai no rainbow was seen.
how do we understand that? At the time of R Shimon, he had to hide in the caves from prosecution … So, if we live under Nazis and Commies but no rainbows and earthquakes – this is the reward?
> a woman walking down Eastern Parkway the same way she goes for a swim
I don’t know what is on your mind, but it is possible to swim in a burka. Just ask your wives.
RebE, exactly. R Yohanan went mad without having someone to argue with after Resh Lakish petirah. This room is definitely precenting that for many of us!
In BM 35, Abaye and Rava have an argument whether a shomer has to pay if he let the animal out and the animal died of natural causes afterwards. They first disagree sharply. Then, they adjust, saying that they will accept the other position under certain circumstances.
This is what might be happening here. People don’t change their core positions but modulate them. Someone came saying that all yeshiva bochrim should go to the army. Then, he concludes that someone could learn. Someone is saying that one should not get involved with the medina. Then, he adds, one should at least daven for Yidden who live there.
huju,
every shtar can be evaluated on the market even if it is not liquid. DJT can get a loan using DJT shares as a collateral, for example. Or sell them now with the transaction date when he can do it. It is a davar that is already b’olam, I think, so it will be kosher.DaMoshe> doesn’t really accomplish anything
The real question is how could Rav go against gedolim who say college is avodah zorah and how did he find a shidduch and a job after that!?
I also heard someone asking a question – how did Mir yeshiva disregarded daas Torah of r Ozer Grozdinski?
(R Ozer did not think Mir should take a risky trip through USSR).coffee > eclipse will happen on Monday, Rosh Chodesh is on Tuesday
molad is not an astronomical observation, but simply adding a fixed average lunar month time that may be hours off a “real” rosh chodesh.
On that note, is it necessary to announce a rosh chodesh (or to go to listen to it), as everyone is going to see it and reminded multiple times before that by the media?
On a related topic, all girls learn that “bays yaakov” refers to when Hashem addresses women … at the same time, Gemora in BM ~ 33 thinks BY refers to amei haaretz …
> This was a direct attempt at shmad.
In some cases, it might have been. In specific cases, I read and talked with people about, all communities, non-religious and religious, were also interested in money paid for hosting the orphans. Not everything is about ruchniyos, especially in difficult times.
yankel, you are at the great madregah of Chaim Brisker’s family member (*) who called a doctor for a sick kid on shabbos. Chaim Brisker suggested adding logs to the fire so that the doctor could see better. The family member started evaluating in his mind whether it is necessary to do that or the doctor can do without. R Chaim got annoyed and went to add logs himself. With your shitah, there would be nobody to lead YU later on …
(*) the way I recall the story was written, it is clear who the person is, but the story does not name him.
Biden says that “it is a land of possibilities”, Trump makes opportunity a possibility.
huju, just because you said so twice, does not mean it is true. Owners, mostly Trump’s people so far, can vote an exception.
I am thankful to this site that enables, and enforces, anonymous and civil discussions on controversial . There is a good reason, not just desire to troll, that many discussions are so harsh. It is rarely possible to have discussions between different shitos in person. First, people tend nowadays to live among those with the same opinions and hat fashion. Second, many would be reluctant to ask hard questions of people they know personally. Who wants to have a shidduch ruined just because you are curious about Zionism …
So, the fact that many/most posters do not seem to change their minds is not just a sign of our stubbornness, but also that many come here with well developed opinions that are not easily destroyed by a contact with opposite opinions. Still, I think people at least modulate their opinions in view of what others are saying.
This is also a great place to practice “what to answer an apikoiros” in case you would encounter one IRL, HvS.
I also hope that people who hold by the opinion that most hoi polloi should not go to college or get exposed to different opinions, but think that they are the ones who cna handle it, ask their posek first.
>> I’ve changed people’s mind”
grammar police: mind is singular; therefore, people is singular. That is, the poster claims that he -singularly, sic! – changed the mind of a nation. Kol hakavod and refuah shleima.
For those confused on the grammar point, see Rashi on tzefardeah makah in Sefer Shmos.
When we discuss a thesis: how many haredim qualify as full-time Talmidei Chachamim to be exempt, can we agree on the following answer:
between 5% and 95% of them?Not 0, as there are T’Ch we will all agree on, and not 100, as there are people who are not learning, not capable of learning, working on a side, do not have right middos, etc.
Anyone disagrees?
> a ‘religious’ Jew [remember him?] traveling on shabbat to make peace between Russia and Ukraine
Naive maybe, but were he to succeed, hundreds of thousands of people would be alive including thousands of Jews, and with immeasurable impact on world politics, including Israel. Might have been enough justification.