Forum Replies Created
The question in the
OP is about preventing women from ending up under the chuppah with future Get Refusers.
@get-r-dun absolutely. I know a lot of bochurim and divorced men pay people to be their shidduch references.
Ujm, please stick to the pshat of the original question
Divorced men need their dayanim as references
The fact that bochurim in their 20’s are subject to more reference-checking than divorced men seeking to remarry
is a very serious problem.
For cases with divorced men seeking to remarry, having the woman’s side call the Dayanim who presided over his nesinas haget as a reference can help the inquiring party determine whether or not he is too dangerous for marriage
Personally, I don’t.
If you really want to know how they treat their in-laws from an objective perspective, perhaps you should spend 72 hours surveilling the family with a Camera Drone instead of randomly calling the other family before deciding on a first date.
Do you realize how grossly invasive to make those kinds of phone calls before deciding on a first date???
Nebuch. How thin-skinned and snowflaky.
Learning how to cope with what you described is minuscule compared life’s other harsh realities. Shouldn’t stand in way of building a Bayis neoomon bYisroel with the person (!!) unless if he or she poses a life-threatening danger to you!
I am not 30. I am 27. I don’t check references. I say yes to every girl suggested to me with rapid speed.
Shadchanim tell me that girls’ mothers say no to me because my references don’t respond in an immediate fashion.
References = marriage?
I don’t check references at all. Neither do my parents.
We both refuse. And it angers shadchanim
Yes I would.
But this behavior is more rampant among the parents, not the singles.
The Shidduch reference checking system teaches singles to perceive marriage as disposable.
A few weeks ago, there was a letter to the Yated Shidduch Column by a single’s mother who admitted to tossing away all of her adult childrens’ shidduch suggestions simply because the references were not instantly answering their phone calls or providing enough information.
Seriously? Is that how marriage works??
Imagine the following scenario:
You are an aguna who has been waiting a long time for your get. Finally, the day arrives for your nesinas haget, but your sister is bombarding each of the dayanim on their phones,
hoping these rabbanim will give answers to her questions about their single talmidim whom are being suggested to your sister’s single daughter.
Is this not disgusting?
I believe the excessive pre-1st date references checking is Avoda Zara, and should be avoided altogether.
I am sick and tired of being asked questions about my Zoom Chevrusa’s family members who live overseas in
The other day, my friend told me that his sister-in-law’s was in the middle of giving birth when her iPhone was ringing off the hook with missed phone calls from feisty boys’ mothers seeking Shidduch Reference information about her former seminary roommates.
According to my roommate, when his SIL found time to answer their phone calls, either the boys’ mothers tossed the shidduch suggestions without bothering to a first date, while the others bombarded her with personal questions about her friends which are solely meant to be asked by the singles on the date.
Which also did not lead to any first dates.
Do these boys’ mothers realize that they are teaching their children to perceive the institution of marriage as if it is as disposable as a paper plate by refusing first dates on their sons’ behalf (often without their reshus) based off of silly reference checking?
Reference phone calls and chemistry do not go hand-in-hand.
@Dr. Pepper you are comparing apples and oranges.
By that logic, you might as well hire your mother to talk to your wife for you instead of communicating on your own.
Because you are implying that dating and marriage can be equated with simplistic handiwork. Pathetic.
If reference-checking is too much for you, why not simpy go on a date and then deal with the references later after the 3rd date?
Do you realize how much time is wasted by checking references without even bothering to a first date?
That doesn’t answer my question about the singles’ extreme laziness
What does paying for the chasuna have to do with the making one’s first date decisions?
Today, an overwhelming majority of parents will not pay for their kids’ chasunos unless they leave them out of the picture until after the third date. It’s much easier for the parents. Less work especially when the shidduch inquiry doesn’t lead to a first date.
Why are singles so lazy?
Al pi Halacha, a child is not obligated to listen to their parents when they tell them to marry or not to marry someone.
During the reference calls, 100% of the questions being asked by parents have nothing to do with marriage. So having experience being married means nothing, and the the reference calls should only be carried out by the singles.
A few years ago at the Agudah Convention, Rabbi Paysach Krohn said that the shidduch crisis will be solved quickly with a “Hands-Off approach” towards the parents of singles.
And adding parents as a third-party go between is not more efficient than singles simply having shadchanim sit between them.
So why do people pretend that letting singles fend for themselves while being mediated by shadchanim has the potential to be more disastrous than Shabsai Zvi?
This is why the shidduch system should stop frowning upon Working BochurimAugust 17, 2021 11:54 am at 11:54 am in reply to: Is the frum “business/economic model” sustainable? #2000672
If being frum is so expensive, why does the Shidduch system treat Working Bochurim like Footsteps members?August 16, 2021 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm in reply to: Is the frum “business/economic model” sustainable? #2000502
Why does the shidduch system treat Working Bochurim like OTD Footsteps members?
Why do so many girls turn down bochurim for dates if they are not learning full-time?
Many of these singles’ references have their own busy lives.
During the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, many people who serve as references on resumes were overwhelmed with taking care of their own families as well as preparing for Yimei Tovim amid the horrific chaos. Many such people who serve as references became yesomim, while others who served as shidduch references were niftarim themselves. (Erroneously not removed from the resume.)
In all three situations, the references fell off of the radar of the singles.
In that case, then the girls and their mothers are wasting the references’ time by interrogating them.
Shmiras HaShabbos reduces more emissions than Al Gore’s private jet.
If you search for “Al Gore Private Jet” on Google Images, you will see a picture of him flying over the empty streets of Lakewood on Leil Shabbos..
Bernie Sanders, Randi Weingarten, George Soros, and other Left-wing Jewish Climate alarmists aren’t shomrei Shabbos..
Read the OP again
Many of these working bochurim DID learn full time after mesivta for 2-3 years. They continue to learn every day, just curtailing one or two sdarim in order to get a head start when the big bills come along after marriage. How else will these boys be able to afford tuition and Shmura Matza for their future families??
Did you know that anyone who earns less than $500,000/year is considered below the Frum Poverty Line??
Despite their uncompromised love for Limud Torah and early commitments to parnossa, the shidduch system still frowns upon these bochurim as if they were members of Footsteps.
The fact that I am hurting your subjective feelings and making you FEEL disgusted doesn’t answer my question in the OP.
No, this question is not disgusting.
Rather, I’m being brutally honest.
For too long, the level of frumkeit in the MO community has been purely watered down to accommodate their personal tayvos. Rather than living a life proper balance between intensive level beis medrish learning and intensive academia, the LWMO violate halacha whenever it is simply inconvenient to follow.
In co-ed high schools, the girls who keep shomer negia are harassed by teenaged boys,
and anyone who is more machmir than Jared & Ivanka with shmiras hamitzvos is written off as “Fanatically Kharedi.”
When young members of MO communities started frumming out after learning in OJ, Reishit, Gush, Shraga, and Mevaseret, their parents were extremely angry at their gadlus, so they started Open Orthodoxy to combat the influences of the Yeshivish velt & Rav Kook followers whose השפעה were causing LWMO to become more hostile to the silly tayvos of LWMO.
After coming home from learning in Yeshivat Ohr Yerushalayim, my friend went directly to Lakewood to meet with a local shadchan.
After explaining that his family is very Modern but he flipped out in OJ after graduating his co-ed high MO school, the shadchanit told him that he and his family were too goyish for the girls she knew.
After a few more squabbles, my friend ended up marrying that shadchanit’s daughter.
To this very day, she still thinks her son-in-law is a goy!!
Many of the older mispalelim at Breuer’s in Washington Heights wear straw hats from Tammuz until Elul, but I’m not sure why the bochurim there don’t.
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