ashergg

Rocky touched on this, but not enough. This post mentions all the problems without pinning anything to it’s roots. I’m getting complainer vibes. It’s one of those “the entire system is failing us”. Be precise, think of where the problem comes from, offer solutions. Complaining isn’t cool, or hard. Infants through elders, everyone complains. Talk about the cause, pin it to a person, an idea, something tangible. There isn’t any human operated system without flaws, And i understand that there’s a breaking point, but complaining is just recycling yesterday’s method, which is evidently not effective, at all. I think the first step is to uncloud your head of all these complaints, stop embracing a victimhood mindset, and last but not least, start with the man in the mirror.

I agree with nevuah. And chaim87, you keep mentioning the kids, the kids will have a hard time, who’s responsible. Parents are role models for the kids in most cases, especially when they witness righteousness and courageousness. A decent example is when the parents create a toradike environment in the home, the kids don’t get fazed to a point of jealousy at extravagant events (not young children. young children also cry for lollypops) , they appreciate it, but that’s it. Everyone sets the tone in their home, they decide what’s respected and what’s not respected. Your kids will follow your virtue.

@nevuah “believe God will actually come through because he always does”. coming through i understand means by your terms, what makes you happy with your “narrow” peception of things. faith is believing that hashem is in control, and he’s inherently good, so your difficulty is completely in your perception. And yes, one can’t grasp something without experiencing it in some way, even vision arguably, thinking is speculation.
You believe, and also discern, that’s not an issue. Most people do that actually. You didn’t invent thinking. Making something align with our true selves must start from outside, from the facts, and we look into ourselves to fix ourselves. That is exactly what avodas hamiddos is. It does not mean tweaking the truth to feel good.

@nevuah ” the Torah was not written directly to us. But was written about our ancestors so we can gain knowledge and wisdom to guide us through reality.” It indeed was written directly to us. Your talking about a specific portion, and huge portions talk direct with very specific orders. You keep making yourself oblivious to half the torah to avoid your argument falling apart.
“God hides himself from the world to give us that free agency so we don’t feel confined to a doctrine or dogmatic control thinking.” Totally your assumption. Hashem hides to we have free will. If he’s in the open, free will don’t exist. Facts don’t care about your feelings.
“giving up their entire soul in order to fallow a “doctrine” and calling that virtue is litterally selling your soul to something you don’t fully understand.” The idea of living by fully understanding is a direct contradiction to the most foundational mitzva, emunah. It means to believe in hashem and that he’s one. It’s impossible to “fully understand” or grasp hashem, let alone anything spiritual, but we BELIEVE. Apparently you don’t believe in believing, or don’t “fully undertand” it. But don’t make that the torah. We should make sense if things to the best of our ability, but TRUTH is not defined by what we understand, Truth is truth. We live by the truth, and try understanding to the best of our ability.
I could sit here all day and go through each argument or you just pay attention.
ps. you keep speaking about being “happy” e.g. “if that’s what makes you happy” etc etc like happiness defines truth. and again, facts don’t care about your feelings.

@qwerty613 i enjoy it.

@qwert613 I hear what you’re saying but your method is not effective, evidently.

@nevuah I take it that you agree to what i wrote above.

The farther your kids are from social media, the less of these problems you’ll have. I’m not implying that your kids have access, rather they’re in an environment that sm trends get access to. This is a cultural issue that can only be dealt with on a systematical level. I gave you the only local solution i could think of.

I think the core meaning of the word is something along the lines of deprived/left alone.

@nevuah. It’s hard to believe that something akin to broken telephone has kept the fundamentals of a nation for over 3,000 years and hasn’t budged, which is unheard of. The famous mushel is the sifrei torah found with the yeminite jews who were separated from the tribe for 2,000 years. I think christianity is the right mushel for broken telephone.

@nevauh. You made a few assumptions in my words so they fit in to your argument. I doesn’t look like you paid attention to my point so I’ll try again, this time even clearer. We believe hashem gave us the torah at har sinai. Hashem giving us the torah means the torah is the TRUTH. Life is what we have to live the truth. We must look in to the torah to identify the truth, and, how to navigate out path toward the truth. Being that the torah is so great in size and depth, we follow those who studied big amounts and understand. Hashem gave humans the tools to learn the torah, understand it, it make decisions that put it into practice. I think I made it clear.
On another note, you say that “What was the Torah written for tho? To help us navigate life.” It sounds like you think that life has meaning in it of itself and the torah is just a guide how to navigate “life”, whatever that is. What’s the purpose of life according to you?

@nevuah ok, let me break it down. We believe in the torah, we believe in it’s divinity which is why it’s the epicenter of our life. The torah is gigantic, both in size and in depth. One must be either be crazy or egoistic to assume that he knows the torah, especially at a relatively young age. The above leads us to listen those who are smart and studied big amounts of torah. We have the right to assume that they will lead us in a truer torah way then we could lead ourselves. This doesn’t in any way infringe on every individuals personal obligation to decipher, but as far as it concerns torah matters, we leave it up to those who “know better”. The mere idea of faith is “believing” there’s a truth and working toward it.

lol. What intrigues me is not that everyone here is on a different page, rather that you guys went in 7 circles. @rescue it’s true conformity takes away ones individualism. Hence, i do think that conforming to those who have what we call “daas torah” doesn’t contradict that because we believe we have a purpose and we follow those who have a better understanding in our purpose then we do. I do agree that one who’s entirety of their avodas hashem is purely by conforming is not exercising their bechirah to do avodas hashem. Balance is critical which is why hashem gave us common sense.

@chaim87 The fact that some people live in their bubble of “torah igdula” doesn’t change the fact that the yeshiva system teaches the truth about torah. They don’t sing yomim at weddings when the “torah igdulah” guy walks in.

I didn’t read through all the arguments in this article but I think the way Mesorah works is that minhagim are passed down from father to son unless a “Gadol” or community whom one associates himself with has a different minhag. All mesoras are rooted in halacha, and one must be keeping a mesorah. There’s no clear line in what one can adapt, rather it’s gray area that requires daas torah.

Luxurious standards in the community is not a “problem”, it’s a “plague”. Weddings are one drop in the ocean. I don’t see a solution though.