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Cherrybim, many non-Hispanics speak Spanish. Does that make Spanish a non-Hispanic language?
Ubi,
1. Yiddish is a relic of a galut for which there should be zero nostalgia.
2. All this nonsense about Yiddish being holy is racist – and I am half-Sephardic.Cherry, what about Ladino (spoken by Judíos)?
Izzyg, how did the younger members feel about that?
Ubi, in fact, I have considered petitioning the German Research Foundation to include Yiddish along with Rabaul Creole German (Unserdeutsch) as a German creole. Perhaps a few of the posters here can apply for grants.
Yosef, would they also tell Sephardim that there is a preference for Yiddish?
1. Something is holy if it has at least one hole. In Jerusalem, for example, there is a chain of food stores called “The Holy Bagel”. It becomes holy when one puts a hole in it.
2. If someone’s name is Ehrlich and he does aveirot should he change his name.
3. What is “linguistically inept”? Jews in Antwerp typically speak six languages (Hebrew, Yiddish, English, French, Flemish and German). Is someone who only speaks five linguistically inept?
Knaidlach, I have also listened to Simon & Garfunkel (do they count?), John Denver, Elton John (toeva) , etc. I have even listened to Motown songs. Does this mean that my soul is attuned to the whole world? What about Rav Ovadia, who loved listening to Umm Kulthum, even when he learned?
What about Chassidic music that comes from non-Jewish sources?
AY, it is well known and documented that Rav Kook already preferred to speak in Hebrew in Volozhin. I obviously do not know how well your parents spoke Hebrew but Rav Shlomo Aviner was commented thath is grandfather was once by a rav who only spoke “Hebrew” on Shabbat. The rav would say things like “roitzeh shoitteh?” in a valiant but futile attempt. Even major talmidei chachamim made glaring mistakes in speaking (I once attended a lecture on this). Even in writing there are many grammatical errors in sefarim (e.g. נשים חשובים).
As for having heard mussar talks (BTW “shmuess” comes from שמועות – news, not such a holy source), what about those who heard the Ben Ish Hai’s talks in Baghdad Jewish Arabic? It is said that small children were so awed that they sat quietly for hours. Does this make Baghdad Jewish Arabic holy?
Regarding modern Hebrew, just as a person can undergo giur so can a word. The Shela haKadosh says (Sanhedrin 4b regarding “tot” and “fot”) that some words were lost from Lashon haKodesh but retained by other peoples. Perhaps by bringing them back we are bringing back the sparks of kedusha in those languages.
Knaidlach, does that mean that a Litvak should not listen to Chassidic music. If I do not approve of draft dodgers should I refrain from listening to their music? What about someone who claims that Reform Jews are not Jewish?
It,
1.Rav Lichtenstein did not come to America until age eight so English was his third language after Yiddish and French.
2. Rav Yaakov changed the language of instruction to English in the Fifties because he felt it was too hard for kids to learn in a language they did not speak. Ditto Rav Soloveichik.Joseph, Rambam, Ramban, Rashaba and Ritzva did not speak creole German. Neth di the Radbaz, the Arizal. the Chida, Rav Chaim Palaggi, the Ben Ish Hai, etc. Rav Ovadia even made fun of the Ashkenazi pronunciation of Hebrew.
It, When Rav Charlop first met Rav Kook he addressed him in creole German. Rav Kook said “Being that you are new here I will not hold it against you. However, you should know that one does not address me in Jargon”.
I reiterate, “Yid” is a pejorative in English. Archie Bunker, in fact, used it.
ZD,
1. Regarding the Septuagint, the point is that it did not make Greek holy (and BTW, the lingua franca of the roman Middle East was not classical Greek but Koine Greek).
2. The takkana to use Yiddish was a response to the Neolog (Reform) who were, as they said, more Hungarian than the Hungarians. BTW, the bachurim in Pressburg earned an external academic diploma in return for a draft exemption as theological students. This stood the Orthodox in good stead when Franz Josef was forced to sign a compromise with the Hungarians that included him speaking in Hungarian, which is an extremely difficult language, while in Hungary. The head of the Neologs spoke to him in literary Hungarian, which annoyed him very much. When the Chief Rabbi, Rav Koppel Weiss, first met him the Emperor started to rattle off his prepared speech when the rabbi interrupted him and told him in perfect German that he did not understand Hungarian. FJ patted him on the shoulder and said “We are two old gentlemen. We will never learn this language”.Ubi, the first generation to grow up in America also did not use Yiddish in their daily lives except for a word here and there. In any case, Yiddish was certainly not spoken by Sephardim (who mainly spoke Ladino) or the Eidot haMizrach (Judeo-Arabic). Yiddish is simply a dialect of German. in fact, I have a friend whose wife is from Switzerland. She told me that Yiddish is close enough to Swiss-German that she can understand it if the person speaks slowly.
Knaidlach, not true. James Cagney spoke fluent Yiddish and used it in two of his movies. Colin Powell is also fluent in it. Someone told me that when her mother was sitting in a park the Arab cleaner complained about the mess in the Yiddish he learned as a child in the Old City.
Make, Xtianity is half Jewish. Is it also holy?
ZD, on the contrary, that day was as dark for Am Yisrael as the day on which the golden calf was made.
Yosef,
1. It depends on the person. If he needs the language for parnassa he might get a heter.
4. My experience is that kids (and adults) do mix languages but also know how to speak in one language.Some kids even speak each language with the proper accent. What is a problem is when the parents speak to the kid in different languages from the get-go as absorbing both at the same time is too difficult for a toddler.Bais, actually it is creole German. Agnon wrote a story about a Polish rabbi who went to germany for medical treatment. Every time he spoke in Yiddish the locals corrected him.
Tiawd, why not learn Judeo-Persian or Bukhori.
It’s, Rav Kook disagreed with him.
JD, I do not know how true that is today. Paradoxically, when non-Jewish clubs started to accept Jews and restrictive covenants went out the window Jews became less Jewish culturally. This opened the door to intermarriage as people no longer perceived that there was a difference. I think that his is also true of other white ethnic groups. At one time an italian would only marry an Italian, etc. Now this is not so true. Moreover, many non-Jews have such a positive view of Jews that they seek Jewish spouses. On one secular Jewish dating site 5% of the member are open about not being Jewish.
A Jew who sins remains a Jew (Sanhedrin 44a). Rav Soloveichik, in Five Derashot explains that there are two aspects to Jewishness: the national aspect (haberit ben habeitarim), which is not connected to free choice and the religious aspect (berit Horev), which is. In fact, we see that a secular Jew today will scream if someone contends that he is not Jewish.
As for the O.P.’s question, Rav Kook explains (Al HaKefira that kefira has its source in some lack among observant Jews. In fact, the Chafetz Chaim once commented that if a Jew in Vilna puts down his Gemara to early a Jew in Paris (then a secular bastion) will eat pork. Thus there is areivut.
As for children of non-Jewish mothers, while they are not halachically Jewish some mekubbalim say that there is an inyan to bring them back. The work of Rav Eliahu Avichail and of Michael Freund’s “Shavei Yisrael” is well-known.
Jack,
1. Don’t be disingenuous.
2. So what is?
3. Only half tongue in cheek. If someone is relocating anyway why chose another galut? What really made me sick was an article in a certain “Hareidi” magazine trumpeting the revived Jewish community in Berlin. @TLTIK, if Rav Meir Simcha could not move German Jew to make aliya what can I do. Secular Jews are disappearing anyway. Orthodox Jews will soon have no place in Western countries except possible, thank to Trump, the US. Why I think that is is a whole other subject.
4. So let the USPS trim the waste and be competitive. Anyway, what is so bad about charging according to distance? Buses do it. Besides, with email snail mail is a museum piece. We have saved the trees.It, that is a complement. Chazal also said it about Avraham Avinu saddling his own donkey.
Jackk,
1. What about FBI agents explicitly working against his election? Is that respect for the Constitution and separation of powers? As for trade wars, he wants a fairer deal for America. What’s wrong with that. I also wouldn’t care so much if he blocked Jews from coming. Let them make aliya.Little, so what if Amazon bankrupts the USPS? I would completely privatize it and let the free market decide. This is, in fact, the true public interest.
As for alternatives, I od not see any of the abovementioned candidates running in 2020. It takes a great deal to unseat a President from leading his own party. So far as I know it has not happened, at least not in the last 100 years. As for the Democrats, that party is drifting increasing into leftist never-never land. They might as well call it the Sanderscratic Party.
Interestingly though 5751 was the year of the Oslo accords.
1. This seems to be Rav Kook’s sheeta.
2. I never heard that. However, according to the Gra if Am Yisrael prays for him he will not die,Neville, Rav Kook seems to say that he is a movement. Perhaps he is the State of Israel. This might not be an abstract concept but an entity. Similarly, both Rav Kook and Rav Soloveichik say that a tzibbor is an entity by itself. Thus, according to RS, we continue to say Chazarat HaShatz even though all have siddurim and need not motzied. RK goes on to say that unlike other nations, which are only collections of individuals, Am Yisrael is a collective entity with the individual its limbs and organs similar to the relationship between an individual person and his limbs and organs.
Neville,
1. So what if Rav Kook’s sheeta does not agree with them?
2. There are actually two mashiachs. This is explicit in the Gemara (Sukka 52a). According to Rabbi Hillel Rivlin’s exposition of the Gra’s sheeta it is clear that Mashiach ben Yosef is here.
3. The thread is about the Geula being here. The Geula unfolds slowly in stages (Yerushalmi Berachot 1:1).Avram, are you saying that the US should take in all comers? How exactly would you monitor them without establishing a totalitarian state?
Avram, it is a crime to try and enter the US illegally. See The Truth about Separating Kids By Rich Lowry in National review.
Midwest, which of the sheva mitzvot did he violate? That is not to say that he will be a choir boy or get an Artscroll bio. However, many politicians did the same things he did and are leftist icons. JFK was just the tip of the iceberg. Then there was Teddy the drunken murderer who dared to lecture the Senate on morality during the Bork confirmation hearings.. What about the moll of the Clinton crime family who declared war on traditional religion?
CK,
1. I disagree.
2. I disagree.
3. It is a major problem and chillul Hashem that the frum world depends on these programs. It will come back to haunt them if the increasingly leftist Dems get back in power c”v just as it is in the UK and Belgium. Unless of course Trump’s judicial nominations get in the way. Just for that frum Jews should vote Rep.RY, maybe he is telling us to remember the day of death.
Anybody for chumrot on ben adam lachaveiro?
Adam, first of all, there are two Mashiachs: Mashiach ben Yosef, whose job is kibbutz galuyot and building the material aspect of EY, and Mashiach ben David, who job is to build the spiritual aspect (Kol HaTor by Rabbi Hillel Rivlin). Rav Kook (HMisped b’Yerushalaym – said at a gathering to commemorate the conclusion of the shiva for Herzl) held that the Zionist movement in general was the ikva d’MBY. The text can be accessed online. There is also has a commentary (in Hebrew) on the Betel Yeshiva site .
Whitte car, you’re right. TY for reminding me.
Crazy,
1. What he does is much more important then what he says.
2. If you made a bad deal you get out and cut your losses.
3. Let the blue states cut their enormous expenses.What Trump has done for Jews:
1. Appointed strong friend of religious freedom to SCOTUS.
2. Apparently going to appoint another one.
3. Appointing others to lower courts.
4. Moving embassy to Jerusalem
5. Cancelling Iran deal
6. Appointing Nikki Haley to UN
7. Getting out of anti-Israel “Human Rights” Council.What has Trump actually done that is in violation of the sheva mitzvot? OK he is not a choir boy. Neither was Salazar but the head of Portugal’s Jewish community supported him because he denounced antisemitism in general and Nazi racial in particular and saved Jews.
Laskern, actually their parents abandoned them. They could have taken them back but did not.They are then kept in excellent conditions with no one being hidden.
Coffee Addict, it makes them feel less bad about themselves.
Bachurs might get too excited during arguments with their chevrutot.
Laskern, why not?
Toi, it is a machloket between Rabbi Natan and Rabbi Meir (Horiot 13b). As we generally do not pasken like Rabbi Meir one-to-one against another Tanna it seems that either R. Elya’s yetzer hara succeeded or the storyteller’s yetzer hara succeeded (the Divrei Chaim said that if a chassid tells you he something with his own eyes maybe he once heard it).
1. Toi, we are dealing with people who either have undergone giur or are children of those who have (the main Beta Israel aliya occurred almost forty years ago although there were aliyot before and after). The Eida does not recognize anyone outside their own little circle as being real observant Jews.
2. I saw three hechsherim on Barkan wine: Rabbanut, Badatz Bet Yosef (established by Rav Ovadia – the Bet Yosef is machmir on the percentage of water allowed and once at a wedding RO said “shehakol” on the wine) and Chug Chatam Sofer (Chareidim, mainly Chassidim and mainly in Petach Tikva and Bnei Brak). As Barkan is sold internationally I presume that the other two are non-Israeli and thus do not appear on Israeli labels.
3. I have already listed the kullot that come from this chumra. Scroll up.
DY,
1. Read the first part on the previous page “הצריכם להצילם יש גירותם קודם גם אבל
נפשות ש״ספק ישראל, . Thus he says that the people who do not want to mekarev them even before giur l’chumra are racists.
2. Please cite where Rav Moshe says that. He may have been referring to a situation where the treif ingredient is listed on the package (FDA regs require that it be listed if it is at least 1%).
3. What about chillul Hashem, causing hatred, safek inui gerim and not loving them? IMHO the Badatz’ action is chassidut shel shtut
4. According to Barkan CEO Col. (Res.) Erez Wiener “The Badatz [Edah Haharedit] is a body that uses the commercial power it has accumulated in order to establish criteria that are not always halakhic and consistent. Many times they are meant to preserve the status of Badatz,” says Wiener, and tells of his story with the members of the Edah Haharedit.
“I turned to them about a year ago and we wanted to examine a commercial possibility, because I do not have a kashrut problem. I have five kosher seals and I feel at peace and confident in drinking my wine and selling it as kosher, but this was a commercial consideration and we turned to them, we were in a sort of negotiation process over the large monetary demands and we had reached an agreement, and then they got into all sorts of demands to move people from their jobs, because this one is not religious enough and that one is doesn’t have enough fear of Heaven and all sorts of criteria that I did not like, and in the end I accompanied them politely to the door and gave up on this kashrut.” [Arutz 7]According to the Jerusalem Post, the chief kashrut supervisor at the Barkan Winery, Yosef Promovitch, told Yediot Aharonot that “there are Ethiopians who know that they are Jews – who have undergone conversion – and there are Ethiopians who are not, who are questionable.”
The Barkan supervisor added that as a blanket rule, workers of Ethiopian origin could not touch wine. “The Badatz is not willing to accept Ethiopians.”Chad, that is a well-known story. Obviously, it was not really necessary. BTW, when two bachurs from Radin were accused of spying for the Germans during WW1 (then the German Army was very good to the Jews and even appointed an Orthodox rabbi as the liaison) the CC testified and their non-Jewish lawyer told some stories about his honesty. One of the judges asked if he believed all of them. He replied “No. But they don’t tell such stories about you or me”.
1. Actually the oomot haolam recognized that EY (including Ever haYarden) is our at the San Remo Conference.
2. So far as the situation in Chul is concerned, it could be that the Trump Court (he is getting to nominate under Justice and with Breyer almost 80 and Ginzberg already 85 he might get to pick two more).
DY,
1. Read it again. Rav Moshe was talking about before giur. He said that they should be mekareved and then undergo giur l’chumra. He said that some people do not want to because they are black.
2, The Ethiopians in question have undergone conversion or are children of converts.Dull & Yitczchok, for a non-Jew the night follows the day. Therefor, if a non-Jew keeps Shabbat but soes melacha on Motzash he is in the clear.
Ran, true but he cannot dance a two weddings. If they are safek mamzerim there is at least a safek if he is Jewish. As I have previously posted, stam yaynam is rabbinic so the we are lenient. One who says differently is disagreeing with Chazal and all Savoraim, Gaonim, Rishonim and Achronim who came before him.
I just read on the Arutz-7 Hebrew site that the CEO of Barkan says that the Badatz representatives with whom he originally negotiated also decided that non-Ethiopian Jews they don’t like are not observant enough. What if someone opens bottles on Shabbat? Will his wine also be disqualified. Maybe the Rabbinut should retaliate and disqualify someone who does not say Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut.
Rav Moshe explicitly accused those who reject the Ethiopians of racism. The Badatz wants to dance at two weddings. They say that they are safek mamazerim and have to convert. If they are safek Jews then we are lenient regarding rabbinic prohibitions. Unless of course they think that they are holier than Chazal (see my post of June 27, 2018 7:15 am).
Neville, I have news for you. According to some opinions much of our wine can be touched by non-Jews as pasteurization counts as cooking.
Apushatayid, the Sephardim are mostly right n that. Both the leftists and the Ashkenazi Chareidim discriminate against tem. Very few Sephardim are accepted into Ashkenazi Chareidi yeshivot and very few have been on the Supreme Court (although Ayelet Shaked is changing things).
Stam yaynam is a rabbinic prohibition and thus we are lenient with a doubt. Anyone who disagrees is a heretic (Pitchei Teshuva YD 116:10)
As for the general question, a chumra can often lead to a kula and thus a chillul Hashem. For example, singing zemirot loudly until very late or having many guests that cause noise in the hallway late at night. Rav Yisrael Salanter railed against such people.
What about Yekke tales? I will start (even though I am only a quasi-Yekke – my father’s father’s parents were from Czernowitz). I was offered NIS180 shekels off my first purchase if I took a certain supermarket chain’s credit card. I took the card and my first purchase came to NIS180.01 which is the same for charging purposes as $180.00. The cashier was amazed. “How did you do that?” .
Chaim Eliezer, maybe the hooligans who fly El Al will earn from this. BTW, once the Chafetz Chaim had to send a letter by messenger. He bought a stamp and ripped it up so as not to cause the Polish post office a loss.
It’s, the Gemara there says that when it comes to murder there is no such thing for Jews either. In contrast, see Chullin 15b מנהג אבותיהן בידיהן. I also heard that there is a difference between mishpatim and chukkim regarding לא יאמר אדם אי איפשי ללבוש שעטנז, אי אפשי לאכול בשר חזיר, אי איפשי לבוא על הערוה, אבל (יאמר) איפשי ומה אעשה ואבי שבשמים גזר עלי כך.(Siifra Kedoshim 10).
Laskern,
1. You are putting words in my mouth. I was extending your sheeta.
2. Borrow? What if you have no realistic expectation to be able to repay? I have already quoted sources that someone who does that is a rasha. Maybe that sin alone will cancel some good decrees.