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@ct lawyer yes I try to keep out the garbage of the world’s as much as possible, so I can see the G-dliness within to the best of my ability. Thanks for explaining that. I guess it seemed from the previous posts that it was of the vanity type etc hence my posts. There is no problem with plastic surgery for health reasons. I don’t understand why someone would be upset not being told that though? Because if it’s a one off exception to the norm, I would think it wouldn’t be posted here… But I’m happy to be wrong :).
@wtp thanks for clarifying a reason. I was shocked I don’t know anyone who got cosmetic plastic surgery, and my husband would have been equally surprised at the question.
So I was thinking maybe these values come from watching movies, but my brother who used to watch would never elect plastic surgery and askance at anyone who would.
So would my friend who does watch although she is very into fitness.
Even my not frum and non Jewish relatives wouldn’t elect such a thing – they have pretty much despaired of finding a spouse and would consider themselves lucky to get married
The only place I could think of who obsesses with looks to such a degree is the ultimate of klipa world of Hollywood and I find it sad that Torah yidden could stoop lower on values than a typical goy.
So thanks for the lchaf zechus – although those girls must feel awfully insecure which should be addressed as well. And what’s the lchaf zechus for a man who would get angry at not knowing?
Every generation is tasked with a unique mission and is given the powers needed to accomplish it. We are working through the world and refining it. Once we are done= Geula.
Yeridas hadoros is because each generation had an easier / lower mission to work on than the generation before so they get progressively weaker as well, as our power matches our mission.
For example, the generations of the Tannaim and AmoraiMy were tasked with refining the intellect of the world’s. They were brilliant, and the nations of the world were as well. That was the time of philosophy.
Contrast that for today and no one cares for Aristotle…
Since we don’t need to refine the wisdom of the world anymore, we are lacking in the wisdom they had… There is alot more to be said but here’s for starters.
“1. We donโt here of such things today? You never heard of the Amityville Horror?”
No I didn’t
“2. There are stories of โtzaddikimโ giving all their money to some needy person and leaving their own families high and dry”
They were expected to give everything they had whether spiritually or physically for the klal. Notice they didn’t keep any money for themselves either yet they all survived and thrived. Hashem provides for us day by day, just as He did with the mon, but it takes real bitachon to live that way.
But it works!(โShedim taking over the apartment is an dead couple is gibberish.)”
Your right it was meant to be OF a dead couple.
Happened in the city of the Alter Rebbe’s great grandfather reb Baruch batlan.
OK you’re right I was thinking this is a good application of the tochacha thread ๐ but Otoh since I don’t know anyone personally, and no one knows me, I thought maybe its gone because it’s expressing a Torah perspective?
And also wanted to send this message to the op, who if I’m not mistaken, says she has just started shidduchim and is finding the various pressures overwhelming.
I want to tell you lb that this is not a normal Torah value, to put physical beauty above all else and therefore there is no need to succumb to such pressures
Actually it also been translated into lashon kodesh
@ubiquitin thanks for reading it. Sorry it still wasn’t clear๐. Not sure why unless you only read the first segment of the “story”?
The source is likutei sichos chelek 15 page 183-190. Maybe the text without the jokes will be clearer? The whole shakla vtarya can be found there. (Assuming you know Yiddish)
“: The ื ืืืข ืืืืืื psakens that shitfus is assur (as Avoda Zora) for gentiles”
OK but afaik that isn’t universal. I think it’s the Rambam who paskens its mutar for a goy.
“and the Rambam paskens that Christianity is Avoda zara .”
For a goy as well?
By hp the daily Rebbe video showed today the Rebbe blessing cuomo to win the election and conditioning that in doing well for the general community.
Ugh this is a sickening discussion to me at least. In general, anything that makes a big difference to a marriage should be discussed. Not every bit of information needs to be disclosed such as every wound suffered or every first grade secret.
The fact this discussion is even taking place means there are people in the Torah world who have reached such a low level that they value looks as the ikkar so they would get upset about such a thing. I don’t know anyone who for plastic surgery for shidduchim either and the suggestion that one would need one to get married I also find sickening.
Thinking about it it would make sense that it was forces of klipa that took over the bodies, not shedim because shedim are beings on their own.
They were created last second on erev shabbos in the six days of creation and need to eat and drink like humans, but can change their appearance. Their feet look like chickens get and are the only thing they can’t change. they also have access to spiritual realms that regular humans don’t.
OK maybe I should finish the story.
The beginning is as above. The family lived in an inn located between two cities atop a mountain. When the wife sickened and died, the husband had to leave her body alive to climb down the mountain and fetch the chevra kadisha.
When they returned, she opened the door and asked where her husband had been. He was completely weirded out and asked the CK members to sleep over. The next day they said they need to tend to dead people, not live ones, so they left.
Years passed and the couple had kids.
One day the BST stopped at the inn with his talmidim. They made a Minyan to daven mincha but as soon as they started davening, a huge storm started and shook the house. The students were thrown to the ground.
As soon as the BST finished davening, the storm ceased. It had been so strong that the mountain had split in half. The wife and kids were dead on the floor. That’s when the BST explained that his wife’s body had been taken over by forces of tumah and they had used her body to birth children who were also forces of tumah.
The BST with his mincha accomplished that they should leave and never mix with humans again.
If I’m not mistaken, they were taken over by shedim. But I could be wrong.
It is notable to mention that in r’ yoel Baal Shem times the is a documented story of shedim taking over the apartment is an dead couple and scaring the wits out of the other tenants.
Nowadays we don’t hear such stories anymore.
Dybuk stories are less common as well although Rabbi kaplan from Toronto had an experience with excorcising one it seems
The end of the quote is so what to do? Believe every sorry could have happened…
Avik no its not bit believing Hashem can’t do something through a tzadik is… Tzaddikim domim lboram. Anyhow its not a halacha, just a pisgam. But I have no clue what type taking about about impossible stories that go against halacha cvs, and I know many many stories.
That’s why you’re a lawyer….
@ubiquitin I see you don’t understand my examples. Please see the Menorah files by tzvi Freeman (available online) for a humorous easy to read write up of these very deep concepts – at least the Aron and Chanukah ones.
No the amos weren’t different sizes, it was doing the impossible.
Anther example was the miracle of Chanukah : the oil burned yet didn’t burn for eight days (as otherwise the miracle would only be for seven days as they had one days supply of oil)
And we see practically that with the endorsement of gedolei Yisrael, that in the girls schools they aren’t only teaching halacha but also other inyanim of Torah and they should continue to do so and increase in this manner.
There is more to be said on this topic (such as topics of learning that are meant more for women than men) but I hope I haven’t bored you. If you’d line me to continue, I will gladly. Hope this has cleared up any confusion.
The only chiddushim were:
1) establishing girls schools because in the past girls learned from their mothers due to modesty. But since they were learning bad ideas outside the home, it was eis laasos laHashem, and gedolim endorsed the establishment of girls schools.
2) in a similar way we can apply this also to learning gemara for girls, because since girls are anyway learning to question, armumis, not only is it ALLOWED to teach them Torah shbaal peh, but in line with the reasoning for the halacha, we MUST reach them Torah shbaal peh, and not just the REASONS for the halachos, but also the SHAKLA VTARYA (back and forth discussion), because by nature, both men and women enjoy this learning more, and in this way they will get their armumis, questioning skills, in the spirit of our holy Torah.
Also women are greatly encouraged to help their sins abd husbands learn:
One of the main ways to encourage kids is to ask them what they learned in school, and they also increased their own knowledge this way.
Similarly by asking their husbands what they learned and discussing it with them. In gemara sota it seems from the lashon that not only did the women accompany their husbands to the beis midrash and pick them up, but some would learn with them mikra and mishna.
All the above is without any chiddush from nowadays.
This also includes learning Chassidus because it explains and helps internalise the mitzvos of emunas Hashem, yichud Hashem, ahavas and yiras Hashem which women are obligated in just as men.
A woman who learns on her own anything she isn’t obligated in, receives schar for her learning and can also make the Brocha over Torah learning.
Besides this, there were many unique women throughout history who were boki and great scholars in all Torah shbaal peh.
Some examples :
Bruriah
Rachel Rashis daughter who wrote halacha and tshuvos for her father in his old age.The wife of rabbeinu Tam, miriam, who paskened shaalos uteshuvos.
The chasam sofer learned with his daughter aggados chazal.
I can give you more if wanted.
There were also women who reviewed their husbands works and edited them
The reason for the exceptions was because they learned in their own enough to show they qualified as exceptions to the majority of women whose minds aren’t focused
@gaon in response to your request on where I got my ideas on the original issur of women learning, I looked up the topic.
I realized that I synthesised two sources:
Here are all the sources that forbid women’s learning :The Rambam writes in hilchos tt Sof perek aleph: the chachamim commanded that a person should not teach his daughter Torah because most womens minds aren’t focused, and through this they’ll learn to question (nichnas ba armumis). And whoever teaches her Torah is as if he teaches her immorality. But a person should teach his daughter chumash.”
Now it should be noted that nowhere in this prohibition does it prohibit teaching halacha- in fact it was their obligation to teach their daughters hilchos nidda, tvilah, salting, issur yichud etc. as well as any mitzvos asei not bound by time as well as all lo saasei of Torah and chachamim.
And nowadays at the end of golus, this would include dinim of korbanos etc.
Tbc
That’s like saying wouldn’t everyone live in the level of emuna and bitachon like SMR if they would get out of jail years early, and miraculously to boot?
First you need to live that way, then you get the brachos. The more you do the more brachos. But it’s not easy.
@solaro a Baal Shem Tov story is a story about the Baal Shem Tov. I know it didn’t finish the story where the Baal Shem Tov killed the shedim because I didn’t see that point as relevant.
@joseph because he thought it was his wife who came bask to life.@avik that could be. You remind me of a saying I heard about Baal Shem Tov stories : if you believed every one certainly happened, you’re a fool. If you believe any story could not have happened you’re an apikorus.
So to answer should we give tochacha?
Yes if:
1) you are giving out of a sense of caring for the other, NOT to shtech someone out2) the person is on your spiritual level- amisecha
3) it is likely to be effective
You have to be careful with all the above because as the posuk hocheiach tochiach ends off- vlo sisa alav chet.
If your are certain of the above go right ahead.
If not, bring them closer by speaking in a positive uplifting manner and you’re likely to get a good result with no risks involved
But by the Alter Rebbe’s time (and how much more so today) the fire and brimstone effect wore off, gehennom burnt down, and it wasn’t inspiring people anymore.
So they were thinking of making gehennom scarier, but the tzaddikim said that its not gonna help for long. Better idea to bring out the beauty of Torah and mitzvos, and how we have the best life possible, refurbish gan Eden.
The Alter Rebbe told this story :
One day gehennom burnt down. The malachim were thinking of building a bigger and better one, but then the tzaddikim complained that gan Eden will be outdated while gehennom is freshly renovated.
The malachim acceded to their point and decided to refurbish gan Eden, and make the old gan Eden the new gehennom.
One way of understanding this story is as follows:
Hashem wants us to do Torah and mitzvos, but it’s hard sometimes to overcome going along with the yetzer hara. So He created gan Eden and gehennom to keep us in line.In the generations before the Alter Rebbe there was allot of maggidim who would rouse the yidden to teshuva and becoming better people with their vivid descriptions of gehennom.
To be continued as this is long.
@ingolus if that’s why you picked your Moniker, to keep yourself in a constant state of teshuva and yearning for the geula, then I guess it’s good for starters :). Living with a Geula mindset is avoda itself – and the more of us that do this, the more we will show Hashem that there’s no point of keeping us in golus and He’ll be (happily) forced to bring the Geula.
Just one example from my life : money. Golus mindset : is better to be poor/ struggling because it helps me to remember that all money and evening I have comes from Hashem, I turn to Him more often, and serve Him better. It’s easier to forget Hashem or slack off when I’m rich.
Geula mindset : what is money here for? So goyim can use it to build themselves palaces?! No its here to be used to serve Hashem. I can run so many more programs, host more guests, and help out so many more people with money. So it’s better to be rich because that’s where the money should go!
The world is ready for moshiach. We got to live this way!!
@wolff you reminded me, I learned once how can we trust Hashem to fulfill His promises? Aren’t they limiting Him?
Same idea. The answer is no they aren’t because He wrote these rules and if He binds Himself to rules He creates, that’s not limiting Him, because He is choosing to limit Himself abs not an outside factor.
So I guess the same may apply with logic?
Otoh He can do the impossible such as the Aron example I gave above where it both did and didn’t take up space.
Interesting thread. There is a quote from Sefer charedim quoted in perek lamed beis Tanya, that would clear up Apr of this.
The posuk says hocheiach tochiach es amisecha. Amisecha means your fellow, hence the mitzvah only applies to giving rebuke to someone on your level of yiras shomayim and Torah and mitzvos.
On this note, I heard a wonderful story lately, I’ll post it in the following post iyh
Exactly!! I love the way you put it ingalus (although I object to your username๐ How bout living with a Geula mindset now? That will bring moshiach quicker!)
Lb I know of a baal Shem Tov story where this woman passed away and no one guarded her body because her husband had to get the chevra kadisha and she opened the door when he came back…. Because her body was taken over by either a shed or forces of klipah aka lilis…. Anyhow they had more kids together who were also shedim/Offsprings of lilis and had no neshama….
Maybe it’s because afaik lo sischanem only applies to idol worshipers and not all goyim. Now goyim are allowed to believe in shitfus or more than one power, even though a yid can’t, so that means christians are not necessarily aku”m which means that unless you live in India, blessing most non Jews shouldn’t be an issue.
@DY
Yes, but that doesnโt do any more to answer the question, because I would assume that Hashem re-creates the spiritual worlds as well.What that was addressing was the question why, if I’m responsible for my intention although the result is not up to me, is there a halachic distinction as to whether someone is chayiv misa cvs. Meaning they are only chayiv if they actually kill the person, but not if they wanted to, so why the distinction?
I’m answering that they did kill him, on a metaphysical level. And will be punished for it milimaala unless he does teshuva. Just here in the earthly realm, bes din is extremely cautious with putting one to death (for example circumstantial evidence is never accepted) so that they don’t end up killing someone who was really innocent.
Hashem knows the heart and He judges by it. We metals can only judge what our eyes see happen.
Ie hanistoros laHashem Elokeinu vhaniglos lanu ulvoneinu ….
But since on Shabbos the worlds are elevated, the worldโs lifeforce comes from Hashemโs Thought as opposed to His Speech.
If you would like to actually understand this practically I’ll be happy to elaborate. Thanks Daas yochid๐. Now how can I post images from a sefer?
“Hashem uses the way the world existed in the previous moment as a template for how He creates it in the next moment.”
Yeah this is when He works through nature mode.
“More fundamentally, we are responsible for what seems to be the result of our actions, even if in a higher reality we didnโt really cause it (perhaps LU said this).”
Agreed but I would add that every intention and every action causes an effect in the spiritual worlds even more than in this world.
The example given is the story of the Baal Shem Tov who once walked into shul and heard a guy yell to another one that he will tear him up like a fish!
The Baal Shem Tov had his students link arms and close their eyes and they suddenly shrieked in horror because they saw the guy actually ripping up the other. Every thought word and action has an effect, whether in this world or Above.
Question to Daasyochid: how do you manage to italicize the words? It makes it much neater
“Why am I responsible for the consequences of the actions I do if at the time of the consequence my action is no longer around? If I shoot an arrow, by the time it causes any damage, we are in a different world with some sort of master-illusion of my arrow in itโs trajectory, but it wasnโt me who shot this arrow!”
nothing we do can hurt someone if it wasn’t intended for them, and we are held responsible for our choice- whether good or bad. See letter 25, from iggeros kodesh of the Alter Rebbe. Actually I cant post it below because its too long, and I also cant post a link, so I guess google tanya, and in the igeres hakodesh section, its letter 25.
Btw, apparently, science has discovered this reality as well, that the smallest they can break things down to, is energy, which constantly goes in and out of existence. So our world with hard, concrete objects is just a facade, and the Asara Maamaros is the code for everything- each object as explained above.
Beyond that, every letter of the aleph beis has a specific meaning which is shown in its form, and in each word in lashon kodesh, the letters actually form what the meaning of the word is. I have just learned this in some depth and find this fascinating! I opened a thread on it, but havent bothered to elaborate as no one seemed quite interested.
I will get back to you with the first answer IYH
“what were the 6 Days of Creation, if every second the entire world is re-created?”
In short, Hashem created the world, in six days, through the asara Maamaros. Hashem then constantly recreates the world every second by “repeating” the asara maamaros.To understand how this works, and also how the AM create every object in the world, please see the Alter Rebbe’s Shaar Hayichud vihaemuna, perek1 below:
ืืืืื ืืขื ืืืขืจ ื”ืฉ ืืืืจ ืืฉืืข ืืฉืจืื ืื’ ืืื ืืืืื ืขืืืื ืืืฉืืื”ื ืืื ืืืืื ืชืชืื:
ืืืืขืช ืืืื ืืืฉืืืช ืื ืืืื ืื ื’ ืืื ืืืืืื ืืฉืืื ืืืขื ืืขื ืืืจืฅ ืืชืืช ืืื ืขืื. ืืฆืจืื ืืืืื ืืื ืชืขืื ืขื ืืขืชื ืฉืืฉ ืืืืื ื ืฉืจื ืืืื ืืชืืช ืืืจืฅ ืฉืฆืจืื ืืืืืืจ ื”ื ืืืฉืืืช ืื ืืืื. ืื ื ืืชืื ืืขืืื ื’ ืืืจื ื ืฆื ืืฉืืื ืืคื’ ืืืขืฉ”ื ื”ื ืื ืืืจื ืฉืืืจืช ืืื ืจืงืืข ืืชืื ืืืื ืืื’ ืชืืืืช ืืืืชืืืช ืืื ืื ื ืฆืืืช ืืขืืืืืช ืืขืืื ืืชืื ืจืงืืข ืืฉืืื ืืืืืืฉืืช ืืชืื ืื ืืจืงืืขืื ืืขืืื ืืืืืืชื ืืืืชืื ืืืืจ ืืืืื ื ืืงืื ืืขืืื ืืืืจืื ืืืื ืืงืืืืื ืืขื ืื’ ืื ืืืื ืืื ืืืืชืืืช ืืกืชืืงืืช ืืจืืข [ืืจืืข] ื”ื ืืืืืจืืช ืืืงืืจื ืืื ืื ืืฉืืื ืืื ืืืคืก ืืืฉ ืืืื ืืื ืืื ืืื ืืืื ืงืืื ืืืืจ ืืื ืจืงืืข ืื’ ืืืฉ ืืื ืืื ืืืจืืืื ืฉืืื ืืขืืืืืช ืขืืืื ืื ืืชืืชืื ืื ืืืคื’ ืืจืฅ ืืืื ืืืฉืืืช ืืืื’ ืืืื ืืืฉ ืืืื ืืื ืืกืชืืงืืช ืืื ื ืืจืืข [ืืจืืข] ื”ื ืืืืชืืืช ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืจืืช ืฉืืื ื ืืจืืช ืืืจืฅ ืืฉืฉืช ืืื ืืจืืฉืืช ืืืชื ืืืืจืช ืืืื ืืืคืก ืืืฉ ืืื ืืคื ื ืฉืฉืช ืืื ืืจืืฉืืช ืืืฉ ืื”ืฉ ืืืจ”ื ื”ื ืฉืื ืืืืื ืืืฉ ืืื ืืื ืื ืืขืคืจ ืืืื ืืฉ ืืื’ ื ืคืฉ ืืืืืช ืจืืื ืืช ืืืืื ื ืืื’ ืืชืืืฉืืช ืืืชืืืช ืืืืืจ ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืจื’ ืืืืืืช ืืืืืืช ืืช ืืืืื ืืืืืช ืืฉ ืืืื ืืืคืก ืฉืืคื ื ืฉืฉืช ืืื ืืจืืฉืืช
ืืืฃ ืฉืื ืืืืืจ ืฉื ืืื ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืจืืช ืฉืืชืืจื ืืขืค”ื ื ืืฉื ืืืืช ืืืื ืข”ื ืฆืืจืืคืื ืืืืืืคื ืืืชืื’ ืืืชืืืืืืช ืืจื”ื ืฉืขืจืื ืคื ืื ืืืืืจ ืื”ืฉ ืืก’ ืืฆืืจื ืขื ืฉืืฉืชืืฉื ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืจืืช ืื ืืฉื ืืื ืฆืืจืืฃ ืฉื ืืื ืืืื ืืืืชื ืฉื ืืืื ืืื ืืื ืื ืืจืืื ืฉืืขืืื ืืฉืืืช ืฉื ืงืจืืื ืืื ืืืฉืื ืืงืืฉ ืื ืื ืืืชืืืช ืืืืืจ ืืืฉืชืืฉืื’ ืืืืจืื ืืืืจืื ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืจืืช ืฉืืชืืจื ืข”ื ืืืืืคืื ืืชืืืจืืช ืืืืชืืืช ืืจื”ื ืฉืขืจืื ืขื ืฉืืืืขืืช ืืืชืืืฉืืช ืืืืชื ื ืืจื ืืืืืืชื ืืคื ืฉืืื ืคืจืื ืื ืืจืืื ืืืืืื ืืงืื ืืืืชื ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืจืืช ืขืฆืื ืฉืืชืืจื ืฉืืืืืช ืื ืืฉื ืืื ืขืฆืื ืืืื ืืื ืืืื’ ืื ืืจืืื ืคืจืืืื ืืืื ืื ืืื ืืงืื ืืืืืช ืืื ืข”ื ืฉืืืจื ืืืืืช ืืืฉืชืืฉื ืืืืจืื ืืืืจืื ืคืืืชื ืืื ื ืข”ื ืืืืืคืื ืืชืืืจืืช ืืืืชืืืช ืืืืืืจืืืืช ืฉืื ืืฉืืื ืืืืชืืืช ืขื ืฉืืืื ืืืชืฆืืฆื ืืืืชืืืฉ ืืืืชืืืืช ืืื ื ื ืืจื ืคืจืื ืืื ืฉืื ืืฉืจ ืืงืจืื ืื ืืื”ืง ืืื ืืื ืืืืืช ืืืฆืืืฆื ืืืืชืืืช ืฉื ืื ืฉื ืฉืชืืฉื ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืจืืช ืฉืืชืืจื ืฉืืฉ ืืื ืื ืืืืืช ืืืจืื ืืฉ ืืืื ืืืืืืืชื ืืขืืื ืืืืจืืืชื ืืงื”ื ืืืื ืื:“what happens on Shabbos, where HKBโH โrestsโ from any creative force? The world is still being created every second, isnโt it?”
Yes it is. But since on Shabbos the worlds are elevated, the world’s lifeforce comes from Hashem’s Thought as opposed to His Speech.
Thanks, I guess I’ll try again. For me, the most demoralising thing is feeling I have wasted my time. I only have the last few moments of golus to accomplish what I can, and so I try to use my time well.
If my past posts can be allowed through, and whatever was found problematic edited out, with a reason I can keep in mind for the future, that would be wonderful. I think it’s worth the time because as I said, I’m a rule keeper and it’s good for me to know so I save both my own and the mods time.
I will try again on a different thread and I’m requesting the above there as well, as I do not try to post anything problematic, and do have a Torah source for what I do write.
Sorry for the disruption of this thread. Thanks allot.