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Part of my post disappeared:
should read: Our family having arrived from Suwalki and Germany in the late 1860s there were no members left who learned Yiddish at home. It was not the Mameh loshen. We attended the local yeshivah high school in the mornings and took academics at the public high school afternoons.
Being fluent in both Hebrew (Ivrit) and German made learning Yiddish easy.
Zahavasdad………..
Things change over time. The postwar baby boom is over. When mys siblings and I went to school in New Haven, both Hebrew and Yiddish were offered along with 10 other foreign languages. Now there is Spanish and Chinese.
As for those who write about prewar Yiddish and post war Yiddish. 90% of the Yiddish I use is with people speaking the former and whatever reading is of classic material, not modern Jargon.
I learned Yiddish for business purposes. My father was in the clothing business and it was useful for buying trips in NYC. Our family having arrived in the USA in the late 1860s from Suwalki and took academics in the public high school afternoons. Hebrew and Yiddish assured that 2 of 4 classes were all yidden.
Joseph…it’s a typo, he left out the ‘a’and ‘n’
google Yidddish Language Lessons there are many free on line resources.
I took Yiddish as a foreign language at my public high school in New Haven back around 1970. They also offered 17 other foreign languages.
Last month our daughter who lives in France flew into JFK. She didn’t have a US sim card in her phone, so she used the payphone after clearing customs/immigration to let me know to pull to the terminal and pick her up.
I haven’t used a payphone in about three years. Prior to that, courts in CT did not permit phones with cameras in the building. I would have to check my cellphone with the judicial Marshal before clearing security and if I had to make a call while in the building I used the payphone. They had booths to provide privacy.
When it became almost impossible to get new cellphones without cameras the rules changed.
Sorry Joseph………….
Read my lips, no new taxes. Instead Bush gave us user fees.
There are many reasons Clinton won, don’t give all the credit to Perot.
I have always stood where the gabbai instructs me to stand. This avoids problems and possible insults to the minhag of the shul.
When I belonged to a Nusach Ari shul (non-Hasidic) they would leave the sefer torah rolled and covered on the bimah, so we stood to the side.
In the Litvak shul I grew up in, the sefer torah was dressed and put into a stand before haftorah, so we stood in the center of the reader’s table.
In my zaideh’s shul they leyned haftorah from a klaf so you had to stand in the center of the bimah in order to spread the scroll.
stinkweed
Mammale………
We have a bubble for the winter that makes the pool usable 12 months a year. I have no idea what safety reasons you write about. All of us in the family worked as lifeguards at summer camp over the years and are/were certified.
And this is just another reason I prefer to live OOT with my own private swimming pool in my completely private, fenced and tree obscured yard.
No depending on government to supply our needs
Zahavasdad…….
You are right. Many people don’t have these things, but many people have much more.
B”H this is America, land of opportunity. It is possible to have landed at Castle Garden or Ellis Island, or Idlewild and within a generation or two moved to a standard of living not possible for Jews in the alte Heim unless they were Rothchilds.
A great deal of this is about making choices. I prefer to live OOT, but close enough to avail myself of shopping, cultural events and schooling. Small town or suburban living is not for all Frum Jews, tho Chabad seems to expand to these areas and thrive.
The other thing, as I don’t know your approximate age, is something my parents Z”L told me and I told my children:
You cannot expect to begin you adult married life at a standard of living it took your parents 30-40 years to achieve.
mw13
I don’t agree with you at all. Buying the best you can afford and keeping it for a very long time does not make you materialistic. No one has the right to say I should do with less if I pay for it all myself, don’t go in debt to do so, give more than a tithe in Tzedaka and don’t flaunt what I have in the faces of those less able to afford it.
I laugh at DY comments about a 3 million dollar home, a 150K car, 5K watches and the winters in Florida and summers in Israel.
My home is worth 1/3 of that…granted I purchased it in 1991 for 100K and have made the expansions/improvements over time. True, if it were in Brooklyn it would be worth the 3 million. I drive a 12 year old car, my last single child living at home drives a 10 year old luxury car that used to belong to my wife. My wife got a new car this year just before taking ill and it was under 50K. As for the watch…I wear a Rolex day in day out. It cost me $1600 back in 1984…that’s $50 per year for its use and it will outlive me and go to my eldest son decades from now.
I do have a home in Florida, BUT I travel there to see my clients who are either snow birds or permanent residents…I am a member of the Florida Bar and it makes sense to have this home which also serves as my office..I’ve owned it since 1980. I don’t take $50,000 vacations or even $10,000 vacations.We make Peasch at home and cook from scratch, no takeout prepared meals as many in town Yidden often serve. In addition to Jewish education costs for my five, this poppa has paid for college and law school for many of them.
I don’t need to apologize for having what I’ve accumulated in life. I worked hard to get it. I’m not showy or in your face with these things. I don’t have an iPhone 6S..I have a simple flip phone. I don’t live beyond my means. I don’t have the largest most expensive house in town. I shovel snow, I cut my lawn, I’m the one who vacuums the swimming pool and drags the garbage cans to the curb on Sunday nights.
mw13……………
“+1. I’d add luxury cars as well.”
My Oma taught me “cheap is dear” ????? ??? ?????? for those more comfortable in the language of eastern Europe.
Always buy the best quality you can afford, it’s less expensive in the long run than buying lesser quality.
I drive a 12 year old Jaguar XJ8 Vanden Plas. It cost me $70,000 new in 2004. That was an expensive luxury car then (I won’t buy/drive German vehicles). It now has 60,000 miles on it. The only expenses besides insurance, tax, and fuel have been scheduled oil changes and maintenance and I am now buying a new set of tires. I fully expect that I’ll still be driving it another 8 years. $3500 per year to drive in luxury is not expensive. BTW…I didn’t finance or lease it. I buy what I can afford at the time.
Why should any of us have to drive a Chevrolet because someone else thinks there is a better way for us to spend the money I/we earn?
As long as I don’t ask to borrow from you, or scholarship assistance for my children and/or grandchildren and pay all my bills promptly while still giving appropriate tzedaka, then it is none of anyone else’s business.
I have found over the years that most people who make these comments about how the other person lives and spends are actually jealous, but don’t admit it.
BTW>>>we won’t be taking a Sukkos trip this year (not that we usually do), the out of pocket costs (after insurance) for Mrs. CTL’s ongoing hospitalization now exceed $40,000. B”H she is improving, is eating, talking and starting to walk….but even with Hashem’s help it will be a long recovery.
So, in the scheme of things, it’s only money. It can’t buy you health or happiness or a place in Olam Habah.
You must replace the joker with a 4. After that you can separate the run as you please:
1,2,3,4
5,6,7
or
1,2,3
4,5,6,7
or
1,2,3
4,5,6
take the 7 and add other tiles for a third meld
Broken record time:
As a small town resident Jewish American, Memorial Day is a big thing.
Most homes in our town are flying flags. The Town replaced the flags on the utility poles on the Main Street parade route this year, selling them to individuals in memory of loved ones lost in service to the USA. I bought 4.
I started my day at minyan and there was a special Kaddish for lost Jewish American soldiers. I had a great uncle killed while serving in the US Army in France in 1918, an uncle killed in Korea and two cousins in Viet Nam.
After shul I went back to the hospital to visit my wife. At noon there were ceremonies at the town veterans’ memorial park. Then at 2PM there was a parade (delayed because of morning rain). Jewish children marched with synagogue youth groups. There was a convertible with members of the Jewish War Veterans (WWII, Korea and Viet Nam).
It is only after these commemorations of the sacrifice made by service personnel for our liberty that family celebrations began. No one rushed off to the mall in the morning, they would risk scorn and shame by their neighbors.
Health…..
The Bar Overseers is NOT the Bar Association.
The name of the government agency that disciplines lawyers is different in many states. I went to law school in Massachusetts. There it is called the Board of Bar Overseers. Here in CT it is called the CT Bar Examining Committee. I don’t know the name in NJ. These are the agencies with power to fine, suspend or revoke licenses.
Bar Associations are trade groups, I don’t bother paying dues or belonging to them.
BTW>> I teach a law school course on Film and the Law. It is used to train lawyers what perspectives clients and juries may have gotten from Hollywood’s take on the legal system. I screen films from the Judge’s, prosecutor’s, defense attorney’s, defendant’s, and jury’s perspective.
I have been searching for a good film from the media perspective for years.
Newbee…
I’ve been a family law attorney almost 40 years. My experience is specific to CT and Florida.
Yes there are a few shysters out there who try to milk every dollar from clients, but they get slapped down by the Bar overseers after a few complaints.
It is always the horror stories that one hears. No one goes around talking about their great divorce experience. In the frum community there is little talk about divorce because it may ruin the children’s chances for shidduchim.
The telling point in Health’s post is that his ex-spouse had a lawyer and he did not. That is a major mistake. The couple is each too emotionally involved to represent themselves against emotionally detached professional representatives.
I wish I did no divorce work, but it is part of being a family law attorney. I tell my potential clients words taught me by my mentor 40 years ago (an old Italian-American Catholic Attorney). You must be fair with your spouse. He/she is not your enemy, you loved him/her enough to marry (and have a family). I will not destroy your spouse. the settlement must be equitable. If you have children you will be connected for the rest of your lives. You want to be included in family events. If you are not willing to share equally with your spouse, please go find another lawyer.
Health…….
New Jersey is a nightmare divorce state. A female first cousin of mine went through a 4 year nightmare divorce there.
Every state is different. Here in CT, no judge would listen to an attorney saying ‘counseling wouldn’t work.’ The divorcing couple is sent from the courtroom to a counseling center in the courthouse where they must provide full documentation of the failed counseling sessions..or schedule and have lengthy counseling through the court before the trial may go forward.
You are correct that if one of the couple wants a divorce, it will be granted eventually. No one may be forced to remain in a marriage by civil authorities.
Personal note: I have been mostly absent from the CR due to Mrs. CTL’s lengthy hospitalization. B”H last night after 13 days she has finally been moved from ICU to a regular room and I have been able to sleep at home in my own bed.
Thank you all for your prayers, mi she berach offerings and encouragement. We greatly appreciate it.
newbee……………
Don’t believe what you are told.
I am a family law attorney. I don’t encourage divorce. My clients have decided to sue for divorce BEFORE they contract my services.
Here in CT, state judicial procedures require couples to undergo marriage counseling, either private or through the court, before a divorce trial can proceed.
In my decades of experience, I have found that professional marriage counseling almost always leads to divorce, not saving the marriage.
A long drawn out divorce is usually not about increasing legal fees (I typically charge a set amount for a divorce) but endless negotiations over stuff or child custody/support.
90 percent of the divorces I handle go smoothly and take the minimum 91 days required by statute.
BTW, judges in our family courts regularly require the couple have a minimum of 6 months of marriage counseling before the divorce suit can go forward.
When there are children involved, costs go through the roof and the time frames lengthens considerably. Parents are required to attend parenting classes before the divorce and custody are granted. The court may appoint attorneys for the children and guardian(s) ad litem.
To keep it in perspective in recent years my fee for an uncontested, no children divorce with one court appearance for the granting of the divorce is about $3000 plus costs. Once there are children involved, custody/support disputes or property fights the fees/costs can skyrocket.
To keep our sanity and solvency, our firm only allows each attorney to take one contested or custody issue divorce at a time.
DBRIM
Charlie Hall
Taking a break from 12 hours saying Tehillim and sitting in the ICU watching machines keep Mrs. CTL alive.
I don’t ever wish this on anyone, but you can be sure that in this type of situation, Israel is not one’s only priority. The life and health of one’s spouse, the mother of your children, the grandmother of your grandchildren, your partner in life is your number ONE priority.
Priorities change with circumstances, that doesn’t mean other things are not important.
Personal request:
and I don’t care if you are in town, OOT, out of country, Misnagid, Litvish, Yeshivish, Republican or Democrat…..
Prayers for Mrs. CTL: Bina Chanah Bas Chayah Rochel. She was just admitted to ICU with complications from last week’s surgery.
Don’t know when I’ll be back in the CR
Personal request:
Prayers for Mrs. CTL Bina Chanah Bas Chayah Rochel. She was just admitted to ICU with complications from last week’s surgery.
Don’t know when I’ll be back in the CR
Joseph….
an anecdote…
Rav Henkin’s son lived and worked and raised his family in New Haven when I was growing up. He was the Director for the New Haven Bureau of Jewish Education. In the post WWII baby boom, out of town communities had such positions. He wrote the curriculum and many of the texts used by after school synagogue Hebrew Schools for all denominations. His wife had attended Hunter College with my mother in the early 1940s. She taught Hebrew School for years at the largest Conservative synagogue in the area.
Joseph…………..
not for argument’s sake, but as a point of observation. Look at your list and see how many of these were first generation immigrants who settled in NYC and never moved on. Not an unusual thing.
My great-great grandfather landed in NYC in 1868 with his wife and 5 of his children. He was horrified when my great grandmother and her husband moved out of town to Brooklyn (a separate city) in 1895, buying a house in Boro Park and raising a family there.
dbrim
or should I say stalker?????????????
Who are you to tell me what my ONLY priority is??????????????
You certainly are not my Rav or father Z”L or spouse B”H.
You have an agenda that is different than mine. In America we have the right to voice our own opinions.
I’ll not reply to you again. Unlike the biggest social media website, we don’t have an option to block here, or you would be blocked. Grow up and learn a little respect for others.
dbrim…………..
Not busted. I wrote I’d rather X than Y. I didn’t say I support X. I have repeatedly said that I won’t vote for Trump. The reality is that I’ll vote for the Democratic Party’s nominee. BUT Secretary Clinton is not yet the nominee. I did not vote for her in my state’s primary.
Prejudice is not against immigrants, I admit to not liking Germans. Read a bit about Grandpa Trump and how after returning to Germany from the US he was stripped of his German citizenship for avoiding military service and deported back to the US. He tried to buy his way out of the deportation but the local government said no.
Feivel, Newbee….
I didn’t take offense. If I was afraid of adverse comments, even in jest, I wouldn’t post and I certainly would not be involved in local politics.
I don’t consider myself to have great wealth, aside from my family>wife, children, grandchildren.
The point is a dollar buys much more house and land outside of NYC. That’s why those in the suburbs put up with a much longer walk to the one orthodox shul in town.
It’s all about choices and what makes one feel comfortable.
yes
Newbee….
My parents left NYC (he was from Brooklyn, she from the Bronx) with my older siblings for Connecticut in 1950. I was born here.
They went back. My father Z”L in 2009 and my mother Z”L in 2015 to be buried in the family plots in Mt. Hebron Cemetery, Queens.
All of us siblings lived in Brooklyn at one time or another in our early adulthood, but chose to make our permanent American homes and raise our families in New England…one sister in Massachusetts, the rest of us in CT. She and her husband have just retired and are moving 4 houses away from me. They had no desire to return to NYC.
Living an hour from Manhattan and 90 minutes from Queens and Brooklyn is just right. Not too far to travel for a simcha, a special meal, to shop in a specific store, attend a concert or shiur, but far enough away to avoid the hassles, hustle and bustle.
I have one son and daughter in-law plus grandchildren living in Brooklyn. They will be joining us in Connecticut at the end of the school year. Their 3 bedroom apartment has just gone to contract for a sales price that will let them buy a 5 bedroom 4 bath home here, plus pay the kids tuition for 2 years.
It’s all about priorities. We are misnagdim, we don’t have to live nearby a particular rebbe. Our extended family is large enough that food purveyors gladly deliver our orders from NY. None of us miss schlepping with a baby carriage on the Avenue or trying to use an overcrowded public park. I rather my kids/grandkids are in my 2 acre backyard, swimming in my private pool or playing tennis or basketball on my court and not subject to the noise and pollution of the city.
CharlieHall>>re: Prominent Jews in the Bolshevik regime:
“With the notable exception of Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov), most of the leading Communists who took control of Russia in 1917-20 were Jews. Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party’s executive secretary and — as chairman of the Central Executive Committee — head of the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.6
Lenin himself was of mostly Russian and Kalmuck ancestry, but he was also one-quarter Jewish. His maternal grandfather, Israel (Alexander) Blank, was a Ukrainian Jew who was later baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church.” From Mark Weber’s paper for the Institute for Historical Review.
mdd…………..
If your adherence to or your accepted interpretation of Halacha requires opposition to a certain law, then you have choices of: working within the system to change the law, breaking the law and suffering the legal consequences, moving to a country with different laws…..or (and I do not advocate this) overthrow the government <see how well that worked for Jewish Bolshevists in the long run>.
There is no standard amount. The marketing arm of DeBeers and the American Retail Jewelers organizations suggest three months gross income for working individuals.
You should only spend what you can comfortably afford. You should also take into account the norms in your community. If your kallah’s classmates, friends and relatives sport 1 carat diamonds, don’t buy her a 4 carat stone, even if you can afford it. She will feel awkward wearing it and attracting attention.
Avi…………..
Go back 3 days and read my first post in the thread. I stressed voting and getting involved you you have a voice in setting governmental policy and law.
As long as something is the law, then what the law is the issue. Changing the law is a second issue.
A broker’s obligation is to present all offers to the seller. The seller chooses which offer to accept. Sometimes a lower price offer may be accepted, it’s not all about money.
The question of halachic acceptability is not a question of the law of the land. Our obligation to halacha does not obligate the vast majority of Americans
Biggest issue: dissension between different groups of religious Jews.
My affiliation: EuroTraditional Misnagid OOT
mdd……………….
Be careful what you type. Read EVERY WORD I have posted in this thread and you will NOT find that I have supported “Civil Unions.”
I have stated that same sex marriage is the settled law of the USA. I also stated that civil marriage (NOT union) is solely a means of allowing 2 people to avail themselves of government protections and benefits.
NOWHERE will you find that I advocate same sex marriage. As a Justice of the Peace I do not perform them and the CT State Government does not require me to do so. I am NOT a government employee and can choose which marriage ceremonies I perform and which I don’t. I don’t perform intermarriages, either.
RebYidd23……..read the 2nd paragraph of my reply to Sam2
If there appears to be a pattern of refusal of service to a particular group an investigation may take place, followed by legal action.
In the 1950s my parents wanted to establish a new Jewish community in a small farming town 15 miles from New Haven. The farms were being sold off for development. As soon as the real estate brokers found out they were Jewish the land became unavailable. My father went to the State’s Attorney (we don’t have DAs in CT) he took the complaint and the government sent out test shoppers to see if there was in fact discrimination. 4 Brokers lost their licenses and were fined thousands of dollars when the discriminator pattern was establish by the government.
Businesses are test shopped all the time for discriminatory practices after complaints.
You need a street address to register to vote. However, when I ran for office my campaign committee used a PO Box.
My street address for voting is an old Victorian house in my district with my Law offices on the main floor and rental units above.
Sam2
Sorry, to correct you. I can refuse to sell any individual a cake, just because I don’t like them. I cannot refuse to sell them a cake because of Race, Age, National Origin, and in some states gender and sexual orientation.
If I refuse to sell Joe Schmoe a cake because I don’t like him….fine, but if I also do so to Sam Schwartz, Chaim Cohen and Murray Klein, then the chances are an investigation may take place to see if I am just refusing to sell to Jews.
Please remember, most of us US Coffee Room members live in the northeast or other ‘Blue’ states. The Equal Rights Amendment failed ratification to the US Constitution, but it was made part of many of our state’s constitutions, such as CT and NY.
Don’t apply the rules of our forward thinking or liberal states with the rules in other places.
This discussion morphed form a comment made about a Presidential candidate and same-sex marriage which is the rule of law in the country.
Other discrimination varies by state, some legal some not.
With this I’ll end responses on this thread and care for my wife and pay a bit more attention to my law practice….B”H my newly married daughter and son in law both passed the February bar exam and are working for me, taking up the slack while I take care of Mrs. CTL.
Avi,
You just don’t get it. Selling some one a cake doesn’t make a baker a participant in a marriage ceremony.
I was in the kosher bakery business in the 1970s. We were out of town. We had many non-Jewish customers and at least 10 times as many non-kosher keeping Jewish customers than those who observed hilchos kashrus.
Once a cake was paid for and left our premises, we had nothing to do with what food it was served with or where it was served. Selling a cake didn’t make us participants in the events. Even writing a sentiment on the cake didn’t make us participants. In fact our involvement ceased the moment the cake was paid for and title passed.
You have no clue what compelled speech means. The government has to compel the speech. Here the same sex couple wants to buy a cake, they can’t compel a baker to inscribe anything. They can merely choose to buy elsewhere if the baker does not wish to write a particular sentiment. What the baker cannot do in some states is say I won’t do this because you are gay. The baker can say I choose not to have your business because it is in conflict with my religious principles.
Remember the Freedoms in the Bill of Rights and guarantees such as Freedom of Speech refer to Government action, not that of individuals.
As for the Senate’s responsibility to consider a Supreme Court nomination, it is not a law, it is in Article 2 Section 2 of the US Constitution. “He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court,…”
The President has the power to appoint Supreme Court Judges with the advise and Consent of the Senate. If POTUS makes an appointment this lays out the Senate’s obligation to render advice and requires consent for confirmation. You don’t need laws for what is already in the Constitution.
DY and CA thank you for your prayers and thoughts. Mrs. CTL is resting comfortably. Today’s surgery was B”H without complication but there will be more coming.
Even though we kibbitz and disagree on politics and such wen it comes to the important things, the members of the Coffee Room always pull together as am echad.
Avi……..
You change the scenario I presented.
I said the hall is rented for a celebration meal. I did not say a marriage takes place there. Frum people do things differently than most of American society. Most Americans get married in a Church or other place of Worship or at Town/City Hall and then choose a place for a party. The chances are a Frum couple renting a wedding hall will not be same-sex.
Same sex marriage law does not require a baker to do anything. There are other laws that deal with discrimination against someone because of sexual orientation. That is not what was under discussion here.
I’m not in Oregon, neither are you. State laws vary.
I would hope the President gets to make appointments to the Supreme Court. The current Republican led Judiciary Committee is shirking their responsibility in holding hearings on a current nomination.
The next President has no more right to appoint than the current one.
Vote for whomever you wish, I’ll not be voting for Trump.
I’ll not be following up on this thread anytime soon. Mrs. CTL is having another surgery this morning.
Popa,
I saw him going through my bag and then the video footage from our security camera at our front door. I was able to determine it was the same man.
People finding my name don’t find it that easy to find my home address. Most searches will bring up my office address. My home is owned and listed in an LLC name.
My name on the brass nameplate is my Hebrew Name xxxx ben xxxx.
Wolf…………
I’m not foolish, Talis and Tefillin are not cheap items. They also may have sentimental attachments.
Many years ago when I lived in another city, I used to leave my weekday Talis and Tefillin bags on my seat in the minyan room at shul. Many seats had brass name plates for those who had purchased them. Those without nameplates and guests sat in seats without the brass tags.
I was late to minyan one morning because there was a car accident blocking the road. I entered and saw an unknown elderly man going through my bags.
Two days later he showed up at my home schnorring for some bogus charity. He wouldn’t leave my wife alone (I was not home). She called him out saying the charity was bogus, as there’d been a notice in the shul bulletin about it. He wouldn’t take no for an answer or leave, she had to call the police to remove him from our property. Ever since then I don’t put my home address and/or number where unknown people can find them.
coffee addict………..
The President does NOT elect a Supreme Court Justice (they are not called judges). The President nominates and the Senate must confirm. Unless the Democrats take control of the Senate, a Supreme Court Justice nominee by a Democratic President will be middle of the road.
Wolfish………..
Like you my name is embroidered on the bags.
I do not have my name and address in the bags. Frankly, the bags often sit on the table just outside the minyan room, while I’m inside davening. I don’t want strangers looking in the bag and getting that info.
I do have my business phone number and my English name on a card inside the bag.
Avi….
Why are you assuming the marriage ceremony takes place in the banquet hall. It may very well take place at City Hall. Chances are that a same sex couple will not be looking for a frum catering hall to hold their celebration affair.
The government can’t make any non-government employee perform a marriage ceremony. We are not slaves of the government.
Not every one who performs marriages is ‘licensed’ by the government. This varies from state to state. Here, in Connecticut, any ordained in state clergy can perform a marriage ceremony. The couple still needs to procure a marriage license from the Town/City Clerk’s office where the ceremony will be held, and record it with the Toiwn/City Clerk in either the locale where it was issued or the new residence municipality (In State) of the newlyweds.
Frum people who bring in a clergy person from out of state (very common, my daughter was married here in April and the Rav was from NY) typically have the Town/City clerk perform a civil ceremony when picking up the license, or have a Justice of the Peace (I’m one) perform one, then have a religious wedding ceremony later.
Judges don’t generally make a habit of performing marriages unless there is a personal connection to the couple or their families.
AND absolutely none of this has any bearing on a choice of Presidential Candidate. This is all settled law in the USA.
Joseph….
The law being discussed doesn’t require one to do anything. It gives permission for 2 adults to do something according to the secular laws and receive the accompanying benefits.
Avi…
The baker, owner of a hall, caterer and other vendors are NOT participants in a secular marriage. They are vendors to a celebration. They choose to sell, rent or not to do so. We are not talking about public accommodation laws that affect vendors who have liquor licenses, etc.
None of my comments have been in support of a particular candidate.
I don’t read minds…I tell my children and grandchildren this regularly. If you meant Jewish Communists in America, then you should have typed that.
As for your argument that shuls could lose tax exempt status. NONSENSE. The legalization of same sex secular marriage cannot compel same sex religious marriage in a house of worship. The government can only apply public safety laws and codes to religious institutions, not tell a shul’s Rav he must perform a ceremony.