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RebYidd23……..read the 2nd paragraph of my reply to Sam2
If there appears to be a pattern of refusal of service to a particular group an investigation may take place, followed by legal action.
In the 1950s my parents wanted to establish a new Jewish community in a small farming town 15 miles from New Haven. The farms were being sold off for development. As soon as the real estate brokers found out they were Jewish the land became unavailable. My father went to the State’s Attorney (we don’t have DAs in CT) he took the complaint and the government sent out test shoppers to see if there was in fact discrimination. 4 Brokers lost their licenses and were fined thousands of dollars when the discriminator pattern was establish by the government.
Businesses are test shopped all the time for discriminatory practices after complaints.
You need a street address to register to vote. However, when I ran for office my campaign committee used a PO Box.
My street address for voting is an old Victorian house in my district with my Law offices on the main floor and rental units above.
Sam2
Sorry, to correct you. I can refuse to sell any individual a cake, just because I don’t like them. I cannot refuse to sell them a cake because of Race, Age, National Origin, and in some states gender and sexual orientation.
If I refuse to sell Joe Schmoe a cake because I don’t like him….fine, but if I also do so to Sam Schwartz, Chaim Cohen and Murray Klein, then the chances are an investigation may take place to see if I am just refusing to sell to Jews.
Please remember, most of us US Coffee Room members live in the northeast or other ‘Blue’ states. The Equal Rights Amendment failed ratification to the US Constitution, but it was made part of many of our state’s constitutions, such as CT and NY.
Don’t apply the rules of our forward thinking or liberal states with the rules in other places.
This discussion morphed form a comment made about a Presidential candidate and same-sex marriage which is the rule of law in the country.
Other discrimination varies by state, some legal some not.
With this I’ll end responses on this thread and care for my wife and pay a bit more attention to my law practice….B”H my newly married daughter and son in law both passed the February bar exam and are working for me, taking up the slack while I take care of Mrs. CTL.
Avi,
You just don’t get it. Selling some one a cake doesn’t make a baker a participant in a marriage ceremony.
I was in the kosher bakery business in the 1970s. We were out of town. We had many non-Jewish customers and at least 10 times as many non-kosher keeping Jewish customers than those who observed hilchos kashrus.
Once a cake was paid for and left our premises, we had nothing to do with what food it was served with or where it was served. Selling a cake didn’t make us participants in the events. Even writing a sentiment on the cake didn’t make us participants. In fact our involvement ceased the moment the cake was paid for and title passed.
You have no clue what compelled speech means. The government has to compel the speech. Here the same sex couple wants to buy a cake, they can’t compel a baker to inscribe anything. They can merely choose to buy elsewhere if the baker does not wish to write a particular sentiment. What the baker cannot do in some states is say I won’t do this because you are gay. The baker can say I choose not to have your business because it is in conflict with my religious principles.
Remember the Freedoms in the Bill of Rights and guarantees such as Freedom of Speech refer to Government action, not that of individuals.
As for the Senate’s responsibility to consider a Supreme Court nomination, it is not a law, it is in Article 2 Section 2 of the US Constitution. “He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court,…”
The President has the power to appoint Supreme Court Judges with the advise and Consent of the Senate. If POTUS makes an appointment this lays out the Senate’s obligation to render advice and requires consent for confirmation. You don’t need laws for what is already in the Constitution.
DY and CA thank you for your prayers and thoughts. Mrs. CTL is resting comfortably. Today’s surgery was B”H without complication but there will be more coming.
Even though we kibbitz and disagree on politics and such wen it comes to the important things, the members of the Coffee Room always pull together as am echad.
Avi……..
You change the scenario I presented.
I said the hall is rented for a celebration meal. I did not say a marriage takes place there. Frum people do things differently than most of American society. Most Americans get married in a Church or other place of Worship or at Town/City Hall and then choose a place for a party. The chances are a Frum couple renting a wedding hall will not be same-sex.
Same sex marriage law does not require a baker to do anything. There are other laws that deal with discrimination against someone because of sexual orientation. That is not what was under discussion here.
I’m not in Oregon, neither are you. State laws vary.
I would hope the President gets to make appointments to the Supreme Court. The current Republican led Judiciary Committee is shirking their responsibility in holding hearings on a current nomination.
The next President has no more right to appoint than the current one.
Vote for whomever you wish, I’ll not be voting for Trump.
I’ll not be following up on this thread anytime soon. Mrs. CTL is having another surgery this morning.
Popa,
I saw him going through my bag and then the video footage from our security camera at our front door. I was able to determine it was the same man.
People finding my name don’t find it that easy to find my home address. Most searches will bring up my office address. My home is owned and listed in an LLC name.
My name on the brass nameplate is my Hebrew Name xxxx ben xxxx.
Wolf…………
I’m not foolish, Talis and Tefillin are not cheap items. They also may have sentimental attachments.
Many years ago when I lived in another city, I used to leave my weekday Talis and Tefillin bags on my seat in the minyan room at shul. Many seats had brass name plates for those who had purchased them. Those without nameplates and guests sat in seats without the brass tags.
I was late to minyan one morning because there was a car accident blocking the road. I entered and saw an unknown elderly man going through my bags.
Two days later he showed up at my home schnorring for some bogus charity. He wouldn’t leave my wife alone (I was not home). She called him out saying the charity was bogus, as there’d been a notice in the shul bulletin about it. He wouldn’t take no for an answer or leave, she had to call the police to remove him from our property. Ever since then I don’t put my home address and/or number where unknown people can find them.
coffee addict………..
The President does NOT elect a Supreme Court Justice (they are not called judges). The President nominates and the Senate must confirm. Unless the Democrats take control of the Senate, a Supreme Court Justice nominee by a Democratic President will be middle of the road.
Wolfish………..
Like you my name is embroidered on the bags.
I do not have my name and address in the bags. Frankly, the bags often sit on the table just outside the minyan room, while I’m inside davening. I don’t want strangers looking in the bag and getting that info.
I do have my business phone number and my English name on a card inside the bag.
Avi….
Why are you assuming the marriage ceremony takes place in the banquet hall. It may very well take place at City Hall. Chances are that a same sex couple will not be looking for a frum catering hall to hold their celebration affair.
The government can’t make any non-government employee perform a marriage ceremony. We are not slaves of the government.
Not every one who performs marriages is ‘licensed’ by the government. This varies from state to state. Here, in Connecticut, any ordained in state clergy can perform a marriage ceremony. The couple still needs to procure a marriage license from the Town/City Clerk’s office where the ceremony will be held, and record it with the Toiwn/City Clerk in either the locale where it was issued or the new residence municipality (In State) of the newlyweds.
Frum people who bring in a clergy person from out of state (very common, my daughter was married here in April and the Rav was from NY) typically have the Town/City clerk perform a civil ceremony when picking up the license, or have a Justice of the Peace (I’m one) perform one, then have a religious wedding ceremony later.
Judges don’t generally make a habit of performing marriages unless there is a personal connection to the couple or their families.
AND absolutely none of this has any bearing on a choice of Presidential Candidate. This is all settled law in the USA.
Joseph….
The law being discussed doesn’t require one to do anything. It gives permission for 2 adults to do something according to the secular laws and receive the accompanying benefits.
Avi…
The baker, owner of a hall, caterer and other vendors are NOT participants in a secular marriage. They are vendors to a celebration. They choose to sell, rent or not to do so. We are not talking about public accommodation laws that affect vendors who have liquor licenses, etc.
None of my comments have been in support of a particular candidate.
I don’t read minds…I tell my children and grandchildren this regularly. If you meant Jewish Communists in America, then you should have typed that.
As for your argument that shuls could lose tax exempt status. NONSENSE. The legalization of same sex secular marriage cannot compel same sex religious marriage in a house of worship. The government can only apply public safety laws and codes to religious institutions, not tell a shul’s Rav he must perform a ceremony.
Avi…
The government can’t compel anyone to participate in a same sex marriage. The only participants are the two people getting married. The clerk who issues the license is not a participant in the marriage. The officiant is not a participant in the marriage. The baker selling a celebratory cake is not a participant.
When new neighborhoods were being built to accommodate the post-WWII baby boom, it was not about living among anti-semites. Groups of Jews sought to buy unoccupied land and build new Jewish communities including shuls, schools and shops. This happened to my parents and a group of 20 families who were repeatedly legally stopped.
As for halacha requiring Jews who own businesses to give preference to hiring Jews. Dina Malcusa Dina. If you choose to live in the USA you agree to abide by the laws. This isn’t Tzarist Russia or the USSR where Jews were kept in by force. If you don’t like the laws, work to change them through the political system or leave.
I am amused by your comments about Jewish Communists marrying other Jewish Communists. In most cases they weren’t free to marry anyone else but another Jew because of government or church regulations in the old country. That USSR identity card carried a mark of religious/ethnic identity. The first generation of communists in Russia/USSR came at a time when the vast majority of citizens were members of the Russian Orthodox Church and rabid anti-semites. They had no interest in marrying Jews..Communist or not.
nfgo………….
Thank you for recognizing what I wrote and not just being incensed that I admit to being a Liberal.
The USA is a wonderful place for Jews who choose not to live in EY. The protections we have are because of liberal changes to the status quo.
I have seen and owned properties whose deeds issued at late as 1963 precluded Jewish ownership. I have been discriminated against because of religion LEGALLY before 1964. I have a female relative who needed a prescription of birth control pills for medical reasons, not prevention of pregnancy–she was 11 years old at the time. Before the Supreme Court decision in Griswold v. Connecticut in 1970 that was illegal in Connecticut.
Conservatives wanted to keep things the way they were: in the hands of White, male Protestants. I’d rather a female Dem I have personally known since 1970 (when she was attending Yale Law School) than the grandson of a German Protestant immigrant with questionable business dealings and 3 marriages and some bankruptcies.
Health
I’m a Liberal and Secretary Clinton is to my right. Senator Sanders is to my left. Without a Liberal Party and card carrying members adhering to a party platform, the word liberal means different things to different people.
I resent you calling me a liar. I gave opinions. You state “she wants Gay marriage.” I don’t want any part of a gay marriage for myself, BUT I support extending civil rights and opportunities to all US citizens without discriminating on the basis of sexual preferences. Civil marriage is a contract between 2 adults and it gives certain tax and other benefits. It has nothing to do with religious marriage and the accompanying rules.
I practice family law. Before CT made same sex marriage legal, I had to arrange for a same sex couple who had been together 40 years to become an adopted parent and an adopted adult so that the partner could be involved in the partner’s medical decisions. The partner was dying of cancer. There were no relatives. The hospital and doctors would not take direction and the couple had a civil union. Luckily adult adoption was legal. The partner with cancer lived long enough for our State Supreme Court to change our law in 2008. They married in the hospital. The cancer victim died 3 months later and the survivor now that the Federal law has changed is getting a spousal Social Security benefit.
Just because a civil right is extended to a group, doesn’t mean you have to make use of it.
In the 1950s, my parents couldn’t buy a house in certain neighborhoods because they were Jewish. My brother was rejected by Princeton in 1962>>>told the Jew Quota was filled. It didn’t matter, he went to Harvard.
In 1961, I attended a public school for 4 months due to a medical problem that required I be 1 block from the hospital for twice daily treatments. I resented the forced recitation of Christian prayer. When the Madeline Murray O’Hare group of Atheists won their battle in the Supreme Court, prayer in public school was made illegal. I’m a Liberal who supports this decision. Most in the Hareidi/Yeshiva community will never deal with this, but the vast majority of American Jews go to public schools and this made life more tenable.
Avi K
Actually this Liberal wants integrated neighborhoods in all 50 states, not just Mississippi. I Have liberal social values, that doesn’t mean I advocate paying for all these rights with tax dollars. I’d never want my wife or daughters to have an abortion. In fact as the adoptive father of 2 children I would not have received them if their bio-moms had abortions. That doesn’t mean just because the Supreme Court legalized a woman’s right to choose I believe the Government should pay for it.
I don’t know how old you are. I’m old enough to have lived before the enactment of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I remember when it was legal in the USA to refuse employment to Jews and Blacks as well as housing. Liberals changed this. I’m proud to be one.
I stated that Secretary Clinton was not a Liberal. Mr. Trump is not a Conservative. I do not trust his judgment in in choosing advisers. Choosing Christie as head of a transition team when Trump has not been elected is the height of arrogance, and instills no faith in Trump’s choices.
I am not an Israeli, I do not base my vote solely on potential treatment of the settlements. There are many things higher on my list. It’s a matter of priorities. As someone whose family now stretched nine generations in the USA these priorities are different than yours.
If you don’t vote you deserve what you get.
That said the time to get involved is NOT on election day in November. If you want a true say in who the candidate of your preferred party will be you must get involved locally in the party. Be on a ward, precinct, town party committee. Attend caucuses, get elected to the City, County State Party Convention. Work and campaign for candidates.
Then you have a say. Waiting until you are presented with 2 party endorsed candidates you dislike is too late.
I am a member of my town Democratic Party Committee. I hold a minor, non paid elected local office. I am a delegate to State Representative, State Senate and State conventions this year. I have a say in who the candidate will be. This year we are taking the party endorsement away from a state representative who has not done a good job for our town (it is a multi-town district). The State Rep will be forced to run a primary campaign against the newly endorsed candidate. This Rep has aspirations of Statewide office in 2 years, my action as an involved party member may stop it.
@akuperma Secretary Clinton is not a Liberal, she is a Centrist who is preaching to Liberal Dems to offset Sen. Sander’s appeal. I am a Liberal and she is far to the right of my philosophy. Sanders is also not a Liberal, he is a Socialist>>far to the left of true Liberal ideology.
Trump on the other hand is not a Conservative. He is an opportunist happy to take every handout offered to business by Congress and state legislatures.
Feivel……………
Most legal work is extremely boring. Most attorneys seldom try cases. The bread and butter of our practices may be cut and dry contracts, wills, estates, filings, real estate closings, etc.
I don’t practice criminal law and do no personal injury work. 95% of my work is boring family law and trusts.
One son-in-law who is an attorney (but does not work for me..lives in another state) said that the only profession more boring than most legal work is being an auditor.
Yehuda………..
Lincoln grew a beard, it hid his face.
Mashiach…………yes, Lincoln was better than either candidate. Your deliberate disrespect to Secretary Clinton by capitalizing H for He (Trump) and then using a lower case letter for Secretary Clinton’s first name is childish.
BTW>>>in a comparison, the correct English word to use is than, not then.
Popa….
“Also, not sure what you mean they can’t present an alternative theory. The defense can still present true evidence and argue it indicates something.”
Alternative theory of the case in criminal defense is not what one would call “true evidence.”
If Client X tells his attorney “I broke in and stole $50,000 from Quick Mart Thursday Night.” The attorney #1 can’t put X on the stand if X tells the Attorney I’m going to testify I didn’t do it. The attorney also can call others to the stand, impugn their integrity and try to show that they were in the area, needed money, had shady backgrounds, knew the money was in the store overnight and the next day were seen making large purchases for cash.>>>>that would be an alternative theory of the case, that Y, an employee of Quick Mart, who had a drug or gambling problem, who knew the access points most accessible and which night a large amount of cash would be in the store, has no alibi for the night in question and paid his bookie or dealer $10,000 in cast Friday morning was a likely suspect, likely enough to raise reasonable doubt in the mind of the jurors. BUT this alternative theory of the crime isn’t ‘true evidence’ if Y didn’t commit the crime. What it is, is sworn testimony of those called for examination and cross, along with the attorney’s questions that become part of the trial transcript.
Again: Disclaimer, I do not practice criminal law, and except for the every 4=5 year pro bono case ordered to take by the court I don’t enter a criminal trial courtroom. Also rules vary by jurisdiction. Most criminal cases occur in state courts not federal.
Popa….
“If we required people to claim that they didn’t do it, that would be requiring them to testify against themselves. Which is illegal under the constitution’
Unless the client pleads guilty the client is required to say they didn’t do it by pleading not guilty (it can be by reasons of insanity, etc.) That is not testifying, because the client is generally speaking through the mouth of his attorney, and neither the attorney or the client has been sworn in to give testimony as a witness at that point.
Non-attorneys often confuse pleading and opening statements with sworn witness testimony. They are far different and have different rules and protections. That is why jury instructions often include a warning that nothing said by the attorneys in opening statements should ever be considered as evidence during jury deliberations.
Your logic that a not-guilty plea is testimony against him/herself is not true. A plea of guilty is against the defendant, and 5th Amendment rights can’t compel self incrimination.
Joseph,
If a client admits guilt to his attorney, the attorney cannot put him on the stand if the attorney knows the client intends to lie. The attorney also can not plead the client innocent and present an alternative theory of the case. The attorney can plead innocent because of mental defect, diminished capacity, etc. and attempt to win the case that way.
That’s why the attorney doesn’t want to know. If an attorney representing Joe Schmoe in a murder trial can raise enough reasonable doubt by showing the deceased’s widow, business partner, competitor, etc. had means, motive and opportunity it might get Joe off. But if Joe has told the attorney he did it, then only innocent because of XXX can be plead and argued by an ethical attoirney.
DaMoshe………….
a nice Ravameisseh…………
Unfortunately no facts to back it up and the Bubonic plague affected the whole of Europe.
Joseph,
any attorney that makes knowingly false claims in court just be reported to the Bar Committee (different name in each state) and have his/her license suspended/revoked. Lawyers are not allowed to make knowingly false claims or allow their clients to testify falsely (if the lawyer knows the testimony is false).
I practice family law. I have never knowingly made a false claim in court. This is not to say I have never made a statement based on information from a client that has been legitimately refuted. I did not know it was false.
For example, if a husband says he earns only $1000 week (and shows me pay stubs to match) and I argue based on that he can afford only X dollars per week child support or alimony and the wife’s attorney presents evidence gathered by their investigators that the husband also has a side job earning $400 week cash, then my claim has been refuted, but I didn’t knowingly present a falsehood.
I had a client last year who showed me pay stubs showing $75,000 yearly income. I refused to submit his signed financial affidavit to the court. I knew that he could not maintain his lifestyle on 3 times that amount and I would not suborn perjury.
Criminal attorneys are taught to never ask the client if he/she is guilty. This is knowledge better not known by the attorney in order to mount an effective defense.
member….
The Jews of Eastern Europe came from Germany where the tradition of wearing the Talis from Bar Mitzvah existed.
I would challenge you to show when the Pale was considered wealthier than Germany. I never used the term Western Europe. Those in France and Benelux did not have the same custom as Germany.
ZD…………
Ashkenaz was the word for Germany. German Jews often wear a Talis starting with Bar Mitzvah.
My maternal side is German, my paternal side Litvak. When it came time for my Bar Mitzvah, Opa bought me a Talis. My father explained to me that it was the custom on mom’s side of the family. I and my older single brother wore a Talis when we visited with Oma and Opa and attended their Yekkah shul. We didn’t wear them in our home shul.
I once hear Opa asked why the Germans started wearing a Talis at Bar Mitzvah and the Eastern Europeans not: His condescending reply: ‘The easterners were far too poor to afford both a Talis and Tefillin for the Bar Mitzvah boy. The boy might even receive the Tefillin of a dead ancestor, but the dead ancestor was buried in his Talis and it was not available for reuse. Instead the bride’s family was expected to buy the groom a Talis at marriage. Opa had only daughters, mom was the only one not to marry a Yekkah, Opa did not buy my father a Talis.
DaveHirsch>>>>>>>>>>>>
Since when did Hillary Clinton ever have the authority to pardon a criminal?
You don’t like her, fine>>BUT Don’t invent and print lies. She never was a Governor or President so couldn’t issue a pardon.
I’m not defending her, I’m objecting to spreading lies.
Popa_bar_abba
Don’t assume all ‘Jewish Camps’ that profess to be kosher have a Rav.
The one I wrote about in CT does not. It has Jewish Culture staff who lead prayer services. More than 50 years ago when I attended the shul shammos who taught me my Bar Mitzvah parsha was also the ‘Camp Rabbi’ in the summer, but he was not a Rav. That’s why a hecksher is needed.
CharlieHall>>>
Been there a number of times for events. BTW saw your pic accompanying a comment this week on an on-line AngloJewish Paper.
MW13
#1 If you trust the school to properly fill your child’s mind with kosher education, you trust it to fill their stomach with kosher food.
Kosher kitchens at public schools…such as the Universities or colleges have have heckshers. Here in CT The Harford Kashrut Commission supervises kosher dining at UCONN, Trinity, and Univ of Hartford. Yale is under the supervision of the Vaad HaKashrus of Fairfield County.
#2 Camps vary. There is only 1 Jewish sleep-away camp in CT. It was founded 80 years ago by the Jewish Community Council of New Haven. For decades it’s kashrut was questionable and kosher keeping Jews did not send their children there. In the early 1990s the local rabbanim insisted on a complete kashering of the camp. It’s kitchens were put under the supervision of the local Vaad and a mashgiach was sent out from New Haven every weekday to inspect and supervise cooking.
It was now kosher, but not CY.
Other camps are run by organizations and sects. If you adhere to a particular chasidic ideology, then you will trust the kitchen at their camp, just as you would eat from their shuls’ kitchen. The administration of the camp takes responsibility of the kashrut.
If the camp is privately owned and run (for profit) then it absoluteky needs a hecksher same as a hotel or restaurant.
dbrim…………
No, people vehemently opposed to Trump could vote for the Democratic candidate (not yet determined, but probably Clinton) without being blindly loyal to a party.
Geordie,
I started the Europe Thread May 1st as promised
Neville,
Our daughter does’t look typical Chinese. She is 5’9″ tall with a body that developed based on American Jewish diet, not a Chinese diet. She was always well bronzed from the sun and before marriage long wavy black hair. If you saw her in a Chanel or Dior Power Suit and pumps, walking into court you’d not think of her as anything but American, only Chinese usually pick her out by birth nationality/race
Joesph….
She considers herself White/Jewish American because she was raised in that type of family since before she could talk or walk.
There were many American Jews adopting baby girls in China when we did. The China 1 child policy led to many women giving up female babies for adoption hoping to have a male they’d keep.
Daughter had rejected Chinese language lessons as a child (commonly taken by adoptees in America), and until last year never expressed interest in a visit to the land of her birth. I’ve been to China about 20 times on business in the past 35 years.
She did not befriend other Jewish Chinese here in school or summer camp and just considered herself one of the family.
We always joked that when we went to fancy Kosher Chinese restaurants that had Chinese waitstaff that daughter was the one who needed a fork, while parents used chop sticks and mother could order in Chinese.
It’s all about Nature vs. Nuture.
BTW>>>we also have a domestic white adopted daughter who did seek out her birth parents at age 19 and was rejected by them. The Chinese born daughter will never have the opportunity as there were no records kept of these births. They usually took place at home and the babies were left on the step of the orphanage during the night sop the birth mother could not be arrested for violating the one child birth laws.
Our Rav suggested that we never consider a Jewish baby when adopting so the child need not worry about Mamzerus when shidduch time came. Having a child of another race lessens the problem further.
My daughter was married the beginning of April. She was born in China and adopted there by Mrs. CTL and I 25 years ago. We live OOT. She attended day school, seminary, College, Law School and is now along with her new husband working in my firm.
She had many shidduch inquiries and race was not an issue. In fact she does not consider herself Asian, but Jewish/White/American. Her husband was not a traditional shidduch date. He was a fellow law student and a non-frum female law professor suggested he ask my daughter out. She chose him over potential matches who wanted a kollel life, but whose families did not object to her race/color.
Goldilocks…………………..
You can ask and ask and ask that guest not bring any food or gift, BUT people who were brought up properly do not arrive empty handed.
Thus, we tell them the menu is set, the cooking is done, but it would be very helpful if you could pick up a bag of ice. They feel they are both bringing something, helping us out, in that we don’t have to leave preparations and go shop erev Yuntif/Shabbos.
And we never have to explain that we eat this hecksher and not that, or from this bakery and not that. Or even worse, the home you think is kosher isn’t up to our standards.
ZD……………
The grandchildren are up and I asked them what they wanted for breakfast today. I expected they’d want pancakes, toast, bagels, cereal.
NO, the overwhelming request was for matzo meal pancakes, and matzo brei made with egg matzo.
A long Pesach at the grandparents and they were missing those foods they consider a Pesach treat. I grew up in a home where these items were served. We eat gebrokhts, but somehow each year serve less and less as new members join the family and come from homes that don’t eat them.
Just because it’s fallen out of favor, or those who don’t eat gebrokts are growing to be a larger part of the community doesn’t mean I’ll abandon our family minhag.
Dov……….
Our standard reply when someone asks what they can bring to a Shabbos, Yuntif or other dinner invitation:
Please stop and pickup a bag of ice on your way, somehow even with built in ice makers there’s never enough.
Golfer,
No the two young sons did not grow up/end up as Frum Yidden. However, they have remained Jewish and married Jewish women. They and their still widowed mother and the boys’ children were all guests at our Seder Table. They arrived dressed for Yuntif and looking forward to their yearly dose of Yiddishkeit and mixing with the remnants of their late fathers’ family. They also brought lots of bananas.
As a segue, there had been a thread about family minhagim at the seder table. Traditionally, on the first night we host our immediate family and my wife’s relatives. The second night we have relatives from my side of the family. We cook recipes and special dishes that have come down on the particular side of the family for each night. In the drawer where we keep the guest Haggadot we have a collection of yarmulkes for the non-frum guests. They are from weddings and B’nai Mitzvah going back more than 50 years. We match guests with yarmulkes from their weddings, Bar Mitzvah or those of their deceased parents and grandparents. These two boys got a thrill when they were first given a chance to wear a yarmulke from their late father’s Bar Mitzvah or parents’ wedding, now each has a young son who proudly wears those yarmulkes at our seder and talks how they can’t wait to come back and be connected with their ancestors again.
We also use kiddush cups and other items that go back as many as 7 generations, and all the charoset is ground by hand in a brass mortar and pestle that my Great-Great grandmother bought when she arrived in America back in 1872 and had to make Pesach in a new land.
Happened to us 20 years ago. My late cousin’s wife came with her sons for the seder. She walks in and places a ‘Passover cake’ on the sideboard in the dining room. My wife took a quick look and saw that it was from a non-kosher bakery. She quickly thanked our guest, explained that tonight’s menu was already set and instructed the eldest daughter to place the cake in the garage where it would stay cool. Daughter picked up the cake in its box along with the cloth that was on the sideboard and walked to the garage. Somehow the cake managed to end up in the compost heap behind the garage.
After Yuntif, we sent a lovely note thanking cousin in law for the cake.
We couldn’t get upset with her. She was not brought up with any religious knowledge. Her husband passed away leaving two young sons and the annual sedarim at our home were their only connection to their Jewish heritage and our side of the family. Wife explained that we eat so much rich food for the holidays that we only serve fresh fruit for dessert. The following year she brought a bunch of bananas.
Pesach Break……………….
Thread resumes Sunday May 1.
Golfer…………
Peanut oil for Pesach seemed to disappear from the US kosher grocers’ shelves in the early 1970s. The same time as the major shift to Glatt meat from ‘regular’ kosher meat.
Ij, Iran
Gotta scratch that Ij
Geordie613>>>Maybe South America??? Depends on the Queen
Geordie613>>>>I spent many an evening at friends’ home in Yeoville in the mid 1970s. They lived in Yeoville, but davened in Berea.
Queen……….
I don’t care for the taste of walnut oil. Our Rav also says Canola is Kitnios.
I grew up with Peanut oil or schmaltz.
I still use schmaltz for many things, olive for non-cooked foods (salads, etc.) and succumb to cottonseed for most frying.
It’s only 8 days, we manage to not ruin our collective health because of Pesach.
Geordie 613
My pleasure
On a sad note, looking in the mirror and feeling old this Pesach will be 40 years since I last spent Pesach in southern Africa.
I am B”H thrilled to be old enough to have experienced what once was