☕ DaasYochid ☕

Who’s imposing anything on you? If that’s his opinion, he’s allowed to write it, and if your rav disagrees, you’re free to not follow it.

I saw the thread title. I saw that popa posted. I figured he’d say trolling (ah, the good old days…).

I wasn’t expecting beer and pizza (but the beer part does takeh explain a lot).

I disagree with that comparison. There is a big difference between having normal living conditions -like a dorm and food – and $300 Italian dress shoes.

I disagree with the comparison between a Borsalino and $300 Italian shoes, and your comparison between generation.

The basic point remains valid.

DaasYachid, you make it sound like a lot of frum people drive around in fancy cars.

That was a bit of an extreme example, and there are other chinuch errors which can lead to too much gashmius as well, but a common one is certainly parents’ overemphasis on gashmius.

You said, if deprived they’ll leave yeshiva, and….work! A dirty four-letter word I suppose.

Technically, it is four letters. 🙂

If you want to have young bochurim who could be learning leave yeshiva, we part ways here.

I rather see it as a sign of the “extreme decadence” of our reality/society (American Yeshivish)

More than any other part of society, or as a result of absorbing the increasingly decadent values of society?

We had our chance with wedding Takanos

There is still too much waste, but the very yeshivish chasunos I’ve been to lately have been relatively simple.

Very high physical/material expectations.

Not what I see in the very yeshivish crowd.

Maybe the expectations are unreasonably high, and maybe you don’t know how some bochurim, whose midos are not what you’d expect, are actually doing with their time.

Don’t get me started on Lexi, Infinities and Mercedes’ of the Yeshivish velt, to say nothing of the top of the line Leather Odyssey replaced every two years.

Very distasteful, but a very, very small minority in my experience.

As an aside, I believe it was Rabbi Bender in Far Rockaway who was very against the Borsalino for this reason, that it creates an expectation on a child that is very hard to resist.

But he apparently lost that battle, and as you say, it’s very hard to resist, which is why, although I don’t like it, I think a mountain is being made of a molehill. A bochur wanting a Borsalino, in the reality we live in, is not optimal, but is not indicative of extreme decadence on his part.

It’s always easier to spend others peoples money rather than money you yourself earned.

Not directed at you, Goq, but it’s also always a lot easier to bash others than work on your own shortcomings.

By and large, I find that the more time people spend in yeshiva and kollel, the less they are into gashmius, so it’s ridiculous to specifically bash yeshiva bochurim for this.

It’s like going to an auto assembly plant and seeing cars without doors, and deciding that you’ll never buy a Toyota because they’re missing doors.

Human beings are born selfish. It takes time, chinich, maturity, and working on oneself to overcome this, and truthfully, very few people ever do, and much fewer to the point of not caring about gashmius at all.

So, many bochurim want a good quality hat. Many of these same bochurim will end up living lives with very little gashmius, and great sacrifice for ruchnius, or even better, histapkus to the point that it’s not even a sacrifice.

Would you prefer that the ones who are too involved in gashmius leave yeshiva? Will that make them less so?

A fellow who was in yeshiva with me was a little too into gashmius for my liking. He found very up-to-date, stylish suits (Syms bash), had his 100% cotton shirts professionally cleaned and starched, and enjoyed a good meal at a nice restaurant. Should he have left yeshiva?

It would have been klal Yisroel’s loss, because he’s now a very fine talmid chacham and marbitz Torah. He also lives a simple lifestyle; small house, used minivan, Concord shirts, etc.

Daya Zooger, how much dies it cost to produce a hat, and what is the wholesale price?

Flatbusher, you’re being unrealistic. We live in a very decadent society, and it affects everyone. Sure, it’s not a god middah, but it doesn’t affect yeshiva bochurim any more than anyone else; probably the opposite.

I’m not sure what your point is. Is it to dismiss the overwhelming benefits of learning in yeshiva because bochurim like $260 hats, and send them to public schools (don’t forget that they start wearing hats when they’re 13) or college? Is it to increase mussar seder?

The reality is that they’re young men, in the process of growing, but they’re not perfect.

Lior, if I pay for Blue Diamond almonds and they send me Kirkland Signature almonds, you’d better believe I have the right to a refund.

Flatbusher, okay, you’re making a new argument. You think instead of boycotting, they should just change their purchasing habits. Well, that’s what they’re doing, but with the added feature of having most yeshiva bochurim change their purchasing habits, so that wearing the inferior hat won’t make someone feel poorly about it. If you’ll argue that nobody should feel bad about which hat they wear, I’ll remind you that they’re human beings, and are subject to peer pressure.

There’s no other hat, to my knowledge, that is of comparable quality. Regardless, the brand name alone is enough to be considered a different product.

Only if the same product is available for less. This is not the same product, and halachically, there’s no problem if a Borsalino costs 100 X the price of a different brand hat.

Well, it does matter in terms of your analogy, and in terms of the motivation.

If there’s anger, then maybe you’re right. That would be misplaced. I’m looking at this as a communal decision not to buy expensive hats, including people who can afford them, k’dei shelo l’vayesh mi she’ein lo.

Why davka today?

The ones who don’t want to learn in kollel don’t care about gashmius?

Also, does it cost Borsalino more to manufacture their hats than it does other, cheaper, companies? Are they ripping us off (which is their right), or do they need to charge more? The difference is the effect of a boycott: will it lower prices, or put a company out of business (or at least have them stop producing these hats)? Or, for that matter, raise prices?

They don’t look the same, and you can’t get them for $25.

Maybe get a Paul Young hat.

So it turns out, from reading this thread, that if you support boycotting Borsalino, you’re a communist, and if you’re against boycotting Borsalino, you’re also a communist.

I think I’ll remain neutral.

I had actually never heard of the Telegram app until this thread, but figured that’s what it must be.

The hair cost money too. How can there possibly be 100% profit? Unless you don’t mean that 100% is profit, but rather, that the cost is usually half of the sale price.

He doesn’t have to “send her” to a sheitel gemach, he can harmoniously discuss with her what the various options are and how they fit the budget.

Golfer, what’s wrong with oomis’ suggestions? He did ask for less expensive options.

You know that Obamahaters have nothing serious to say against Obama when they bring up golf.

Would you similarly say, “You know that Christiehaters have nothing serious to say against Christie when they bring up weight.”?

It may be true that arguments without substance are made against both sides of the aisle, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t arguments that are substantive.

When you started this, the only way you found to be dan l’kaf z’chus is that they’re refilling the cup. Take a look again at those lists, and you’ll see several other very reasonable options.

I think my pediatrician has my children’s best interest in mind. So report me.

There’s a messaging app called Telegram.

“You live on the East coast, not in Chicago, so you should probably follow the OU. Those in Chicago should probably follow the cRc.”

Don’t you have your own rav? Shouldn’t you be following him, rather than any kashrus organizations?