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DaasYochid, I hate to break the news to you, but if you define “Pro-Vax” as someone who believes
vaccines are beneficial but believes in skipping/delaying some vaccines –
YOU, DAAS YOCHID ARE ANTI-VAX!But wait, I think most kids should be vaccinated for MMR, Polio, DTaP, flu, and others, on schedule. I also dont believe there’s a link between vaccines and SIDS or autism. Am I still anti-vax?
Congratulations for joining the Side of Truth!
Thank you! Since I’m on the side of truth, will you agree to my previous opinions?
I don’t Know if Dr. Zimmerman is pro-vax or anti-vax.
I think you should do some research.
If you look honestly, I believe you’ll find that he believes the benefits outweigh the risks. Even the vaccines which he thinks could cause autism, he thinks are more likely to prevent a disease which could cause autism.
ProVaxxers, In the 1960s when there were only FOUR vaccines (not 72 like today)
were there massive epidemics, were people dying in droves from measles, mumps, chicken pox, polio,
diptheria, etc in the 1960s?define ProVaxxers
As time moves on their do become less guys available but this is BECAUSE of our system.
Wouldn’t you agree that there are fewer girls around as well? By the same number? The exact same number of guys and girls get married.
“The Shidduch crisis is a commonly observed and discussed phenomenon in the Orthodox Jewish community whereby eligible single persons, especially women, have difficulty finding a suitable spouse.”
So I would say their definition is a combination.
The OP certainly was referring to the disparity.
I dont fully understand the question.
I’ll ask it a bit differently. If we cut dating out of the process, but kept the typical ages intact, would there be a disparity?
DaasYochid – Is Dr. Bob Sears Pro Vaccine or Anti-Vaccine?
First answer my question please.
Funny, you haven’t had an issue with the precise definition of pro-vax when calling all of us liars.
Anyhow, I don’t think someone needs to follow every detail of the CDC recommendations to be considered pro-vax.
I’ll define pro-vax for the purpose of this question as someone who recommends that children receive most of the vaccines (not necessarily all and not necessarily at the precise times recommended by the CDC) being offered as currently being manufactured and distributed.
Does Dr. Zimmerman fall in to this category?
I’m still waiting.
I disagree that that’s what most people mean.
Do you deny that there are a lot more older single girls than boys?
Do you deny that based on how our current shidduch system works (now how it theoretically could work, but how it does actually play out) there aren’t enough boys for the girls?
First answer my question
Doomsday, is Dr. Zimmerman pro-vax or anti-vax?
Here is a partial list of questions which come along with ” thawed out freezer syndrome”
That’s excellent. Can we please see the rest?
Which seminary did the grandmother attend?
Haha
Meno, please share with us all of the bad jokes you’ve heard about this
But when the numbers do match up or at least can.
Yes, they can, if we close the age gap…
BTW I dont deny the Shidduch crises I deny the Age Gap™ as being a main cause .
What do you mean by the shidduch crisis? The disparity between number of available boys vs. girls?
I don’t think we should talk about shidduchim any more. It causes people to have a Whirpool of emotions, is a a very Hotpoint, and someone Maytag you as insensitive if you say the wrong thing.
(now you’ve heard three more)
Naftush, the side effect of the freezer is that hundreds of boys start shidduchim at the same time, but it’s certainly not the intention, and I don’t know that it has any effect on the overall picture.
Yes, the OP picked Tu B’shvat, when these boys start dating, to discuss whether they are properly prepared, but there’s no real connection.
Maybe there are ways in which the shidduch process is “engineered” that we can discuss, but the freezer isn’t a great example.
The rabbonim who advocate closing the gap seem to think not.
I’m sorry you don’t appreciate my humor.
No, and no, because I hope we’re not a society of obnoxious peoples.
The freezer doesn’t introduce young adults to each other.
“The freezer” as it’s called, is a rule with BMG has that a bochur first joining the yeshiva signs a paper that he will not meet with a prospective shidduch (in other words, date) for a few months. The reason this was instituted was not to change anything about shidduchim, it was so that bochurim will be settled into yeshiva when they start shidduchim, which helps them keep shidduchim from being a bigger distraction from learning than it would be if they started immediately.
Unless you mean that NOW there arent enough left., and I concede that that may be true.
Yes
But even closing the “age gap” wont help the current “older” singles
Unfortunately true
it is about trying to prevent future 34 year olds from being left behind
Right. And if we continue with the same exact shidduch process, where more girls enter the pool of available singles than boys every year, it will repeat itself in 15 years.
True if ALL 23 year olds only married 19 year olds there would be a problem.
Maybe this is the point we differ on. You say that if a small amount(e.g. 5%) would marry at the same age, it would solve the disparity issue. I say it will help, but not solve it. (Also there are those who marry at a bigger age discrepancy than 3-4 years which makes it worse).
Are ALL her classmates married to 38 year olds leaving her no one?
I don’t know, maybe all of her classmates are married, but there are are a bunch of girls from her grade (perhaps from different schools) who aren’t.
That just doesnt describe reality
If the numbers don’t match up, you can’t just pretend they do. Someone recently coined a term for that. It’s called “Shidduch Crisis Denial Syndrome™”.
True but what happened with the 40 year old boys (when they were 26 and she was 20), the 39 year olds? The 38 year olds? 37? 36? What about the 35 year olds? 34?
They’re married.
Those 10 extra are STILL left without a chair, at this point we would have t conclude that it cant just be the age gap keeping them without seats, they must not hear as well, or run as fast or something Just the disparity cannot explain how these 10 are still let standing round after round
It actually could in shidduchim, although in chairs you’d be right to assume there was a specific difficulty getting a seat.
In musical chairs, it doesn’t matter who sits in which chair.
If that were the case in shidduchim, the analogy would work. However, in shidduchim, the new entries, say the 23 year old boys, are unlikely to marry, say, a 34 year old girl. So even if in theory every girl had exactly the same qualities, the very fact that they have been playing musical chairs for a while (in other words, their age), is a prejudice against them. This wouldn’t be the case in actual musical chairs.
And I’m being serious, because I have a feeling we’re talking about two different things.
we just found an explanation that makes much more sense
An explanation for what?
This leads to one of two possibilities (of course a combination is possible)
either
1) the original 10 have all found shiduchim,, and the extra 11.6 are all relative new comers, so ok hopefully they will find their chairs in the next few rounds. No problem, thye arent waiting “forever” some wait longer than others.or
2) Those 10 extra are STILL left without a chair, at this point we would have t conclude that it cant just be the age gap keeping them without seats, they must not hear as well, or run as fast or something Just the disparity cannot explain how these 10 are still let standing round after round1) is only possible if the old timers marry the newcomers. In other words, closing the age gap. So we agree, but the problem is that’s not happening.
2) I don’t follow. There aren’t enough chairs. No matter how fast everyone runs, someone will get to the chairs before others.
As long as the Ribono shel olom keep creating more players and chairs even if they are different numbers. The game will never end .
There is an end game. People don’t stay in shidduch age forever.
It doesn’t make any sense in a changing system.
It does. I’ll illustrate.
At any given moment in time, there are more girls than boys in shidduchim. It changes because some constantly leave and enter, but when the same amount of boys and girls leave, it doesn’t change the disparity, and when more girls than boys enter, it only increases the disparity.
No, it makes sense even in a changing system, although we certainly don’t know who will be stuck without a chair.
Look up “di groise chasuneh” on Mostly Music, and listen to the sample of the first track.
Where do you see resistance? I think I’ve answered (almost?) every point addressed to me, but I don’t see others doing the same.
I always accept Put myself in the perspective of other people’s viewpoints.
So put yourself in the perspective of the people who think there’s no valid perspective which denies the demographic issue.
But I haven’t even seen studies that make enough sense to be called such.
Which part of the equation do you disagree with?
Sickest children in history? Do you know how many fatal childhood illnesses have been eradicated (or made curable) by modern medicine? Would you like to go back to a time when an ear infection or a cough could be fatal?
I imagine he’s quite busy, though.
I don’t have a question regarding that
I think you’re playing semantics
1) Ive seen NASI advertising that they’ve been successful in getting people to marry closer in age, I’m curious whether it has helped (which was their argument)
Well, I answered.
Meanwhile, I don’t think you’ve responded to my point that the disparity would exist even if we did arranged marriages, thereby making The Dating Divide™ irrelevant.
Why can’t ubiquitin be right?
Why can’t he be wrong?
There are flaws in every single vaccine study too. Yet, the evidence strongly points to their being effective and safe.
If we needed to literally be 100% certain about anything, and 99.9% wasn’t good enough, we’d be paralyzed and could never accomplish anything.
Bagleiten?
Preparing for marriage takes a lot longer than 3 months.
If someone has bad midos, immaturity, or messed up priorities, a few classes on marriage isn’t going to do much.
I’m not saying they wouldn’t be useful, but the problem isn’t the freezer, or Lakewood, or not hearing R’ Tatz’ shiur, which I’m sure is wonderful.
It runs much deeper.
BTW, the population is moving to Lakewood, The fact that these therapists moved there isn’t a raya that sholom bayis issues (per capita) are worse there than Brooklyn.
I think you mean last night was Yad BiShvat
Oops, can you please be motzi me on the brocha on the bukser?
in the past 5/10 years has the age gap gotten better? Has the shidduch crises? )
I don’t know why that question is relevant. Maybe you are suggesting that we closed the gap but it didn’t help?
Anyhow, I looked it up. Apparently, trying to close the gap by focusing on the older girls didn’t make much if a dent, because for the most part, the boys are still marrying the younger girls. So now, they’re pushing for younger boys to get married.
My question was:
“where is the hold up in the shidduch crises tM
I don’t see the relevance of that question to the disparity of boys to girls.
Again, (I don’t think you responded to this point) the disparity would still exist if we entirely cut dating out of the process.
“You answered your own question”
I dont see how.
Because you didn’t chap which question I meant…
I’m referring to your musical chairs/island question.
Yes, it’s not a closed island. But if more girls keep entering the island than boys, and the same amount of girls boys leave, the disparity remains and increases.
This will be even more true by next week once the freezer opens.
Tu BiShvat is tonight.
since this thread began more boys started dating.
This will be even more true by next week once the freezer opens.
(Of course more girls started dating too, and perhaps more girls than boys)You answered your own question. I’m not sure why you’re so confused.
There would be a shidduch crisis (perhaps in some ways worse) if we did arranged marriages instead of dating, but exclusively set up 23 year old boys with 19 year old girls.
Dating makes it worse in a way because many seem to take a long time to “find the right one”, but isn’t the cause of the disparity.
Also, can you please stop with the all caps? It’s quite annoying.
Your tobacco analogy has been shlugged up already. I don’t know why you’re rehashing it.
Joseph,Daas Yochid, TryingToStaycalm,
Too bad you have to bash a whole legion of. Jews before Shabbas , and especially before Shabbos Shira..
ZionGate, what did I say that got you riled up?
Doomsday, I’m so sorry about your nephew and the children you work with, but your pain doesn’t excuse your ill-mannered behavior.
Also, the fact that the parents of these autistic children feel they need to blame it in someone instead of accepting it as a g’zeirah min hashomayim doesn’t make their claims true.