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Sam2,
I often disagree with your posts, and have on occasion debated with you, but I haven’t noticed you insulting anyone. You’ve always been polite with me, IIRC.
Yes, sir.
Having fun, troll?
I don’t think the OP was considering a co-ed school.
There is no greater weight to a teshuvas haRashba, than the chidushei haRashba.
That would only be true if it was a theoretical teshuvah. If it was for a real case, the idea of “ma’aseh rav” applies.
Fontpark and fontyukle have Frankruehl bold.
Msseeker,
How are you converting to PDF?
I use a free PDF printer such as Primo PDF or cutepdf writer.
Is the PDF for viewing or printing? Sometimes a PDF will print more nicely than it shows up on the screen.
10952,
I think your second paragraph answers your first.
HIE,
Since one poster using this account has already mentioned that he attends Torah Vodaas, I assume that was the “son” and you’re the “little bro”. So ask you’re “big bro”. If you’re the “big bro”, why are you even asking?
Zahavasdad,
Chanukah is not about admiring the Chashmonaim throughout their history.
I don’t really get your point. Are you trying to say, chas v’shalom, that Chaza”l were mistaken to institute Chanukah?
So, in other words, he’s comparing fighting back against an armed force that is preventing people from learning and performing Mitzvos to people who scream “prutzah” and “zonah” to six, seven and eight year old girls?
He didn’t say what he was referring to.
Or is it possible, just possible, that some zealotry is good and others are bad?
That’s not only possible, it’s true.
If indeed, he was defending spitting on and yelling at eight year old girls, I also think it’s despicable and that Pinchas would never do such a thing.
Apushatayid,
You might as well just suggest that they stop doing it.
Because my mesorah is not according to Chacham Ovadiah Shlita”s derech; I don’t think it goes according to straight numbers (when it comes to acharonim, especially later ones).
Wolf,
No one suggested abolishing Chanukah.
His point was that the reasoning behind posters’ condemnation of zealotry would, if followed through consistently, lead to that conclusion, not that anyone actually suggested it.
I don’t know which posts he’s referring to, so I can’t agree or disagree.
Apushatayid,
Singles are available for download at Mostly Music, Sameach and Galpaz.
you dropped half my list
You didn’t cite sources, besides which, your list is anyhow incomplete.
You can post some content specific to your blog, and if someone Googles it, it will come up.
There are around 12,000 registered members.
No, there are around 12,000 registered user names. 😉
The Shach is also discussing Stam Yainam which is Assur to drink but Mutar b’Hana’ah
See Gr”a on the next line about mumar, which (by his reference) he defines as mumar l’avodes kochavim. I see no indication that he is toleh stam yayin davka on avodas kochavim.
So,what IS your point?
Not that yayin is mutar, rather that the same reasoning for the issur should apply to bishul.
unless you’ve had unapproved posts, this is the first time you are mentioning an IGM other than 1:45 and 1:46
I embedded the link in the word “this”. I apologize for not being more clear. I should have mentioned it by name (number).
did you realize that this teshuva from the unreliable 8th volume contradicts 2:132?
I don’t think it does. Of course we are noheg issur, in O”C 5:37.8, he is referring to the origins of the issur as minhag to allow it wherever it wasn’t nahug.
I still intend to reply to the rest of your earlier post, but am currently short on time.
So, popa, do you think the people who decided that the word “retarded” is an insult all had an IQ between 51-70?
Moron (psychology)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Moron is a term once used in psychology to denote mild mental retardation.[1] The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement.[2] Once the term became popularized, it fell out of use by the psychological community, as it was used more commonly as an insult than as a psychological term.
Origin and uses
“Moron” was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from the Ancient Greek word ????? (moros), which meant “dull”[4] (as opposed to oxy, which meant “sharp”), and used to describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51-70, being superior in one degree to “imbecile” (IQ of 26-50) and superior in two degrees to “idiot” (IQ of 0-25). The word moron, along with others including, “idiotic,” “imbecilic,” “stupid,” and “feeble-minded,” was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.[6]
Following opposition to Goddard’s attempts to popularize his ideas,[7] Goddard recanted his earlier claims about the moron: “It may still be objected that moron parents are likely to have imbecile or idiot children. There is not much evidence that this is the case. The danger is probably negligible.”[8]
There is no secondary meaning. When you call someone who has low IQ “retarded,” you don’t also mean “insult.”
No, the insult has to do with how the person is not properly using his intelligence, whereas retarded refers to an inherent lack of intelligence.
I thought maybe they reprogrammed the site so that the original username, not nickname, shows up. I tried it, though, and that’s not the case.
What I did notice, though, is that when switching back and forth between the news and the Coffee Room (why do you call news the main site? ;), I had to keep on logging in again. Is that normal?
Dr. Midos also came out against it. 😉
Where did you get this quote from? It’s not in the Igros Moshe we have been discussing until now.
From here (I mentioned this twice already):
I’ll bl”n get to the rest of your post later.
Retarded has indeed taken on a second meaning – you even use it that way! You don’t literally mean that someone who overspends on tea, or doesn’t chap that they could buy a coffee and spill it out, is mentally retarded; you are disparaging their (or your) lack of astuteness.
It’s primary meaning is someone with limited IQ, it’s secondary meaning is an insult.
I thought you meant something else, does that make me retarded? 🙂
Sam2,
I don’t know if that’s true or not, but normally, prices are determined by market forces. They’ll charge as much as they can get, no matter where the profits go.
It is no different from condemning some women for only wanting to wear designer clothing
Do you condemn women who spend $100 more on a better quality, or even a better looking outfit than the cheapest one available?
well i was going at it more from the kiruv rechokim POV rather than the kiruv krovim POV
Yes, but even if it only matters from one perspective, it still matters.
Your point regarding those who went off already, though, is very salient. At that point, there’s no reason to point fingers, it’s vital to show love.
Aries,
DY, yes they were, they were not talking about reasons schools kick kids out, which is what you assumed I was talking about.
Actually, you assumed that I assumed you were talking about kids being kicked out, but I really was talking (?) about kids not being initially accepted.
The story I related was just to present the perspective of the schools, but once a child has been accepted, it’s not very simple to throw him out (as in the story with R’ Shmuel Berenbaum zt”l).
Aries,
DY… The reasons they go off the derech is important for the General Olam so that WE can work on ways to correct it.
Yes, that was my point, I just didn’t see that perspective in soliek’s otherwise meaningful post.
aries,
I was speaking about the topic in THIS thread and you were referring to a topic that I discussed in another thread. I thought you agreed not to do that. At any rate, that is another discussion altogether and I had no intention of kidnapping this thread and taking it there.
I have absolutely no idea what you mean; I was completely on topic. The OP was talking about school acceptance policies.
Aries, I’m surprised (maybe confused is a better word).
On this forum, (and probably in real life as well) you’ve been at the forefront in discussing and debating the problems underlying OTD. In fact, on a current thread, you listed many reasons. Why do you agree with soliek now that it’s all beside the point?
When I wrote my previous comment, I was actually defending the usefulness of discussions such as the ones you often engage in!
In answer to your question, yes it does matter, not so much because of the past, but for the future.
Each generation has had it’s problems; you’re right about that, but the nisyonos have changed. The ta’vah for avodah zara is gone, so that battle has changed. The challenge presented by the haskalah has all but disappeared, as well. Today’s youth are, for the most part, confronted with a different set of chalenges, not the least of which are dealing with today’s technology and the decadence it allows, the overall moral decline of society and its infiltration into our communities, and the high stress level of today’s fast paced, hectic world.
How to deal with these problems is essential to keep our children in the fold, and identifying causes for youth leaving the path of Torah is an important key.
In your role as mentor to youth at (or beyond) risk, it is indeed more important to deal with the individual. It’s also vital to deal with our still frum youths as individuals, but our society’s norms are generally dictated by what’s best in general.
It is how to structure these general norms and policies which are the subject of much discussion and debate. Don’t belittle it just because your personal tafkid is, rightfully, focused elsewhere.
wat about torah vodaas
Ask your brother.
I don’t think so, R’ Moshe Feinstein does. (I think most poskim disagree).
???? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???, ????? ???
???? ????? ??????, ??? ???? ????? ??
He explicitly wrote that regarding Bishul a Mechalel Shabbos is not equivalent to a Goy ?? ????????? ?????? ????.
Please look up the word explicit in the dictionary; you’re using it incorrectly. You made a diyuk, that’s all. I learned it differently, and backed it up from the previous teshuvah (in which you choose to ignore “my favorite line”).
See the Shach 124:14 that Yayin Nesech depends on Avoda Zara
Of course it does, but we’re discussing stam yaynom.
That’s referring to a mumar l’avodas kochavim.
The Chasam Sofer YD 120 and Igros Moshe YD 2:132 also rule that way and specify a Mechalel Shabbos.
No doubt it’s assur, you don’t need to bring a raya. We’re discussing why it’s assur. You’re completely missing my point.
You also haven’t defended your contention that most poskim are meikil. The B’er Moshe disagrees with you.
??) ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???”? ?? ????? ???????? ???? ?????? ???? (???? ??? ??) ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ???) ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? (????? ??? ???) ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??. ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? (???? ??? ??) ?????? ???? ?????, ??? ??? ?”?
I didn’t try it.
It also annoys me when someone tries to tag something, but messes up, so you see something like this:
That’s exactly my point, only I said it much better<em.
I do this all the time.
Sometimes I feel the only posts that matter are mine. LOL
I often feel the same way (except that sometimes I like mine as well).
yitayningwut,
So do I.
🙂
Both point were already addressed. See Mahara”m Shick I linked above that there is no reason to be mechalek between yayin and pas, as well as the IG”M from six posts back (click on the word “this”).
aries, and scissors,
I guess we’re talking about different things. I’m not referring to a yeshiva which rejects a child based only upon external appearances or family history. I’m talking about children who are not accepted because of the potential negative impact they might have on other children.
(My point to you, aries, was addressing the fact that you seemed to be complaining that some of us don’t see things from your perspective, presumably that of an advocate for the children who aren’t accepted to the school of their parent’s choice. I was pointing out that the schools and we are advocating for the children who are already in the school or will be accepted.)
I once heard a story about a school meeting where there was a discussion about expelling a student. The child’s rebbe related the heartfelt pleas he heard from the boy’s parents to keep him in the school. To which the principal replied “you didn’t hear the mothers crying to me that their children’s neshamos were being sullied by this child”.
I thought popa wanted the Starbucks crazy thread closed. Which one was it, pba?
How about “blind” or “deaf”?
A good kasha. I would differentiate by pointing out that mentally retarded people were looked down upon more than deaf or blind people, so it’s more comparable to a racial epithet.
Also, you didn’t address the chiluk I made, in terms of a secondary meaning.
You’re right, I kind of missed it.
Now that I look at it, your chiluk (and I assume you’re referring to the fatso comparison) would be true if people weren’t insulted when being called fatso. This is probably worse, though, because I imagine that someone having a developmentally disabled child would be whole lot more sensitive about it than if they had an overweight child.
All that having been said, whatever the reason, I think it’s considered PC to avoid the term, and considered somewhat crude to use it.
This from Halachically Speaking:
According to some poskim the bread of a non-frum
Jew is also included in the above issur and one is forbidden to eat it. 7
7. Refer to Pischei Teshuva Y.D. 112:1, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 72:2, Darchei Teshuva 112:5, Kaf Hachaim 11,
Igros Moshe Y.D. 1:45 who are not so convinced. Refer to Orchos Rabbeinu 3:page 79:40 quoting the opinion of the
Chazon Ish. Refer to Yabea Omer Y.D. 5:10, Halichos Olom 7:pages 92-96 in depth. In regard to those who were
is lenient. Also refer to Bishul Yisroel pages 412-413.
Here is the Mahara”m Schick.
The second Teshuva is clear that he is lenient on a Mechalel Shabbos without any other factors to consider.
I still disagree.
it is clear that his intention is not to minimize the leniency of the Mechalel Shabbos
I agree, his intention was not to minimize that din; it was to be matir the bread, but it’s still clear that he doesn’t allow his sevara to be matir all pas of a mechalel Shabbos doesn’t stand on its own.
aries,
It is horrible that so many of you are looking from the other perspective as are the yeshivas.
Why is it horrible for someone to have a different opinion than you?
If the child is frummer than the parents, the parents should do what it takes to get him/her accepted – even if it means difficult lifestyle changes. But the school has a right to keep its standards, for the benefit of all its students.
I agree with real-brisker. Does no one else smell a troll? (or just sesame chicken in brown sauce)…
ItcheSrulik: jenes. You should see the options that come up when I type “ItcheSrulik”! One is itchiness, one is britches, one is Lubavitcher, and one is unprintable!
Goq,
In the address bar (that’s where it currently says http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/paging-shticky-shtickerson-the-wagon-man-needs-your-help.