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frumnotyeshivish -“Health, you have just inspired me to inform you that you get on my nerves.”
This is No Chiddush. It’s still Sinas Chinum. Lot’s of people get on my nerves too, but e/o has to work on themselves.
DY -“Right. You haven’t explained how they should be disposed of for fear of condescention, but other halachos should not.”
Because people focus on the Toful and ignore the Ikkar – when it comes to Sefira Mitzvos.
Reread my posts and then maybe you’ll be able to understand my point.
Git Meshige -“Health, Chazal instituted Halachos for a reason. Anyone that disobeys Halacha, should be frowned upon.”
I hate to have to say this, but do you know why we have these Halachos of Sefira? And don’t tell me because some people died.
rationalfrummie -“Health: a few dates cannot instantly change 20 years of life experience! If in those years one does not talk at all to girls one’s age, it can cause years of discomfort, anxiety, and social awkwardness.”
Funny you keep repeating the same thing to defend your behavior.
The truth is after a few dates most Yeshiva guys get the hang of it. Noone goes onto having years of problems like you said.
There are no reasons to talk to girls socially unless you are on a date. If s/o engages in such behavior – he is doing something Prust.
DY -“It was your idea to be mevatel mitzvos so nobody will be condescending. If you think it doesn’t make sense, I won’t argue.”
You obviously didn’t read my post -I said Sefira Mitzvos -what pertains to this topic, not the counting of the Omer – the Aveilos. But your posts to me just prove my point.
rationalfrummie -“Many guys I know that went to all-boys elementary, middle, and high schools, as well as camps now feel in their 20s very awkward around girls, since the only women they ever talked to were their mom, sisters, teachers, or occasional mixed event.”
Yes, I was like that and that’s the way it should be.
“And btw pleasure is almost always derived from conversations, unless its an argument or just hurling insults”
And that’s why it’s almost always Ossur.
“My main point is that separation is good for maintaining tznius, preventing pre-marital bia, and keeping things clean. At the same time it can also make regular conversations and scenarios awkward, as well as preventing one from having good dates.”
The awkwardness goes away after a few dates.
“I dint think these concerns are overblown because I’ve seen what happens to guys who just left the freezer, and literally never talked to girls their age before. It can feel intimidating and downright scary.”
Maybe for some, Not for most!
“Measures such as this only add to to the tension.”
So what? This isn’t any reason to be Mattir Issurim!
rationalfrummie -“Platonic, shomer conversations and friendships can exist between genders. Many non-Jews are “just friends” with people of different genders and nothing scandalous happens.”
There is no such thing as “Platonic, shomer conversations and friendships can exist between genders” amongst Jews. It does exist in some cases by certain Goyim. This is a Chumradika (Bad)Aveira by Jews!
“If boys and girls aren’t allowed to talk or “hang out”, they won’t have the skills that are necessary for shidduchim, college, and the workplace (if applicable).”
The first case that you mention it’s Ossur. The other cases are Mutter if it’s related directly to school or work.
GG yekke – Methotrexate Is NOT an Anti-inflammatory drug. It is an antimetabolite and antifolate drug, which is used in Cancer and RA as a DMARD.
yacr85 -“Health, Why me Mevatel it, why not try to encourage people to work harder on their Bein Adam Lechaveiro.”
What do you mean “work harder”? For many it’s – “start working”.
DY -“While you’re at it, be mevatel all halachos involving bein adam laMakom, for the same reason.”
Your post makes zero sense. What does Sefira have to do with all Mitzvos Bein Odom L’mokom?
If it was upto me I’d be Mevatel all the Dinim of Sefira. Why? Because in our Dor – all I find is people grabbing the Toful and Not doing the Ikkar. They use the Dinim to look down on others. The ones that listen to music or even the ones that listen Acapella are cursed out. The ones that shave or take haircuts during some days are cursed out by others who don’t keep that Minhag. At least during the three weeks people give special Shiurim about Bein Odom L’chaveiro -during this time – Nada!
This whole time of Sefira is to improve Bein Odom L’chaveiro, esp. amongst the Bnei Torah, but all I see is just the opposite!
Avi K -“Health, here is what I posted in reply:”
Definitely at one time e/o held Rav Kook to be an Odom Godol, but he kept going off more and more. R’ Gorelick zt’l was quoted as saying he heard it directly from the CC. If you look at the letter -the SIL was living in EY at the time -so quite probably the CC did say it, but the SIL had no way of knowing.
BTW, how come the YU guys picked up the Zionists’ philosophy from JB – how come they didn’t become Antizionists from R’ Gorelick zt’l?
Avi K -“HaKatan,
1. It is not only incorrect that the Chafetz Chaim said “Kook schmook””
Avi -this was posted a year ago to You:
“Tora Yid
The Rosh Yeshiva of YU, HaRav Yeruchem Gorelick ZT’L, personally was present and directly heard from the Chofetz Chaim’s own mouth say Kook Shmook derogatorily. He was at the CC with his father who was a talmid of the CC. And Rav Gorelick repeated this story publicly frequently. (Including at the Yeshiva of South Fallsburg, where his son was Rosh Yeshiva.) As did The Rov ZT’L (Rav Berel Soloveitchik ZT’L) relate this story publicly.”
Is it you forgot the post or did you never read it or do you think e/o else forgot the post and you can now brainwash more people with your Zionist propaganda? One thing I give you credit for – you never, ever change your mind, no matter how much truth by proof that has been presented to you about the Zionists!
Avi K -“Health, you are simply falsifying history.
1.There was no stealing of babies or forcing people to abandon religion. I personally know someone whjo came from Jerba at that time and he and his family went to a religious moshav.”
I’m not falsifying anything. It’s Not my fault that you’re in major denial! I quoted peoples’ testimonies – do you have any Proof that they are false? Just saying they are false – doesn’t mean that they actually are! And what kind of proof is there by just one guy who didn’t even end up in the places I was talking about?
“2.The state took in EVERYBODY”
I didn’t say “took”, I said they only Wanted Non-religious.
“3. No, the Arabs are terrorists. They wantonly attack innocent civilians. And besides, they are wrong. This is not their land.”
And so were the early Zionists who killed innocent civilians.
And it’s not the Jews land yet either – until Hashem gives it back to us.
ROB -“health- The sad part is that you are so rigid in all your opinions that you cannot even see that there may be different opinions for many things.”
This is like the pot calling the kettle black. Of course I’m rigid because I am right. I said I looked in a few Rishonim and they learn like me. But why are you so rigid? Do you even have one Rishon that says Pshat like you?
“I do not, as a rule, even look at the artscroll- as I said, I am old-fashioned and look at the rishonim and plain Pshat.”
So What?
“You are wrong in your Pshat and I showed you why. BTW- do you think that there cannot be other Peshotim than Rashi? Did you ever learn Tosfos?”
Quote the Rishon who learns like you and I’ll look it up. I really doubt you have one.
Avi K -“4. The word “atrocities” is also a gross misrepresentation to the point of hotzaat shem ra.”
No, actually forcing s/o to abandon their religion and kidnapping hundreds of babies, if not thousands, are Atrocities. How about actually reading my posts before you respond to me?
There are famous pictures of Nazis cutting off the Peyos of Jews. These became famous because the world, not just the Jews, consider this an Atrocity! The Zionists did the same thing -even though there are no pics.
“The fact of the matter is that the young, poor state took in twice the number its veteran citizens and gave them full citizenship immediately.”
They took in as many as possible to grow the State, but they only wanted Non-religious Jews!
Avi K -“3. If you call the early Zionists terrorists rather than freedom-fighters then you are obviously on the side of the British, who betrayed their mandate to establish a Jewish state, and the Arabs who murdered Jews”
Do you call Arab terrorists -“freedom fighters” also?
Anyways it wasn’t me who called them terrorists -it was the historians who did and I posted their articles here.
I’m not on anyone’s side. Two wrongs don’t make a right!
The British and Arabs only became Antisemites due to the Zionists’ ambitions. Prior to that almost e/o got along. Yes, there were incidents, but they were individualized, not the mass hate there is Now!
Avi K -” 2. Ramban says in his Sefer HaMitzvot that we are obligated in our time to establish a state.”
I’m sure he didn’t mean a State based on Kefira, like today’s Israel.
“Rambam says at the beginning of Hilchot Chanukka that we celebrate it because the Chashmonaim established a state.”
FYI -That wasn’t during Golus. This was during the second Bais Hamikdash. Nowadays we ARE in Golus!
Avi K -“1. You are correctt hat Rashi changes the girsa to “nogef”. However, I will wave mine and point out that one cannot bank one’s finger without moving it in some manner.”
Well thank you for Not arguing on Rashi. It’s a good thing because if YOU argued -then Rashi would have to retract.
And the point has nothing to do with moving only with pain to bring you to Teshuva and you get a Kappara.
ROB -There is only one way to learn the Gemmora. I only picked up the artscroll after you challenged me to make sure I was right. You really should use an Artscroll because you are learning the wrong Pshat.
Mods -that was a question to you.
akuperma -“Unless the police in your area are really underworked, they might not be thrilled at being called out to pursue a sixth grade girl (most crimes are committed by boys, not girls) who is taking a short cut to school. Police tend to think they should be out chasing murderers and muggers and rapists and terrorists”
Really is that what they think? Maybe they think this in police academy, but e/o knows once they hit the street -they spend most of the day writing tickets and eating (Donuts, of course).
You’ve been watching too much of the show “Cops”. It probably takes them weeks of ride alongs to actually film one half-hour segment of “Cops”. Most of their career is Not playing “Cops and robbers”.
Mod -“make your post shorter -73”
Actually addressing each point was only about a paragraph -would you rather me separate them into different posts like post 1, post 2, post 3, etc.?
Edit -“There is a famous picture of a Nazi cutting off a Jewish boy’s Peyos”
It wasn’t Jewish boy’s, but Jewish man’s.
emunah613 “-thank Hashem for the meds!!!!”
And you should also thank the medical/pharm community, [which of course I’m a part of ;)], for first recognizing this disorder and then developing drugs to treat it. It has only been recognized recently in medicine – maybe 30 -40 years – tops.
Unfortunately there are still many, as you see from the posts above, that still don’t recognize this as a health disorder.
apushatayid -“when they do, call the cops. till then, put up a fence that will keep them out.”
I agree to put up a fence, but you must call the cops at every incident. Why? Because they won’t do anything anyways and if they do damage something -then if you called previously they might actualy make an arrest.
I’m not a lawyer, but I think the law is like this. Let’s say they damage something -then they can be sued. The insurance of your home might not even cover criminal acts, which are not accidental. So you sue this kid -I doubt the kid has any assets -so you won’t get a dime.
But if you have called the cops numerous times and there is documentation and of course 99% of the time they’ll just take a report and not investigate or prosecute -now they are legally liable for their inaction. So instead of you getting the bill for the damage of your property -you can sue the cops, ie. the city, for the damage.
make your post shorter -73
Vogue -Ah, just call the cops – eventually the cops will get sick of you calling all the time and tell the kid to cut through s/o else’s property.
ROB -“anIsraeliYid; thank you for your cogent response to “health” on the gemoro in chulin 7B. It is abslutely clear that this is what the gemoro meant (Rabbi chaninah,actually) from the two pesukim it quotes as supporting this opinion. If you read these pesukkim (tehillim 37-23,Mishlei 20-24) ,it is crystal clear the the gemoro means exactly what you wrote: that nothing, not even the smallest matter, happens without HKBH’s will.”
How about buying an Artscroll Gemorrah and learning from it? Whoever teaches you Gemmorah right now doesn’t know how to learn Poshut Pshat.
anIsraeliYid -“Health – stub one’s toe, bend a finger – what’s the difference? The point of the Gemara is that even the most minor of movements is the Ratzon of HKBH. It’s a stretch to read that Gemara as saying that only punishments are from Him. The reference to stubbing a toe is more logically read as including something as minor as stubbing a toe rather than exluding non-punishment effects.”
Did e/o here learn in the same MO Yeshiva or is when one Zionist says something e/o comes to his defense? Did you even look up the Gemorrah before you posted your Pshat? If you would have looked it up -the way I said is Pshat is Not in the least debatable. All the Reshonim (the ones I saw) learn the Pshat that it means only some sort of pain. There no reason to pick stubbing your toe if it means any action. The Gemmorah could have written scratching your head or something similar that people do more often. This has nothing to do with everything comes from Hashem. That Gemmorah is elsewhere and says “Everything comes from Heaven except fear of Heaven and some say except cold and hot.”
“Re: your anti-Zionist posts – Have you ever even opened any of the seforim of Rabbonim who supported Zionism? You keep repeating that it’s Kefira and Avoda Zara, but have not given on-point responses when others have stated why they believe otherwise. I agree that there are Shitos that disagree with Zionism, and have learned both sides of the issue before reaching my own conclusions – but I made sure that I had the knowledge to make an informed decission. What about you?”
Listen, I’ve read the Zionist Shittos here umteen times over the years posted by the Zionists here. And I’ve also posted many times -noone who held you can make a Medina before Moshiach from those Gedolim would ever agree to this Medina because these Zionists made the State based on their Kefira of Hashem.
Not just this but the early Zionists were terrorists and committed atrocities against Sefardi Jews. So are you really sure you made an informed decision or perhaps you were brainwashed by the Zionists?
benignuman – Neither does repeating the same lies over and over again that have been proven as lies, eg. “The vast majority of the gedolim said that there should be a Medina.”
ROB -“You will continue playing up an incident that may or may not have happened, and clearly was -at worst- an evil thing made by some very misguided individuals. It has absolutely no connection with the establishment of the medinah. Certainly, any person engaged in kidnapping babies should be condemned and punished but it has no connection whatsoever with the medinah or even Zionism.”
Again you deny the testimony. Again you deny the Israeli Gov’s responsibility. You obviously missed this paragragh from above:
“Through extensive research, and interviews with dozens of families, activists and journalists, I discovered that while the Israeli government and the public have tried to forget and silence this Affair, Yemenite families continue to suffer from their terrible loss.”
And they will never punish the guilty because this was State-sponsored Evil!
“As far as your general efforts, good luck on persuading the six million jews in israel that the medinah is an evil thing.”
First of all -lots of them aren’t Zionists -some have Charedi philosophy and some are like Western Goyim.
Second of all, I don’t have to convince anybody of anything.
“One last remark- I find your rantings about all this being like the nazis and Holocaust deniers disgusting.You truly have no shame and you have no idea what the Nazis did to the Jews of Europe.”
I know what Nazi deniers are, just like I know what deniers of the atrocities that Zionists in the name of the Medina are!
Anyone who denies any atrocity, whether some are worse than others, like the Holocaust is much worse, is No different than Holocaust deniers!
Jews here that are Pro-zionism have denied terrorism on the part of early Zionists and now are denying the atrocities perpertrated against Sefardim by their beloved Medina!
truthsharer -“One thing is certain, yeshivos need to start teaching history of Zionism.”
Actually most Yeshivos know what Zionism is (Kefira, AZ, etc.). It’s time for us to “share the truth” with the MO!
Avi K -“Health, actually it meas “a person does not move a finger”. “Nokef” is related to “lehakif”, which means “to circumvent” in the sense of “to circumvent the world” – to travel around it.”
You don’t know what the word means -Rashi translates it Nogef -bang. But of course you know better than Rashi. Does all the MO yeshivos teach this Gemorrah not acc. to what it means?
“In any case, it is clear that teh Medina is a beracha. The vast majority of the gedolim said so.”
If you would open your eyes and read the Antizionist posts here -you’d know the vast Majority of Gedolim were against the Medina.
We even at one time listed all the Gedolim against the Medina and it vastly outweighed all the Gedolim Pro-Medina. Just because you keep repeating the same lie over and over again, doesn’t make it true. I actually feel bad for guys like you because even when presented with truth – we listed the numbers/names previously -you can’t believe it because you are so brainwashed. You are the classic definition of s/o brainwashed and it seems so many others are just like you when it comes to Zionism.
yichusdik -“Thanks Health. I needed a laugh this morning.”
Oh, I laugh everyday at the Zionist propaganda and lies that fools believe!
It’s unfortunate that the only ones who aren’t scared to spill the beans on the Zionists are either the far left or right. But what they printed was taken from the victims and others who testified what occured then. Yes, most Jews believe in this Zionist Idol, but they are the ones in the dream world. If you have evidence that all this testimony is a fabrication -then present it. Obviously you don’t – otherwise you would have posted it already. Maybe you can fool other Zionists like yourself, but people like me who make decisions based on facts and testimony aren’t fooled by your propaganda and lies.
ROB -“health- see posting from yichusdik.
I think you are grasping at the proverbial straws. No one is denying that certain abuses were done to yemenite Jews, including,possibly, the taking of some babies.”
Certain abuses? Some babies? Hundreds, if not thousands? And you call this proverbial straws?
“To make this into an international incident when it is clear that it was the work of some misguided individuals is grasping at straws.”
You’re right – the religious genocide and kidnapping of babies of Jews from Arab lands isn’t so bad. This is exactly what Holocaust deniers do. They say the few Jews killed in Europe by the Nazis isn’t so bad.
“And, again, what does Zionism or the establishemnt of the medinah have to do with this?”
I’m just showing you how your beloved Zionists acted during the beginning of the Medina, but of course this is a Brocha from Hashem and the Zionists aren’t a bunch of Reshoyim.
rabbiofberlin -“health- the gemoro is in chulin 7B :”ein odom nokef etsbu-oi milmatoh elo im kein machrizim olov milmaloh” . Rashi mentions that the word means “to hit”. But it does not deal with punishment at all. It means that everything -even a small matter of hitting one’s finger’- is directed from the heavens. You see that from the pesukim from where the gemoro learns it. From tehillim (37): ” MeHashem mitsadei gever konnenu” And, if you look at anyone who discusses this, it is clear that we are talking about events ,not punishments.”
I’m sorry that you keep changing the Poshut Pshat to be right. The Gemorrah isn’t talking about any event, but only ones where you have pain. When you get pain in doing something it’s to remind you to do Teshuva and it’s also a Kappara. This is the way e/o learns the Gemorrah, even Artscroll.
And of course the Medina was a great thing and also the Shmadding of the Sefardim and stealing their babies – these were all Brochos from Hashem via the Medina.
rabbiofberlin -“health- You are quoting a professor who wrote a book on this and herself writes ( from the review) : “still unresolved….alleged kidnappings…”
Something may have happened then and there are conflicting reports what really happened.”
Your denial is outrageous – because of some review that used the word “alleged”. Did you even read any of it? Do you think all these people are just making up stories? Yes, this is exactly what you hear from Holocaust revisionists.
“I don’t see what the establishment of the medinas has to do with this.”
Well maybe read everything I wrote and you’ll see what these Zionists who started the Medina are all about.
“These were individual decisions taken by some overzealous people.”
No, these were Israeli Gov. workers on a mission, probably from higher ups. And this is as good of an excuse as the Nazis claiming -they were just following orders.
“The main theme of this Professor’s book actually has to do with the discrimination of the so-called “Oriental jews”.”
Who cares – it’s irrevelant?
“Any criticism from your corner is quite rich- seeing that the chareidi world in Israel is routinely discrimanating against sefardim (see Beth Shemesh). Spare me the crocodile tears.”
Yes, you are quite right; or are you delusional? Not letting a handful of kids in Yeshiva is the same as kidnapping babies and the parents never seeing them again. And if you read above -this was hundreds of babies, if not thousands.
ROB -“To answer your assertions- first, health. If I remember correct, your traslation of that maamar chazal (about the finger not doing anything without the direction of heaven) is not correct and it clearly deals with actions, not punishments.”
I don’t understand you -I just told you – you are wrong and you say No without even looking it up. Is it possible that you never think you are wrong -no matter what proof there is against you?
Well I did just look it up in Chulin.
“‘ein odom kofef ezbah ele im ken machrizim olov”
It doesn’t even say your quote. It says “Nokef”. Rashi translates this to mean “Nogef”. Artscroll translates “A person does not stub his toe down below”. So it’s clearly talking about punishment.
“But the main thing is simple.As discussed by many others on this thread, bechirah is individual but does not history make. HKBH dictates history.”
Do you have any proof for this?
“If -chas vecholilo- the establishments of the medinah (note ,I do not excuse the secularism of Zionism) is an aveirah, then why is it thriving? The ‘maaseh egel” brought immediate retribution! To continue saying that the medinah is evil and,although it is thriving now, that sometime in the far distant future, it will (chas vecholilo) be destroyed is just pure sophistry. You can continue doing this forever and never be contradicted because you will always say: just wait till next year!. Indeed, I have said many times that history will decide who is right. If the satmarer rebbe zz’l is (C”V) right, then the medinah will not endure. If, by contrast, we are right, then we will thrive. I, for one, believe that HKBH brought us a brocho.”
Didn’t you learn Parshas Noach -he warned the people for over a hundred years and they never believed him? The Medina isn’t even close to a hundred yet and there are hundreds, if not thousands that share my beliefs about the Medina.
ROB =”health- let’s differentiate truth from propaganda.”
The propaganda is from the Zionists and the truth is from what I posted.
“R’Moshe Shconfeld z’l was a politician who bent the truth as much as any politician. I don’t know what exactly happened but I think that the inquiry mentioned by DaMoshe is at least as authoritative as Moshe Shonfeld’s article.”
This is a simple lie.
“DaMoshe -Moshe Shonfeld’s books were published by Neturei Karta. I don’t believe anything put out by that terrible group. Let Shonfeld preach his lies to Iran and the Palestinians, his true friends.”
You people were just Oiver Tofalnu Sheker, but it’s Not surpising because I attacked your Zionist idol. This is why you refuse to acknowlege the truth of the Evil Zionists.
Here is an article that confirms what I posted above, but I’m sure she must be NK. You two are No different than any Holocaust revisionist!
I didn’t quote the whole article, but this is enough:
“Shoshana Madmoni-Gerber
Source: leftcurve.org
[1]
(Nurse Ruja Kuchinski, 1996)
Through extensive research, and interviews with dozens of families, activists and journalists, I discovered that while the Israeli government and the public have tried to forget and silence this Affair, Yemenite families continue to suffer from their terrible loss.
In this essay, I argue that public efforts to silence and deny this affair contribute to the ongoing intra-Jewish rift and racism in Israeli society today. Moreover, the question of if and how this story will be remembered in the public sphere will strongly influence the identity formation of Yemenite and Mizrahi children of future generations.
What is the Yemenite Babies Affair?
During the mass immigration to Israel from 1948 to the early 1950s, hundreds if not thousands [2] [4] were in better condition than the tents and tin structures that sheltered the parents. Babies were usually taken from the baby houses without parental knowledge or consent. Parents who were present and refused consent reported that camp authorities forcefully took their children from them, even acting violently.[4]
1. The nurse was audio taped by Avner Farhi, whose sister was kidnapped from Ein-Shemer Camp in 1950.
OOmis – sorry to inform you, but when an act of terror is committed – this is a terrorist attack.
We don’t know, as of yet, who committed this terrorist act.
Da Moshe -Thanks for your Zionist propaganda that is rewriting history, but here is the truth:
“The Story of the Yemenite Jewish Community 1948-1952
excerpt from Genocide in the Holy Land by Rabbi Moshe Schonfeld
These events were even born out by the report of the Commission appointed by the Zionist government to investigate the conditions in the camps after protests by religious elements. After visiting all the camps and listening to 181 witnesses, this Commission officially reported that:
1.Anti-religious prejudices and acts were openly initiated by camp officials and counselors.
3.Peyos (sidelocks) of religious Yemenite children were systematically cut off, and were clearly untended as an anti- religious act.
4.Some camps allowed a systematic abuse of religion. Religious children were weaned away from their religion, and parents were intimidated into accepting a non-religious education for their children.
5.Children in UJA supported camps were told that in Israel there was no Sabbath as in the Diaspora, that there is no G-d, and that all religious observances are rubbish.
Religious Jews who sought access to these camps to assist the Yemenites were refused entry or discriminated against by the Zionist overseers. Sanctions were imposed against those who tried to promote religious studies in the camps, children who studied Torah and their parents! The non-religious staff flaunted their disregard for religion in front of the pious Yemenites and encouraged dancing and other social activities between boys and girls, something thoroughly forbidden by Judaism.
As is typical of their practice against their Jewish opponents everywhere, the Zionists resorted to threats, penalties, intimidation and strong-arm methods. Even the religious Zionist newspaper Hatsofeh reported on December 12, 1955 that in the settlement of Achuzam,
Yemenite babies were taken from their parents
on the pretext of giving them medical attention.The Zionists undertook a systematic campaign throughout the locations where they settled Yemenite Jews to discourage them from remaining loyal to Judaism in favor of the godless bliss of the Zionist Paradise. It is widely known, and investigations in the Zionist state itself confirmed, that the Zionists even took away newborn babies to give them to childless couples, and told the natural parents that the children had died of illness.
Treatment similar to that experienced by the Yemenite Jews was experienced by Jews from Morocco, Iraq, Tunisia and Libya.”
Charles Snort -“I think ‘terrorist attack’ implies that the attack had political motives rather than personal or delusional motives.”
You’re so influenced by liberalism -you conjure up definitions. Even today the Pres just called it terrorism, but said he doen’t know if it’s homegrown or foreign. Perhaps yesterday when he made his comments he didn’t know the cause of the explosion. It’s amazing to me how Frum Jews, not just you, can be more liberal than even one of the most Liberal presidents ever.
DY – I think Pitaleh in Lakewood has it.
ROB -“First-your quote from the gemoro says nothing about historical events. It only deals with the FEELINGS of a jew- and it has nothing to do with what HAPPENS to a jew. As a matter of fact ,the other gemoro (that you did not quote)says ‘ein odom kofef ezbah ele im ken machrizim olov min hashomayim”- a person does not bend his finger unless it is decreed from heaven. So much for you saying that things happen without HKBH’s will.”
Either you don’t know what this means or your twisting it on purpose. It translates to “bangs a finger”, in other words even a miniscule amount of punishment. This in No way takes away a person’s Bechira to good or evil or even a group like the Zionist group to make a Medina. Of course unless you want to argue that the creation of the Medina is a punishment from Hashem and a way to prolong the Golus. But it seems from your post that you think the Medina is some sort of Brocha. But now that you made me think of the Medina in this light -perhaps it’s true -the creation of the Medina is nothing but a terrible Onesh.
“As far as the medinah- you are big into pretzel-land- you say that it was established without HKBH’s will because people are allowed to make aveirus (as if is an aveirah to establish a medinah) but the “zechusim’ keep it going. Well, maybe they continue to have zechusim forever! You and people who espouse your view will continue saying that- just around the corner!just around the corner!- is the destruction of the medinah, chas vesholom. Well, that corner will be there for the rest of our lives and -of course- will never be turned because HKBH does want the medinah with all its failings!”
You never know, but Ain Somechim Al Hanais. With the new Israeli Gov. losing Zecusim by the minute esp. the Zecus of Torah, e/o should be very worried that we really haven’t seen what Chevley Moshiach really means. I just think you’re putting your head in the sand due to your Negious of your Zionist beliefs!
rabbiofberlin -“to hakatan and health and kanoi next door: what you wrote about history and HKBH’s will comes very close to real kefirah.”
When people get flustered they come up with all sorts of denigrations against who they disagree with. In this case, I’ll just assume it’s your lack of Torah knowledge and therfore you decided to label me a Kofer or close to one. I’ll just explain my position quickly, I’m not going to go off on a tangent and start arguing and defending myself against your absurd accusations.
I’m going to quote a Gemorrah -I’m not going to even touch the Rambam because obviously the Rambam has to agree to the Gemorrah.
The Gemorrah says “Hakol B’dey Shomayim Chutz Meyiras Shomayim”.
“Everything is ordained from Heaven except fear of Heaven.” Meaning you can do what you please when it comes to doing Mitzvos or Aveiros. Hashem, IMHO, never decreed let there be a State of Israel, what instead happenned was a bunch of “real” Kofrim got together and made a State. The fact that Hashem let this happen was because he lets people do Aveiros. The fact that he hasn’t destroyed it -is because even the Freye Yidden have Zecusim. Up until now they have had the Zecusim of not forcing the Charedim into the army and somewhat supporting them. The current Israeli Gov., in the form of Lapid and Bennett, don’t even have as much sense as Ben Gurion. Even Ben Gurion understood that the Non-religious need some Zecusim to have protection against their destruction.
Ah, all the libs here protecting their liberal Pres. He hasn’t even called this terrorism, which it is, whether it’s homegrown or foreign. Who is he scared of? And when he does find the culprit of this terrorism – he won’t do a thing – if it’s a foreign entity. Just like his buddy Clinton didn’t do anything when we were repeatedly attacked. All this country knows is liberalism and appeasement. If Bush wouldn’t have retaliated from the attack of 9/11 these incidents would be a daily occurance in the US.