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mdd -“KND, you did not answer anything of substance — you said it’s a zechus. Exactly, but you can’t push a zechus on somebody unwilling to get it.”
You and all the Zionists here are such hypocrites – it’s astounding!
Acc. to you it’s a Mitzva (Zecus) to go to the army. You can’t push a Zecus on somebody unwilling to get it. So why are they forcing the draft on the Charedim?
Also, e/o knows that learning Torah protects (or at least the Frum Jews should know) the Jews from harm – so how come the “religious” Zionists aren’t protesting this Gov. policies?
Don’t they want the extra protection for themselves and their families that live in Israel? Or are they really like the Conservatives & Reform and pick and choose what part of the Torah to keep? Just to be PC and go along with the current Gov., even though, if you believe in the Torah, this Israeli Gov. is committing Suicide.
It’s funny how you put words in our mouthes and then say we’re wrong. Noone thinks the arabs are our brothers except for some leftist Jews and a few NK. For the umpteenth time the Zionists have made the hatred much, much worse and caused tons of bloodshed, much more than ever was under the British and Turks.
Denial is Not just a river in Egypt.
If you’re Not a Zionist, why are you spouting their Propaganda?
147 -“If defying all the Gedolei haDor isn’t Kefira:- What is Kefira?”
Funny the Zionists here keep saying the “Gedolim” said vote for Bennett, not for the religious parties.
Avi K -“1. The State is good because it is a mitzva (Ramban Sefer HaMitzvot). It was obviously brought about by Hashem and we see that it is a leap forward in the unfolding Geula.”
Do you think the Ramban was talking about making a State based on Kefira? How you can keep repeating the same nonsensical Shtus over and over again is beyond me!
“2. The riots of 5709 were caused by Arab nationalism and the lack of response of British security forces.”
Yes, e/o knows history and Muslims like all Goyim hate the Yidden. What you fail to understand is by creating the Medina the Zionists multiplied the Muslim/Arab hatred 100-fold.
“3. It is a great mitzva to go into the IDF. Many gedolim say so and the pillars of Halacha such as Rambam say so.”
The Gedolim that said so were mistaken. Most Gedolim hold it’s a big Aveira to go to the Army (IDF). Do you know what the Torah says about Koach V’ozem Yodi Osoh Ess Hachayil Hazeh?
You seem to be well versed in Torah that applies to Yishuv Haaretz -how about broadening your horizons and learning other parts? If you think the more soldiers the better -this is Koach V’otzem etc. And R’ Shach zt’l said the war is fought on two fronts the Bais Medrash and the army front. Tell me what would happen in a war if one country only decided to fight on one front? They probably would lose the war. This is the policy of Lapid & Bennett. So the only reason the MO aren’t shouting along with the Charedim – it must be that they agree with their policy of Koach V’otzem Yodi etc. and you don’t need guys learning full time to protect Klal Yisroel.
ROB -“Look- for individuals there is indeed bechira- for good or for bad. However, for HISTORY, there is no such thing as bechira.”
I guess you know more than most of the Gedolim from 60 years ago -you’d think that they would know if making a Medina was Rozon Hashem, but yet Most of them were vehemetly against creating a Medina.
charliehall -“In another thread I pointed out at least three gedolim who disagreed with that statement: Rabbi Shlomo Goren z’tz’l, Rabbi Shaul Yisraeli z’tz’l, and Rabbi Shlomo Aviner shlita. There are probably others as well.”
And there are many more Gedolim who disagree with this philosophy.
“In any case, without the IDF, there would likely be no Jews in Eretz Yisrael or anywhere else in the Middle East today, as the Arab rodfim would run all over us and kill us all.”
This might be true nowadays, but they wouldn’t have needed an army if they didn’t create a Medina.
It’s like the arsonists who say -you see we need the FD, but without the arsonists who says you’d have needed the FD in the first place?
Avi K -“Health,
1. The tiny yishuv could not possibly have withstood the Arabs in 5708 and 5727 or take in double it’s size in ten years without Hashem’s help.We will accept whomever He sends as shelichim (Me’ila 17a).”
B’derech Sh’odom Rozeh Moleichim Oso! Even Aveiros!
“2. A melech is not needed for a milchemet mitzva. This is proven by the fact that various judges conducted wars even before they became judges.”
It was all done by Nevuah. This was done against Hashem’s will.
“Anyway, according to Rav Kook any leader accepted by the people has the din of melech for these matters. This is also the mashmaut of the Netziv on the mitzva of appointing a king.In any case, all go into the army in a milchemet mitzva (Rambam Hilchot Melachim 7:4). The leader (whatever his technical title is) compels them if necessary (ibid 4:2).”
There is no Mitzva, but an Aveira to go to the IDF. This doesn’t have a Din of Milchemes Mitzva, no matter how many years you’ve been posting the same thing. And almost all the Gedolim disagreed with R’ Kook. Do you believe in Rov? If you add up all the Gedolim on the Anti-Medina side & all the ones Pro-Medina -you’ll find Most are against the Medina!
ROB -“AND medinas Yisroel came into being by the will of HKBH. That is the only jewish aspect-anything else brings into question fundamental facts of emunah.”
Hashem lets it -it’s called Bechira -this doesn’t mean he wants it. I don’t understand why you believe Hashem wanted people to make a Medina based on Kefira? If this is what Hashem wanted why Not just bring Moshiach already? Yeah, I know you believe this is the beginning, but how much of a time span between the beginning and the end? I believe if this was the beginning -the end would have happenned by now!
Torah613Torah -“Does Lakewood have an eruv?”
Some/lots of neighborhoods do.
writersoul -“Remember, that’s your opinion, which is not shared by that many people, at least not the people who matter in Middle East policy.
It’s not a shtuch, per se, it’s just a fact.”
You’re so blinded with your hatred to Antizionists you missed my point. My point wasn’t reiterating what I’ve said a thousand times before that it should be given to Turkey, my point was if the ideology of Zionism is dead -why are they still hanging onto the State? Now I understand the “religious” Zionists -somehow they were Krummed up that having a State before Moshiach is a Mitzvah, but why are the Non-religious still in Israel – if there is no more Zionist ideology? Let them all pack up and move to the US or anywhere that will take them?
Avi K -“Health, we have of State of Israel because Hashem wants us to have a state.”
This is one of your strangest comments ever. Because Hashem gives Bechira -that means it’s his will? If s/o eats pig and is Mechallel Shabbos -this is Hashem’s will? If a group of Kofrim happen to start a State in Israel instead of Uganda -this makes it Hashem’s will?
“As for bnei Tora, they are davka the first who should go into the army. They are the hard core who even go to a milchemet reshut (Sota 44a).”
When there is a Melech in EY Al Pi Din, then the Bnei Torah will go out to fight. Also, just the picture of these losers like Lapid & Bennett as kings has me ROTL!
DY -“Do we know for a fact that an open sore causes the transmission of HSV? Maybe we do; I don’t know, I’m merely asking.”
Well I answered previously -you don’t even have to research it yourself, even though it wouldn’t be too hard considering you’re on the net, -I brought you the answer already.
They have proven time and again -the HSV virus is transmitted by direct contact to s/o’s mouth even if they don’t have any sores at the time. What I don’t understand -well actually I do -I posted this before -the Frum community since they lack in education -all of a sudden when it comes to Milah with MBP -they can’t believe it could transmit disease.
The question the Frum community should be asking is why we aren’t forcing every Mohel to be tested for HSV? And even if positive they can take medications if they want to remain a Mohel that does MBP!
The Kanoi Next Door -“The much larger issue is the fact the government, led by Nanny Bloomberg of soda size limit fame, is attempting to dictate how we can and cannot observe our Religion.”
And even a bigger issue is that the Frum community lets MBP be done by Mohelim w/o even having mandatory testing on them for HSV.
Avi K -“Does this mean that they want more non-learners out of the yeshivot and kollelim and into the army and work force?”
These Gedolim are Not obsessed with a few guys who don’t belong in Yeshiva. The more pressing problem is the Israeli Gov. forcing the learning guys out of Yeshiva.
gefen -“Did anyone every hear of kosherdietplans.com?”
The thing with the other prepared diets is that you can only get the food within their delivery route. With Start Fresh aka -kosherdietplans.com they don’t give you the food but they tell you exactly what to make to eat. This might solve your prob, even if you live in the north pole.
writersoul -“HaKatan: The notion of Zionism to which most frum people object, the Zionism from Herzl to Ben Gurion, is largely extinct now. The belief as it was thought of by Israel’s original settlers is pretty much dead- The socialism that birthed Zionism is dead, which means that most of the MO (and not) Jews who celebrate Israel do not come under the label of “Zionist” that you revile so much.”
My question to you is -so how come they still have a State of Israel -they should have given the land to Turkey a long time ago?
And I agree it’s dead, but what’s in its’ place is much worse.
The current Israeli Gov. run by the likes of Lapid & the MO is much worse than the Gov. that was run by Ben Gurion. At least the latter had the sense to exempt Bnei Torah from the draft!
Lakewood vs Brooklyn –
Almost any Frum community is better than these two places. (:0
Imaofthree -“ShalomToYou: Ask the shaddchan for a picture of the girl. If she looks nice, give it a try.”
Yes, I agree. And if she looks fat -tell the Shadchan she looks too fat for me.
S/o just told me a story about 50 y.o. woman – never married – who won’t go out with any fat guy. And I said I don’t hardly know any middle age guy who doesn’t have a belly.
Now all the posters who cursed out the OP – what do you say about this girl? I have a feeling now that the shoe is on the other foot -you will be singing a different tune.
Nechomah -“I had no family who could be with me and my husband was not going to be in the room under any circumstances once things really got going.”
The husband is allowed to be in the room upto delivery and during delivery he can be behind a curtain in the room.
Bored214 -“100% worth getting one. There are hospitals where the midwives will not present all the time if they are very busy and will spend their time going from room to room and will sometimes leave the woman on her own. I know someone who’s midwife went out the room thinking she still had time to go, the baby came out and had the cord wrapped around it’s neck and because she was on her own and it wasnt removed immediately on delivery the baby suffered from lack of oxygen and is now severely brain damaged.”
I’m not going to quote your whole post, but I think your attitude is extremely Poor! I happen to agree to one thing -having a Doula is a nice thing. It’s not 100% necessary, but it’s nice to have one. Can e/o afford one? -Probably not.
And your two cases of where a Doula would have or did make a difference are by far Not the norm. Esp. in the case I quoted -the midwife or Doc or PA, doesn’t have to be in the room with you all the time -you aren’t paying them that much for that. It seems that it was the nurse that was negligent, because they are the ones who are constantly with the pt., even though they go in and out -noone has to be there every single second, not even a doula.
Btw, did these two cases occur in countries where they have Socialized medicine?
2scents -“On a side note, doulas can get in the way especially if the delivery happens at home the doulas think that they are as qualified as the medics and usually act nastily towards the medics and EMTs. I have experienced this more than once.”
And actually some of them do know more than EMS -some have gone through childbirth training. This is another reason “Ezras Noshim” org. makes sense.
frumnotyeshivish -“(As an aside, and for like the fourth time we’ve been in such a dialogue, I DON’T SMOKE.)”
Ok, so you don’t smoke – so why are you constantly defending smokers? Does your wife, parents or other relatives smoke?
“Brainwashed or not, I must address one thing you’re saying:
1. Why do you think I control and manipulate others?
2. Even if I do (I try not to btw), why is it hypocritical? Doing what you hate done to yourself to others is wrong, but not inherently dishonest.”
Listen, the subject of smoking is a tangent -your hypocrisy is a tangent on a tangent -so I’m not going to get into it with you.
But I’ll tell you, the world, not just me, considers “Do as I say, not as I do”, as hypocrisy.
You still haven’t answered any of my points. From above:
“”That may have once been true. Nowadays, the anti-tobacco people rule the world from the shadows.”
Really how so?
“If you don’t believe me, just see how they already got so many here (especially “Health,” he’s way gone).”
You mean because I voice my opinion against smoking?
Funny, if there was a shred of truth in what you are saying then thousands of youth wouldn’t start smoking every year.”
Why do you insist that I’ve been brainwashed?
frumnotyeshivish -“That may have once been true. Nowadays, the anti-tobacco people rule the world from the shadows.”
Really how so?
“If you don’t believe me, just see how they already got so many here (especially “Health,” he’s way gone).”
You mean because I voice my opinion against smoking?
Funny, if there was a shred of truth in what you are saying then thousands of youth wouldn’t start smoking every year.
What bothers you is that the anti-smokers are gaining in this country. Once upon a time, we had no voice. In BMG, smoking was once allowed in the Bais Medrash, when I was there it was allowed in the building, including the library. Nowadays it’s supposedly not allowed in any building.
“I hate being manipulated by other people. Always.”
Hypocrisy at its’ finest. You can control and manipulate others, but if s/o tries to do it to you -then this gets your goat.
You seem the type that thinks you can smoke anywhere, no matter who it bothers. If you want to kill yourself that’s fine by me, but who gave you the right to kill others?!?
PBA -“He said gedolim. But Tendler is not even a rabbonim–he is a gadol’s son in law. A gadol who is certainly rolling in his grave to see the mesirah that his son in law is involved in.”
I don’t care that he said Gedolim. E/o thinks their Rov is a Godol. Also R’ Tendler might Not be your Rov or mine, but he is s/o’s Rov and he has the official qualifications to be a Rabbi. Just because you and me (in this case) don’t agree with him doesn’t give you the right to be Mevatel him.
PBA -“But it doesn’t totally solve the problem.
See, something like 90% of people are infected with this virus. But it goes dormant and is not contagious except when you have active sores. So the father is just as likely to have the open sores.”
Like I was saying people in the Frum community need education about this. You have posted on this topic a lot, but you don’t even know the basics. Around 60 -90% of the pop is infected with HSV 1 and it is Always contagious, esp. when there is a sore, but even when not.
Joe -“This isn’t the case. The Gedolim who don’t hold MBP is required are fully behind the Gedolim who do hold it is required in this fight against the government and freie who want to regulate or ban it.”
Not all the Rabbonim -Rabbi Tendler is pushing the Gov. to do more. What I don’t understand is why aren’t these Rabbonim concerned about how to make MBP safe for e/o? They seem only to care about the Gov. regulating MBP. The Gov. got involved because noone was taking this issue seriously -“B’mokom Shein Ish etc.”
Torah613Torah -“Vogue, for your convenience, and our edification, I paste below a list of skills spies use (lightly edited for YWN)”
Cut the James Bond stuff -most employees of the CIA or NSA have no such qualifications. The guy I knew who made his way up the NSA was just a very smart guy who became a wiz in computers and decoding programs.
Sam2 -“PBA: If it can be proven (and I’m not saying it has, but if it can) that requiring by mouth is a Sakanas Nefashos for these babies, then wouldn’t you agree that we don’t have to accord any respect to those who do it? That we should stop them from putting their children in danger?”
What would have to be proven that it’s a Sofek, but right now I think the criteria of the proof would be at Sfak Sfaka. I don’t think it’s Ossur to do MBP, but why not work out a solution where No babies or almost No babies will get sick? And I posted the solution above.
PBA -“Health: Thank you for the medical advice. I hope you will defer to the relevant poskim of the relevant communities as regards the psak.
I’m serious: You talk of educating “communities”. If you think your information is relevant, why not just address it to their poskim. Haga atzmecha: If your posek, after hearing your info, told you to do it–wouldn’t you do it? So why does the community need the info? Why would they listen to you at all?”
They shouldn’t listen to me as opposed to their Rabbonim or even if they should they probably wouldn’t. And I would listen to my Rov over my opinion right now, but if I thought this was a very high risk of the baby catching the disease I wouldn’t listen, but then again I highly doubt my Rov would argue with me when it comes to anything medical.
So the difference is when it comes to me taking a risk alone (I’yH I’ll get remarried and have more boys and girls), as opposed to what should be public Jewish policy. No, my Rov is Not one of those. But the ones that do make public policies -you know the Kol Koray types, why don’t they ask medical advice about MBP? They actually had some Rabbonim that came out with some Kol Koray about this, but as far as I know they only got input from the Mohalim and possibly one Doc, which noone that I know of agrees with in the medical community.
Mammele -“The other thread mentioned the name as Shpringer, so what’s going on?”
No, this thread is correct. The other thread s/o got confused because of more than one Levaya in Crown Heights.
It’s funny R’ Springer Z’tl – I knew personally and this I. Schier z’l I knew from the CR -we had similar outlooks in certain topics.
kingdavid -The only ones that have to be educated is the community, the Mohalim & the Rabbonim.
I’m not against MBP, but the Mohel either has to be HSV-neg or not work in the field of MBP or take Antivirals to prevent transmitting HSV. Whether he’d have to take the drugs all the time would depend on the freq that he is called to do Brissim.
Vogue -“I just keep on defaulting to looking at cia and fbi websites when I feel like nothing else would suit me. It would be sooooo cool.”
This is your imagination running wild. Anything more than a simple nobody is very stressful. The guy I knew with the NSA had an extremely stressful life because of all the important materials that he was responsible for. Real life in these agencies, if you could even get anywhere that dealt with anything important, is Not like James Bond in the movies.
Vogue – I heard of s/o who worked for the NSA and traveled the world as an attache to the diplomatic service. Yea, he was Frum.
But his name is a Secret, although I know it, but I don’t know his number – perhaps it was 007? He actually made it up pretty high before he retired.
Many in the Frum communities in Balto. & Washington are federal employees. Actually, the Fed Gov. is more accommodating to religion than the private sector.
The way you started this topic it sounds like you have a big imagination.
sm29 -“when it would be better to give them good nutrition, sleep and exercise”
Yea, this is nice. But the only problem with your solution is that it doesn’t work Most of the time.
Vogue -“I didn’t hesitate to start looking at schools, anyone know of good Jewish colleges in brooklyn that don’t charge a ton of money,”
Part time in Touro should Not be that costly and you could be in a girls only class.
Torah613Torah -“A personal note to Health:
I hope you won’t get too upset at me for saying this, but you are smart enough and insightful enough that I hope you can just take it as my personal opinion and not a criticism.”
What is the difference between a personal opinion that is negative and criticism????
“Sometimes it seems to me that you like to have the last word in an argument. Most people will post agreement comments half the time, and disagreement comments the other half, but I sometimes feel like all of your posts are disagreement comments. In addition, I sometimes feel that your arguments would be stronger if you allowed them to speak for themselves, rather than re-arguing every single little point that you disagree with until the other person is tired out.”
Read my last post to Sharp and you’ll understand why I like to have the last word. It isn’t just for my ego -it’s also to benefit others.
“You are obviously very smart and intelligent, and accustomed to being right most of the time in real life.”
Actually I’m not accustomed to being right most of the time in real life -I don’t have that power, but it’s funny how you think you can analyze me by my posts, even though you don’t know me IRL.
“I don’t know if you’re aware that online this comes across in a way that is unpleasant for others to read.
Again, I hope you don’t mind my saying this. I think you are very well-educated and have a lot to share with us, and I am sure that many people agree, even those who disagree with you. I don’t want to discourage you from posting your arguments.”
It’s alright, even if that was your goal to stop me from posting, which I’ve had posters like that in the past, I wouldn’t stop. Who knows – maybe I’m addicted or maybe I’m bored or maybe something else, but I don’t quit that easily.
sharp -“Hi, Health. I am saying it again because I believe it, not because I want you to believe it. I’m actually not trying to convince you, (nor would I brainwash you..) but I maintain that these medications are over prescribed, often don’t work and that ADHD is often misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all.
And last but not least, a patient that has underlying issues can definitely benefit from therapy and see if it works before letting themselves be convinced that they MUST take medication.
You’re entitled to your own opinion, of course, but this is the way I see it. You’re welcome to see it differently, though.”
Let me explain you something, I almost never post to try to convince the person I’m arguing with to make an about face. This almost never happens either here or IRL. The reason I’m going to again say nothing you posted has any truth to it is because I don’t want people having this issue to think that your posts are legitimate. You have no proof for anything you wrote. But feel free to have any opinion you want. A lot of people in the Frum community believe all sorts of things esp. in the area of medicine and I have had many a discussion about some of these opinions here in the CR.
SM -“Or the aleve- does aleve help fever too?”
Yep.
sw33t -“Health: Like I orginally said, I think that the main difference between college brainwashing and Jewish school brain washing is that in college I had the ability and the CHOICE to just write what the prof wanted to hear and move on with my life. If I disagreed with what they said- it’s because I have a different opinion. In Jewish schools I often felt like if i disagreed with what a teacher was saying that meant there was something “differnt”, “bad”, or “wrong” with me.”
And what you didn’t understand is the differences that I wrote. In college most people are Not there to take on the views of the Prof -so they have no business throwing them at you.
In BY the purpose is to take on their views or Hashkofas, otherwise you don’t belong there. Noone that I know was ever forced to go to BY or any Jewish school.
So this whole notion of BY is brainwashing you is ridiculous. If their Kollel and e/o a teacher views bother you -don’t step foot in the school.
As opposed to college, me and e/o else I know went to get a career, not to hear s/o spout their crazy views. Once upon a time this country was somewhat normal -you could just get a degree by just studying the subject material and then you could get a job. Then came along colleges and said you must be well rounded and threw in other things like English. I’m not even talking about the ones who make you take all these left, liberal courses which are mostly against the Torah. If I have to take English, I don’t need to be subjected only to readings that surround Woman’s lib.
If it wouldn’t be for this college exposure, the left wouldn’t have any influence in this country!
SaysMe -“Ibuprofen or muscle relaxants don’t seem to help me much for this kind of pain. Any ideas for me?”
Try Aleve – 2 pills first 12 hrs & 1 the second 12 hrs & then 1 every 12 hrs.
Or try increasing the IB (Advil) you can take upto 3-4 pills every 6 hrs.
sm29 -“While medicine can sometimes help with ADD and ADHD, there are drawbacks. I read somewhere that these types of medicines can have a negative side effects both mentally and physically. One article I read mentioned that while the side effects go away, people might become use to the drug and it’s not effective anymore. But if they go off it, the symptoms come back.”
Nothing you wrote applies only to ADHD drugs -this happens with every drug. But science still believes the benefits of Meds outweigh any risks involved.
“I feel that it’s much better to solve the problem. We need to look at the child needs. It could be better nutrition, more exercise, better sleep, etc. Plus, behavioral therapy. This way we help the child both now and in the long run, without negative side effects”
What you don’t seem to recognize is that everything you mentioned except therapy doesn’t solve the problem. And in many cases the therapy will Not be effective unless the kid is on Meds.
Vogue -“My mom said that. Like you get asked questions on tests like what color tie the professor was wearing on the first day of class as a part of the final exam.”
I’ve been in a few colleges. The only time they ask random questions is to give students freebees (free points). If noone could answer these questions and the teacher used these questions to hurt student grades -this teacher would be history. If the administration wouldn’t fire him/her, even if he/she did it even to one student they would have a big lawsuit on their hands besides the Gov. getting involved.
Vogue -“And then they get graded on tests based on random information.”
And which college did you go to? I’d like to know because I never heard of a multiple choice exam in English – it’s all essays. The grade is almost all subjective, not objective.
writersoul -“But either way, if you argue that people who don’t want to be brainwashed in BYs just won’t end up brainwashed, then why can’t you say the same about college?”
You can.
“If it’s all about what kind of an education you’re expecting, then that’s what YU was made for (or Sarah Schenirer or TTI, if you prefer). The key is not to do something unless you have a reasonable idea of what might or might not result.”
The problem with college brainwashing is it’s dishonest and immoral. The fact that you need a well rounded education for a degree is why they insist on courses like English. But this is not needed for the Major -if it’s a science major. But now to subject you to skewed courses based on s/o’s opinion is disgusting. It doesn’t matter if this opinion is lib left which I disagree with or even if it’s an opinion I agree with, like Conservative views -this should not be part of the course.